Shot the scope off my Mosin three times!, Ugh! - Shooting Sports Forum


Curios and Relics C&R, collecting vintage firearms, etc.

Like Tree11Likes
  • 1 Post By Rockys Pop
  • 2 Post By JRedHorse
  • 1 Post By Josh Smith
  • 1 Post By Josh Smith
  • 2 Post By Josh Smith
  • 1 Post By Josh Smith
  • 1 Post By Josh Smith
  • 1 Post By pappa44
  • 1 Post By Josh Smith
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-30-2015, 18:30   #1
Moderator
 
JRedHorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Classified
Posts: 2,300
Angry Shot the scope off my Mosin three times!, Ugh!

So this is my story Mosin story,

I have two Mosin Nagant 91/30's one I kept stock with the exception of scoping it due to failing eye sight and the other a "Modernized" version, Poly Monte Carlo stock, bi-pod, modern scope, limb saver brand recoil pad and the subject of this tale of the jumping scope.

The original (1940Tula) was scoped by me about a year ago and I have probably put 500 rounds through her with no issues regarding the scope, I used the type of scope base that utilizes the "rear pins contact" point of the old ladder style sight base, old weapon, new scope, no issues.

Now the modernized one is an older hex receiver ( Izzy 1929 version) and the ladder sight base on this one was more narrow than the (1940 Tula) so I could not utilize the same scope mounting tech as I did with the Tula so I had to remove the entire soldered on ladder sight base which uncovered the dove tail sight mount under it (what a pain in the butt removing that one as it was soldered on pretty damned well).

I scoped the Izzy using the dove tail base and tightened the rings base screws down on the weapon to the point I thought I'd snap the dove tail mounting screws clean off, I also used the red locktite thread locker on the screws, I ran about 30 rounds through her at one range day until the scope jumped off the base which shocked me.

I remounted the scope pushing the limits of the base screws to the point of near failure, put about another 50 rounds through it and again the scope pops up and I catch it before it hits the ground, I replaced the scope rings and added even more red locktight, passed about 40 rounds through her and this time the scope ended up falling onto the range table.

I got her home and began to inspect the dove tail since the scope rings were changed out I figured it had to be something else, at first I couldn't see anything amiss until I examined the dove tail under magnification and this is what I discovered....

During the process of heating the ladder sight base off the welded on dove tail I had heated the base enough to tap and slide the ladder base off but not enough continued heating to allow all of the solder to run out of the tiny contact line where the barrel and the dove tail meet, I didn't see this as it was clean and uniformed after the removal of the sight base but it appears to be enough that I couldn't get the scope ring base to "bite" onto the dove tail enough to properly secure the rings to the dove tail base.

I remounted the scope again and will head to the range tomorrow to see if the scope will now remain on the weapon now that I have used a dremel and cut off wheel to clean the contact surface line of any remaining solder, if that doesn't work I have no idea where to go from there other than the possibility of mounting a Russian era PU or PE scope which I prefer not to invest $300-$400 for a scope on a $200 old battle weapon.

So I guess this is a cautionary tale of trying to kit bash an old relic with new technology !

I do pray and hope that I have discovered the cause of my break dancing scope troubles.

Has anyone here had to deal with two different ladder style sight base sizes between an earlier and later version of the Mosin Nagant's ??? and if so what was your cure for the difference in base widths ?
__________________
Native by birth, Pirate by choice !"I come in Peace yet know the ways of war".

Last edited by JRedHorse; 10-01-2015 at 15:54. Reason: spelling correction
JRedHorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 04:44   #2
Born 100 years late.
 
Rockys Pop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: N.E. Alabama foothills
Posts: 2,173
can you silver solder (or have it done) the ring base into the old dovetail?
JRedHorse likes this.
__________________
Democracy is 2 Wolves and a Lamb voting on what's for dinner......
Liberty is a well armed Lamb !
Rockys Pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 08:42   #3
Moderator
 
JRedHorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Classified
Posts: 2,300
Thumbs up Now why didn't I think of that?

Originally Posted by Rockys Pop View Post
can you silver solder (or have it done) the ring base into the old dovetail?
Thanks RP, I do know how to solder and I have the stuff to do the job on hand, don't know why I didn't think of this?

That would be a good "next step" if my last one doesn't work out.

