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Old 08-03-2004, 20:45   #1
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Hey guys, I have always wanted a bull barrel .308 tactical "sniper" style rifle. Any of you have one, and if so what kind of groups do you get right out of the box? I have looked in to Savage and Remington mainly. Like them both. Thanks.
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Old 08-03-2004, 21:42   #2
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Adaman04, welcome to the bolt forum! I've only shot the Rem. 700, so I can't say anything about the Savage, but I do know that Remington doesmake a really sweet rifle.
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Old 08-04-2004, 16:24   #3
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Can't go wrong with a Remington 700,... adjustable trigger, many aftermarket accesssories.

Purchased a Savage 12bvss with the new adjustable trigger. Beautiful rifle, got half inch groups out of the box, cost me $525. Purchased it from the head of our states taskforce on terrorism. He had recieved it as a gift and wouldn't touch it as he was partial to the Remington 700.

Both are accurate. The Savage is not as expensive as the Remington, other than that it's a toss-up.
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Old 08-04-2004, 22:00   #4
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Welcome to the forum mandrake! I like hearing good things about Savage Firearms. For some reason, my local gun dealer thinks they're trash - something I'm inclined to disagree with him about. I've only heard good about the Savage line of bolt rifles. But then again, the same can be said for Remington. Guess that means we'll have to buy both!
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Old 08-05-2004, 20:32   #5
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It seems Savage is getting better and better in the quality department.

Now they just need to get a better stock on their rifles. Much to blocky for my taste, guess I'll have to "settle" for a remington.
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Old 08-08-2004, 11:00   #6
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I like Savage rifles. I have a 112 HB in 308, a 116 in 300 RUM and a 111 in 223. All shoot very well. Farell steel bases on all of'm. Best of all you can re-barrel them yourself without reamers or a lathe. Sharp Shooters Supply is a good place for Savage owners. http://www.savageshooters.com/sharpshooters/
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Old 08-08-2004, 14:30   #7
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Ref "blocky stocks", at least you get enough wood that you can rasp it down to what you like (same thing is true of the CZ "hogback"BTW). Cutting off excess wood is easy and cheap, adding wood where you need/want it is difficult and expensive.

BTW I use a custom, Mauser baised, rifle for my LR work.
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Old 08-08-2004, 15:25   #8
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Originally posted by adaman04@Aug 3 2004, 07:45 PM
Hey guys, I have always wanted a bull barrel .308 tactical "sniper" style rifle. Any of you have one, and if so what kind of groups do you get right out of the box? I have looked in to Savage and Remington mainly. Like them both. Thanks.
I re-barreled one of my Mausers in .308cal about 10 years ago. I used a Santa Barbra barrel and a Monte Carlo wood sporter stock (blank). For optics I used a Bushnell 3-9x50 Sportview scope with Weaver mounts. When I was done the only thing original was the Mauser actions receiver. Constant <3” at 100 yards.

My next Mauser project will incorporate a Adams & Bennett Barrel in .308. This barrel is 24” long, F54 contour w/1 in 10” twist and fluted. Based on a synthetic stock with an aircraft aluminum milled bedding. A Bold 2-4lb adjustable trigger w/safety. High tech yes - but not really intended to be a “sniper” rifle, as I plan on leaving the barrel alone going for a two tone look. At the end of the day highly capable long range target/varmint rifle- I’m really working toward having groupings of <1/2”.



Cheers!
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Old 08-08-2004, 18:01   #9
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"Constant <3” at 100 yards."
I hope your "gunsmith" gave you a full refund for his lousy workmanship and all the parts he ruined.


"My next Mauser project will incorporate a Adams & Bennett Barrel...I’m really working toward having groupings of <1/2”."
Go with a #4 or #5 Shilen barrel, you won't have to work nearly as hard to get tight groups or remove anywhere near the amount of copper from it after your shooting is done.

