View Full Version : Sarah Palin Alaska Gov. for VP
McCain's choice for VP will be Sarah Palin.
e80hydro
08-29-2008, 09:25
A soccer mom and a war hero VS two empty windbags. :lol:
A soccer mom
McCain's 72.
On the one hand, we have this transparent ploy to peel off the PUMAs, and on the other, we have McCain's pledge to always put country above his own personal ambition. <_<
How I miss the old John McCain, the John McCain of principle.
We now know plenty about Obama. We know he's a well-informed, capable leader. Though not the most experienced candidate in terms of time in office, he has done the work to become the nominee of his party. No one handed him this nomination; he won it against the odds. Unlike Palin, who, though most definitely against the odds, has simply been selected out of the blue. Few outside of Alaska have even heard of this governor of just two years. She's probably a fine governor, but how much will voters be able to find out about her in just two months? If McCain should be elected, and God forbid something should happen to him, what then? Remember, he's 72 now.
e80hydro
08-29-2008, 09:56
She's a lifetime member of the National Rifle Assoc.:)
mosin_man
08-29-2008, 09:58
Barack Hussien Obama has no experience whatsoever in politics. He waves his hands to a crowd who is swayed by "hope" and "change". This "hope" is that he will fight to make sure that our gun rights go down the drain and his "change" is the laws to make this country into a social state. Last night at my work, the people in our pressing and stamping area (majority are black) were listening to his speech. All they were shouting was "hope and change". I told them politely that he has no intentions to help this country, nor does Mccain. Both are the worst of them all. Also told them what this hope and change was and none of them could figure it out for themselves. They stood and looked at each other. No answer=more studying on your candidate or they will keep going on with something they can never figure out for themselves. i feel sorry for the country, it's morales, and it's countinued path down a spiraling drain.
DocWagon
08-29-2008, 10:34
McCain's 72.
On the one hand, we have this transparent ploy to peel off the PUMAs, and on the other, we have McCain's pledge to always put country above his own personal ambition. <_<
Average life expectancy lets him finish his term, and he's probably got decent healthcare.:rolleyes:
Whats a PUMA? I'm assuming we're not talking about the clothing company or the cats.
I think McCain has successfully demonstrated his ability to place the country's good over his personal well being. Has Barack done that? Has any other major political figure, actually?
As far as missing the old John McCain, the old one wouldn't be the Republican nominee. Remember, he tried that? Sometimes you have to play the game to get in a position to change it. That's a lesson I hadn't learned when I was younger and it really dampened my promotion prospects in the military.
Average life expectancy lets him finish his term, and he's probably got decent healthcare.:rolleyes:
The chances that he won't be able to work full time increase with age, that's just actuarial reality. He'd be 76 at the end of his first term.
Whats a PUMA?
The Hillary dead-enders. Sore losers. Stands for "Party Unity My [Arse-nal]."
I think McCain has successfully demonstrated his ability to place the country's good over his personal well being. I do too -- right up until he began this campaign.
Has Barack done that?
Yes, consistently. Starting as far back as his earliest career choices.
Has any other major political figure, actually? Of course. You're not that cynical, are you? Many politicians could make more money in the private sector for a lot less work. However, it must be said that nearly all of them are driven by ambition in addition to the desire to serve constituents and country.
As far as missing the old John McCain, the old one wouldn't be the Republican nominee. Remember, he tried that?
Of course. And think how much better off we'd be if that John McCain had been president the last eight years, rather than this W. Bush. But nooo, the GOP string-pullers had to have someone pliable, someone without the understanding to realize how harmful their schemes are to this country.
The great mystery is how John McCain has come to terms with himself, after conceding to them, knowing what he does about them. He somehow became willing to fling open the gates for the very gang of looters he once exposed and tried to root out.
Sometimes you have to play the game to get in a position to change it. That's a lesson I hadn't learned when I was younger and it really dampened my promotion prospects in the military.
McCain's played the game enough that he's become part of the exact problem he once tried to fix.
Obama's the real deal, an honest to God reformer, who really will work to change government for the better. McCain used to be. We can't know how successful Obama might be, but I do know that McCain, if elected, will allow four more years of the same crooks to wreak havoc that have already done so much damage during the last eight.
steve4102
08-29-2008, 11:27
A soccer mom and a war hero VS two empty windbags. :lol:
You forgot a "Hot" soccer mom.
mnottfam
08-29-2008, 11:31
McCain's 72.