Outstanding idea !!!

You're the Man !!!
__________________
Native by birth, Pirate by choice !"I come in Peace yet know the ways of war".

Last edited by JRedHorse; 10-01-2015 at 15:52.
JRedHorse is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 10-01-2015, 15:56   #4
Moderator
 
JRedHorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Classified
Posts: 2,300
I got side tracked from going to the range today but hope to make it this weekend so I do not know yet if my efforts will pay off.
pappa44 and Rockys Pop like this.
__________________
Native by birth, Pirate by choice !"I come in Peace yet know the ways of war".
JRedHorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2015, 20:46   #5
Mosin-Nagant Nut
 
Josh Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wabash IN
Posts: 11
Hello,

You're just mounting rimfire rings directly to the rear sight's dovetail?

Josh
JRedHorse likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Josh Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 09:04   #6
Moderator
 
JRedHorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Classified
Posts: 2,300
You know I do not think they are "rim fire rings" as they came with the scope that was sold for a Mosin Nagant kit, so I am guessing they are center fire rings...No?
__________________
Native by birth, Pirate by choice !"I come in Peace yet know the ways of war".
JRedHorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 18:37   #7
Mosin-Nagant Nut
 
Josh Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wabash IN
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by JRedHorse View Post
You know I do not think they are "rim fire rings" as they came with the scope that was sold for a Mosin Nagant kit, so I am guessing they are center fire rings...No?
No. Centerfire rings lock in with cross pins. Rimfire top-off rings don't. All these cheap scout setups do is throw an inexpensive pistol scope into rimfire topoff rings and have you knock off the rear sight base to expose the 3/8" dovetail underneath.

You really need to do something along the lines of a Brass Stacker scope mount if you insist on using a 'scope, or a Smith-Sights Adjustable Front Sight ( ) with the stock rear if you are OK with irons.

Regards,

Josh
JRedHorse likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Josh Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 19:37   #8
Moderator
 
JRedHorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Classified
Posts: 2,300
JS, I like the idea of an iron sight set up! And Brass stacker is another option, I wanted to glass it because my 55 year old eyes only see so good.

I'll check into sight set ups for the Mosin.

And this Mosin didn't have the full rear sight when I acquired it, The "Ladder" style sight was missing but the base for it remained.
__________________
Native by birth, Pirate by choice !"I come in Peace yet know the ways of war".
JRedHorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 20:33   #9
Born 100 years late.
 
Rockys Pop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: N.E. Alabama foothills
Posts: 2,173
Jess......will a magnet stick to the base?? (is it steel?)
__________________
Democracy is 2 Wolves and a Lamb voting on what's for dinner......
Liberty is a well armed Lamb !
Rockys Pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 21:30   #10
Mosin-Nagant Nut
 
Josh Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wabash IN
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by JRedHorse View Post
JS, I like the idea of an iron sight set up! And Brass stacker is another option, I wanted to glass it because my 55 year old eyes only see so good.

I'll check into sight set ups for the Mosin.

And this Mosin didn't have the full rear sight when I acquired it, The "Ladder" style sight was missing but the base for it remained.
If you decide to go with the iron sights, let me know. I'll send you a leaf/slider/pin/spring for that base (you do still have it, right?) Should look like this, complete:



Regards,

Josh
JRedHorse and Rockys Pop like this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Josh Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2015, 20:29   #11
Moderator
 
JRedHorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Classified
Posts: 2,300
I still have the base, but.

Originally Posted by Josh Smith View Post
If you decide to go with the iron sights, let me know. I'll send you a leaf/slider/pin/spring for that base (you do still have it, right?) Should look like this, complete:



Regards,

Josh
Hi Josh, the ladder style "base" on my Hex receiver Izzy 1929 is narrower than my Round receiver Tula 1940, I still have the 1929 base I removed from the Izzy and have a complete rear sight for the 1940 Tula but the Izzy is more narrow than the Tula, don't know why this is, I could have used the "ladder" off the 1940 Tula but it is too wide to fit on the 1929 Izzy base.

But yes, that is the part in your pic.
__________________
Native by birth, Pirate by choice !"I come in Peace yet know the ways of war".
JRedHorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2015, 20:32   #12
Moderator
 
JRedHorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Classified
Posts: 2,300
Unhappy Yup!