The rifle I mentioned above (previous post) is on it's second Shilen (30-06, 1-12 BTW), I scrapped the 1st barrel after 7500 rounds because the groups (5 shot) had opened up to 1", before that it was consistantly sub .5 out past 500yd. The second (current) barrel is shooting in the .3 range with the leftover ammo from the first barrel. The last group I fired was at 200yd prone, off a wobbly post (ammo box turned on end) and measured 1/2 high x2" wide for 6 rounds.
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Old 08-08-2004, 19:39   #10
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I've been looking at a few different rifles. The CZ 550 varmint, Howa and FN SPR A1. There are functional advantages and cost advantages to each. The FN is by far the most expensive coming in at $1100, but it has a lot of extras. Or I could get a bottom of the line CZ or Howa for $500, but the upgrade options are not as readily available. The difference is the FN has been blueprinted, a true action, free float barrel, custom stock, guaranteed accurracy of 1" or less at 200 yds, and many other extras.

Ofcourse I could get a Remington 700 PSS, but I would spend as much money on all the upgrades and come out with less of a rifle.

This is my conclusion out of hours of drooling in gun shops and on my keyboard.
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Old 08-08-2004, 21:55   #11
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Originally posted by Tailgunner@Aug 8 2004, 05:01 PM
"Constant <3” at 100 yards."
I hope your "gunsmith" gave you a full refund for his lousy workmanship and all the parts he ruined.

"Lousy workmanship"? Hmm..

That is kind’a funny actually. Because except for seating the barrel & head-spacing I did all the work myself. So I’d tend to agree with your comment about the gunsmith. Trust me this next rifle I am working on will be a whole different story.

The sad truth is - in defense of my old Stag killer - is that like'em or not, most of those numbers are more my fault than the rifles. As I do see fast improvements in the way of <1” to 1.5” groups, with some of the more expensive ammo and even more improvements when I bench fire the rifle. But a weekend at the range (or an old dump) I normally use surplus 308 if I’m just playing around. Fact is more consistent trips to the range would probably see even better results, along with a new set of younger eyes.


But again that rifle was my first attempt at building a rifle on my own and for what I wanted to use it for it was just fine. Remember I wasn’t looking to build a rifle that would take game at more than 100 to 150 yards max. Is it capable of taking game beyond that? Probably – but one little mistake on a freezing cold morning trying to harvest an animal at over 100yards (unless you are Davy Crocket) even with the best firearm in the world and you’ll be chasing blood trails for hours.

But thanks for the comments anyway.


Cheers!
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Old 09-10-2004, 06:18   #12
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Can't go wrong with a Remington 700,... adjustable trigger,
Do ADL's have this? I have a BDL and a VLS. The VLS has a 26" Heavy barrel and it drives tacks. Love the Hornaday 168's.

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Old 09-23-2004, 16:33   #13
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I like my 700pss in .308win
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Old 10-09-2004, 15:28   #14
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Originally posted by adaman04@Aug 3 2004, 09:45 PM
Hey guys, I have always wanted a bull barrel .308 tactical "sniper"* * style rifle. Any of you have one, and if so what kind of groups do you get right out of the box? I have looked in to Savage and Remington mainly. Like them both. Thanks.
Hi guys. I'm new to this forum and kinda shy so please go easy on me.

After doing a lot of research I bought a Savage 10FP with 26" bull in .308 for $490. Many have said theirs get 1/2MOA out of the box. A sheriff deupty I shoot with sold his Remington 700 sniper rifle and bought a Savage 10FP. I have mounted Burris DD Mounts, Burris Signature DD rings with inserts, and Burris Signature 6-24x44mm scope, with fine duplex, target knobs, and AO. My Savage can be adapted to any short action caliber, by buying the Savage barrel, and bolt face. About $150 will do it. Also needed is barrel wrench, and head spacing guage.

I bought it because of its awsome accuracy out of the box, can easly convert it to other calipers, trigger is owner adjustable to 1 1/2#, over sized bolt so you can shift with mittens on, low cost and can use it for benchrest in the hunter class or benchrest class, because the bull barrel is stock from the factory.

