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Old 05-04-2012, 18:07   #1
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'44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!

So I've done some research and have decided that my (new to me) Lee Enfield No4 MK1* in .303 Brit is nothing special. Great news

I can't get myself to dish out money into 're-militarizing' a rifle that I'll want to keep perfect, not get dinged, and be afraid to take out into the field. I've decided not to un-sporterize it, and to turn it into a pseudo-Scout Rifle.

My only worry is, how many inches should I chop the barrel? It is roughly 25.25" long. I was thinking about chopping it down to at least 18", though 16" would be sweeeet. I'm expecting quite a loss of range out of the .303 Brit, which I'm ok with, as long as it isn'doesn't render the rifle useless for long range. I also don't need a huge fireball out the end of my barrel. Does anyone know how to reload for these circumstances? Is there a rough guesstimate how many fps are lost with a 8.25" chop? Would a faster burning powder in a shorter barrel get the same velocity as a slower burning powder in a long barrel?

Any help/advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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'44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-enfielddreamrifle.jpg   '44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-enfieldscout2.jpg   '44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-enfieldleft.jpg   '44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-enfieldright.jpg   '44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-xscliftonscopemount.jpg  
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Old 05-05-2012, 15:12   #2
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It's your rifle and your money; I'm among the folks who disagree with chopping and sporterizing milsurps, but it's a free country (for now, anyway).

Obligatory dissenting opinion out of the way, I would not go any shorter than 18 inches, for esthetic, ballistic and balance reasons.
The No. 5 "Jungle Carbine" had a 20.5 inch barrel, and Brit soldiers (not a wimpy bunch) complained about the blast. Even at 20.5", a No.5 looks mighty short.
You can ameliorate the fireball and blast to a limited degree by careful selection of powders and handloading, but you can't eliminate it. You also are not going to get back the velocity you lost (roughly 50fps / inch), unless you go to a lighter bullet, which you'll probably want to do for hunting anyway.

You might also want to "try before you buy" on the whole Scout scope concept. While it looks awesome on paper, it simply does not work for some folks (like me); others love it. You still have the issue sights, which are very nice.

Worst case, you end up with a fairly light, handy boltgun shooting an authoritative cartridge with very useful aperture sights, 10 rounds on tap and a couple of chargers in your pocket. It will handle most any task you need a rifle for.
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:42   #3
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Hey thanks for the feedback PigBat.

Upon reading this informative article: SWAT Article BARREL LENGTH
I've decided to chop my barrel to 18", if I even do it at all. It's so difficult though, because I've now found on a couple other forums that my model Enfield is kind of coveted as a higher quality accurate rifle (being a Canadien "Long Branch").

Either way, I'm stuck until my Lee .303 FCD and Ram-Line synthetic stock get shipped to me from MidwayUSA.

I'm already a fan of the scout rifle concept. My Mini-14 is already set up that way. I just need to acquire an XS Scout Mount and a nice scout scope.
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Old 05-09-2012, 19:13   #4
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Capt, as an Enfield collector I hate to see especially the WW2 rifles cut and sporterized. I feel the same as PigBat, its your rifle to do with as you please. I have a Savage No4 Mk1*/3 that was FTR'ed after the war. I change it into a sporter stock and use it deer and elk hunting. It looses a bit of its accuracy in the sporter stock but is still plenty accurate. I believe it has something to do with the military full fore stock pressure points that put 4 to 6 pounds of upward pressure on the barrel. I have seen a few of the santa fe enfields that were nicely done and pretty darn accurate.
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Old 05-11-2012, 20:12   #5
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I have been perusing eBay lately, and have found 'mostly' complete stock sets, with separate forearm pieces available for sale. I'm thinking that, as the wallet permits, I may begin to slowly 'stock up' on stock pieces, bands, etc., just so I'll have them if/when I want to put this rifle back into 'militarized' form.