On the one hand, we have this transparent ploy to peel off the PUMAs, and on the other, we have McCain's pledge to always put country above his own personal ambition. <_<
How I miss the old John McCain, the John McCain of principle.
We now know plenty about Obama. We know he's a well-informed, capable leader. Though not the most experienced candidate in terms of time in office, he has done the work to become the nominee of his party. No one handed him this nomination; he won it against the odds. Unlike Palin, who, though most definitely against the odds, has simply been selected out of the blue. Few outside of Alaska have even heard of this governor of just two years. She's probably a fine governor, but how much will voters be able to find out about her in just two months? If McCain should be elected, and God forbid something should happen to him, what then? Remember, he's 72 now.
SAY WHAT!?!?! Since we can't see you, we're assuming you're unable to say this about Palin with a straight face, then deny Mr. Obama's less than 2 years experience as a senator in different light, saying he's "well informed and capable..." Talk about a blind double-standard:blink:. After your saying this, do you REALLY think ANYBODY able to think for themselves will be able to take you seriously?<_<
Reminds me of the Bloom County series where Opus decides to become a farmer. Milo's reading out of a book titled something like, "How to be a Modern Farmer" telling him to be a successful modern farmer, he'd have to say the following 2 phrases back to back without cracking up:
"Get those flat-footed goomba's in Washington off my back"
"Hurry up with my Federal bail-out check"
Opus got all the way to "Hurry up," and cracked up...
Obama comes from one of the most corrupt cities in America and is indebted to that corrupt political machine. Don't tell us about Republican corruption. All politicians are corrupt and those from Chicago are among the most corrupt. McCain's timing and choice for VP is like a kick to the crotch of Hussein on the day that he should have been the talk of the town after last night's speech. Hey freesw, if you had meant PUMA as in Cougar, I would have said that Palin is my kind of cat!
Since we can't see you, we're assuming you're unable to say this about Palin with a straight face ...
What is it I've posted about Palin that you find so inexplicable?
Palin ... has simply been selected out of the blue. Few outside of Alaska have even heard of this governor of just two years. She's probably a fine governor, but how much will voters be able to find out about her in just two months?
I haven't posted anything negative about her; all I'm doing is pointing out two major differences between Obama and Palin. If McCain is elected, it is not unreasonable to want to know a great deal about his VP, since, in his mid-70s, there are thousands of conceivable reasons why he might find himself unable to keep up with the demands of the world's most difficult job.
On the one hand, we have Obama, who has been under nation-wide public, media and political scrutiny for the past four years, and who managed to defeat an opponent almost everyone thought was unbeatable. For better or worse, and a huge number of voters think better, we know Obama now.
And on the other hand, there's Palin, who most voters as of today know nothing about. The media has two months to find out what they can about her, and communicate this to the voters, and we then have to evaluate the significance of whatever they find and factor it in with what we already know about Obama, McCain, and Biden. Selecting Palin is certainly McCain's prerogative, of course, but considering all the possible candidates he could have selected, I find her selection ... interesting.
She's from Alaska, as far from DC as possible. McCain needs that distance from DC, since he's been in the Senate almost 3 decades. So that's great symbolism. Many Hillary Clinton voters believed Hillary should have been the nominee because of her ... experience. Not her gender, but her experience. McCain selects a woman for his VP based on ... experience?
The pattern is, symbolism over substance.
Palin, who, though most definitely against the odds, has simply been selected out of the blue. Few outside of Alaska have even heard of this governor of just two years. She's probably a fine governor, but how much will voters be able to find out about her in just two months? If McCain should be elected, and God forbid something should happen to him, what then? Remember, he's 72 now.
Saah Palin has infinitely more, and infinitely more effctive experience as an executive and as a public servant than Barak Obama who hasn't done much of anything. She has infinitely more executive experience than Joe Biden who has never done more than run his Senate committee.
