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Old 11-11-2008, 11:34   #1
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can garand's be converted to accept detachable mag's

Has anyone here heard of a conversion that would allow the use of detachable mag's?
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Old 11-11-2008, 13:09   #2
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Originally Posted by wasntme View Post
Has anyone here heard of a conversion that would allow the use of detachable mag's?
See the Fulton Armory FAQ Page, Garand Section. The box-magazine Garand is called the "M14."

Regards,

Walt
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Old 11-11-2008, 13:20   #3
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I would have said no until I saw this...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=115347222
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Old 11-11-2008, 14:56   #4
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M1 Garrand with box magazines

In the mid-1960's, there was a gunsmith in Napa, CA who built M1 Garrands fitted with 20-round BAR magazines. He has since passed.
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Old 11-11-2008, 19:28   #5
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Oh, yes, it's been done, sure. I have one:





The fellow who did these has passed on. The one in the picture in the previous post manages to combine the worst of both worlds, in that it has a short barrel along with a mag conversion. "Tanker," or more properly, T26, Garands are a real hit-and-miss (pun intended) in the function department. We (Fulton Armory) now offer them, but we have the resources to get the op rod geometry right.

When Beretta did the short Garand they did it right. The gas cylinder is lower under the barrel, allowing the op rod to be straight as an arrow. I used a Beretta front end to create a short Garand that works every time "



Notice how the op rod comes straight back.

Most of these aftermarket box magazine Garands emulated the BM 59, when they didn't actually use BM 59 parts! The problem with a real BM 59 is not the cost so much as the use of BM 59 magazines, which are not interchangable with M14 magazines.



For those bound 'n determined, SARCO has BM 59E kits (intended to convert M1s), with the receiver blueprints.

Enjoy.

Regards,

Walt

PS The BAR mag conversion is really, really not a good idea, because even John Garand couldn't get the Garand to cycle with the BAR mag .
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Old 11-11-2008, 20:03   #6
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Eight rounds of 30-06 is more than enough . I heard from a co-worker about a garand that shot 308's from a mag, and thought for sure he was talking about an m-14, maybe not? Thanks gentlemen, for shedding some light on the subject.
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Old 01-01-2009, 07:26   #7
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i have one a Tanker whit m14 magazine.cal 308 built in germany.
here is the link to the builder of my Tanker
http://www.waffen-werle.de/Garand/garand.html

and a link to one in the US that can do it
http://www.warbirdscustomguns.com/M1%20Garand.htm


Originally Posted by wasntme View Post
Has anyone here heard of a conversion that would allow the use of detachable mag's?
Attached Thumbnails
can garand's be converted to accept detachable mag's-garand-magazine-m14.jpg   can garand's be converted to accept detachable mag's-garand-magazine-m14-2.jpg   can garand's be converted to accept detachable mag's-garand-tanker-m14-magazine.jpg   can garand's be converted to accept detachable mag's-garand-tanker-2.jpg  

Last edited by Jenssweden; 01-01-2009 at 07:38. Reason: edit some links
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Old 01-02-2009, 20:27   #8
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Very nice ! Jenssweden , you are a lucky man .
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Old 01-17-2009, 02:15   #9
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Thank u
Originally Posted by wasntme View Post
Very nice ! Jenssweden , you are a lucky man .
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Old 02-26-2011, 09:23   #10
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If a "Garand" shoots a 7.62 out of a M14 magazine, it's not a "Garand", it's a .308 Garand.
To be a TRUE GARAND it should shoot a 30-06 round. Likewise to be a true Garand, is should function like a Garand. Case in point, the Shufflin conversion uses a M14 mag, and the magazine is what holds the bolt open when the magazine is empty. Remove the magazin, and most likely the bolt closes, which when inserting a charged magazine requires cycling the bolt to chamber a new round.

To function like a Garand using a 30-06 MAGAZINE: insert a charged magazine (bolt either open or closed), release the bolt or cyle the bolt to chamber a round. Fire the rounds in the magazine until the magazine is empty, the bolt is retained in the open position by something other than the magazine. Insert a charged magazine and release the bolt to chamber a round. Repeat as necessary.

So to convert an M1 Garand to magazine fed M1 Garand, it should include all these features, not just some.

Is it possible to do this? Yes.
Is it possible to do this without making major irreverable changes to the receiver? Yes.
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Old 02-26-2011, 09:53   #11
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Originally Posted by ardy View Post
If a "Garand" shoots a 7.62 out of a M14 magazine, it's not a "Garand", it's a .308 Garand.
To be a TRUE GARAND it should shoot a 30-06 round. Likewise to be a true Garand, is should function like a Garand. Case in point, the Shufflin conversion uses a M14 mag, and the magazine is what holds the bolt open when the magazine is empty. Remove the magazin, and most likely the bolt closes, which when inserting a charged magazine requires cycling the bolt to chamber a new round.

