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Old 05-09-2011, 09:10   #1
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What constitutes "competent" HG skill?

Since the cops screw up all the TIME, THEIR level of "ability" is obviously not good enough and they get 40 or so hours of training. My own standard is to react to the beep of the electronic shooting timer, draw from concealment and get a hit on each of 2 10" disks, at 10 ft of range, disks placed 6 ft apart, edge to edge, in 1.0 second flat. This is what is relevant in handgun defense, and it's also quite easy to attain, if you start with your hand on the gunbutt, with a firing grip, with the gun in a good front pants pocket holster.

If you can't draw and hit this "fast", your gun is unlikely to do you any good at all. you simply MUST let people pass you closer than 10ft away, you can't avoid it in our society and any fit man can be all OVER you from 10 ft in 1 second flat. It is quite common to be attacked by more than one person, too. So, speed of draw from ccw is where it's at, along with swift transitions to another target. 90+% of attackers will not make you shoot them IF you get your gun pointed at them in time for them to realize that they are about to be shot and if you are smart enough to leave them an escape route.
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Old 05-09-2011, 14:54   #2
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So, as long as the assailants beep at you while standing 6 feet apart and 10 feet from you are invincible.
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Old 05-09-2011, 15:54   #3
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TAP= Trolling All Posts
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Old 05-09-2011, 16:53   #4
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Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
So, as long as the assailants beep at you while standing 6 feet apart and 10 feet from you are invincible.
but only if you are amped up on redbull and hot pockets
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Old 05-10-2011, 07:16   #5
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so you aint NEARLY fast enough, and you are too cheap and lazy to get any better, right? :-) Why else make such bs comments as you have made here?
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Old 05-10-2011, 12:00   #6
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ohhh...

such creativity...
try again, I remain unimpressed.
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Old 05-14-2011, 23:55   #7
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Old 05-18-2011, 19:44   #8
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dude....really? where the hell are you walking? personally, i have a car and that would be my first weapon. how fast can i close on you in a lexus????
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Old 05-20-2011, 16:49   #9
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Originally Posted by deersniper6 View Post
dude....really? where the hell are you walking? personally, i have a car and that would be my first weapon. how fast can i close on you in a lexus????
Going fast in a Lexus isn't the problem, it's getting stopped that seems to be an issue.

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Old 06-01-2011, 09:41   #10
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Cool

WHAT does this have to do with Mini-14's ?????

I thought this site was only for mini-14 fans...

Actually I prefer to hit the opponent at better than 10 feet otherwise he is getting close to knife range.

If I still had a mini-14, I might be talking about 20-30 feet for a hit though...
(just kidding you mini guys)
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Old 06-02-2011, 14:17   #11
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Originally Posted by larryp View Post
TAP= Trolling All Posts
Pretty much this.
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Old 06-12-2011, 16:58   #12
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Originally Posted by tap View Post
so you aint NEARLY fast enough, and you are too cheap and lazy to get any better, right? :-) Why else make such bs comments as you have made here?
Possibly because you started with this:"Since the cops screw up all the TIME, THEIR level of "ability" is obviously not good enough and they get 40 or so hours of training." and then continued on to announce your superior prowess over all LEOs?
Possibly because you pulled that 40 hour figure out of your buttt?
Possibly because its pretty universally agreed that 7 yards,(I'll do the math-21 feet)is the absolute closest you should ever allow an assailant to approach?It ain't like video games sport,a Raven .25 doesn't blow people backward,off their feet.They tend to keep advancing for a bit.
And possibly because during those "40 hours" Cops don't train on stationary,equally spaced and sized targets at a never changing,known distance?
Sell your handguns and go buy an old Nintendo with a copy of Hogan's Alley.
The world will be a much safer place.
I know a world class shooter such as yourself won't be impressed with the attachment,but that was 18 rounds at app. 22 yards(the 25 yd. ceiling light wasn't on)roughly 5 secs./6 rds with 2-3 to reload.S&W 66-1 4",158Gr LRN-flat.
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Old 06-14-2011, 18:26   #13
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Originally Posted by bob2231 View Post
Possibly because you started with this:"Since the cops screw up all the TIME, THEIR level of "ability" is obviously not good enough and they get 40 or so hours of training." and then continued on to announce your superior prowess over all LEOs?
Possibly because you pulled that 40 hour figure out of your buttt?
Possibly because its pretty universally agreed that 7 yards,(I'll do the math-21 feet)is the absolute closest you should ever allow an assailant to approach?It ain't like video games sport,a Raven .25 doesn't blow people backward,off their feet.They tend to keep advancing for a bit.
And possibly because during those "40 hours" Cops don't train on stationary,equally spaced and sized targets at a never changing,known distance?
Sell your handguns and go buy an old Nintendo with a copy of Hogan's Alley.
The world will be a much safer place.
I know a world class shooter such as yourself won't be impressed with the attachment,but that was 18 rounds at app. 22 yards(the 25 yd. ceiling light wasn't on)roughly 5 secs./6 rds with 2-3 to reload.S&W 66-1 4",158Gr LRN-flat.