Again, freesw, these are the facts, not the empty campaign oratory of barak Obama:
Wikipedia:
Early life
Palin was born Sarah Louise Heath in Sandpoint, Idaho, the daughter of Sarah (née Sheeran), a school secretary, and Charles R. Heath, a science teacher and track coach.[2][3] She has English, Irish, and German ancestry.[2] Her family moved to Alaska when she was an infant.[3] The Heaths were avid outdoors enthusiasts; Sarah and her father would sometimes wake at 3 a.m. to hunt moose before school, and the family regularly ran 5 km and 10 km races.[3]
At Wasilla High School in Wasilla, Alaska, Palin was the head of the school Fellowship of Christian Athletes.[3] She was the point guard and captain for the basketball team. She helped the team win the Alaska small-school championship in 1982, hitting a critical free throw in the last seconds, despite a stress fracture in her ankle.[3] She earned the nickname "Sarah Barracuda" because of her intense play,[3] and was the leader of team prayer before games.[3]
In 1984, after winning the Miss Wasilla contest earlier that year, Palin finished second in the Miss Alaska beauty pageant[4] which won her a scholarship to help pay her way through college.[3] In the Wasilla pageant, she played the flute and also won Miss Congeniality.
Palin holds a bachelor's degree in journalism from the University of Idaho where she also minored in politics. She married her high school sweetheart, Todd Palin, on August 29, 1988, and briefly worked as a sports reporter for local Anchorage television stations while also working as a commercial fisherman with her husband.[3]
Pre-gubernatorial political experience
Location of Wasilla, AlaskaPalin served two terms on the Wasilla City Council from 1992 to 1996. In 1996, she challenged and defeated the incumbent mayor, criticizing wasteful spending and high taxes.[3] The ex-mayor and sheriff tried to organize a recall campaign, but failed.[3] Palin kept her campaign promises by reducing her own salary, as well as reducing property taxes by 60%.[3] She ran for reelection against the former mayor in 1999, winning by an even larger margin.[3][5] Palin was also elected president of the Alaska Conference of Mayors.[6]
In 2002, Palin made an unsuccessful bid for Lieutenant Governor, coming in second to Loren Leman in a four-way race. After Frank Murkowski resigned from his long-held U.S. Senate seat in mid-term to become governor, Palin interviewed to be his possible successor. Instead, Murkowski appointed his daughter, then-Alaska State Representative Lisa Murkowski.[3]
Governor Murkowski appointed Palin Ethics Commissioner of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission,[7] where she served from 2003 to 2004 until resigning in protest over what she called the "lack of ethics" of fellow Alaskan Republican leaders, who ignored her whistleblowing complaints of legal violations and conflicts of interest.[8][3] After she resigned, she exposed the state Republican Party's chairman, Randy Ruedrich, one of her fellow Oil & Gas commissioners, who was accused of doing work for the party on public time, and supplying a lobbyist with a sensitive e-mail.[9] Palin filed formal complaints against both Ruedrich and former Alaska Attorney General Gregg Renkes, who both resigned; Ruedrich paid a record $12,000 fine.[3]
Governorship
In 2006, Palin, running on a clean-government campaign, executed an upset victory over then-Gov. Murkowski in the Republican gubernatorial primary.[3] Despite the lack of support from party leaders and being outspent by her Democratic opponent, she went on to win the general election in November 2006, defeating former Governor Tony Knowles.[3] Palin said in 2006 that education, public safety, and transportation would be three cornerstones of her administration.[10]
Palin visits a wounded soldier in Landstuhl, Germany, July 2007When elected, Palin became the first woman to be Alaska's governor, and the youngest governor in Alaskan history at 42 years of age upon taking office. Palin was also the first Alaskan governor born after Alaska achieved U.S. statehood. She was also the first Alaskan governor not to be inaugurated in Juneau, instead choosing to hold her inauguration ceremony in Fairbanks. She took office on December 4, 2006.
Highlights of Governor Palin's tenure include a successful push for an ethics bill, and also shelving pork-barrel projects supported by fellow Republicans. After federal funding for the Gravina Island Bridge project that had become a nationwide symbol of wasteful earmark spending was lost, Palin decided against filling the over $200 million gap with state money.[11][12] "Alaska needs to be self-sufficient, she says, instead of relying heavily on 'federal dollars,' as the state does today."[13]
She has challenged the state's Republican leaders, helping to launch a campaign by Lieutenant Governor Sean Parnell to unseat U.S. Congressman Don Young[14] and publicly challenging Senator Ted Stevens to come clean about the federal investigation into his financial dealings.[11]
In 2007, Palin had an approval rating often in the 90s.[13] A poll published by Hays Research on July 28, 2008 showed Palin's approval rating at 80%.[15]
[QUOTE=freesw;481735]McCain's 72.
