I'm posting this so a guest will read responses. A discussion came up about machine guns. I think my friend was confused between .30 cal and .50 cal. Anyway, the discussion changed into .30 cal verses .30-06. Will someone please advise a gues that .30 cal ammo is not the same as .30-06. Heck! Maybe I need an education. I don't think so when looking at my old bullet boards.

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<u>The original point and click interface was a Smith and Wesson.</u>

KC in KC

Cal 30, US was what the 30-06 was called back when it 1st was used by the US before WWI. And during WWII, the 30cal machine gun shot 30-06......Now the US 30 cal is the 7.62x51, or 7.62 NATO, or 308......At least this is what I think it all is. Anyone else know for sure.

Hi,

I believe most old 30 cal machine guns were in fact 30.06 ..There is also the .30 cal carbine which is actually more like a .30 cal pistol round...and these days they use the .308 in "30 cal" machine guns like the M-60

Hope this helps...

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<span style=\'color:red\'><span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\'><span style=\'font-family:Impact\'>
&quot;We say grace--We say Ma'am -- if you ain't in-ta that we don't give a damn

...I live back in the woods you see...just the woman--the kids--the dogs and me...

----and a Country Boy can Survive!&quot;

--Bocephus </span></span></span>

heh heh..looks like we both hit the post reply button within a couple seconds..at least we agree on the answer

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<span style=\'color:red\'><span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\'><span style=\'font-family:Impact\'>
&quot;We say grace--We say Ma'am -- if you ain't in-ta that we don't give a damn

...I live back in the woods you see...just the woman--the kids--the dogs and me...

----and a Country Boy can Survive!&quot;

--Bocephus </span></span></span>

What do I win ?????

How about an "ATTA-BOY" ..?

__________________
<span style=\'color:red\'><span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\'><span style=\'font-family:Impact\'>
&quot;We say grace--We say Ma'am -- if you ain't in-ta that we don't give a damn

...I live back in the woods you see...just the woman--the kids--the dogs and me...

----and a Country Boy can Survive!&quot;

--Bocephus </span></span></span>

Most NATO General Purpose Machine Gun (GPMG) rounds today are all 7.62 x 51 mm (generally known in the civilian world as the .308 Winchester. Essentially both the .308 and the .30-06 cartridges use the same bullet (.30-06 can accomadate a slightly heavier bullet, though) but I believe that the .308 cartridge is just a shortened .30-06 casing to reduce the power of the round and reduce its effective engagement range to about a kilometer. The .30-06 cartridge is known in the military as the 7.62 x 63 mm round.

You do have to be careful when you hear the term "30-caliber" used to describe a machine gun round since there are a lot of battlefield cartridges out there that discharge 30-caliber bullets. In general these cartridges can be broken down into three categories of 30-caliber rounds - Pre-Post War US, Post War NATO, and Warsaw Pact. Pre-Post War US .30-cal machine guns, such as the Browning M1919 and the Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) used the .30-06 cartridge as it was the standard infantry round of the day. Post War NATO machine guns, like the M-60 and M-240 use the .308 round. And Warsaw Pact systems, like the AK-47, RPD, and RPK, are chambered for the Soviet 7.62 x 39 mm M43 cartridge.

For more information on machine guns, check out Modern Firearms, an online Military Firearms encyclopedia.

http://world.guns.ru

Enjoy your research!

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Tank: "Okay, so what do you need.....besides a miracle?"
Neo: Guns.......Lots of guns."
- dialog from The Matrix

"If news teams are families, why does MSNBC have to be the Lohans?"
-Jon Stewart

So far, I think I may win a bet because the guest viewer was going to purchase some .30 cal ball ammo to use for target practice with his new .30-06! First, I told him he wouldn't like his Rem. 700. The Rem. is pretty but I think he's going to end up with some trouble with the action some day.

Humm...maybe I should have bet something more than a pack of ....

KCinKC

__________________
<u>The original point and click interface was a Smith and Wesson.</u>

KC in KC

Hey Camera man I think you might be wrong on that 30 cal. US, prior to WW1, I believe the first 30.CAL.US. round was actually a 30/40 round.. the Krag rifles were in use for a few years prior to WW1 and prior to the 1903, I do beleive that was the "first 30 Cal US" and all rifles after that were all .30 Cal. (30-06, and 308 came with the M14) up till the cough.. gag.. 5.56.

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" If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck."

"Overkill is a often under rated achievement!"

-Rosebud 5-9-6-

To put it simply "cal" denotes the diameter of the rifled hole in the barrel. 30-06, 30-30, 300 UltraMag etc denote the cartridge that the barrels chamber is cut to match.

First was the 30 Army (30-40 Krag)
Than came the experamental 30-01 (1901 that is) AKA the 30-06 thick rim, 7.62x64
Followed by the 30-03 AKA the long neck 30-06 7.62x64
Ending up with todays 30-06 cartridge. 7.62x63 The most common mil-surp ammo for this is M2 Ball.
The 30Carb (a modafacation of the obsolete 32SLR cartridge) came about during the 1940's
The 7.62x51 (AKA 308Win, 7.62Nato) came along in the 1950's, can't remember the designation for it's ball ammo however.

In WW2 the British, Itilians, Japanese and Russians all used 30cal weapons, but NONE of them were the same as our 30cal' (Side note, the Itialians and the Jap Navy both used a, renamed only, 303Brit in a MG)

Actually the Model 700 is one of the best bolt actions on the market. Very sturdy and quite reliable. I've owner several of them and have popped many a cap without any problems whatsoever..and my current Model 700 VLS "varmint" rig in .308 is extremely accurate. Here's a recent 3 shot group fired at 100 yards with 168 gr BTHP's. This was shot off a bench using a Harris bipod. The red square is one inch..the circle is one-half inch.

Attached Images

 

__________________
<span style=\'color:red\'><span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\'><span style=\'font-family:Impact\'>
&quot;We say grace--We say Ma'am -- if you ain't in-ta that we don't give a damn

...I live back in the woods you see...just the woman--the kids--the dogs and me...

----and a Country Boy can Survive!&quot;

--Bocephus </span></span></span>

Here's a 5 shot group fired the same way with the same ammo..Even with the two "flyers" (caused by me twitching), the group is still sub MOA (Under 1 inch at 100 yards)

Attached Thumbnails

 

__________________
<span style=\'color:red\'><span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\'><span style=\'font-family:Impact\'>
&quot;We say grace--We say Ma'am -- if you ain't in-ta that we don't give a damn

...I live back in the woods you see...just the woman--the kids--the dogs and me...

----and a Country Boy can Survive!&quot;

--Bocephus </span></span></span>

It says 7.62 NATO M-80 Ball on the wooden case I have from the last case of GI surplus I bought. (I hadda go look cause I couldn't remember for the life of me )

__________________
<span style=\'color:red\'><span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\'><span style=\'font-family:Impact\'>
&quot;We say grace--We say Ma'am -- if you ain't in-ta that we don't give a damn

...I live back in the woods you see...just the woman--the kids--the dogs and me...

----and a Country Boy can Survive!&quot;

--Bocephus </span></span></span>