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Old 10-19-2003, 19:14   #1
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Okay, leveractioneers, who can modify/make a John Wayne type large loop lever for a Winchester/Rossi 92 for a decent price?

I have a few '92 finger levers that I would like to have the "bow" made larger in the shape of the John Wayne lever. I know Rossi has a large loop lever but they are NOT the same.

Winchester has the John Wayne type large loop lever but they are for the 94.

The price here is $150.00 to have it done around the Phoenix area. Does anyone do it for quite a bit less?

I'm not interested in Wild West Guns 'cause they are expensive also.
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Old 10-19-2003, 21:25   #2
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Sorry, but I just gotta ask, Why???

Unless you have 36"+ arms you can't twirl it a la John Wayne and the large bow only slows down the cycle time during a firing string. Oh, it's also bad ergonomics since the hand has to cover more open space within the loop before the actual loop starts to move.

Before I spent the money on a mod like that, I think I'd get more fun out of spending the money on a nose job and breast implants.
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Old 10-23-2003, 06:30   #3
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20 INCH BARREL OR LESS SHOULDNT BE A PROBLEM PULLING A CHUCK CONNERS TWIRLL.how do you get one to fire every time you cock it a la chuck conners.
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Old 10-23-2003, 08:31   #4
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Scooper, there ya go confusin' hollywood with reality again. Yer gonna put yer eye out, kid.

The Rifleman's M92 had a finely adjusted screw mechanism screwed into the loop at the back of the trigger guard. The gun cocked on the downward sweep and as the lever closed and the gun returned to battery, the screw tripped the trigger.

In the opening footage of The Rifleman, the angle of the camera shot was such that the mechanism was not visible.

Now, you be careful -I don' wanna be seeing your name in this year's list of Darwin Awards.

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Old 10-24-2003, 21:03   #5
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There is NO danger in twirling and cocking the leveraction ala John Wayne/Chuck Connors. The action remains open until about 6-7 o'clock. At 6 o'clock the barrel is still open and facing the ground. Between 6-9 o'clock the action begins to close. At 9 'clock the action is closed and the barrel is facing away from the shooter.

The only problem is hitting yourself with the barrel when trying to learn how to twirl the rifle. So tying a handkerchief to the front sight will keep the front sight from cutting you if the barrel hits you. Also practice twirling over a bed or couch. This way if you drop it it won't hit the floor.

PRACTICE UNLOADED

I heard rumors of someone shooting themselves while twirling a leveraction. It is NOT possible. The stories are a total fabrication.

The problem with the Rifleman's rifle is that if the screw hits the trigger while twirling it the weapon will fire. It will fire in the direction you are looking. So your chance of hitting anything is minimal. Shooting off the hip is fun much like the John Wayne approach while advancing forward with the M16. You fired a three round burst every time your left foot hit the ground.

Here are some interesting sites where you see the Lucas McCain (Rifleman) leveraction. The first site gives you good close-up of the Legendary Rifle.

http://www.northforkproductions.net/flip.htm
http://www.northforkproductions.net/
http://members.tripod.com/~northfork/therifle.html
http://members.tripod.com/~northfork/index.html
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Old 10-25-2003, 07:13   #6
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On rare occasions there is a plus for hollywood confusion. Many years ago I swapped a Ruger Mini-14 for a Winchester Model 94 Wrangler (32 Win. Special) at a gunshow at the VFW. I fell in love with the little lever action. It has a engraved receiver with western scenes, has a 16" barrel and a large bow lever ala John Wayne. I practiced with it until I could twirl with both hands/arms.

Back to hollywood. I year ago I purchased another Wrangler to convert to 32-40 Winchester. I had it shipped to a pawn shop close to where I live.(They only charge 10 bucks for paperwork). While the paperwork is being processed I decided to give the lil' Wrangler a twirl. I asked them if it was Ok. The look on the faces of some of the "customers" and the sales person was astonishing.

Hollywood has given the John Wayne leveraction rifle and the Chuck Connors(Lucas McCain-The Rifleman) lever action rifle a supernatural mystique. The same goes for Josh Randall's "Mare's Leg" (Wanted: Dead or Alive).

A friend of mine carries his Winchester Model 94 Trapper in 357 Mag (which I installed a large bow lever) while on horse back. He has become very proficient in twirling his trusty lil' Trapper. He takes people out on horseback for weekend camping and such. On a couple of occasions he has had to pull his rifle. A little twirl and cock gave the "occasions" the idea and left.

