Lever Action Talk Lever Action firearms of all makes

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Old 05-03-2010, 12:22   #101
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Old is New Again, as the saying goes.

This subject is, of course, nothing new. Lever-actions were the first real "tactical" (read that as reliable, repeating actions) on the Western frontier and long a part of Peace Officer weaponry. No, they aren't very "modern" like a semi-auto, but as noted, not every person or even Department can afford to buy/equip w/ ARs or even Mini-14/30s or perhaps want to avoid the "stigma" of an "Assault-Rifle" in their armory. I've seen a couple of articles in S.W.A.T. Magazine about the logistical progression of using a Lever-action for police work.

Several years ago, when the VA State Police announced they were going to upgrade with some M4 .223s, I stopped and wondered, why? Outside of armor-piercing 5.56 NATO round, the .30-30 WCF made more sense to me for a car gun. Nope, don't hold a quick-replacing 20/30-rd magazine, but is better for roadblock work than the .223 I figured. A .30-30 cost less than the M4, more ammo could have been bought and trained with for the same money. I even discussed it with a gunsmith who was beadblasting a WV Police Officer's .375 H&H custom rifle he was working on (I had said that I didn't know their were Elephants in West Virginia ) but that would make a heck of a roadblock gun. It was just a thought, though.
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Old 05-03-2010, 12:24   #102
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Raccoon

Bill, I love that picture of the raccoon!
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Old 05-15-2010, 17:13   #103
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it was Jeff Cooper who first suggested the idea of the 'tactical' lever-action: chambered in .357 or .44 magnum, for use as a home defense weapon for folks who lived in places where semi-autos weren't legal. For those folks, it was the best compromise available: adequately powerful round, moderately large capacity, fairly fast reload... but it was a compromise...

If you define 'tactical' in terms of combat/defense, surely there are better rifles out there: more powerful, higher capacity, faster reload, more suitable for mounting lights, lasers, etc...

Not that you can't get the job done with a lever-action; but in terms of what's the best rifle for the job in a combat/self-defense situation, a lever-action is not going to be anyone's first choice... is it?

Compared to say, a Mini-14 or an M-14?

PS--- I like lever actions.... I have a Winchester M-94 Trapper in .44 mag with ghost-ring sight, buttstock sleeve for extra rounds, it's a sweet weapon, lots of fun to shoot... but in terms of tactical utility, no comparison to my Mini-14 IMHO...

Last edited by LittleBill; 05-15-2010 at 17:24.
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Old 05-16-2010, 17:07   #104
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"Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it was Jeff Cooper who first suggested the idea of the 'tactical' lever-action: chambered in .357 or .44 magnum, for use as a home defense weapon for folks who lived in places where semi-autos weren't legal. For those folks, it was the best compromise available: adequately powerful round, moderately large capacity, fairly fast reload... but it was a compromise..."


I think that it is best associated with Jeff Cooper (re-)advocating them as a "Defensive Carbine" - "Practical Defensive Carbines", Jeff Cooper 1993 Guns & Ammo Annual, pp. 80-91. (Likely the article appeared in an issue of Guns & Ammo, but I have mine in the Annual. It was from that I first heard of the term "Brooklyn Special" and "Kansas City Special" being applied to the lever-actions. "Brooklyn Special" was a "client" who come from, DUH, with a Model 94 in .30-30 WCF, and the "Kansas City Special" was a fellow using a pistol-caliber (.357/.44/.45) version.
Also in the annual Rick Hacker had one called "Home Defense. . .Victorian Style!" (pp.120-126) which discussed cap-and-ball revolvers, Single-action revolver, double-barrel shotgun and of course, Lever-actions like the Henry/1866/1873/1894s and how they are similiarly effective (to some extent) like in the 1800s.
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:15   #105
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Different people have different needs and incomes. I know that when I had the money for one gun- it was a 30 30 marlin with a short barrel. fair enough for home defense, compact enough to sit in the umbrella stand, good out to 150 yards, powerful enough for deer, and some say moose and elk (I think I might want 30-06 at that point). The only thing I might not use it for is small game or birds-ones I wanted to eat anyway I personally would say if you can only have one gun, that would be the one.

When started building a collection (hunting, home defense, SHTF, etc..) it wasnt the first gun I bought, but it was on the list. My new (to me) 30 30 Marlin came back from the shop last week and when I took it to the range, it was like an old friend. Nothing like shooting 1000's of rounds through a type of gun to make it comfortable to use.