I have heard others say for a project gun get the Remington , for out of the box accuracy get the Savage.

Can't wait to shoot it, and work up some hand loads. Will post a pic soon.
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Old 10-09-2004, 16:41   #15
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Hi Guys,

I started out with a Remington PSS LTR in 308, great rifle out of the box for about $675, I shot 3/4" MOA at 100yards (I'm sure it could have done better like 1/2" but I was using 175gr Black Hills Match which is more accurate at longer distances), I decided to sale it due to the recoil factor , I also shot my friend's custom Remington and noticed a small difference; I'm in it for the fun , not getting beat up. I started looking into the custom arena and decided to make an investment. After much research, I bought a GA Precision "Rock" rifle..it's pretty much a hand made rifle. I have not the chance to shoot it yet but will post a report when I do.

If you keep an eye on the sights enough, you should be able to pick a PSS for $650, Savages for about $400. For me, I have owned both and like the Rem better though the Savages are pretty good. Though I never really regret selling my Savage 10FP in 223 (I bought a custom PSS in 223) it was one of those rifles I don't mind owning either...
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Old 10-17-2004, 16:27   #16
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Originally posted by Sniper@Sep 10 2004, 05:18 AM
Can't go wrong with a Remington 700,... adjustable trigger,
Do ADL's have this? I have a BDL and a VLS. The VLS has a 26" Heavy barrel and it drives tacks. Love the Hornaday 168's.

Yup... my 700 VLS BDL Factory Bull .308 has an adjustable factory trigger.

After some playing around with it I have it set to about 2 and 1/2 pounds -- and it shoots sweet.

Right out of the box it was doing .3 inch - 3 shot groups and .5 inch 5 shot groups with 168 HPBT rounds.. (all I did initially was float the barrel by removing the "bump" in the wood under the barrel near the front of the forestock)

Now..after about 750 rounds fired, it shoots just as good (If the operator does his part of course )

My only mods are that I've free floated the barrel (there's a pressure point near the front end of the stock when you buy 'em) and shim bedded the action with aluminum tape on the recoil lug -- Of course it's scoped (They don't come with sights) so I added a 6-24X Bushnell Elite scope that performs very well. I also added a camo Mil style shooting sling and a Harris bipod.

It's my second BDL .308 "Varmint Special" in 20 years and I swear by 'em!

Here's a 3 shot group from 100 yards (The target is a one inch square with a half inch dot)
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Old 10-18-2004, 17:36   #17
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Now that is a tack driver! Nice group.
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Old 10-20-2004, 17:33   #18
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Well, Ive got a Remington 700 with a 24" bull barrel. Its a fine gun, shoots between 1/2" and 1" 5 round groups with 168 grain HPBTs (at 100 yards, of course). I assume I could do better, but that good enough for me. The only fault I can find with it is that the trigger is not as refined as I'd like in a bull barreled boltie. I beleive the barrel and action are bedded. Good enough for a 500 dollar gun with a Leupold scope, though.
Originally posted by Bret @ Aug 8 2004@ 08:55 PM
Remember I wasn’t looking to build a rifle that would take game at more than 100 to 150 yards max. Is it capable of taking game beyond that?
If I remember correctly, 3 MOA is well withing minute of deer. If you can get it within 2 MOA your good for about all the hunting shots you could reasonably take.
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Old 10-23-2004, 00:09   #19
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Hey everyone, I am adding another rifle or two to my Varmint collection. After boar hunting at night with my Tikka T3 Tactical and Mini-Opsrey night vision scope, I have decided that the .223 is not sufficient for boar. I know... I knew better, but still had some fun.
I really dig the Tikkas, but am looking at a Sako TRG-42 in the .338 Lapua Mag. Some really crazy specs and a bank busting price, but I am seriously considering it.
(For the software engineer with more money than sense....)

