shot placement effects

[collegeb]

My quesiton probably sounds stupid but i've grown up in the suburbs, never been around hunting. To be honest I'm not even looking into this to go hunt, i'm just interested in how it works so if you would, help me out.

I was looking at the pictures you all have posted and I noticed most of the deer and coyotes were shot above the front shoulders, does that kill them instantly or even quickly, or do you have to do some tracking? I'm thinking a shot placed there would not be as effective as one in the center mass or head, but I realize that those are probably places you dont want bullets for one reason or another...

[Letter D]

Lung heart shots are the way to go. I've never heard of a hunter aiming for the head on purpose. Tracking is usually easy with a massive blood trail from a good lung shot. They dont go to far; often you can see them drop from your stand after a few feet or so...

[Tailgunner]

The goal is to end the games life in a quick, clean and humane manner.
CNS (Central Nervious System) shots, while effective are not that easy to make. IOW small target with large potental for error
Heart/Lung shots are highly effective, and a reasonably large target (smaller potental for error) .
Breaking major bones prevents the game from running off, allowing for a clean followup shot (if needed). Fairly common first shot on dangerious game.
The shot your discribing offers the best of all 3 of the above, lungs all the way, lungs/spine if your a bit high, lungs/heart if your a bit low, lungs/bone if your a bit forward.

"Center mass" will get you guts, a suffering animal, a long tracking job and some seriously nasty meat.

[collegeb]

Okay I am seeing this. So the shot placement in the picture is probably hitting the spine and at least disabling the critters but I know death soon follows as autonomic signals cannot get to their destinations and lungs, etc. stop working.

Thanks everyone for the input!

[tri70]

I know I like the neck shots for where I deer hunt, close range with 50 yds and it will drop them quickly. I have hit one in the lung/heart area that ran for 40 yds with massive bleeding but it will tear up the shoulder some. I hit one with my 30-06 a few years ago that toppled over in his tracks, high shoulder and close to the backbone, enough hydrostatic shock impact to get the nervous system. The bullet did not pentrate both sides and did tear up more meat in the shoulder area again. I know a few guys that shoot very accurate bolts and aim for the neck or head. While hog hunting in TX, the best place to hit was the head for quick kill, they run even when hit with 270 Win.

[PirateMonkey]

I've been hunting a good bit. off and on with family and out with friends. Most of the aftermath that I have seen comes from 270, 30-30 and 30-06. never seen just a whole lot of meat destruction from a 270 but the entrance and exits stayed in the chest area on deer and elk. I shot a whitetail buck in texas back in 2007 at about 50 yards with a 30-06 loaded up with Federal Vital-Shock 165gr barnes TSX. I was pretty impressed with the results. Personal opinion from what I have seen, I would try to stay away from the spine because you run the risk of taking out some of the best meat (backstrap). The deer I shot with the 30-06 in 2007, the bullet went in about 2-3 inches behind the shoulder and about mid-level vertically in the chest at a slight angle. Bullet took out both lungs and took out the top half of the heart. On impact the deer jumped straight up on all fours arching it's back and managed to jump into the nearby brush about 10-15 feet away and dropped dead. Took us a bit to find it because the brush was so thick and it didn't leave a blood trail. All the blood was in the chest cavity. the exit wound wasn't big at all and little meat destruction considering the bullet exited the shoulder on the other side. You can see the exit would in the pic below.

I'm a big guy so the deer is dwarfed by me. East texas deer also aren't the monsters that they have in places like louisiana and kentucky etc where they have lots of hardwoods. This one was about 120lbs.

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/2673/dsc05397fm3.jpg

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/5637/dsc05403zq6.jpg

[beardenbc]

collegeb,
Generally hunters go for the area where the heart and lungs are (boiler room) like PirateMonkey did.

A bullet through the brain stem will kill a lot quicker, however it's a very precise shot that's easy to screw up, especially free handed with nothing to rest the rifle on. The boiler room shot means it absolutely 100% will NOT survive and probably won't make it very far from where it was standing when hit, and most everyone who is decent with their rifle can hit that at 100yds freehanded. It's the smart shot to make because we prefer not to take any chances.

A cool trick shot that enters the ear making a tag hole and then blows out the brain stem killing them before they hit the ground (I did that once:D) is great for bragging rights, but a shot that gives you a 100% guarantee of meat in the freezer is better.

[JASmith]

Here's a couple of good and, I believe, authoritative, discussions of shot placement:

http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=hunting.shot

http://hunting.about.com/od/deerbiggame/a/shotplacement.htm

[HighDesertWolf]

the best way is to break the brain or spine but if you arent confident enough to do that than break the shoulder with an adequate cartridge that will also take the heart and other vitals out too. if you are using an inadequate cartridge then double lung them and hope it dont run to the next county before it expires.

[Der Verge]

if you are using an inadequate cartridge then double lung them and hope it dont run to the next county before it expires.

This should read:
"If you are using an inadequate cartridge, go get a different rifle of sufficient chambering. Do this before you unethically mame an animal."