To function like a Garand using a 30-06 MAGAZINE: insert a charged magazine (bolt either open or closed), release the bolt or cyle the bolt to chamber a round. Fire the rounds in the magazine until the magazine is empty, the bolt is retained in the open position by something other than the magazine. Insert a charged magazine and release the bolt to chamber a round. Repeat as necessary.

So to convert an M1 Garand to magazine fed M1 Garand, it should include all these features, not just some.

Is it possible to do this? Yes.
Is it possible to do this without making major irreverable changes to the receiver? Yes.
Keep in mind that John Garand's T20 strayed from your criteria. It's a little-known fact that not only is there a direct evolution from the M1 to the M14 through the T20 and T44 (skipping over a couple of independent "T's"), but that John Garand worked with Mathewson Tool to complete the M14's development. Garand took the T44 across the finish line when he adapted the magazine from his T31 to the T44, which made possible shortening the T20 receivers that were part of all the preceding prototypes (and the T44, of course) to the shorter-than-the-Garand M14 receiver.

Hence, submit that the M14 is also a "Garand."

Regards,

Walt
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Old 02-26-2011, 17:55   #12
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Garand conversion, not modification

Sorry Walt, I was expressing an opinion, not historical facts. It would be possible to say that anything John Garand helped to design could be called a "Garand", but maybe that's stretching the definition a little thin.

The point that I was trying to make is that all the cntemporary conversions I am aware of use a M14 magazine (308) and are called a garand conversion to magazine. This is a slight misnomer, why don't they call it a M1 to M14 conversion, it makes almost as much sense.

In my opioion, iff someone is going to convert an M1 to a magazine feed, then it should incorporate the functions I previously outlined. Additionally, if anything is done that would prevent it from being returned to its original function without major rework, then it would be a modification, not a conversion.

How many of the so called conversions fire the 30-06 round? I know of one only (probably because I haven't found any others that do).

I have been trying for years to get a machinist to make a centerline scope base to my specifications, so I can complete my 20 round 30-06 magazine conversion, that incorporates all the functions I have mentioned. I finally found one that doesn't think I'm nuts for wanting to have it made. We'll see if he gets it done.

Thanks for listening.
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Old 02-26-2011, 19:01   #13
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Originally Posted by ardy View Post
Sorry Walt, I was expressing an opinion, not historical facts. It would be possible to say that anything John Garand helped to design could be called a "Garand", but maybe that's stretching the definition a little thin.

The point that I was trying to make is that all the cntemporary conversions I am aware of use a M14 magazine (308) and are called a garand conversion to magazine. This is a slight misnomer, why don't they call it a M1 to M14 conversion, it makes almost as much sense.

In my opioion, iff someone is going to convert an M1 to a magazine feed, then it should incorporate the functions I previously outlined. Additionally, if anything is done that would prevent it from being returned to its original function without major rework, then it would be a modification, not a conversion.

How many of the so called conversions fire the 30-06 round? I know of one only (probably because I haven't found any others that do).

I have been trying for years to get a machinist to make a centerline scope base to my specifications, so I can complete my 20 round 30-06 magazine conversion, that incorporates all the functions I have mentioned. I finally found one that doesn't think I'm nuts for wanting to have it made. We'll see if he gets it done.

Thanks for listening.
Sounds like a great project, keep me in touch! A caveat: Garand had difficulty with cycle times and feeding with his T20 box magazine Garand-type rifle, which necessitated a half-inch longer receiver heel to keep the bolt away from the magazine long enough for a cartridge to be pushed up in front of the bolt face. He was using BAR mags, and just couldn't get them to work cycle-wise. Eventually Garand created his own mag.

If I recall correctly, Bland in MD, who made my "Garand to M14 conversion," offered a .30-'06 box mag conversion using BAR magazines. He stopped offering it because it frankly didn't work out...or so I was led to understand at the time. Here's my M14 magazine conversion, which I belive to have been done by Bland:


Best regards,

Walt
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Old 03-18-2011, 23:15   #14
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Ed Bland was from Richmond, VA. Had a couple of his .308 Garand conversions which were excellent rifles, one with 19 inch barrrel which fit into an M14 stock and a full length one. He also made Tanker style conversions too.

Ed passed away in 2000. He was an excellent gunsmith, a Vietnam Veteran and a good man, may he rest in peace.
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Old 04-16-2011, 08:55   #15
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Walt (or anyone else, for that matter)

Please explain why one would want to convert an M1 to magazine feed. I would imagine it would destroy most of the feel of an M1, which I happen to consider it's finest feature. Hanging a 20 rnd mag between the hands changes the balance - so you get basically an M14. In as much as an M1 has issues that were addressed in the M14 (such as the op rod you alluded to, plus gas cylinder), ?why not simply get an M14. I realize it's a short action, so it won't shoot .30-'06, but is that really that important - or is this purely a personal issue.

?Aside from the "one off" concept, is there really any advantage to a magazine fed M1 over an M14.
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