As for the .223, the fox I shot a few weeks ago with it was nearly blown in half. I hit him a little low and literally tore his stomach out. So for small game (I was after a coyote and instead got a very large fox) I am going to go with the Savage 17HMR Model 93R17-BVSS. I got to shoot one of these at the firing range the other day and was very impressed with the quality and the feel. At around $700 with scope ($350 for the gun another $350 for the scope). Not a bad deal in my opinion.

I think Savage has come a long way in producing better quality guns at a still affordable price. They are moving away from the "Wal-Mart Special" reputation they earned early on.

The Howa is a gun I shot (a good friend's) and really couldn't stand it. I don't know why. The Japanese are awesome at taking someone else's ideas and perfecting them in a way the original builder couldn't have imagined, but in the world of firearms (not TVs) they still seem a little behind the curve. My friend really digs it, but I really couldn't say I cared for it.

Remington's are nice. You can never go wrong with a 700. Reliable quality.

Look into the Sako 75 and the Tikka T3. I love them. And no, I don't work for either.
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Old 10-23-2004, 17:43   #20
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If the operator does his part of course
Very impressive group PCountyboy! That's one reason why I don't think the feds will try to take away our guns forcefully! B)
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Old 10-24-2004, 06:32   #21
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Originally posted by kravman4@Oct 23 2004, 04:43 PM
If the operator does his part of course
Very impressive group PCountyboy! That's one reason why I don't think the feds will try to take away our guns forcefully! B)
Thanks for the compliment Of course you can't see the ones where I had a great group going and then flinched

I believe you are correct in your assumption -- that's one major reason that the Japanese didn't try to invade (as stated by them after the war) Several million "Deer Hunters" were more feared than our military

BTW.. here's a 5 shot from the other day.. 165 gr .308 Remington accutips at 100 yards.. Just a shade over 3/4 inch center to center

Could have been better but I think I had a little too much coffee that morning
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Old 11-20-2004, 05:24   #22
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Now they just need to get a better stock on their rifles. Much to blocky for my taste, guess I'll have to "settle" for a remington.
There are so many stocks for the Savage that it boggles the mind. Me - I settled for the 10FP because it had the acctrigger, matte action and the button rifled heave barrel. The stock was synthetic but has the checkering and the dual piller bedding. No gunsmith needed here. Now if you want to add a McMillan stock to this - just add $400 dollars to the price of the weapon ($469). That is one reason that Savage kept the price down - was a cheaper stock. I added a Super Sniper Scope (10X) and was amazed at this accuracy of this weapon. I find it very fun to shoot from 100 yards to 500 yards with a 308 - and you can make fun of my Tasco SS - but if you do - find someone with one - for the price of $299 - I will match it with any Leo around the country. That scope is really a keeper for the money. I think it all settles down to what your going to be doing with the weapon. When I have to drag mine around, cross rocks, trees, brick ledges, ect., I think I will keep the cheaper stock. Would hate to do that to a $400 + stock. Besides if the barrel - action is bedded right - as Savage did with there 10FP-LE1 models - the stock would not make this unit shoot better. Got to love the 20" barrels. If you read alot of the shooting magazines anymore - the barrel is getting shorter and shorter. Testing my 20" against a 24" with 168 BTHP - we found the 20" dropped in speed by 32 fps. With that - I will loose the 4" for the ability of moving the weapon around in tight spaces. Got to remember - pushing that bullet out of the barrel takes gas pressure behind it - the friction of the bullet against the grooves of the barrel - start slowing the bullet down. You would reach a point where the friction of the barrel and the gas pressure behind the bullet would make it all equal - thus making the bullets speed drop. WOW making a short statement long - sorry for rambling. Savage - got to love them with the new AccuTrigger.
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Old 12-12-2004, 20:59   #23
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I have a Rem. 700VLS .308
Out of the box it shot under .75" with cheap Win. 150 sp
Trigger ajusted to 2.25lb., finished free floating barrel.
Shoot's under .5" with handloads @ 100yd.
1" @ 300yd. This is off a bipod
Scope is a Sheperd 3-10X40
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Old 02-17-2009, 00:51   #24
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Just Starting a Project on a 112 savage