The only thing would say is that I would prefer to be able to use Iron sites for a home defense gun- it is far easier (for me anyway) to follow a moving target with iron then glass. I would keep the barrel on the shorter side if you have to confront someone in a building, and i would keep it loaded when the door opens at 3am you cant just slap a mag in.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:54   #106
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Originally Posted by LittleBill View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it was Jeff Cooper who first suggested the idea of the 'tactical' lever-action: chambered in .357 or .44 magnum, for use as a home defense weapon for folks who lived in places where semi-autos weren't legal. For those folks, it was the best compromise available: adequately powerful round, moderately large capacity, fairly fast reload... but it was a compromise...

If you define 'tactical' in terms of combat/defense, surely there are better rifles out there: more powerful, higher capacity, faster reload, more suitable for mounting lights, lasers, etc...

Not that you can't get the job done with a lever-action; but in terms of what's the best rifle for the job in a combat/self-defense situation, a lever-action is not going to be anyone's first choice... is it?

Compared to say, a Mini-14 or an M-14?

PS--- I like lever actions.... I have a Winchester M-94 Trapper in .44 mag with ghost-ring sight, buttstock sleeve for extra rounds, it's a sweet weapon, lots of fun to shoot... but in terms of tactical utility, no comparison to my Mini-14 IMHO...
Good post. I absolutely love lever guns. No semi-auto rifle compares (with the possible exception of the Garand) in the fun factor category. A lever will never replace an AR or Mini in it's function as a HD weapon. But neither the AR nor the Mini will ever replace the history and heritage of (or the fondness in my heart for) an 1892/94 based lever gun.
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Old 07-02-2010, 05:36   #107
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My tactical lever setup.

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Old 07-02-2010, 05:41   #108
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I put an Aimpoint clone by Walther on my 94AE, I'll get pics up at some point. I need a new 45 Colt revolver, since I had to sell mine last year. I think a Redhawk would work nicely. Now if I could just get my AR upper sold, I'd have one in hand...

Jim
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:45   #109
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Old 08-25-2010, 08:26   #110
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Originally Posted by T191032 View Post
This subject is, of course, nothing new. Lever-actions were the first real "tactical" (read that as reliable, repeating actions) on the Western frontier and long a part of Peace Officer weaponry. No, they aren't very "modern" like a semi-auto, but as noted, not every person or even Department can afford to buy/equip w/ ARs or even Mini-14/30s or perhaps want to avoid the "stigma" of an "Assault-Rifle" in their armory. I've seen a couple of articles in S.W.A.T. Magazine about the logistical progression of using a Lever-action for police work.

Several years ago, when the VA State Police announced they were going to upgrade with some M4 .223s, I stopped and wondered, why? Outside of armor-piercing 5.56 NATO round, the .30-30 WCF made more sense to me for a car gun. Nope, don't hold a quick-replacing 20/30-rd magazine, but is better for roadblock work than the .223 I figured. A .30-30 cost less than the M4, more ammo could have been bought and trained with for the same money. I even discussed it with a gunsmith who was beadblasting a WV Police Officer's .375 H&H custom rifle he was working on (I had said that I didn't know their were Elephants in West Virginia ) but that would make a heck of a roadblock gun. It was just a thought, though.
VA State Police got the M4s for free from DHS, IIRC. Free training, too, thanks to Uncle Sam. The feds were giving them away for a while. That's part of why so many state and local agencies gave up their Mini-14s.

Jim
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Old 09-17-2010, 21:58   #111
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Originally Posted by Travis Morgan View Post
Who makes that Rhino liner looking stock?
I think thats just a synthetic marlin 336 stock you can buy at midway or brownells for $50 or $100 and they took a solder iron and used it to melt texture into the plastic
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Old 09-22-2010, 14:29   #112
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My tactical lever gun:

started with a standard 1895 "classic" with 22" barrel

Added the following:

1)Extended mag tube holds 7+1 now
2)Brockmans front sight w/ tritium post
3)XS lever rail
4) XS low weaver detacheable ghost ring
5) wild west guns heavy duty extracter
6) wild west guns heavy duty follower
7) Home made tri-rail mount using a LEAPERS tri rail mount for shotguns
8) Pachmayr F990 recoil pad
9) buttstock cartridge carrier
10) Millett zoom dot
11) GG&G standard aimpoint ring
12) Lever wrap
13) Beam shot tri-beam laser
14) Aurora sh-45 1000 lumen flashlight (has 3 brightness levels and a strobe and SOS)
15) Surefire red flashlight filter
16) La rue "index clips" rail covers


Thinking about upgrading to a big loop lever and getting a good tactical 3 point sling.

