Im interested in this caliber, but dont know much about it.
Opinions?
~D
Well, it's been around since about 1873 and is probably more popular now than ever. It can be a pleasure or a real pain to shoot depending on what tickles your fancy or what your huntin. If you like leverguns, most folks feel the later Win.86s are stouter than the Marlin 1895s but unless your tryin to max out your loads, the Marlins just fine and alot cheaper. The heavy loads aren't really that much fun!
If your lookin for a single shot, H&R is likely the least expensive and you can go sky high from there.
My Shiloh likes 40grs. of H4895 and 405gr. Magnus cast bullets REAL well.
If you can find some of the Paul A. Matthews books you should be able to gather quite a bit of info. He seemed to like the 45-70.
Handloading offers quite a variety of possibilities.
Ah, my favorite caliber. It's been around since 1873 and was the brass cartridge the US military ever adopted. I reload for it and have at the present 5 rifles and one pistol. The majority of factory loads are for the old "Trapdoor" from 1873. That is at 28,00 CUP (Copper Units of Pressure). Very low power and easy on the shoulder. Up to about about 1700 FPS (Feet Per Second) and 2600 Ft/Lbs (Foot Pounds) of energy at the muzzle. I like to load Black Powder cartridges for My Trapdoor. Which is 70 grains of Black Powder under a 500 grain lead bullet.
Then there are the Marlin levergun level loads. Up to 40,000 CUP. That's 2100 FPS and better than 3500 Ft/Lbs at the muzzle. These can thump you pretty good.
Then we have the big boys. The Ruger #1, BLRs and NEF loads . Muzzle velocities to 2500 FPS and energy in the 4000 Ft/Lbs range. This is right next door to the 458 Winchester Magnum loads.
and
I also shoot a pistol in 45/70. A Contender Super 14. I prefer Trapdoor loads or my hunting load in it. The hunting load is a 405 grain bullet over 40 grains of H-4198 for 1600 FPS at the muzzle of my 1895 and 1400 FPS from the Contender.
The 45/70 Government is more fun than any other cartridge in my opinion.
.......................... Bear 45/70 do you have a few recipes you could share? Loud ones?
The regular load I use for normal shooting and hunting is:
405 LFN, .059" (by Aardvark in Poulsbo, Washington)
40 grains of H-4198
Magnum Rifle primer (Large) (I think it helps with more consistence powder ignition)
Lee Factory Crimp Die
Brass , ( I use Federal, R&P and Winchester)
All of these different brass give me right around 1600 fps out of my 22 inch barrels. This is an intermediate load. It is very accurate with a both my Micro-groove barrel and standard rifling in my Ruger and Contender. I also has a record of 1 shot stops on deer. Also all shots were pass through, so no bullet recoveries.
For the sadomasochist in the crowd that have a Mauser or a Ruger there is the "I see GOD! load".
DO NOT SHOOT THIS IN ANYTHING EXCEPT RUGER, H&R AND MAUSER ACTIONS!!!!!!!
56.0 grs of H-4198
Magnum Rifle Primer
Lee Factory Crimp Die
2300 fps out of a 22" barrel and the recoil is "stout" (well, stout if you are used to being run over by tanks). DO NOT SHOOT THIS IN ANYTHING EXCEPT RUGER, H&R AND MAUSER ACTIONS!!!!!!!
The there is my Contender Super 14, shoot it all day load.
300 LTC (Aardvark again)
28 grs. H-4198 (are beginning to see a pattern here?)
Magnum Primer (the ignition thing and the none use of a filler)
Lee Factory Crimp Die (always, on all loads)
1000 fps out of the 14" Contender and around 1200 from the rifles. This is the 22LR load for you 45/70.
I've read some Sun Tzu. the Ancient Art of War is difficult to get through, but a pretty cool work.
I like how Genghis dealt with the aggressive tendencies of the more radical part of the Muslim world in the 1200s. I wish our leaders would take something from his lead. That's what the sig line is about.
I took out my GG today, and it kicked less than I expected. My pump 12ga Benelli with 3 inch magnum slugs is much-much worse. I was shooting 325gr Hornady LeverEvolution loads.
I got the iron sights fairly well centered at 50 yards. I'll likely look for a small 1x to 4x scope for it. I could not muster a group from the iron sights worth talking about. I'll blame the new unaltered factory trigger... It had some take up, and a sluggish break. It needs to be shot a few hundred times, I think...
And I'm gonna drop a few bucks with Garrett Cartridges. The 540gr Hammerhead load has my name on it. I was reading an article yesterday that said the author shot completely through a Cape Buffalo with that load. And it also showed a picture of a bull rhino that Vince Lupo flat-lined with one shot with the same load. Sounds interesting...
