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Old 08-13-2010, 14:04   #26
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Tailgunner, not necessarily true. Police snipers have a choice and they choose .308 Win. According to HQ Marine Corps at Quanico, they chose this round as well. They dictate which firearm is used, which round it is based on and how it is configured.

First, it is not my round. I do not use it. Nonetheless, the last I read, sales of the .300 WSM have steadily increased more as compared to other .30 cal. cartridges, especially .300 RUM. But, I would have to verify that with other sources, so accept it as subjective at this point. Do you have any proof the .300 WSM sales are declining? I would like to see that report.
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Old 08-14-2010, 02:23   #27
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The 6.5 Swede is the most accurate round I've ever used, why would you (him) want to get rid of it.? Have it in a long barreled mauser from 1915, thought about buying it in a modern gun, the Swede would be a great round for deer hunting. If U.S. rounds are weak then buy Norma or Lapua.

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Old 08-14-2010, 07:46   #28
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Handgun .327 Fed, .357 sig, 480 ruger, 460 S&W....
Random: 5.7 FHN
Rifle: Any of the new ruger-hornady combos, 6.8spc (yeah that's right!), the stupid .30 Remington AR, and so on.

A bunch of talk about the .243!?!?!?! First off it's been around since the 50's so I wouldn't consider it "new" anymore. Second, it's a very efficient killer in the woods.

And I agree with the previous poster, anything in a .308 case IS SUPER AWESOME!

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Old 08-14-2010, 10:40   #29
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Confused...
You said you think the .243 Win. is "a very efficient killer in the woods".
But, you voted to to get rid of "anything in a .308 case...".
Did I understand you correctly? Because a .243 Win. is a .308 Win. case necked down to 6mm.
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Old 08-14-2010, 13:05   #30
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Originally Posted by Devil Doc View Post
Confused...
You said you think the .243 Win. is "a very efficient killer in the woods".
But, you voted to to get rid of "anything in a .308 case...".
Did I understand you correctly? Because a .243 Win. is a .308 Win. case necked down to 6mm.
No, you didn't understand me correctly. Yes, the .243 is indeed a necked down .308.

Sorry I'll try to be a little clearer next time.
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Old 08-16-2010, 15:41   #31
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Uhhh... maybe I was the one that was confused.
Nonetheless, does anyone have any comments about the other cartridges Col. Boddington mentioned or have any others to suggest?
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Old 08-16-2010, 22:02   #32
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Ballistics show the 7mm Mauser (7x57) and the 7mm-08 are the same. I had always like the Mauser, owned one for a while. They can dump the round now that a more available 7mm-08 is going so well. Bought one of those 4 years ago, ended up killing several Montana whitetail does with it and a nice pronghorn several years ago. Mine is a Ruger Compact, very fast handling and easy to carry. Send the Mauser to the museum heap.
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Old 08-17-2010, 22:29   #33
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I really have only handgun opinions, so if I may:

.22mag
.25
.32
.380
Makarov - cant remember dimensions
.327mag
.45gap
.460
.480
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:38   #34
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Forget the 380. keep the Mak 9x18. A better round and will work in the small blowback pistols.
22 mag is handy. the others:
.25 - useless
various 7.62 luger/mauser/tokarev,
.32 ACP
.327mag
.45gap
.460
.480
we can do without

As for rifle rounds, dump the Win mag, short nd long. replace with the Weatherby mag which at least has some more case room and enough neck to hold the bullet. That'll bring its price down to the 300 Win mag level.
Otherwise 30 cals, 7mms, 270's, 243s are taken care of by the .30/06 - .308 family plus the 7mm Mag. I hate to say it but the 6.5 is European, not a viable US round. Those, the .223 based rounds and 22 rimfire LR and mag are all we need for everything in small and medium game.
Forget the .35s, too big for deer, etc, and in bigger rounds nothing's beat the .375 H&H mag, .458, 45/70.

Now, my views on a new nuclear disarmament treaty and peace in the Middle East are that.......
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Old 08-24-2010, 02:15   #35
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I have been reading over this thread. I might be wrong, but I believe the article quoted by the OP did not say that the production of certain rounds should stop totally. The quoted article suggested more that we should import the less popular european round ammunition from europe, freeing up production capability by US. ammo makers here in the U.S.