[HighDesertWolf]

This should read:
"If you are using an inadequate cartridge, go get a different rifle of sufficient chambering. Do this before you unethically mame an animal."

what I mean by inadequate, is if you are using a 243 win or something of lesser power you are gonna lack penetration and your best bet is too penetrate the thinnest part of the deers flesh which is the rib section and the organ you are gonna have the best chance at damaging is the lungs or you'd better hone your shooting skills and stick with head and neck shots. I personally would not use anything less than a 7mm-08 and I hate lung shots, takes too long to kill the animal. My most favored deer cartridges are the 308 and 30-06 which have plenty of juice to break the shoulder. I'm re-chambering a rifle for 338 federal and will someday soon be trying it out on deer. My guess is it will be a damn good deer stopper.

[DrewArtist]

I personally use a 30.06 150g for whitetails and unless the animal is within 50 yards, I always do shoulder shots. Drops them in their tracks. :) I hope to start hunting with a 6.8 SPC next season. :D

[HighDesertWolf]

I personally use a 30.06 150g for whitetails and unless the animal is within 50 yards, I always do shoulder shots. Drops them in their tracks. :) I hope to start hunting with a 6.8 SPC next season. :D


better start practicing for headshots:lol::lol:

[Tailgunner]

what I mean by inadequate, is if you are using a 243 win or something of lesser power you are gonna lack penetration and your best bet is too penetrate the thinnest part of the deers flesh which is the rib section and the organ you are gonna have the best chance at damaging is the lungs or you'd better hone your shooting skills and stick with head and neck shots. I personally would not use anything less than a 7mm-08 and I hate lung shots, takes too long to kill the animal. My most favored deer cartridges are the 308 and 30-06 which have plenty of juice to break the shoulder. I'm re-chambering a rifle for 338 federal and will someday soon be trying it out on deer. My guess is it will be a damn good deer stopper.

Humm
My neighbor has killed a couple semi loads of deer with a 22 long rifle, another couple pickup loads with a 22 Hornet, and maybe a dozen with his 7 Mag. Guess he needs a bigger gun, huh?
Another buddy likes his 22-250, but he keeps his shots to the near side of 440yd. Another guy that needs to get a bigger cannon?
BTW, neither of them have any more trouble with runners than anyone else (The first guy has most of his do the DRT thing). I've personaly seen deer go 150+ yds with a golf ball size hole in their heart, and 75yd+ with both front shoulders broken. Nice thing about knee deep snow and open fields, tracking is easy.

[DrewArtist]

better start practicing for headshots:lol::lol:

Oh I have done plenty of head shots. :P

[HighDesertWolf]

Humm
My neighbor has killed a couple semi loads of deer with a 22 long rifle, another couple pickup loads with a 22 Hornet, and maybe a dozen with his 7 Mag. Guess he needs a bigger gun, huh?
Another buddy likes his 22-250, but he keeps his shots to the near side of 440yd. Another guy that needs to get a bigger cannon?
BTW, neither of them have any more trouble with runners than anyone else (The first guy has most of his do the DRT thing). I've personaly seen deer go 150+ yds with a golf ball size hole in their heart, and 75yd+ with both front shoulders broken. Nice thing about knee deep snow and open fields, tracking is easy.


did you type all that in one breath?:lol::lol:

[Tailgunner]

HDF
My point is that it still comes down to shot placment, not raw power.
Oh, and the runners I mentioned, those were with broadside shots from a 30-06.

[HighDesertWolf]

HDF
My point is that it still comes down to shot placment, not raw power.
Oh, and the runners I mentioned, those were with broadside shots from a 30-06.


youre right any power level of a firearm will kill just others do it more efficiently. I like to knock a deers D@#$ in the dirt where it stands or at least within yards. If I do that I know I did my part of taking the animal cleanly and ethically.

[DrewArtist]

That is why a dead on shot on the shoulders of a whitetail will drop it in it's tracks and you won't risk a miss. A little farther back, you will still get a clean kill with less loss of meat, but the animal can run 40-150 yards before succumbing to the shot. Neck and head shots have a high risk of wounding and missing. I have seen buddy shoot a buck clean through the neck and watched it run off and survive the rest of the season. I have also seen a deer that had its lower jaw blown off because of wrong placement on a head shot. That deer was put down by me. I hunt in bluff country and dragging a deer out from the bottom of a bluff is no easy task, so I work hard on shot placement. Less dragging and tracking works for me. :)

[HighDesertWolf]

That is why a dead on shot on the shoulders of a whitetail will drop it in it's tracks and you won't risk a miss. A little farther back, you will still get a clean kill with less loss of meat, but the animal can run 40-150 yards before succumbing to the shot. Neck and head shots have a high risk of wounding and missing. I have seen buddy shoot a buck clean through the neck and watched it run off and survive the rest of the season. I have also seen a deer that had its lower jaw blown off because of wrong placement on a head shot. That deer was put down by me. I hunt in bluff country and dragging a deer out from the bottom of a bluff is no easy task, so I work hard on shot placement. Less dragging and tracking works for me. :)


I hunt in mountain type terrain and if a deer gets the chance to run they tend to make the dying leap of faith over a cliff and alot of these canyons theres no way to safely recover an animal. its much easier to dispatch it quickly.