GREAT psychological effect.
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Old 10-27-2003, 11:41   #7
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Originally posted by Yanqui@Oct 24 2003, 08:03 PM
There is NO danger in twirling and cocking the leveraction ala John Wayne/Chuck Connors. The action remains open until about 6-7 o'clock. At 6 o'clock the barrel is still open and facing the ground. Between 6-9 o'clock the action begins to close. At 9 'clock the action is closed and the barrel is facing away from the shooter.

The only problem is hitting yourself with the barrel when trying to learn how to twirl the rifle. So tying a handkerchief to the front sight will keep the front sight from cutting you if the barrel hits you. Also practice twirling over a bed or couch. This way if you drop it it won't hit the floor.

PRACTICE UNLOADED

I heard rumors of someone shooting themselves while twirling a leveraction. It is NOT possible. The stories are a total fabrication.

The problem with the Rifleman's rifle is that if the screw hits the trigger while twirling it the weapon will fire. It will fire in the direction you are looking. So your chance of hitting anything is minimal. Shooting off the hip is fun much like the John Wayne approach while advancing forward with the M16. You fired a three round burst every time your left foot hit the ground.

Here are some interesting sites where you see the Lucas McCain (Rifleman) leveraction. The first site gives you good close-up of the Legendary Rifle.

http://www.northforkproductions.net/flip.htm
http://www.northforkproductions.net/
http://members.tripod.com/~northfork/therifle.html
http://members.tripod.com/~northfork/index.html
Wow! A bit pricey dontcha think
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Old 10-28-2003, 19:38   #8
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Wow! A bit pricey dontcha think
Yep, that's one of the reasons I'm looking to have a lever fabricated like JW for a '92. I can't see forking out 1000 bucks or more for a John Wayne Commemorative in 32-40 Winchester when I can put a large loop lever on a '92. After all John Wayne carried a Winchester 1892 in Stagecoach, NOT a 94.

I had a gunsmith make a Lucas McCain large loop lever for 50 bucks years ago. He's not around anymore. So I'm looking for a new gunsmith.

I wonder if I can find an ol' blacksmith in Mexico to make one up for me? It's been years since I been there. Hmmmm!!! Maybe more than one.
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Old 10-28-2003, 19:58   #9
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Originally posted by Yanqui@Oct 28 2003, 07:38 PM
Wow! A bit pricey dontcha think*
Yep, that's one of the reasons I'm looking to have a lever fabricated like JW for a '92. I can't see forking out 1000 bucks or more for a John Wayne Commemorative in 32-40 Winchester when I can put a large loop lever on a '92. After all John Wayne carried a Winchester 1892 in Stagecoach, NOT a 94.

I had a gunsmith make a Lucas McCain large loop lever for 50 bucks years ago. He's not around anymore. So I'm looking for a new gunsmith.

I wonder if I can find an ol' blacksmith in Mexico to make one up for me? It's been years since I been there. Hmmmm!!! Maybe more than one.
Try Steve Young
http://www.stevesgunz.com/ServiceSG.htm
He specializes in old levers and copies.
He will be customizing a .454 Puma 92 for me
when the 16-inch models arrive, probably
in November.
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Old 10-30-2003, 14:02   #10
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Originally posted by Yanqui@Oct 24 2003, 08:03 PM
There is NO danger in twirling and cocking the leveraction ala John Wayne
Yeah, right.... then how come ol Rooster Cogburn hadda wear that eyepatch?

Yer gonna put yer eye out, kid.


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Old 10-30-2003, 19:01   #11
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Yeah, right.... then how come ol Rooster Cogburn hadda wear that eyepatch?
He was so drunk as usual that he couldn't find his mouth when he stuck the whisky bottle in his eye. Then the whiskey splashed into his eye and burned his eye. But because he was so drunk he passed out and he couldn't get up to wash his eye out. It's pretty simple.

If I remember correctly Lucas McCain never got drunk. He might have had a drink or two or not at all. And in the other John Wayne movies like El Dorado where he did not get drunk JW had no self inflicted injuries.

And besides I don't drink. B)

How many out there twirl their six shooter or have at least tried? Don't lie now.
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Old 11-01-2003, 06:19   #12
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Originally posted by dzrtram@Oct 28 2003, 07:58 PM
Try Steve Young
http://www.stevesgunz.com/ServiceSG.htm
He specializes in old levers and copies.
He will be customizing a .454 Puma 92 for me
when the 16-inch models arrive, probably
in November.

Thanks dzrtram,

I've checked out the website. I'll contact Steve and see what he can do for me.

I also have a Legacy Rossi 92 Puma in 44-40 with a 20" barrel that I want shortened to 16". I need to have that bolt safety removed and a saddle ring installed. I already have a Rossi 92 large loop lever for it.