That being said, I have just received my new Ram-Line stock from MidwayUSA. It's much better, ergonomically, imo. The LOP is longer, it has a comfy buttpad, and it's lighter. The 'original' sporterized stock had a forearm 3" shorter than the Ram-Lines, so the barrel looked crazy long. It's not too bad now. If I find I don't mind the 25.25" barrel length, then I won't do anything permanent to it.
I'll have to do more research on the difficulties of re-installing and re-zeroing a front sight on a shortened barrel, and tailoring those irons to the ballistics of my own pet loads. Sounds like fun...

Here's a few before/after photos:
Attached Thumbnails
'44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-enfieldbefore.jpg   '44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-enfieldafter.jpg   '44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-enfieldram-line-.jpg  
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Old 05-18-2012, 05:32   #6
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That Ramline looks much better than the ATI. Good call!
While more expensive, you might want to go with a barrel band front sight, rather than a ramp. Drilling your barrel for the screw(s) is a bit scary. You can sweat solder the ramp on, but I believe it's easier to properly align a barrel band sight, and more secure when you do sweat it on.

Handguards, stocks, metal bits, accessories:

http://e-sarcoinc.com/handguards.aspx
http://e-sarcoinc.com/stocks.aspx
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/...px?catid=11954
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/...px?catid=11953

Both of these companies are good to deal with.

Last edited by PigBat; 05-18-2012 at 05:40. Reason: add links
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Old 05-18-2012, 08:04   #7
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Originally Posted by PigBat View Post
That Ramline looks much better than the ATI. Good call!
While more expensive, you might want to go with a barrel band front sight, rather than a ramp. Drilling your barrel for the screw(s) is a bit scary. You can sweat solder the ramp on, but I believe it's easier to properly align a barrel band sight, and more secure when you do sweat it on.
Thanks! It's wayyy more comfortable in my hands now. The only thing I worry about it how light it is. I have a feeling the felt recoil will be amplified. No problem.
I still haven't decided on whether or not I'm going to shorten the barrel. Any reasons for me to do that are secondary to more important issues. First, I need to bore slug the barrel and get an exact diameter. I'm hearing these barrels can be anywhere from .310-.312" and I really want to get a good fit. Once I do that I have to find a good supplier of bullets to reload, etc., etc. Then make sure this thing shoots straight
I''ll also need to save $$ and find a good used Leupold or Weaver. That may take some time.
Then I have to get the Clifton Mount attached (non-permanent) and mod the stock for fit. XS Sight Systems - Scope Mounts
So shortening the barrel will be probably the last thing i get to do, if I even do it at all. If so, I will do like you say. In fact, I was thinking about just reusing the factory barrel band sight, and just re-machining the barrel for it to slide on. Unless you think the factory sight profile/height will be too difficult to re-zero.....

Thanks for the advice and links.
Attached Thumbnails
'44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-enfielddisassembled.jpg   '44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-ram-line1.jpg  
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Old 06-23-2012, 00:33   #8
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Awesome! For some reason I think Enfield sporters are beautiful.
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Old 06-23-2012, 08:10   #9
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Originally Posted by thickmojo View Post
Awesome! For some reason I think Enfield sporters are beautiful.
Thanks thickmojo. I have an affinity for things built solid, dependable, and useful, and find beauty in the fact that those priorities stood above aesthetics, and sometimes, even ergonomics. I guess that's why I like older firearms, my dads old tools and my old C10

Anyways....the Enfield is coming along. Last weekend I dropped it off to get chopped down to 20" not 18" or 16". Cost will be $80-$100, depending on if they need to remove the barrel to fit in the 'vice'.
I asked the 'smith if I was stoopid for doing this. He asked how it shot, how the bore was, and confided that he had 'no love lost' for sporterized milsurps, as long as they were getting shot by shooters Neither of us are collectors. I left it with him and should be getting the call to p/u this upcoming Mon. or Tues.

