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Old 04-01-2012, 22:31   #76
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Originally Posted by Win_94 View Post
I don't have a dog in this 308 vs 30-06 fight, but was under the assumption the police used the 308 because it has the least energy of the factory sniper set-ups; therefor less of a chance of a pass-through injuring innocent bystanders.

If I was a military sniper, I would want a 338, or something that will remain supersonic at ranges beyond 2000 yards. The 308 isn't in contention.

I don't agree with the article. The market determines demand and in turn price. Have the market discontinue a cartridge well liked as the 30-30, and I'll start making them. Supply and demand, that is what drives prices.
I read recently that the new M24 Sniper rifles are being chambered in .300 Win Magnum (800 meter range) and .338 Lapua Magnum (1500 meter range). With the .50 cal rifles they got it all covered. Shame that Carlos Hathcock is not alive to see them - I think he won his Wimbledon Cup in 1965 with a .300 Win Magnum.

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Old 04-02-2012, 21:57   #77
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Y'all can argue this till the cows come home.....I handload, I have 2 6.5x55 rifles(1bought new unfired sporterized M38 Mauser and 1 1993? Remington 700 classic bought new) yes I have differant loads for both,the Rem will show you 3000fps w/Nosler Partition 125gr bullet,the Mauser not near as fast but deadly accurate. Oh and we all know what opinions are....so I have one too, but I will NOT try to FORCE mine on anyone else. If the short mags went away I wouldn't miss them.
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Old 01-05-2013, 20:05   #78
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[QUOTE=Devil Doc;617339]

You referred to the new propellants and that is what drives new cartridge introductions. I agree, but new case geometries are also necessary to better match up with these propellants. Therefore, new cartridges.


Could you please explain this, or do you have a link with more info on that relationship? Thanks, Tom
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:19   #79
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I find it interesting that Boddington says the 300 H&H should be gotten rid of because that is one of his favorite cartridges. It's actually the best .30 caliber magnum for a number of reasons. Especially in very hot climates and with the heavier bullets. It's also a tack driver and brass lasts forever if you don't load it up to the maximum loads all the time.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:19   #80
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I guess the 22 magnum used to be the most popular varmit load when I was growing up. I always wanted to get a .22 / .22 magnum interchangable barrel gun but never did. The .22 magnum was not as great a performer as people wanted though and that is why I think a lot of these other cartridges have grown up to address its short comings. I don't shoot varmits as a hobby so I just keep a decent .22 rifle. With the hyper velocity rounds that have come out it is all that I need.

I do think this is somewhat ridiculous.


Tactical carbine rounds are another area that grew up somehow beyond the old traditional 30/30 carbine or M1 carbine. I don't really know why we as civilians need these except that we can have them so we have them. the .223/5.56 is by far the most popular of these and the 7.62x39 is the other not quite as popular one then the 6.5 Grendel came out for some reason. Another one, the 5.57x28 is out(PS90). Some pistol round carbines are cropping up now as well.

The next thing that has got sort of crazy is all these medium range calibers like .270, .280, .257, .308, 7mm and I don't even know what all. There are over a dozen of these too. Some magnum rounds were developed to get more yardage or better punch out of these but how much do you get for how much these guns and rounds cost? I just keep shooting my trusty old 30.06. Works fine. I'm not worried about it going away besides I reload these anyways.

When you look at all of these;
List of rifle cartridges - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

it looks to be getting really absurd.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:54   #81
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Hottarod
That Wiki list is missing more than a few cartridges.
Ever see a 7.62x39R ? A friend in NZ has one (303 British case trimmed and run through a 7.62x39 die, makes sense if you have a lot of Enfield rifles to play with)
17 or 22 Tuba? Another friend makes those, and has rifles chambered for them (45 ACP case necked down to 17 or 22cal)

A fast glance at my collection list (I'm just a novice cartridge collector) shows some 200 different American rifle cartridges, about 85 British, some 100 European, about 170 "military" cartridges (under 30mm), plus about 400 more that are on my "wanted" list (I won't even try to count the various wildcats that exist, but I know one guy that sold off over 1000 different wildcats from his collection)
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:35   #82
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Originally Posted by Devil Doc View Post
A bold statement...