I've had quite a few 45/70's over the years and done plenty of load development. I foolishly sold my last one last year due to component costs. It is one of the most versitile cartriges I've owned (along with 30/06) I've made cowboy loads with trailboss that had hardly any recoil and as Bear stated, if you want it to, it can be a handful. I like Marlin 1895 and Ruger No.1.
I was never a fan of anything lever action. . . . . . until my birthday a few years ago. . . .my old lady got me a special edition Marlin Black/Grey/Green Laminate Stainless Guide Gun with my college football number (37) as the serial number!! Wow! What a powerful round! And to think this used to be the standard round for the US Mil? Downright scary! The round looks like an artillery shell!
From an ad or brochure I read some time ago: (". . . .and is quite capable of taking any KNOWN big game in the Western Hemisphere. . . .")
I was never a fan of anything lever action. . . . . . until my birthday a few years ago. . . .my old lady got me a special edition Marlin Black/Grey/Green Laminate Stainless Guide Gun with my college football number (37) as the serial number!! Wow! What a powerful round! And to think this used to be the standard round for the US Mil? Downright scary! The round looks like an artillery shell!
From an ad or brochure I read some time ago: (". . . .and is quite capable of taking any KNOWN big game in the Western Hemisphere. . . .")
I like that "KNOWN" quantifier!
I imagine it would take down any 'unknown' game as well. Such as a Dinosaur, or BIGFOOT! Now I KNOW I want a rifle in 45/70!
I've got an H&R Buffalo Classic in 45.70. It has a crescent buttplate that can be mean on the shoulder. I pulled the buttplate and filled the butt with lead birdshot. It really helps absorb the recoil. My 336 Marlin is much more uncomfortable to shoot.
If you are looking for more comfortable to shoot the 45/70 Government in, then you need a Ruger #1 with this style of recoil pad or a Limbsaver. I have 45/70 loads from super wimpy, 300 grain bullets at 1000 fps up to 405 grain bullets at 2100 fps and of course the 350 grain bullets at 2300 fps. The 350 at 2300 fps load is over 4100 foot/pounds of energy at the muzzle. Oh and you can shoot the Ruger #1 loads in the H&R Buffalo Classic, steel butt plate and all ( that is if you like bruising yourself a lot.
My Ruger #1S.
Here is my Buffalo Classic.
My Marlin 1895SS.
My H&R Replica Springfield 1873 "Trapdoor".
Then of course my original Springfield Model 1873 "Trapdoor" made in 1889.
Oh and here is my 45/70 trio. My #1, my Marlin 1895 and my Thompson Contender Super 14 in 45/70 Government.
I experimented with some big boomers this morning. 525 grain Beartooth Bullets hardcast bullets loaded with 42 grains of IMR 4198. Beartooth calls that worth a little over 1500fps from a guide gun. It was loud and hard. We were popping gongs out to 200 yards with it.
One customer reported a through and through on a grown Bison (both shoulders), with less than a full charge.
I've got guide gun and I love it. The Big 5 in Africa have been taken with it. It's good for anything from deer to cape buffalo (as long as the shooter is up to the task and the right load/bullet is used) and at least MY guide gun is a tack driver. 1" groups at 100 yds all day long with a Burris 2X fixed on it. I've heard similar reports from many others. I bought my dad one and his is a tack driver as well. You can't go wrong with one and for the price it's probably the best deal in a big bore going.
I imagine it would take down any 'unknown' game as well. Such as a Dinosaur, or BIGFOOT! Now I KNOW I want a rifle in 45/70!
I wouldn't doubt it. There is a story from africa that has been floating around for a long time about the 45-70.
It seems that someone shot a Cape Buffalo and the bullet went through the first one and killed a second. He got TWO with one shot! I don't know any more detail than that as far as the load he was using but that is some serious penetration.
I've also heard of the 45-70 going through a Cape Buffalo lengthwise. In a Ruger #1 it can be loaded up almost to .458 Win Mag levels. I'll let someone else shoot that though. Not for me. My Guide Gun when loaded up is about ALL I can take.
I picked up a Guide Gun for myself yesterday. I'm going to start out with the Hornady 325s, and then look for something to make my shoulder hurt.
If a rogue Rhino comes to my house looking for trouble, I want to be ready.
Bear 45/70 do you have a few recipes you could share? Loud ones?
If you like pain you have the right cartridge and rifle for it. Unless you are VERY recoil insensitive make sure you have some pain killers for the headache handy. I shot 20 rounds of 300gn Remingtons at 2350 fps through a Marlin 45-70 with a steel crescent buttplate on it one day. It was painful when I was done. The Guide gun is much better but with the loads you can load up for it it CAN rock your world.
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