M1 Garand Talk The M1 Garand - General Posting

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Old 03-09-2012, 08:16   #1
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Hollywood or Real

I've been re-watching the "Band of Brothers" dvd's and just got done with epispode 4. I didn't notice it the first time through because I was caught up with the story line but there is some "wierd" stuff there:

1. Scene where soldier is unloading his Garand one bullet at a time.
2. Most Garands have the "X" slotted gas port vs. the straight slot.
3. Firing a grenade from the shoulder with almost no recoil.
4. Garands jamming at the worst possible time.

I can understand (and excuse) Hollywood for all but the last one. I've never heard or read of GI's complaining aout the reliability of the Garand - maybe "operator error" but not the rifle.
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Old 03-09-2012, 10:03   #2
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Originally Posted by aimhigh View Post
I've been re-watching the "Band of Brothers" dvd's and just got done with epispode 4. I didn't notice it the first time through because I was caught up with the story line but there is some "wierd" stuff there:

1. Scene where soldier is unloading his Garand one bullet at a time.
2. Most Garands have the "X" slotted gas port vs. the straight slot.
3. Firing a grenade from the shoulder with almost no recoil.
4. Garands jamming at the worst possible time.

I can understand (and excuse) Hollywood for all but the last one. I've never heard or read of GI's complaining aout the reliability of the Garand - maybe "operator error" but not the rifle.

the Garand was new, it required different lube procedures than the Springfield 03' that it replaced.
and GIs were throwing hundreds of rounds out there all day every day, and I'm pretty sure that powders back then were not nearly as clean burning as they are today.
it also could have been a bad round (we were cranking them out at a frighting pace, I'm sure duds and squibs accidently made it out into the field.
since combat on a battle field is not a "day at the range" where you can stop, take a break and clean your rifle in the middle of a session. I could see ANY rifle eventually having a jam or two...
and despite the action's reputation of being resistant to fouling and debris -it is a semi auto, and isn't "invincible"
after all what does Murphy say?

"If something can go wrong, it will go wrong... and at the worst possible moment"

so I'd say having a soldier with a jammed Garand in a film is actually "anti Hollywood" and pretty realistic.
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Old 03-09-2012, 11:37   #3
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After 24 years of active duty (retired 15 years ago) I am VERY familier with Murpy's Laws of Combat. But it's because of my expeience I look at things like this with a critical eye.

Assuming the Garand was with with these guys through two years of training (events in the movie are from 1944 and the Garand was in full rate production since 1941), they would be very familier with cleaning, lubing, FTF, etc.

What iritates me is that that the movie shows M-1 Carbines and Thompsons firing with out a hitch. However, it's the Garand that somehow lets the GI down at a crucial time. My father carried a Garand across Europe in WWII with the 89th ID. He had his chance to take any "battlefied" pick up he could, but stayed with the Garand because it was accurate, hard-hitting, and reliable.

Again, Maybe I'm just beig oversensitive or over critical with the movie.
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:21   #4
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I was actually Talking with a CMD SGT MJR RET, who had said that a buddy of his in Vietnam carried a garand, and was in an all day fire fight with it that led into the night hours. The next day, he started to notice, without any cleaning, that he couldn't hit anything with it. But it never failed to fire, or feed. As soon as he had the golden opportunity, he turned it in for an overhaul or replacement, and the who ever was in charge of that proceedure told him, that he had never seen one shot out like that in a day. So he took the guy over to where he was sitting in his fox-hole. He said you se all that spent ammo and enblocks laying all over the place here? "this was just me and my Garand in this hole" Wow, no wonder, the guy said, no wonder at all. I didn't see any pics, I only heard the story, and it was just a story that a vet told me, about a guy he knew, but he said there was definately reason to believe he shot it out, after seeing all that spent ammo in that one spot come out of one rifle, that fired all day and into the night without stopping for anything but reloading. The conclusion was that he ruined the barrel and they solved the problem either by replacement rifle, or repair, I don't remember which. But keep in mind, under those conditions, it never failed to fire, or failed to feed, it just became a spray and pray rifle after all that shooting. "At least thats what he said"... anyway, thought I would pass that on.
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Old 11-14-2012, 17:52   #5
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Originally Posted by HILLBILLY-06 View Post
I was actually Talking with a CMD SGT MJR RET, who had said that a buddy of his in Vietnam carried a garand, and was in an all day fire fight with it that led into the night hours. The next day, he started to notice, without any cleaning, that he couldn't hit anything with it. But it never failed to fire, or feed. As soon as he had the golden opportunity, he turned it in for an overhaul or replacement, and the who ever was in charge of that proceedure told him, that he had never seen one shot out like that in a day. So he took the guy over to where he was sitting in his fox-hole. He said you se all that spent ammo and enblocks laying all over the place here? "this was just me and my Garand in this hole" Wow, no wonder, the guy said, no wonder at all. I didn't see any pics, I only heard the story, and it was just a story that a vet told me, about a guy he knew, but he said there was definately reason to believe he shot it out, after seeing all that spent ammo in that one spot come out of one rifle, that fired all day and into the night without stopping for anything but reloading. The conclusion was that he ruined the barrel and they solved the problem either by replacement rifle, or repair, I don't remember which. But keep in mind, under those conditions, it never failed to fire, or failed to feed, it just became a spray and pray rifle after all that shooting. "At least thats what he said"... anyway, thought I would pass that on.
Former neighbor did 2 tours in Korea as a engineer (first before the conflict started), he stated that he took his Garand to the armorer because he could no longer hit anything with it, the armorer replaced the barrel, after noting that a 30cal bullet dropped into the chamber would fall out the muzzle.
He also mentioned that when guarding prisoners that dropping a flying pheasant with his Garand was a very effective technique to keep the prisoners from trying to escape.
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Old 11-15-2012, 20:51   #6
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I'm pretty sure that through both world wars the US and pretty much everybody else used corrosive ammo(corrosive power/primers). It wasnt til after the Korean war that we switched to non corrosive ammo. Those guns in WW2 were not broken down and completely cleaned repeatedly daily like todays guns are. They'd often go a long time without a complete maintenance and cleaning, lubing. Its probably just a matter of time before some guns got enough residue in them that they might have had a cycling issue, but not often. You gotta give credit where credit is due... Those guns held up extremely well considering the circumstances, the dirtier ammo and the lack of maintenance and the abuse. I honestly dont think our modern infantry weapon could function that well under those circumstances.