So, here are a couple of my thoughts.
Should U.S. makers stop producing 7x57 ammunition, and should distributers import it from Europe? IMO Yes.
Should U.S. makers stop producing 6.5x55 ammunition, and should distributers import it from Europe? IMO Yes.
Should U.S. makers stop producing 7.65x21 ammunition, and should distributers import it from Europe? IMO Yes.
The same goes for other European rounds that enjoy very limited popularity, especially when better ammunition can be found from europe at a more reasonable price.

I think that some older American cartridges should move away from major manufacturing and to specialty cartridge companies. 32 Colt Short, 32 S&W Short, 32 S&W Long, 38 S&W short, 44 Special, 45 Auto Rim, etc. should move to specialty manufacturers.


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Old 08-24-2010, 02:42   #36
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cqbinkalifornia,

Just some of my thoughts.

The 380ACP is an extremely popular round at the moment. With that level of popularity I would think that it should stay on major manufacturers production lists.

The 327 Mag is apparently enjoying a bit of popularity at the moment (Ruger, S&W, Charter Arms, TC, etc are all making firearms in 327 Federal). We should see if the popularity holds out before deciding to cancel it. I think the popularity of this handgun round would go through the roof if Ruger produced a Single six in this caliber (The blackhawk is too large). Seems that quiet a few people in the mid-west see a lot of potential in the 327 Mag for small-medium game handgun hunting.

With the 45 GAP I am not really sure what should be done with this cartridge. In truth, it should be a great cartridge. 45ACP ballistics in a 9mm length frame. If it becomes more popular I would be tempted to buy one. Actually the 45GAP might be the best round to replace the 9mm for military use.

On the 480 Ruger, it is headed away from major manufacturing. Sad really, because it is really a great round (A 400gr bullet moving at about 1200fps at the muzzle is quiet useful). Truth be told, the 480 Ruger is a far more useful cartridge than the 454 Cassul, 460 S&W, and 500 S&W for the majority of hunters.


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Old 08-26-2010, 18:52   #37
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Since the .32 Special is pretty much obsolete due to age and being passed up by so many other rounds.....I wont say this one should be kicked out, out right. But I gotta wonder, "what were they thinking" when this one was legitimized. There must be a good reason that I'm missing (probably due to my not reading up on it more).

I think the only reason the .32sp held on was due to it's being chambered in the winchester lever actions.
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Old 08-26-2010, 18:53   #38
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Originally Posted by cqbinkalifornia View Post
I really have only handgun opinions, so if I may:

.22mag
.25
.32
.380
Makarov - cant remember dimensions
.327mag
.45gap
.460
.480
Your .22mag is well loved among rimfire rifle shooters.
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Old 08-26-2010, 21:40   #39
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I started to post what we could live without and the list was getting ridiculously long so I decided to post what to keep and the rest can go away.

Rimfire:

.22 short
.22 long
.22 Long rifle
.22 magnum

Rifle:

.22 Hornet
.223/5.56
.243 win
.25-06
.260 rem
.270 win
.280 rem
.7mm WSM
.30-30 win
7.62x39
7.62x54R
.308/7.62
.30-06 springfield
.300 WSM
.300 win mag
.338 federal
.338 win mag
.338 lapua
.358 win
.35 rem
.375 H&H
.416 rigby
.45-70
.458 win mag
.50 BMG

Handgun:

.380 acp
9x18mm
.38 special
.357 magnum
9mm luger
10mm auto
.45 acp
.44 special
.44 magnum
.45 colt
.454 casull
.460 S&W
.500 S&W

shotgun:
.410
20 gauge
12 gauge
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Old 08-28-2010, 05:37   #40
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Originally Posted by HighDesertWolf View Post
I started to post what we could live without and the list was getting ridiculously long so I decided to post what to keep and the rest can go away.

Rimfire:

.22 short
.22 long
.22 Long rifle
.22 magnum

Rifle:

.22 Hornet
.223/5.56
.243 win
.25-06
.260 rem
.270 win
.280 rem
.7mm WSM
.30-30 win
7.62x39
7.62x54R
.308/7.62
.30-06 springfield
.300 WSM
.300 win mag
.338 federal
.338 win mag
.338 lapua
.358 win
.35 rem
.375 H&H
.416 rigby
.45-70
.458 win mag
.50 BMG

Handgun:

.380 acp
9x18mm
.38 special
.357 magnum
9mm luger
10mm auto
.45 acp
.44 special
.44 magnum
.45 colt
.454 casull
.460 S&W
.500 S&W

shotgun:
.410
20 gauge
12 gauge
Too many there that don't really fill a void are offer too similar performance IMO.

3x .338 cartridges?
454, 460 and 500?
.380 acp & 9x18 & 9mm Luger?