Originally Posted by Rockys Pop View Post
Jess......will a magnet stick to the base?? (is it steel?)
The base is steel.

I tried to use the "ladder" off the 1940 Tula on the 1929 Izzy base but the 1940 "ladder" is too wide for the 29's base.
__________________
Native by birth, Pirate by choice !"I come in Peace yet know the ways of war".
JRedHorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2015, 20:43   #13
Mosin-Nagant Nut
 
Josh Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wabash IN
Posts: 11
Is your 1929 a Finnish (SA marked) M91, or just an M91?

The rear sights changed in 1930 with the 91/30 update.

Regards,

Josh
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Josh Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2015, 20:49   #14
Moderator
 
JRedHorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Classified
Posts: 2,300
Thumbs up Non SA

Originally Posted by Josh Smith View Post
Is your 1929 a Finnish (SA marked) M91, or just an M91?

The rear sights changed in 1930 with the 91/30 update.

Regards,

Josh
It is not marked SA anywhere so I am guessing a M91/30 I didn't know they changed the sights in 1930 this is probably where I am running into the size difference , Thanks !

I'd love to put a rear peep sight on her.
__________________
Native by birth, Pirate by choice !"I come in Peace yet know the ways of war".
JRedHorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2015, 21:06   #15
Mosin-Nagant Nut
 
Josh Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wabash IN
Posts: 11
Here's a pre-1930 M91 sight:



and a 91/30 sight:



Most M91 rifles were turned into M91/30 rifles in the modernization program, and if you do indeed have an M91, I'd leave it be as it's more valuable.

I've tried the peep sights that replace the rear sights, but man, they're too far forward. I made, for a time, a Rigby-style cocking piece sight, but it took too much to stabilize the cocking piece for repeatability, though it did work well after getting the stabilization system going perfected and tuned in.

I've found that deepening the u-notch on the rear sight with a 2mm round diamond file has an excellent effect.

Regards,

Josh
JRedHorse likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Josh Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 21:55   #16
Mosin-Nagant Nut
 
Josh Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wabash IN
Posts: 11
How's the Mosin, RedHorse?

Regards,

Josh
JRedHorse likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Josh Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 09:17   #17
Moderator
 
JRedHorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Classified
Posts: 2,300
I still haven't had time to address the issue, life getting in the way and all.
Going to try different things suggested here and see what happens.
__________________
Native by birth, Pirate by choice !"I come in Peace yet know the ways of war".
JRedHorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2015, 22:22   #18
Mosin-Nagant Nut
 
Josh Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wabash IN
Posts: 11
K, watching! I'm posting a vid above for you, too.

Regards,

Josh
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Josh Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2015, 03:24   #19
Son of the South
 
pappa44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The Deep SOUTH
Posts: 546
Hey Jess,heres the web site for my local guy!He has Everything Mosin Nagant!!Family Owned and Operated.Stoped by yesterday and told him I was moving and the wife ended up buying a New 9mm!Shes as Bad as I am..LOL.Anyway he has All you need to get your 91/30 Right again and his $$$$ are Good!

Mark Kubes >

https://www.buymilsurp.com/mosin-nag...ories-c-2.html
JRedHorse likes this.
__________________
American by Birth, Southern by the Grace of GOD
pappa44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2016, 11:33   #20
Mosin-Nagant Nut
 
Josh Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wabash IN
Posts: 11
Kubes is a good guy. He has a brick and mortar store as well as the website, so he's busy! But he'll get you what you need.

Regards,

Josh
JRedHorse likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Josh Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2016, 20:35   #21
Full Member
 
apatriot88's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 93
7.62x54r the scope ripping round lol...try silver solder, brazing it might require too much heat howveer if you can get away with a braze the strength if 1000x stronger... If you don't mind me asking why the sporterization?
apatriot88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2016, 20:36   #22
Full Member
 
apatriot88's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 93
Red locktite is nothing compared to red shellac hah
apatriot88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2017, 20:36   #23
TrueShotTech
 
fmj50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 414
A solid see thru scope mount may be a better remedy.

Take a look at the Trueshot Mosin see thru mount



Easy to install / video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9u8u_X7T2Y&t=1s
__________________
In God We Trust

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
fmj50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:19.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
All information is copyright by Perfectunion.com unless already under copyright.