I've received the Acraglas and XS Mount already from Brownell's (excellent customer service! went over/above to fix their mistakes immediately!).
I just ordered an inexpensive scope and rings from Amazon.com yesterday.

Rule .303!
Breaker Morant - YouTube

More to come...
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'44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-acraglasmount.jpg   '44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-enfieldawesomeness.jpg  
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Old 07-09-2012, 00:56   #10
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Enfield Update

Just got back last night from my families BOL where we took our 4th of July vacation to do some selection cutting of trees. While there I added the XS Scout Mount and NCstar 2-7x32 scope to the barrel of the Enfield. This is how it sits right now.
I still need to take it to my dads to inlet the stock so that it all fits together.

***Sidenote: I got my barrel chopped and recrowned at Magnum Precision Gunsmithing @ 3828 N 28t Ave., in PHX. It cost me $80, which is fine.
My Rifle takes two screws. They lost half of them. That's right. I now have a new cheap shiny-ass Lowe's machine screw holding my rifle together until I can get down there and figure out what the hell's going on. I cannot find an original screw on eBay yet. Very unprofessional!
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'44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-2012-07-08_14-14-29_483.jpg   '44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-2012-07-08_14-14-13_283.jpg   '44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-nmstorm.jpg   '44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-woodcut.jpg   '44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-woodcut-1-.jpg  
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Old 07-11-2012, 16:04   #11
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Finished!

Finally....she's done
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'44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-picture-001.jpg   '44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-picture-003.jpg   '44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-picture-002.jpg   '44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-picture-005.jpg  
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Old 07-12-2012, 00:23   #12
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Here you go for Enfield screws. I'm surprised you found screws at a hardware store that work as the screws on the Enfields are some weird British thread pitch. Services
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Old 07-12-2012, 00:42   #13
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nice....thanks Jeff F. I'll check it out as soon as I can get indoors. I'm out repoing cars right now in the rain. The screw came from my dads huge collection of crap he just can't throw away, haha. I mentioned "Lowe's" only to imply the screw is newer and not from 1944, not blued, just phillips-head ugly.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:29   #14
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Repoing cars, ha ha, my buddy Shawn and I did that for awhile back in the 80's in our late teens in the SF bay area. Oh man, we got beat up and shot at a few times. Gave it up when Shawn got a flesh wound from a cranked up bitch with a .38 outside a bar. Stay safe.
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Old 07-20-2012, 19:05   #15
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Out with the new, in with the old

Originally Posted by Jeff F View Post
Here you go for Enfield screws....Services
Hey Jeff F I just received my 'new' rear trigger guard screw in the mail from Evans Custom Screw and Machine. Scott was a pleasure to deal with. Thank you for the referral.

About repoing: We try to avoid confrontation all together, and be sneaky, like ninjas especially in AZ, where everyone and their mom is packing some kind of heater. We're actually known for keeping things under control, but since my driver's jaw was recently broken (unrelated accident), he's very vulnerable, so I've had to step up 'security' lately.
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'44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-no4mk1before.jpg   '44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-no4mk1after.jpg  
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Old 07-20-2012, 20:26   #16
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Hey, that Enfield came out really nice. It look like a well done sporter should.
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Old 07-20-2012, 23:44   #17
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Thanks Jeff!
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Old 08-05-2012, 19:04   #18
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HI Jeff fishy
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Old 08-05-2012, 19:37   #19
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Originally Posted by Drache Teufel View Post
HI Jeff fishy
I've been noticing all the useless posts you've been making lately. It seems true that you really have "nothing to offer here" so why don't you stay out of my threads and go play at the kiddie table. We don't need you around here.
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Old 08-05-2012, 20:22   #20
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Originally Posted by Capt. Killingfield View Post
I've been noticing all the useless posts you've been making lately. It seems true that you really have "nothing to offer here" so why don't you stay out of my threads and go play at the kiddie table. We don't need you around here.


