OK here goes. I am evaluating ammo for my still fairly new VEPR .308, and I have run into a question now turned into questions I couldn't quickly/easily get a satisfactory answer too. (I have tried for all of a couple of hours, at least twice now)
First a little background...
I like Core Lokts in the .30 cal. because from past experience they worked great. You know how it is, you grow up with certain products that work and that is what you tend to buy. I buy Ford/New Holland Trucks/Tractors, that is what we always bought, they worked. I like Marlin Lever Saddle Guns because that was best on the wall to take where I liked to hunt, in the trees. We used horses and the weight seemed to make the Marlin more accurate than the '94. Anyways we always fought over who got it on opening day.
I like 30 calibers, 22s, Shotguns in 12s and 410s, I like long bows, and low band two way radios. These are tools I was brought up using, and they worked. I was told we were a 'simple' people, maybe but I know that we used what worked and what was economical. We didn't put on airs, and we didn't just jump on the latest thing just because some educated idiot said we should, and we shot 30 caliber Core Lokts:
30-30 150/170
.30-06 150/165/180
.308 150/165/180
150s were for Deer and Antelope, 165-170 were for Big Deer Elk and 180s were for Bear and Cougars (head-on shots only because we didn't hunt them) and the Mythical Big Ass Elk (Moose Sized-I know I saw him once. Scared me to death at 20 feet, I never even lifted my gun.).
We didn't hunt varmints much as adults, that was what kids with 22s/410s were for. Adults used 30s and 12s, anyways adults had work to do.
It was a long time before I ever even shot a .308 much less owned one. “Why?” “What do we need that for?” “Use that 30-30 then if you ain't big enough for that ought six” In the end though us six boys had a new model 70 and because the ladies seemed to like it too we got 1 more. The .308 was a compromise vs. the .270 that all my friends got, because at least it took the same bullet.
I am by breeding and training a 30 caliber lover. When I decided to do the move into war guns, and to use them as my hunting guns it showed. I went with the .308, it is like Apple Pie. I just couldn't go with the AR action though, my family has always considered the M-16 and it's derivatives as a foolish deviation from common sense brought about by listening to educated idiots. Then neighbors and cousins came home with horror stories from Nam.
Later on these same men bought AKs, not to hunt with but for fun. These were the first Gas Guns I ever shot. The accuracy thing bugged me though. But then out on my own I sprang for an SKS because it was cheap. I found the SKS to be very accurate off of a concrete bench and bags, capable of 2 out of 3 hits on 24” round plate at 400 yards . Maybe this had something to do with my ultimate acceptance of the action. That and then some years, ago a few folks told me about RPKs, VEPRs, & TIGRs; wish I had bought back when I first heard about them. To soon old to late smart as Dad used to say...
So here I am with all of my history / prejudices, trying to figure out hunting ammo for my ‘Commie Pig Gun’ in the .308. I thought I would go with the Core Lokt because they seemed to work in the Model 70’s.
Well the 150 grain SPS seemed to be pretty damn accurate. 2”/100ayrd groups are fairly common with iron sights for me (I can’t wait to get a good scope which is another thread already). The other day I ran out of the 150s and Wally-World was out too. So I shot the 180s I already had because some ‘educated idiot’ told me that anything lighter wasn’t humane on a big Elk buck (sorry I listened to ‘em Dad), and my groups opened up to 6-9 inches.
Talking to a buddy/neighbor (we share the same shooting range right on our property line, half on each side), and he said it was the rifling that caused it because the spiral was tighter. I said I don’t think so because all .308s are 1:12 or some are 1:10 like a 30-06. Nope he says, the Commies went with more than a 1:12 for accuracy with a lighter battlefield round that they went to for faster target acquisition. No that isn’t right I said they didn’t even shoot the .308, and I am pretty sure the M1A is 1:12. Check it out he said. I did it is indeed 1:12.6… Damn it OK maybe it is rifling, but .6” is enough to do it?
So now I am looking around on the web and I am running into ‘educated idiots’ saying that a 150 grain properly loaded is about the best weight for a .308 because of the cartridge size and that the 12 inch rifling is for lighter loads and the 10 inch for heavier up 200 grain. Also I soon learn that I don't need to worry, because of the ‘New Modern' bullets that a 150 will work just fine on a big Elk (They ain't never seen no 'Mythical Big-Ass' Elk though).
Well, so here I am thinking that maybe I am willing to drop down to a 165-170 for Elk but, I don’t know about down to a 150. So think well I will work that over for a bit, when next I learn that some genius has figured out how to get a 155grain Berger VLD (BTHP) to perform more accurately than the bigger VLDs and got the BC to very near equal for the same wind drift, …Crazy, man crazy. That gets me thinking, because now we are talking Magnum speeds... Definitely nice for chasing the 10"/1000yard shot though...
Screw it. I figure I am good with the 150/165 selection and then some other knot head tells me Core Lokts are too high pressured for the Bolt in a gas gun and I will ruin it… WTF! Give me a break.
So now I am throwing it all out there. I have a very accurate Kalashnikov action coupled to an accurate 23” .308 barrel with a 1:12.6 twist that likes to eat Core-Lokt 150s (puts one a hell of ding in ‘em though). I want to hunt Deer and Elk. I want to punch paper too, but I think I’ve got that covered unless it is a too much over pressure thing, if that even exists in a Kalashnikov.