Nevertheless, here is the link to the article and Col. Boddington's list;

Cartridges We Can Live Without - RifleShooter

.218 Bee
.225 Win.
.220 Swift
.222 Rem.
.222 Rem. Mag.
.225 Win.
6mm Rem.
.25-20 WCF
.25-35 WCF
.257 Roberts
6mm Rem.
.264 Win. Mag.
6.5x55 Swedish Mauser
7x57 Mauser
.284 Win.
7mm STW
.300 Savage
.30-40 Krag
.300 H&H Magnum
.32 Winchester Special
8mm Remington Magnum
.356 Win.
.348 Win.
.375 Win.
3 of my favorite cartridges are on that list, 25-20, accurate, quiet, and more effective than you might think. 32 Win spcl. I load it like my 30-30 but with a heavier bullet and get more thump for my dollar than I do with 30WCF. .348 Win, wouldn't use it for long range Elk Hunting in the mountains but I would fear no evil from any beast on the North American continent from alligators to Grizzlies. I do need a better butt pad though, its beginning to do bad things to my old shoulders. I always wanted a .257 Roberts and a 6.5x55 Swede and still do. Us dinosaurs like our dinosaur guns.

Only round I can see little or no use for is the 25ACP. The 5.56 should be relegated to gopher shooting and taken out of the military supply chain. There are to many better rounds out there and the only reason we are stuck with it is a gay Air Force General and his queer buddy former Secretary of Defense. Yup, you guessed it, I am not a fan of that cartridge or the two rectums that stuck us with it.
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Old 01-06-2013, 19:48   #83
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I think the biggest reason for so many calibers is the fact that people just get bored with the same old thing. Then there are the companies that manufacture various products who have to always come up with something new and different.

A perfect example comes from another industry. The motorcycle industry. Way back in the 80's Yamaha decided to go with a perimeter frame on one of their top of the line crotch rockets and hailed it as far stiffer than the typical cradle frame. It was the newest, wiz-bang design ever to come out of Japan if you read the articles back then.

Two years later they went back to the cradle frame. I'll never forget reading the response from a spokesman from Yamaha when asked why they went back to the cradle frame if the perimeter frame was so superior. His answer? "Oh, that was just marketing". Gun manufacturers are no different.

The fact of the matter is no one needs anything other than a 30-06 in North America for general hunting unless they like going into the bush after the big bears and a .375 H&H magnum is all anyone needs for that unless they want to step up to a .416. There are, of course, varmints which require something smaller than a 30-06 and the age old 22-250 fits that bill just fine.

Even the military can get by just fine on just a few calibers that have been around for quite some time with the exception of special forces who have special needs and even many of them are still packing a .45 and .308.

It's all about marketing and creating something new.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:49   #84
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I think the premise of this thread is dumb.

Trying to limit calibers, while prudent in some ways, is too socialistic for me. Whereas the scads of calibers one sees is just free-market capitalism at work. And I'm fine with it. It is marketing...but it's also people trying to build a better mouse trap.
I will keep using my 357 Magnum, but if someone wants to shoot some 6.354 bumble-tuna wonder pill, I say live and let live.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:10   #85
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Originally Posted by Risasi View Post
I think the premise of this thread is dumb.

Trying to limit calibers, while prudent in some ways, is too socialistic for me. Whereas the scads of calibers one sees is just free-market capitalism at work. And I'm fine with it. It is marketing...but it's also people trying to build a better mouse trap.
I will keep using my 357 Magnum, but if someone wants to shoot some 6.354 bumble-tuna wonder pill, I say live and let live.
Where can I get me a 6.354 bumble-tuna wonder pill, I want to try one.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:50   #86
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This kind of article is exactly why i don't pay mr. Boddington much attention
He once said we should take our kids to Africa to hunt. Almost making it sound like all of us could easily afford such a thing
He is out of touch with the people who really make up this sport. His list is a perfect example of this.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:50   #87
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This kind of article is exactly why i don't pay mr. Boddington much attention
He once said we should take our kids to Africa to hunt. Almost making it sound like all of us could easily afford such a thing
He is out of touch with the people who really make up this sport. His list is a perfect example of this.
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Old 02-14-2013, 21:56   #88
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I wouldn't pick on Boddington too much. He's just like other writers. He's got a contract and has to write something. He's very knowledgeable. My dad is 82 and just the other day he noticed an article in a very recent gun mag that he saw 40 years ago in another. The words were just changed around. As he always says, "they repeat themselves."

I pointed out his age and the fact that younger people never saw that article 40 years ago so it's new to them. Gunpowder can be the same. The new wiz-bang IMR Trailboss is just a re-creation of a powder that was made decades ago and then done away with. They just made it better. I don't remember the name of the original.

I found out about Trailboss on another gun forum. A guy there had some ammo his grandfather left him or something. He decided to pull the bullets and when he did he noticed the powder looked exactly like Trailboss. I, once again, forget the name of it. He called IMR and asked them if it was the same powder. There was a long silence and then the guy said, "But ours is better".
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Old 02-14-2013, 22:05   #89
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I always wanted a .257 Roberts
Old Grump,

My dad has one of those and the truth be told. That's all you really need for most hunting. The Roberts is a perfect cartridge for medium game. From what I have heard. Without the kick. You just can't hunt from another zip code with one.