I also just saw an episode of band Of brothers recently and one of the lower ranking officers, sergeant I think had an M1 Carbine sling over his shoulder right before going on a mission behind enemy lines that would surely end in a firefight. I didnt think lower ranking, fighting infantry or even paratroops would be carrying the M1 Carbine.
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Old 11-15-2012, 21:25   #7
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Originally Posted by GoldCoast View Post
I also just saw an episode of band Of brothers recently and one of the lower ranking officers, sergeant I think had an M1 Carbine sling over his shoulder right before going on a mission behind enemy lines that would surely end in a firefight. I didnt think lower ranking, fighting infantry or even paratroops would be carrying the M1 Carbine.
Sure they did, Gold. The M1 carbine (and later the M2) was issued to lots of lower-ranking troops, mainly those in support roles and/or heavy weapons crewmen. In the early '60s, some of our mortar guys had carbines (or pistols)while the ammo bearers had Garands. When we switched to M14s in late '61 or early '62, those armed with Garands or carbines got full-sized M14s. Gunners kept their pistols. As I recall, lieutenants and captains had their pistols traded for M14 initially. Withing a year or two, the MTOEs had them back with pistols. The original rational for the M1 carbine was to replace pistols, but that never really stuck.

Last edited by swansonk; 11-18-2012 at 19:04. Reason: Typo correction
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:50   #8
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How about the Ranger Southpaw?

Pvt. Jackson- played by actor Barry Pepper- he used three different scopes on his 1903-A3 sniper modified BA rifle- shot in the rain, etc. What surprised me about the movie was the fact that they carried two weapons among them not with a common ammo- the Thompson, and the big gruff sergeant with a M-1 carbine. Also, why lug a BAR- carry a Garand and more ammo- for a patrol, pass up the BAR- keep it to cover the flanks of an established position--I am referring to the Tom Hanks-Steven Spielberg movie about Pvt. Joseph Ryan, 101st Airborne- PIR number not known, my guess, 504th??
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:37   #9
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I have shot hundreds of rounds of surplus 30.06 mil rounds and the powder is no different than we get today. Most of the bores were damaged by the lack of cleaning, the primers were chlorate based and that turned into a salt when the rounds were fired and that took moisture out of the air and caused rust.
In 50 or 53 depending on manufacture all 30.06 was changed to noncorrosive priming.
I have some ww II issued ammo that was repacked and issued to guard troops in the early 60s, it is in an mg belt,linked.
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Old 01-24-2013, 17:54   #10
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Originally Posted by Rovie Waid View Post
Pvt. Jackson- played by actor Barry Pepper- he used three different scopes on his 1903-A3 sniper modified BA rifle- shot in the rain, etc. What surprised me about the movie was the fact that they carried two weapons among them not with a common ammo- the Thompson, and the big gruff sergeant with a M-1 carbine. Also, why lug a BAR- carry a Garand and more ammo- for a patrol, pass up the BAR- keep it to cover the flanks of an established position--I am referring to the Tom Hanks-Steven Spielberg movie about Pvt. Joseph Ryan, 101st Airborne- PIR number not known, my guess, 504th??

because it's more portable than an air cooled browning, which is moresuited for protecting a fixed position. and having a full auto LMG with a 20 round detachable box mag is a darned good thing to have around when there are pissed off Nazis about and every other one has an damned MP40 it's about laying down a surpressive fire, keeping heads down and giving the Garand guys a chance to move up or pick off the Jerries that get brave and pop their heads up. The BAR was designed as a squad level Automatic weapon from the get go -that was what it was for. the air and water cooled brownings were for fixed position use.
I'm not saying that the Garand wasn't a great weapon - it was a war winner for sure...but to put it in perspective... would you ask "why do some of our guys currently lug around a SAW when you could just carry a 16 with more ammo?"
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Old 02-12-2013, 00:10   #11
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.45 was common pistol.
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