I love the Winchester Wrangler/Trapper/ SRC look with a large loop lever.

A Marlin 1894 might look better with large loop lever like the JW or Rossi type. I've seen the ones from WWG and the bows are to small. A breakdown stainless Marlin 1894 with the correct size large loop lever might be kind of sporty/handy.

dzrtram, Just what type of work do you intend to have done on your 454 Casull if I may ask?
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Old 11-02-2003, 08:14   #13
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Originally posted by Yanqui+Nov 1 2003, 06:19 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Yanqui @ Nov 1 2003, 06:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-dzrtram@Oct 28 2003, 07:58 PM
Try Steve Young
http://www.stevesgunz.com/ServiceSG.htm
He specializes in old levers and copies.
He will be customizing a .454 Puma 92 for me
when the 16-inch models arrive, probably
in November.

Thanks dzrtram,

I've checked out the website. I'll contact Steve and see what he can do for me.

I also have a Legacy Rossi 92 Puma in 44-40 with a 20" barrel that I want shortened to 16". I need to have that bolt safety removed and a saddle ring installed. I already have a Rossi 92 large loop lever for it.

I love the Winchester Wrangler/Trapper/ SRC look with a large loop lever.

A Marlin 1894 might look better with large loop lever like the JW or Rossi type. I've seen the ones from WWG and the bows are to small. A breakdown stainless Marlin 1894 with the correct size large loop lever might be kind of sporty/handy.

dzrtram, Just what type of work do you intend to have done on your 454 Casull if I may ask? [/b][/quote]
Steve will order the 92 in 16 inch. He will then bed the stock at the "wrist" where the stock and receiver meet. Due to the pressure, the Rossis have been known to crack there. He will also do a trigger/action job. I haven't thought about a large loop lever. Thanks for the idea. Check out Brockman's lever.
http://www.brockmansrifles.com/ourrifles.asp
I don't know if it can be adapted or not.

I think you are getting into some money here, but if we both buy from Steve, and promise to spread the word, it might be worth it for him to do the R&D. Let's ask him. Tell him you are working with Ross who is waiting for the 16 inch. I think he will remember. Send me your real name at dzrtram@yahoo.com and I will also mention that we are both interested. Maybe anyone else that reads this would like to be included. Steve might become the "Wild West Guns of the Rossi"
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Old 11-02-2003, 08:27   #14
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Originally posted by Yanqui+Nov 1 2003, 06:19 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Yanqui @ Nov 1 2003, 06:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-dzrtram@Oct 28 2003, 07:58 PM
Try Steve Young
http://www.stevesgunz.com/ServiceSG.htm
He specializes in old levers and copies.
He will be customizing a .454 Puma 92 for me
when the 16-inch models arrive, probably
in November.

Thanks dzrtram,

I've checked out the website. I'll contact Steve and see what he can do for me.

I also have a Legacy Rossi 92 Puma in 44-40 with a 20" barrel that I want shortened to 16". I need to have that bolt safety removed and a saddle ring installed. I already have a Rossi 92 large loop lever for it.

I love the Winchester Wrangler/Trapper/ SRC look with a large loop lever.

A Marlin 1894 might look better with large loop lever like the JW or Rossi type. I've seen the ones from WWG and the bows are to small. A breakdown stainless Marlin 1894 with the correct size large loop lever might be kind of sporty/handy.

dzrtram, Just what type of work do you intend to have done on your 454 Casull if I may ask?[/b][/quote]
Yanqui,
I just re-read your post. Do you have a special reason for the .44-40. My understanding is that the 16-inch models won't hold enough ammo for "Cowboy" shooting. I'm doing my .454 for "fishing"/truck rifle in Montana bear country. The only reasons I'm doing it is because I can use .45 Colt ammo most of the time, and also interchange the ammo with a .45 Colt revolver. I also love the look of the 92 Winchester, although I am mainly a Marlin man. You may want to stick with the 20 inch if you are going to Cowboy shoot. By the time you cut the barrel and have a large loop lever made for a Rossi you could buy a 16-inch Rossi or convert a Marlin.

Incidentally, I am converting my Marlin 336 to .30-30 Ackley Improved and doing some of the same changes, including the large loop lever. Mic McPherson is doing my Marlin for me. You can contact him if you like.
http://www.levergun.com/main_index.htm
Some of these guys work strictly on Marlins.

If you choose to work on an actual Winchester, contact Fred Zeglin at Z-Hat.
http://www.z-hat.com/

Now that I've confused the heck out of you, I'll let you figure it out on your own.