Uh, start doing some exercises. My dad is 82 and still shoots his 375 H&H fairly regularly. He's planning a moose hunt with it. I bought him a few issues of Men's Health a few years ago and he's been doing their dum bell exercises every day since then. Along with his other routine. He found that magazine to be VERY informative on a number of issues without trying to turn him into Mr. America at his age.
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Old 02-16-2013, 20:06   #90
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Frankly in this era of ammo shortages, I wish I was more diversified. When I got back into shooting a few years ago I opted for the 7.62x51 since it allowed me to go with a short action Rem 700 and the more modern M1A. In the process I neglected the .30-06. I regret that decision standardizing on a single caliber now. If I had picked up a M1917 or Garand to go with the Rem 700 and M1A then I could still shoot it, rather than run down my limited stash of 7.62x51. .30-06 is both plentiful and available at non-panic prices here. The same observation could be made with respect to .22WMRF - I standardized on .22LR and the only rimfire I can find here is .22WMRF.

Then there's .303 Brit and 7.92x57 Mauser - old favorites, but I don't have a single rifle in either caliber anymore, and boy do I regret it now.

Don't discontinue anything or get too focused on standardization unless you really do have the room to stack 'em deep - a lot deeper than I have room for, anyway.

All the best,
Grumpy
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Old 02-18-2013, 17:54   #91
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Originally Posted by Devil Doc View Post
I think any cartridge based off the .308 Win. is exceptional due to its near perfect geometry. In my safe, I have a .243 Win., a 7mm-08 Rem. and a .308 Win. I'm selling the 7mm-08 because it's too "in between". Nonetheless, it is an excellent round possessing good long range accuracy with manageable recoil. The .243 Win. to me is the perfect Texas deer cartridge; long range ability, short action for quick and easy bolt cycling and very manageable recoil. My $0.02...

Thanks, jimbobborg and M45 Carbine for your input...
I always thought that the m16 should have been chambered for the 243 rather than 223 (5.56). IMO

I think the 270 and the 6.5 mm are good candidates for being dropped.
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Old 03-21-2013, 16:52   #92
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for my personal applications if I had to keep only a few in each "category"
.22lr, 17hmr (squirrels)
.223, 22-250 (squirrels at longer range, and yotes)
.243 (small deer)
30-30(i like lever guns, deer)
.308(deer)
.300 win mag (bigger deer or bear)
.338 lapua (elk, or moose if I ever get to go someday)
I have no reason for a .50 bmg besides just to say I have one. I don't shoot game behind brick walls.
handguns
.22lr
.380
38 special/357 mag
9mm
40s&w
.44 mag
If a .44 mag won't put it down ill grab a real gun(rifle)

Everyone has different opinions, so it is good there are so many different calibers. If the only ones were the ones on MY list, people would get bored. So many calibers offer something for everyone in every niche.
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Old 03-21-2013, 16:54   #93
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one caliber i think serves no good purpose for anyone... .25 auto
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Old 03-21-2013, 16:56   #94
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Originally Posted by Painfulitchingandswelling View Post
I think the 270 and the 6.5 mm are good candidates for being dropped.
never shot a deer with a .270 that didn't drop dead in its tracks. Id take one of a 30-06 any day.
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Old 03-28-2013, 17:42   #95
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Originally Posted by grumpy_old_man View Post
Frankly in this era of ammo shortages, I wish I was more diversified. When I got back into shooting a few years ago I opted for the 7.62x51 since it allowed me to go with a short action Rem 700 and the more modern M1A. In the process I neglected the .30-06. I regret that decision standardizing on a single caliber now. If I had picked up a M1917 or Garand to go with the Rem 700 and M1A then I could still shoot it, rather than run down my limited stash of 7.62x51. .30-06 is both plentiful and available at non-panic prices here. The same observation could be made with respect to .22WMRF - I standardized on .22LR and the only rimfire I can find here is .22WMRF.

Then there's .303 Brit and 7.92x57 Mauser - old favorites, but I don't have a single rifle in either caliber anymore, and boy do I regret it now.

Don't discontinue anything or get too focused on standardization unless you really do have the room to stack 'em deep - a lot deeper than I have room for, anyway.

All the best,
Grumpy
Bingo!!

All anyone really needs is a 30-06. The fact of the matter is that all these want to be Rambo's, for the most part, since I know there are many "spec ops" people on these forums aren't in good enough shape nor have the training to take on a trained number of "storm troopers.

How many of us out here can REALLY shoot at a target at 1000 yds accurately? Really. Yep, there are probably those on this forum that can but 500 yds is really about the max for the average guy and that is probably really pushing it. A 30-06 or a 25-06 is all anyone really needs for a 500 yd shot and I'm sure ammunition for those two calibers are on a shelf just about everywhere.

