that is funny, plenty of soldiers used heavy 30 caliber rifles in WWII, Korea and Vietnam under real battlefield conditions.You should not put so much faith in the "games" you see people play when no one is shooting at them. Another thing to add is if these rifles are "obsolete" why were so many sent to Iraq?
I carried an XM-21 in Viet Nam for sniping and combat duties. I loved that rifle. If it had been a girl I would have married it. Sure, they are a little heavy but in the heat of combat, you won't notice the weight. Trust me on that issue. And when they need a precision shot, that extra weight just isn't there when you shoot it. The .308/7.62 NATO caliber rifles are a little heavier but they are worth it, especially when you're young.
A 308 rifle is like the trade off between a car and a truck.
A car gets better gas mileage and easier to maneuver in small parking lots.
But when you need to pull a boat, trailer, haul a 4-wheeler, haul some firewood,,,, your going to need a truck.
My DS Arms SA58 is almost 10 pounds, but its got a lot more hitting power then the AR-15.
I bought my FN to be my primary deer hunting rifle. My current rifle is a remington model 700 in 280/7mm express. The 280 ammo is expensive, and its bolt action. I wanted something in 308, semi-auto, detachable magazine and military grade. That does not leave very many options.
Is that some sort of Olympic event?
Or something for SWAT types to do?
I've run my FAL (full size R1) for nearly a decade alongside other officers who are packing AR's and have had no problem keeping up with them.
Is the gun a bit heavier? Depends.
So many tactical tommy's hang enough sights, flashlights, rails, and doohickey's on their AR that they actually weigh more than my loaded FAL.
I can't carry as much ammo as they can? Fer pete's sake. How many rounds are you gonna put down range? Every bullet you fire has a lawyer attached to it, from the instant you fire it to the time it comes to rest, you are responsible for it. I'd rather use only one bullet (or less) to end a problem and have the rest along for the ride.
I pack 5 mags for the FAL and the AR. That means 100 rounds for the FAL and 150 for the AR, and if I need more than either of those, it's gonna be more of a situation than I can handle myself. Heck, most of the time I ran with the mag in the gun and a spare tucked into a pocket on building searches and other call-outs.
I've shot critters with both the .223 and .308.
The last I shot with the .223 (55gr SP) went way too far considering the hit. A shot from right to left through the diaphragm, heart and lungs, exiting through the front of the chest and the mutt still went 50+ yards, biting, snarling and attacking everything it encountered.
I'll stick with the .308 for anything that may bite, scratch, fight back or shoot back. For hunting, even more so.
i agree with the idea of how much ammo do you really need for most situations? People have seen too many movies where one man unrealistically takes on a small army with a rifle and a handgun, and never misses while his opponents wildly spray and pray in all directions.
Wow! Our WW2 vets carried M1 Garands and an even heavier Thompson SMG's. My uncle was BAR Gunner in Korea and I lugged around a SAW in the 80's.
This gen just has no clue of what really counts.
My neighbor has an AR with $3500.00 worth of doodads and it weighs more than my FAL. Not to mention he has no military training and thinks that Xbox games are preparing him.
Shot my first deer, nice buck at about twenty five yards with my Federal Ordnance M14-SA. Peeked around a large tree and there he was, looking at me.
Open sights, straight through the heart. Hunting alone, my first experience dressing a deer also. Never even seen it done but not much different than a squirrel, just bigger.
I have to laugh when I see this "too heavy" thread popping up on various forums, but I just couldn't resist commenting.
Run 'n Gun? Wazzat? some sort of whiz bang thing they're teaching in these defense courses? Oh Well. We used to call it "Fire and Maneuver", but I guess that that just does not sound as cool.
Well, let's see. seems a lot of guys did a pretty damn good job runnin 'n gunnin' across Europe and up through the Pacific with an eight shot, eight pound rifle, twenty pound BAR and an eleven pound Thompson
It's all in the training. When I arrived on PI, the guy in the armory bounced an M1 off my chest, and I thought my arms were gonna fall off that first day. Three weeks later, I could make that thing sing, dance and walk the dog.
Are the lighter AR's more suitable for some situations and as a general purpose rifle? They seem to be doing okay, but when they really want to reach out and touch someone, the M14 gets the nod, and "too heavy" doesn't come into it.
It was 70 pounds for the Roman Legionares. No rifle to weigh.
It was 70 pounds for the rev war, the rifle was 10 pounds.
it was 70 pounds in the Civil war, the rifle was 10 pounds
It was 70 pounds in WW1, the rifle was 9.5 pounds.
it was 70 pounds in WW2, the rifle was 9.5 pounds
same in Korea, 9.5 pound rifle.
Same in Viet Namn, rifle was 5.5 pounds.
Same toady, ?
They did not adopt the m16 due to its light weight to reduce the load, they did it so you could get more rounds counted into your 70 pound load.
Not to mention that the Germans used their squad as base of fire while they maneuvered their MG34/42 mg. I have seen many a well motivated man run and gun with an M60.
As a pasty-skinned, doughy-armed, exercise-phobic lardarse of a man I am finding the idea that a couple of extra pounds is too heavy.
I'd rather carry a "heavy" rifle with a good optic and 100rds that do the job than a lighter, flimsier rifle with 10lbs of dress-up and 200rds of hopped-up .22 that can't punch through a simple block wall, thanks.
At the range Friday a guy asked what my FAL was and I gave him a short rundown. He said isn't it too heavy? Before I could egumacate him a passer by say's, "I bet this is heavier." It was an AR that the owner claimed weighed 17lbs!.....I believed him.
If I had only pick one of my rifles to live on it would be my .308 chicom M1A. Heavier than my mini, AK or AR but more confidence inspiring as well. It's the Do-all cartridge. If I can ever afford one of those bullpup conversions for it I'm going to do it and would CQB it in a heartbeat yet still have reach out and touch a MF ability. There's a reason it's still in use in both semi (M1A derivitives etc) and Full auto (240G, minigun, etc) forms. You also don't see any sniper rifles (actually military or police not mall ninja or movie fiction) in .223.
Shameless plug somewhere off the net:
".308 turning cover into concealment since 1952" sums it all up.
I have a picture of my short-gas fn-Fal in the gallery, since I posted that picture, I have added a DSA scope mount to it. I like the whole short-gas setup so much, I am building a second one that has a heavy barrel profile, I can not wait to get it finished. My only issue is do I want to spend money on a DSA lightweight lower or stick with a steel lower and do I add a scope mount or not.