I have yet to sight it in, i have 2 boxes of buffalo bore 400 grain and 300 grain ammo
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Old 09-22-2010, 14:32   #113
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more pictures couldn't fit into one post
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Old 10-03-2010, 16:33   #114
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Thought I would post a pic of mine...




Marlin 1894CSS with 2-7X scope, Leaupold QD rings, XS Rail and sights, MPI stock, shell holder, and sling. Next to my trusty GP-100
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Old 10-03-2010, 18:56   #115
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nice dude, I put larue index clips on mine to protect the rail, only down fall is they may get in the way of your front sight, you can sand them down a little if thats the case. I only plan on using my irons for back up so it's no problem for me.
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Old 10-12-2010, 08:08   #116
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Mine for now.



Charlie
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Old 10-23-2010, 09:58   #117
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Originally Posted by Bear 45/70 View Post
All but the revolver are NFA weapons and the Feds are gonna charge you a couple of hundred each for the license to just own them.
This one is not: Rossi Ranch Hand .357Mag, .44 Mag or.45 Colt
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Old 10-30-2010, 19:01   #118
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tactical made easy

If you have dovetail sights get a bullseye rear sight.
I have one on my rossi .357 16" barrel, very fast targeting, faster than any M16 or M4 I've ever handled.

As far as semi auto vs lever guns, both have thier advantages and disadvantages. IMHO a pistol caliber lever gun is ideal for home defense, more so than an AR, mini-14, or AK. I wouldn't call it ideal for a GI weapon, but I dont think that was ever the posters intent here.

If I had to leave my house for good right now and could only take one gun it would probably be my levergun. My mini would be hard to leave behind, but I really do think it would have to be that way.
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Old 12-14-2010, 18:39   #119
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This is first Tac ti cal leveraction.
YouTube - The Rifleman
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Old 12-26-2010, 13:00   #120
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Originally Posted by T191032 View Post
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it was Jeff Cooper who first suggested the idea of the 'tactical' lever-action: chambered in .357 or .44 magnum, for use as a home defense weapon for folks who lived in places where semi-autos weren't legal. For those folks, it was the best compromise available: adequately powerful round, moderately large capacity, fairly fast reload... but it was a compromise..."
Cooper also pointed out that the 94's stock probably wouldn't stand up to a vigorously delivered buttstroke. One can argue that laminated wood or synthetic stocks may be better in that regard, I think the stock bolt is the weak link, rather than the stock material.

I'm currently restoring my grandfather's 94 to shootable condition. It's a 30-30 that he cut down for my grandmother to use, so it currently has an 11 1/2' LOP and a 20" barrel. That short stock makes it a beast to shoot, and the sights as currently configured have the rounds hitting 20" high at 50 yards. Once I've addressed those two issues I will have a fine general-purpose carbine. Imperfect as it is, it rests in the rack, the magazine full of 150 gr. JSPs. I'll just have to aim at the goblin's knees.
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Old 02-17-2011, 14:08   #121
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Originally Posted by MIK911 View Post
k this is what i was looking for, heres your real tactical lever guns...





i'm drooling right now
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Old 02-19-2012, 08:27   #122
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After 4 years I am very excited to see this thread still up and running, lost track of this website and am glad/ kind of surprised to see my account still active..
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Old 02-20-2012, 19:46   #123
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:52   #124
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my tactical lever is a win 94 timber carbine in .450 marlin incase someone gets smart stopping my x39 rounds outa my m30 tac with a vest then ill grab the sledge hammer firing 405 grain solids at 2300 fps
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Old 03-15-2012, 22:40   #125
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I don't know about a 'tactical" lever gun but I can see one as a perfect home defense choice. The 45-70 would work for just about anything since you can load it down to 45 colt levels or up to Cape Buffalo killing levels. I doubt a vest would stop a 45-70 properly loaded. It may stop the bullet from penetrating the vest but I doubt it would save the target. I read an article years ago about a cop that was shot with a 45-70. The bullet just carried the vest with it right into the body cavity. I don't think he lived even though the bullet didn't penetrate the vest.

As far as fire fights and such. I suspect that there are very few who actually have the training to survive a situation like that no matter what they are shooting. For the average person I'd say a lever gun is all they really need for the situations they may find themselves in. Even pretty bad ones.

If we end up some day with trained government hit squads coming for our guns then there is a problem but I don't see that happening in my life time and if it does I can only hold one gun at a time so I'd want one that will guarantee a dead target on the first shot even if he's behind a car, a brick wall or wearing a vest. In that case the 45-70 would probably fit the bill but you'd probably be out gunned so many times over you wouldn't last long no matter what you were packing.
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