Having a gun for "survival" is really about hunting for food and self defense against others that didn't prepare properly for such a calamity. The calamity being whatever we will face in the not-to-distant-future due to a currency collapse. Donning battle armor for the average guy is a joke. It's best to just go somewhere or hunker down where you're at and stay out of the mess.

All anyone really needs is a .22, a 30-06, a shot gun and a semi-auto .223 along with plenty of ammo for all of the above. A couple of pistols would come in handy as well.

Think reloading. Not buying factory ammo. In also might ad that you can only hold one rifle/pistol at a time so versality is key.

The "odd" calibers and the old timers such as the 30-06 are really the best buys right now. All the new fangled calibers are, for the most part, worthless in a survival scenario because everyone has bought them up.

The old stand-bys are where it's at. For example, there is nothing a WSM 25 will do that a 25-06 won't do and that goes for the Weatherby .257 as well.

There is nothing the .300 Winchester magnum won't do that the 300H&H won't do. As a matter of fact the 300 H&H is superior to the Winchester with heavy bullets. There is nothing the .308 will do that the 30-06 can't do. In the hands of the average guy, that is.

For the record, I don't even own a 30-06 but I can't think of a better all around caliber for anything on the North American continent with the exception of the big bears and how many of us REALLY need firepower like that?

Rather than prepare for war with our corrupt gooberment it might be a better idea to solve the problem by writing our congressmen, senators and local county sheriffs and legislators to voice our concerns which 75% of the people in this country never do! The states have the power, ya know. Not the Federal Leviathon. Forget the feds and the SCOTUS. They are corrupt. Target you city officials and work up to your governor from there.

The states can put the cabash on the Feds. Then you don't have to worry about ammo or guns. As far as I'm concerned, every tax that the states collect for the feds right now on ammunition, accessories or firearms should be abolished by the states. In other words, the states should stop collecting it and if the Federal Leviathon doesn't like that they can move on to the income tax.

The states have the power.
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:28   #96
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Diversification has it's advantages. Agree with the above comments on all somebody needs. The 30-06 is a good cartridge as well as the .22 and the 25-06. I reload for it for my three rifles in that caliber. I see the need to have lots of calibers, but only stock a good amount for certain ones. My thoughts are just on self preservation in case of civil unrest, but more towards the natural disaster. The 30-06 ammo while plentiful now could dry up the same as the others. Some of the cartridges that are more obscure but are stocked by dealers may still be hanging around although in limited quantities. 6.5 Jap anyone? What about 30-40 krag or 303 brit? Does 7x57 or 8x57 meet your needs? What about 6.5 x 55? You can always take some rounds apart to re-use the bullet powder and primer for something that you have that is similar. Can't find .22 ammo, 17 HMR is in stock everywhere I look.

All (except the .17) will take down a deer or other critter in this area. If you want any of these can be reloaded easily if you have some basic powders on hand plus primers and bullets. Were not talking shoot out, just getting meat on the table and protecting the homestead from invaders (those that have not and now want).

Grumpy get yourself another Enfield.
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Old 03-30-2013, 13:45   #97
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Originally Posted by dh1633pm View Post
Grumpy get yourself another Enfield.
LOL! Working on it!

Gotta pay off a few debts first (Combat Commander, Security Six, etc) but I'm already putting out feelers to a couple LGS that have me on their suckers list...er that's "regular customers" list.

Thinking a nice SMLE with that wonderful sword-bayonet would be a good start to a new Enfield collection, then maybe a Jungle Carbine next.....

Best,
Grumpy
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Old 03-30-2013, 17:09   #98
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I am in the market for a 7.5 Swiss K31. Debts are paid up, just have to sell my old truck and the K31 will be mine. New truck in my sights.
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:09   #99
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Originally Posted by dh1633pm View Post
I am in the market for a 7.5 Swiss K31. Debts are paid up, just have to sell my old truck and the K31 will be mine. New truck in my sights.
You'll like the K31 is my guess. Very nicely made, very slick straight pull action, sweet accuracy if its in good shape. Probably too expensive to make today if anyone had a mind to resurrect the design but nice anyway.

Best,
Grumpy
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Old 05-01-2013, 15:57   #100
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Wink

Originally Posted by Devil Doc View Post
bquick, I can appreciate the nostalgic aspect of this cartridge which you so elequently stated. However, the original premise of this article is which cartridges can we live without based on how they are offered by manufacturers... the 6.5 Swede is an absolute fantastic round IF bought in Europe or handloaded. Here, its lame. Agreed?
Who can afford to buy factory loaded ammunition these days, even when you can find what you want.

The 6.5 Swede isn't the only wimp load in factory ammo. Try shooting factory 7x57 or 8x57 Mauser.

And he wants to get rid of the 25-20 and 25-35? What blasphemy!!
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