That'll do the job.
nice shootin'
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Old 06-14-2011, 19:51   #14
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(cd\C:Sarcasm\BS\jerk.exe)

This guy is just AMAZING! See, repetition is the key to defense shooting! You SHOULD in THEORY be able to train by doing simulated IDPA etc and be prepared for ANYTHING in a self defense situation. REALLY!

I mean seriously .. steel targets are the same as shooting people, right? I mean, we aren't armor plated .. or generally immobile .. but it's the same! How fluid and constantly changing is a self defense shooting situation .. REALLY? It's not like we have BRAINS .. which can adapt and generally evolve the situation into something COMPLETELY different than repetition shooting at the range! With that in mind, you should be able to shoot at a bunch of steel targets at 5,10, 15 and 25 yards away .. and be prepared for any ever-changing, dynamic shooting situation that you might run across .... WHY NOT?

Therefore, if I can hit a rack of six plates with six shots in three-four seconds from concealment with my XDM 3.8 .. loaded with 124gr Gold Dot +P's (and I can) I should be able to take out six bad guys .. from concealment .. in 3-4 seconds .. (/END SARCASM) if they are standing exactly 2 feet apart at 12 yards away .. EVERY TIME!

C'mon buddy .. you need to take some real defensive shooting classes. Plinking at the range isn't the same as a real defensive shooting situation. That's just a plan and obvious fact. Have you factored in ADRENALINE? That .. time-lapse effect that people get when they are in a life or death situation? Have you factored in the loss of motor skill movements in your fingers and body when you are in such a situation? Sorry, but even Rob Leatham will tell you .. ya ain't gonna be a pinpoint shot .. unless you're VERY well trained and experienced IN REAL LIFE situations like this (LEO or Military) as a civilian with only range experience.

If you get the drop on someone .. MAYBE .. but most likely they've already gotten the drop on you if you're ready to draw.
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Old 07-08-2011, 06:16   #15
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A principal difference between practice, and actuality is being able to walk away, unscathed, from your next gunfight. THAT is what I call, 'competence' with a handgun.

(Doesn't matter how well, or not, you're able to perform during practice. Being able to accurately focus all of your energy on hitting the target DURING A PISTOL GUNFIGHT is the quintessential definition of being, 'competent' with a handgun.)
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:45   #16
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yeah, you drive your car right up into all bizes, your work place, etc, never walk anywhere, right? what a crock. I don't care if you've got a RAIL, you can't get it going fast enough that I can't step out of the way, if it's at a dead stop and we're at typical pistol ranges. :-) then you get a few bullets in the side door and at your rear windshield. See how you like it.
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:57   #17
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Originally Posted by whoa View Post
yeah, you drive your car right up into all bizes, your work place, etc, never walk anywhere, right? what a crock. I don't care if you've got a RAIL, you can't get it going fast enough that I can't step out of the way, if it's at a dead stop and we're at typical pistol ranges. :-) then you get a few bullets in the side door and at your rear windshield. See how you like it.
I find it rather amusing - John, that you have responded to one of your very own dead posts.

you disappered pretty suddenly, So we all figgured you screwed up and were back inside, and again serving as a cell block cum dumpster

welcome back you silly asshole.
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Old 10-28-2012, 14:20   #18
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Originally Posted by whoa View Post
yeah, you drive your car right up into all bizes, your work place, etc, never walk anywhere, right? what a crock. I don't care if you've got a RAIL, you can't get it going fast enough that I can't step out of the way, if it's at a dead stop and we're at typical pistol ranges. :-) then you get a few bullets in the side door and at your rear windshield. See how you like it.
I never had a fight announce an impending attack either so I would be mentally and physically prepared to do my wild West Hollywierd combat draw. Every street fight I have been involved in started within arms reach of me with no warning. 4 involved knives, one used a mop, (yep, an industrial strength heavy duty floor mop). Talk about no dignity.

Strange thing about gunfights though. We were trained to have a loaded gun, safety off in ready position when we were going into a potential gun fight zone but there was never just one of us. I guess we just didn't match up the Gold Standard of master gunman. Not a single fast draw practitioner in the bunch, only a couple of us carried pistols and all of us were carrying long guns. Man we just had no cool whatsoever.

Of course we didn't have the advanced training the kids today get, our video games were Pong and Pac Man.
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Old 10-29-2012, 19:28   #19
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Yep, the fastest draw is to already have it in your hand. I was taught that in my POST class.
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Old 11-12-2012, 16:21   #20
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yes, but unless you use a front pants pocket rig, having it in your hand, as a civilian, is going to get your ccw permit pulled, for "brandishing" or you are going to wait too long to draw. It's a bad choice. You are TRYING to rationalize not doing the WORK involved in being truly fast with a gun, that's all. go ahead, BE slow. That way another lazy smartass will get what's coming to him, hopefully sooner, rather than later.
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Old 11-12-2012, 21:31   #21
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It's called situational; awareness, if you are in a situation where there is going to be shooting you better have your gun out and be getting behind cover. Somebody kicks in your back door you better have a gun in your hand before you come face to face with him. Somebody comes into your store with a hoodie and a Halloween mask on you better get a gun in your hand.
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