Keep me posted on what you want to do and what you end up doing. I would be very interested.
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Old 11-04-2003, 11:57   #15
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I ordered a Rossi M92 clone in .45 Colt with the 16" barrel and they sent one with the large loop. Was this gun offered with a standard loop? I thought that's what I'd get and then this thing arrived. Don't like it much. Not interested in twirling loaded firearms around and the large loop is not handy for normal use IMO. This gun also came with defective buttstock. Has a huge defect in one side and they obviously tried to sand it out, shrinking the stock so badly that the butt plate overhangs the wood by a good 3/8". They still didn't get all of the defect out and it looks simply awful

To top it off I was shooting this gun two weeks ago (for about the third time in the three years I have had it) when all of a sudden several internal parts fell out on the ground. Apparently the locking bolt pin broke or failed. That's the one piece I never did find. Rossi, of course, no longer around and new owners not inclined to help. I guess Rossi parts went to gunsmith in VA and they are sending replacement part. Gave them card number and didn't even ask how much. Pay it or keep long paperweight around the house. This gun has been cursed, I think.

What is a an estimate on the value of this gun if I decide I don't want to mess with it, anymore?
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Old 11-04-2003, 12:19   #16
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Originally posted by SaxonPig@Nov 4 2003, 11:57 AM
I ordered a Rossi M92 clone in .45 Colt with the 16" barrel and they sent one with the large loop. Was this gun offered with a standard loop? I thought that's what I'd get and then this thing arrived. Don't like it much. Not interested in twirling loaded firearms around and the large loop is not handy for normal use IMO. This gun also came with defective buttstock. Has a huge defect in one side and they obviously tried to sand it out, shrinking the stock so badly that the butt plate overhangs the wood by a good 3/8". They still didn't get all of the defect out and it looks simply awful

To top it off I was shooting this gun two weeks ago (for about the third time in the three years I have had it) when all of a sudden several internal parts fell out on the ground. Apparently the locking bolt pin broke or failed. That's the one piece I never did find. Rossi, of course, no longer around and new owners not inclined to help. I guess Rossi parts went to gunsmith in VA and they are sending replacement part. Gave them card number and didn't even ask how much. Pay it or keep long paperweight around the house. This gun has been cursed, I think.

What is a an estimate on the value of this gun if I decide I don't want to mess with it, anymore?
Try talking with Steve Young at http://www.stevesgunz.com/ServiceSG.htm
He is aware of all the defects in the earlier Rossis, which it seems you have. Of course, I'm one who likes to customize guns so I would just have Steve fix it up. He would also tell you if it's worth fixing up. You could ask him about it having the big loop lever. I wouldn't want one that big either. Steve can probably swap you.
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Old 11-06-2003, 20:52   #17
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Originally posted by dzrtram@Nov 2 2003, 08:27 AM
Yanqui,
I just re-read your post. Do you have a special reason for the .44-40. My understanding is that the 16-inch models won't hold enough ammo for "Cowboy" shooting........ I also love the look of the 92 Winchester, although I am mainly a Marlin man. You may want to stick with the 20 inch if you are going to Cowboy shoot. By the time you cut the barrel and have a large loop lever made for a Rossi you could buy a 16-inch Rossi or convert a Marlin.

Keep me posted on what you want to do and what you end up doing. I would be very interested.
I prefer the 16" barrel lengths over the 20" barrels or longer. Especially fitted with a large loop lever. I just like the way they look. I have a Rossi 92 SRC with a 16" barrel fitted with a large loop lever in 357 Magnum, 45 Colt and 44 Magnum. I came across a Legacy 92 Puma for a good price. It has a 20" barrel. I just would like to have it look like the rest. As for the Cowboy shooting thing. I've thought about it. But from the looks of things it looks like the sport is moving in the direction of the race gun competions. That is why SASS came about. It was intended not to be about competion. Besides I like to wear whatever I like. I'm a non-comformist. I'm a modern cowboy; Tennis shoes, jeans, western shirt, leather belt with BIG buckle, NRA ball cap and pick-up truck. Ever try to hunt with cowboy boots? You wind up sliding down ground covered with dew.

I would like to have a set of Rossi's in all the caliber's available, i.e 32-20, 38-40, 44-40, 45 Colt, 44 Special/Magnum, 38 Special/357 Mag, 41 magnum, 480 Ruger, 454 Casull set up the way I like them. I've got a start. Some I'll have to have rebarreled.