Just seems to be too many overlaps.
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Old 08-28-2010, 14:22   #41
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Originally Posted by BlkHawk73 View Post
Too many there that don't really fill a void are offer too similar performance IMO.

3x .338 cartridges?
454, 460 and 500?
.380 acp & 9x18 & 9mm Luger?

Just seems to be too many overlaps.


overlap??? you know nothing of ballistics......
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Old 08-28-2010, 14:37   #42
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Originally Posted by HighDesertWolf View Post
overlap??? you know nothing of ballistics......
So, enlighten us on your knowledge of ballistics and why it was relevant here...
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Old 08-28-2010, 16:28   #43
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Originally Posted by HighDesertWolf View Post
overlap??? you know nothing of ballistics......
let me streamline that list ,If I may -22long rifle,22mag,223,243,270WSM,7mmremmag,308,300winmag ,358 win,375 rem ultra mag and 416 or 460 weatherby mag pistols go 9mm , 357mag, 45acp, 44mag if you want to carry something bigger-carry a rifle
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Old 08-28-2010, 23:56   #44
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Originally Posted by bquick View Post
let me streamline that list ,If I may -22long rifle,22mag,223,243,270WSM,7mmremmag,308,300winmag ,358 win,375 rem ultra mag and 416 or 460 weatherby mag pistols go 9mm , 357mag, 45acp, 44mag if you want to carry something bigger-carry a rifle

OK............
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Old 08-28-2010, 23:58   #45
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Originally Posted by Devil Doc View Post
So, enlighten us on your knowledge of ballistics and why it was relevant here...


Because............ how exactly do a 338 fed, 338 win mag and 338 lapua over lap??????????? yes they all the same diameter but thats all they have in common....learn some ballistics and its quite self explanatory..............
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Old 08-29-2010, 00:03   #46
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its like saying 'Oh well uh yea the 30 carbine and the 30-06 projectiles are the same diameter so since they "overlap" they must be the same so yea lets drop the 30-06 and go bear hunting with a 30 carbine'..................
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Old 08-29-2010, 12:56   #47
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Originally Posted by HighDesertWolf View Post
overlap??? you know nothing of ballistics......
Yupo, you're right, I'm a complete idiot for thinking 3 .338 cartridges are a necessary.

338 fed -> 210gr @ 2600 fps w/ 3200 ft/lbs
338 win mag -> 250gr @ 2700 fps w/ 4000ft/lbs
338 lapua -> 250gr @ 2900fps w/ 4800 ft/lbs

WOW! Look at the wide crazy differences!

So what can one do one of the other's can't? It's NOT "same projectile, same performance" I was getting at but simply that one can have one of those and not have a need for the others. Kinda like having a .30-06 and "needing" a .308. Thought this thread was about what cartridges would be needed... If so, there's a handful of cartridges than can fulfill about any sporting requirement.
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Old 08-29-2010, 13:02   #48
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Originally Posted by HighDesertWolf View Post
its like saying 'Oh well uh yea the 30 carbine and the 30-06 projectiles are the same diameter so since they "overlap" they must be the same so yea lets drop the 30-06 and go bear hunting with a 30 carbine'..................
Nope not even close for a comparison. The .338 cartridges in question have numbers too close to each other and the .30 carbine v .30-06 in your comparison are FAR apart in numbers.
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Old 08-29-2010, 15:16   #49
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Originally Posted by BlkHawk73 View Post
Yupo, you're right, I'm a complete idiot for thinking 3 .338 cartridges are a necessary.

338 fed -> 210gr @ 2600 fps w/ 3200 ft/lbs
338 win mag -> 250gr @ 2700 fps w/ 4000ft/lbs
338 lapua -> 250gr @ 2900fps w/ 4800 ft/lbs

WOW! Look at the wide crazy differences!

So what can one do one of the other's can't? It's NOT "same projectile, same performance" I was getting at but simply that one can have one of those and not have a need for the others. Kinda like having a .30-06 and "needing" a .308. Thought this thread was about what cartridges would be needed... If so, there's a handful of cartridges than can fulfill about any sporting requirement.

their far enough apart to create performance gaps.
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Old 08-29-2010, 16:01   #50
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Originally Posted by HighDesertWolf View Post
their far enough apart to create performance gaps.



So how many fps does a cartridge need to have v another cartridge to have it be "far enough apart". Same with ft/lbs? I'm pretty sure the game animal won't be able to tell the difference and range isn't going to be an issue with either.
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