So now educate me folks… BTW Ranting is OK, I like the cheap entertainment.
First a little background...
I like Core Lokts in the .30 cal. because from past experience they worked great. You know how it is, you grow up with certain products that work and that is what you tend to buy. I buy Ford/New Holland Trucks/Tractors, that is what we always bought, they worked. I like Marlin Lever Saddle Guns because that was best on the wall to take where I liked to hunt, in the trees. We used horses and the weight seemed to make the Marlin more accurate than the '94. Anyways we always fought over who got it on opening day.
I like 30 calibers, 22s, Shotguns in 12s and 410s, I like long bows, and low band two way radios. These are tools I was brought up using, and they worked. I was told we were a 'simple' people, maybe but I know that we used what worked and what was economical. We didn't put on airs, and we didn't just jump on the latest thing just because some educated idiot said we should, and we shot 30 caliber Core Lokts:
30-30 150/170
.30-06 150/165/180
.308 150/165/180
150s were for Deer and Antelope, 165-170 were for Big Deer Elk and 180s were for Bear and Cougars (head-on shots only because we didn't hunt them) and the Mythical Big Ass Elk (Moose Sized-I know I saw him once. Scared me to death at 20 feet, I never even lifted my gun.).
We didn't hunt varmints much as adults, that was what kids with 22s/410s were for. Adults used 30s and 12s, anyways adults had work to do.
It was a long time before I ever even shot a .308 much less owned one. “Why?” “What do we need that for?” “Use that 30-30 then if you ain't big enough for that ought six” In the end though us six boys had a new model 70 and because the ladies seemed to like it too we got 1 more. The .308 was a compromise vs. the .270 that all my friends got, because at least it took the same bullet.
I am by breeding and training a 30 caliber lover. When I decided to do the move into war guns, and to use them as my hunting guns it showed. I went with the .308, it is like Apple Pie. I just couldn't go with the AR action though, my family has always considered the M-16 and it's derivatives as a foolish deviation from common sense brought about by listening to educated idiots. Then neighbors and cousins came home with horror stories from Nam.
Later on these same men bought AKs, not to hunt with but for fun. These were the first Gas Guns I ever shot. The accuracy thing bugged me though. But then out on my own I sprang for an SKS because it was cheap. I found the SKS to be very accurate off of a concrete bench and bags, capable of 2 out of 3 hits on 24” round plate at 400 yards . Maybe this had something to do with my ultimate acceptance of the action. That and then some years, ago a few folks told me about RPKs, VEPRs, & TIGRs; wish I had bought back when I first heard about them. To soon old to late smart as Dad used to say...
So here I am with all of my history / prejudices, trying to figure out hunting ammo for my ‘Commie Pig Gun’ in the .308. I thought I would go with the Core Lokt because they seemed to work in the Model 70’s.
Well the 150 grain SPS seemed to be pretty damn accurate. 2”/100ayrd groups are fairly common with iron sights for me (I can’t wait to get a good scope which is another thread already). The other day I ran out of the 150s and Wally-World was out too. So I shot the 180s I already had because some ‘educated idiot’ told me that anything lighter wasn’t humane on a big Elk buck (sorry I listened to ‘em Dad), and my groups opened up to 6-9 inches.
Talking to a buddy/neighbor (we share the same shooting range right on our property line, half on each side), and he said it was the rifling that caused it because the spiral was tighter. I said I don’t think so because all .308s are 1:12 or some are 1:10 like a 30-06. Nope he says, the Commies went with more than a 1:12 for accuracy with a lighter battlefield round that they went to for faster target acquisition. No that isn’t right I said they didn’t even shoot the .308, and I am pretty sure the M1A is 1:12. Check it out he said. I did it is indeed 1:12.6… Damn it OK maybe it is rifling, but .6” is enough to do it?
So now I am looking around on the web and I am running into ‘educated idiots’ saying that a 150 grain properly loaded is about the best weight for a .308 because of the cartridge size and that the 12 inch rifling is for lighter loads and the 10 inch for heavier up 200 grain. Also I soon learn that I don't need to worry, because of the ‘New Modern' bullets that a 150 will work just fine on a big Elk (They ain't never seen no 'Mythical Big-Ass' Elk though).
Well, so here I am thinking that maybe I am willing to drop down to a 165-170 for Elk but, I don’t know about down to a 150. So think well I will work that over for a bit, when next I learn that some genius has figured out how to get a 155grain Berger VLD (BTHP) to perform more accurately than the bigger VLDs and got the BC to very near equal for the same wind drift, …Crazy, man crazy. That gets me thinking, because now we are talking Magnum speeds... Definitely nice for chasing the 10"/1000yard shot though...
Screw it. I figure I am good with the 150/165 selection and then some other knot head tells me Core Lokts are too high pressured for the Bolt in a gas gun and I will ruin it… WTF! Give me a break.
So now I am throwing it all out there. I have a very accurate Kalashnikov action coupled to an accurate 23” .308 barrel with a 1:12.6 twist that likes to eat Core-Lokt 150s (puts one a hell of ding in ‘em though). I want to hunt Deer and Elk. I want to punch paper too, but I think I’ve got that covered unless it is a too much over pressure thing, if that even exists in a Kalashnikov.
So now educate me folks… BTW Ranting is OK, I like the cheap entertainment.