Hasta
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Old 11-06-2003, 21:10   #18
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Originally posted by SaxonPig@Nov 4 2003, 11:57 AM
I ordered a Rossi M92 clone in .45 Colt with the 16" barrel and they sent one with the large loop. Was this gun offered with a standard loop? I thought that's what I'd get and then this thing arrived. Don't like it much. Not interested in twirling loaded firearms around and the large loop is not handy for normal use IMO. This gun also came with defective buttstock. Has a huge defect in one side and they obviously tried to sand it out, shrinking the stock so badly that the butt plate overhangs the wood by a good 3/8". They still didn't get all of the defect out and it looks simply awful

To top it off I was shooting this gun two weeks ago (for about the third time in the three years I have had it) when all of a sudden several internal parts fell out on the ground. Apparently the locking bolt pin broke or failed. That's the one piece I never did find. Rossi, of course, no longer around and new owners not inclined to help. I guess Rossi parts went to gunsmith in VA and they are sending replacement part. Gave them card number and didn't even ask how much. Pay it or keep long paperweight around the house. This gun has been cursed, I think.

What is a an estimate on the value of this gun if I decide I don't want to mess with it, anymore?
Your Rossi was imported by Interarms. It was listed as Rossi 92 Puma SRC L.L. Interarms carried them in their '99 catalog. I think after that they stopped importing them for whatever reason.

I have a standard Rossi lever I'll swap for your large loop lever. Let me know if you are interested.
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Old 11-07-2003, 09:23   #19
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Originally posted by Yanqui+Nov 6 2003, 09:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Yanqui @ Nov 6 2003, 09:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-SaxonPig@Nov 4 2003, 11:57 AM
I ordered a Rossi M92 clone in .45 Colt with the 16" barrel and they sent one with the large loop. Was this gun offered with a standard loop? I thought that's what I'd get and then this thing arrived. Don't like it much. Not interested in twirling loaded firearms around and the large loop is not handy for normal use IMO. This gun also came with defective buttstock. Has a huge defect in one side and they obviously tried to sand it out, shrinking the stock so badly that the butt plate overhangs the wood by a good 3/8". They still didn't get all of the defect out and it looks simply awful

To top it off I was shooting this gun two weeks ago (for about the third time in the three years I have had it) when all of a sudden several internal parts fell out on the ground. Apparently the locking bolt pin broke or failed. That's the one piece I never did find. Rossi, of course, no longer around and new owners not inclined to help. I guess Rossi parts went to gunsmith in VA and they are sending replacement part. Gave them card number and didn't even ask how much. Pay it or keep long paperweight around the house. This gun has been cursed, I think.

What is a an estimate on the value of this gun if I decide I don't want to mess with it, anymore?
Your Rossi was imported by Interarms. It was listed as Rossi 92 Puma SRC L.L. Interarms carried them in their '99 catalog. I think after that they stopped importing them for whatever reason.

I have a standard Rossi lever I'll swap for your large loop lever. Let me know if you are interested.[/b][/quote]
Yanqui, it would be a lot faster just to order one of Steve's levers that he has in stock. I won't have one for the Puma 92. BTW, I don't think the Rossi came in .454 and 16 inch, did it? I didn't think the .454 was available then.
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Old 11-07-2003, 20:16   #20
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dzrtram,
I think you maybe confused. If you re-read the post I was replying to SaxonPig. He stated,

(SaxonPig @ Nov 4 2003, 11:57 AM)
I ordered a Rossi M92 clone in .45 Colt with the 16" barrel and they sent one with the large loop. Was this gun offered with a standard loop? ......(for about the third time in the three years I have had it) ...... Rossi, of course, no longer around and new owners not inclined to help. I guess Rossi parts went to gunsmith in VA ......

What is a an estimate on the value of this gun if I decide I don't want to mess with it, anymore?
SaxonPig had the Rossi for 3 years(Legacy hasn't been around that long) and about the year 2000 many distributors(like Jerry's) were liquidating the Rossi line. The 1998 Interarms catalog listed the Rossi Model 92 in 45 Colt/44 Magnum with a 16" barrel only with a large loop lever not with a standard level. The model was listed as a Model 92 SRC L.L. The L.L. stands for Large Loop. It only offered the standard lever on 20" and 24" barrels and the 16" 357 mag. The gunsmith in VA that took over the warranty service from Interarms is...

M&M Gunsmithing
204 S. Union Street
Alexandria, VA 22314
703-739-2150
703-739-9890 fax

I'm guessing that SaxonPig is/was a dealer or had a friend who was. He doesn't state that it was a Interarms import but the evidence sort of leads me to believe it was. He/They simply did not know that they did not offer a standard loop for that model.

But if Steve has large loop levers then I'll contact him.
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Old 11-10-2003, 15:43   #21
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Yanqui, I sure must have read it too fast and did get confused. I was trying to respond to everyone before I left for a few days out of town. Hope all goes well with your project. Let us know if you accomplish what you want.
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