Last person that asked me to stay out of their post I did and they didn't stay out of mine. That is why all this is going on.
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Old 08-05-2012, 23:33   #21
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Ignore "Douche Tofu" he has zero experience, owns no guns, and has nothing worthwhile to add. He's just lonely, worthless, and needs someone to talk to
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Old 09-01-2012, 20:03   #22
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Ben Avery Range Report 9.1.12

After cheeking the Enfield many times I noticed that the scope seemed a little off center, a little rotated. I flipped the rings and it looked right.
So I took the Enfield to BA today to resight it...

(5) 5-round groups were taken at 50yards under 2x magnification w/ handloaded .303. Bipod, no sandbags.

Pic 1:
The shots under the tape was my first group. Unbeknownst to me, the front optic ring was unwinding itself from the recoil, even under the pressure of the rubber Butler Creek lens cover. It was at this point that I broke out in a cold sweat. A 3.5" group at 50yrds was not going to work!!
The second, uncovered group in the pic (1.23") was actually my third group of the day. This was after the "fix".

Pic 2:
The two shots under tape were part of a nasty second group taken while the front optic lens began popping off after every shot. I began to get frustrated and almost packed it up for the day. Then, out of desperation, I grabbed some masking tape and gave the lens a couple of wraps, then replaced the lens cover. It seems to work, for the moment.
The two remaining uncovered shots are from groups 4 and 5, fired to zero the rifle after the "fix". My final group (1.57") put 2 shots through the same hole, with three in the bull.

I went home happy after this, too hot to try (or walk) the 100 yard line.
Now I just need to get some red lock-tite and put this front lense ring on permanently.
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'44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-2012-09-01_18-15-32_538.jpg   '44 LE No4Mk1* into a PScout Rifle!-2012-09-01_18-16-17_667.jpg  
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Old 09-02-2012, 01:06   #23
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really nice setup! i've got a swedish mauser that i picked up almost 20 yrs ago when they were $85 at the gunshows with the plan of doing the same thing. ordered the ramline stock & scope mounts/rings, but never have went any further. i got busy with life for a few yrs & the project stayed mothballed, then when i pulled everything back out, the rifles were demanding a much higher price, so currently it has been reinstalled in the original stock.


since this is a thread on enfields, do any of you enfield guys have any old parts laying around for a no1 mkIII? i bought a 1943 aussie no1 mkIII (also about 20 yrs ago) & the guy gave me a "junk" 1918 brit no1 mkIII that had been a drill rifle. the firing pin/bolt head had been demilled & the safety assembly had been robbed along the way. i had planned on refinishing it as a wall hanger, but sadly it was in a garage fire 2 yrs ago & the wood ruined. i hate to invest much in it since its a non shooter, so some of the collector prices on ebay etc. are out of my range, so looking for cheap takeoffs. if i dont run across anything, i may disassemble it & part it out.
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Old 09-02-2012, 02:52   #24
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Thanks Leadpoison. Sorry, but I can't help you with the mkIII parts, eBay is the only thing I could think of. Just wanted to say your Mauser looks to be in great condition. It looks like an "un-bent" Mosin....kinda. Very nice!
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Old 09-02-2012, 13:46   #25
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Originally Posted by Capt. Killingfield View Post
Thanks Leadpoison. Sorry, but I can't help you with the mkIII parts, eBay is the only thing I could think of. Just wanted to say your Mauser looks to be in great condition. It looks like an "un-bent" Mosin....kinda. Very nice!

thanks! i wish i had the hindsight back then to have picked up a few more of these. it was right before the first ban took place & a large selection was still being imported. this one is an 1898 dated rifle that looks brand new. at the same show i picked this one up at, i also brought home two really nice russian sks rifles for $89 each. should have picked up a few more of those also....

funny i should find this thread with your build as there is a twin to your rifle on a local classified site right now, minus the cut & recrowned barrel...
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