hey everyone im new here but a lifelong gun lover and hunter just an old poor okie trying to find a lil info on building my savage into what i want im attaching a photo so as yall can see where im at thus far right now its in .223 but i would really like to change it to a .338 lapua ? is it possible ? and how expensive? i know the ammo is pretty high but im mainly trying to find out about barrels and would like to convert to detachable magazine as well having a hard time finding what im looking for any reccomendations?
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Old 02-24-2009, 22:16   #25
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Originally Posted by Tailgunner View Post
"Constant <3” at 100 yards."
I hope your "gunsmith" gave you a full refund for his lousy workmanship and all the parts he ruined.


"My next Mauser project will incorporate a Adams & Bennett Barrel...I’m really working toward having groupings of <1/2”."
Go with a #4 or #5 Shilen barrel, you won't have to work nearly as hard to get tight groups or remove anywhere near the amount of copper from it after your shooting is done.

The rifle I mentioned above (previous post) is on it's second Shilen (30-06, 1-12 BTW), I scrapped the 1st barrel after 7500 rounds because the groups (5 shot) had opened up to 1", before that it was consistantly sub .5 out past 500yd. The second (current) barrel is shooting in the .3 range with the leftover ammo from the first barrel. The last group I fired was at 200yd prone, off a wobbly post (ammo box turned on end) and measured 1/2 high x2" wide for 6 rounds.
One suggestion, as the other person said, if your really after 1/2" groups, forget the A & B barrel. Spend a little more money and get a quality barrel. The A & B barrels are sometimes OK, sometimes not. You do get what you pay for.
I think the Remington 700's are great rifles, but the Savage really is a better deal and their quality keeps getting better as Remingtons gone down. The reason I say this is that when the barrel gets shot out, it is easy to replace the barrel right at home. There are many quality pre chambered barrels available. You can also adjust the headspace and make them a little tighter if you want to. The other thing to do is get rid of the stamped recoil lug on the savage (and the Remington). Buy a quality recoil lug when changing barrels. The ability to change calibers is also a plus, not to mention you can go with a wildcat or improved cartridge just by having the barrel chambered for what ever round you want. If it is based on the same case as the bolt head is, you don't even have to change the bolt head. The other nice thing about the Savage is that you can change the firing pin protrusion yourself. The one thing to look at closely on any new rifle is the muzzle crown. I have seen defective crowns from many manufactures on brand new rifles.
To the guy who built the 3-4" group Mauser, I would suspect a bad muzzle crown, poor action bedding or barrel that needed to be free floated. As long as the gunsmith correctly chambered, threaded and headspaced the new barrel, one of the above most likely caused the lousy groups. A loose fitting scope, mount or defective scope can also cause bad groups and you may think its the rifle. Lots of things to check.
If your looking for a great gunsmith to work on your Remington or Savage rifle, contact Scott Null at www.savagegunsmithing.com.
Scott is a true master gunsmith, has reasonable prices and turn around time. If your looking for something different, Scott can do it if it can be done. He also has a custom line of his own savage stocks including a new ultra lightweight stock for hunting rifles. I'm a retired gunsmith and I know a master gunsmith when I see one. Not many left, but Scott is one. Scott works on any type of rifle or shotgun, including the highest quality double guns. If you have a Marlin 336 which gets the dreaded Marlin Jam or have a Bennelli shotgun that you want a faster cycle rate on, Scott can fix you up there also. These are not fly by night fixes, but real modifications that work 100%. The Savage Gunsmithing site was a site that I sold to Scott when I retired. He works on all firearms except class III.

Good shooting, John K

Last edited by dkac2; 02-24-2009 at 22:30.
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