On the one hand, we have this transparent ploy to peel off the PUMAs, and on the other, we have McCain's pledge to always put country above his own personal ambition. <_<
"How I miss the old John McCain, the John McCain of principle."
"We now know plenty about Obama. We know he's a well-informed, capable leader."
Obama, well informed? What standard do you use for this? The Brady Campaign's opinion?
Being an attractive and articulate candidate doesn't make him qualified to be president.
He is more anti-gun than Al Gore. Look at his voting record as a state legislator. Look at the speeches and quotes he made before becoming a candidate for president. Mr. Obama does not believe citizens should have the right to own handguns and semi-auto rifles and who knows what else (100% contrast to 99% of Perfect Union members).
He states "common sense gun laws". That is the code word for only allowing ownership of single-shot .22's (disassembled of course).
Remember the You-Tube debates when one guy asked the dems if they were going to protect his baby (referring to his AR-15)? Joe Biden lambasted the poor guy, stating in so many words that he was some kind of loony tune.
Mr. Obama fought against a law that would save the lives of babies born alive after botched abortions. He wanted to leave them in the corner until they died.
And yes he is "capable" also. He is capable of following the old democratic-socialist anti-American line of B.S. that he takes from his mentor Michael Moore.
:rolleyes:
magnomark
08-29-2008, 13:47
;)Has anyone yet here put togethter the parallels and alliances that might be in the works with Cindy McCain and Mrs.Palin?It could be quite a powerful duo if they join forces to help John run the country!Both of them seem to be very strong willed professional women.I won't say anything derogatory about Obama/Biden-that they can't say for themselves:blink:.
It also will be interesting to see if the RNC convension will be as big of a "dog and pony show"as the DNC convension:o.So far they have'nt been given the air time by the media except by three of the cracks on "the view"!<_<
Anybody in the Obama campaign bringing up the issue of experience is certainly calling the kettle black.
Well nobody has the experience to be the Prez or Vice Prez until they've been there.
Maybe she has the character and the proper work ethics to do the job. Wouldn't that be a hoot:o
Despite what some folks have said, character does matter.
Despite what some folks have said, character does matter.
Who said character doesn't matter?
I remember reading some comments about her last year on one of the other forums. Here are some articles listed at the time.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/013/851orcjq.asp
http://dwb.adn.com/news/alaska/story/9272374p-9187130c.html
http://dwb.adn.com/news/government/story/9274487p-9189289c.html
http://dwb.adn.com/news/alaska/story/9276406p-9191251c.html
BlenderWizard
08-29-2008, 19:11
I'm not sure how many here I speak of, but it sounds to me like freesw is attempting to, singlehandedly, propagandize some or most of the rest of us into considering Obama.
No thanks.
Hey, I'm just setting forth some evidence and points to consider.
If you want a third Bush term, then vote for the Republican ticket.
But given the Bush record, it makes a lot of sense to at least consider the alternatives to that.
e80hydro
08-29-2008, 19:24
No thanks freesw:(
No thanks freesw:(
No thanks to a third Bush term?
Good choice. :lol:
Seriously, though, I'm sure you're voting your conscience, as I will vote mine.
It would be good if any debate would be above board in the sense of not making claims and accusations without valid supporting evidence, but realistically I expect that to be held to only some of the time. I'll uphold my end, by trying to explain my point of view in terms of verifiable evidence and not fabricated rumors.
And with regard to the candidates themselves, would you prefer no one question claims such as that made by Sarah Palin today, when she claimed she had been against the "bridge to nowhere"? It isn't just their supporters that make dubious claims about the candidates, sometimes it's the candidates themselves.
McCain's VP pick was in her 5th year as Governor of Alaska when Obama was sworn in to do his 140 days as Senator.
Any jibber jabber about experience coming from that camp is laughable. This woman's record buries Obama.
Pathetic, that they can talk about her lack of experience...time to stop drinking the kool aid and start getting boned up on reality.
McCain's VP pick was in her 5th year as Governor of Alaska when Obama was sworn in to do his 140 days as Senator.
That's just entirely false.
Any jibber jabber about experience coming from that camp is laughable.
No offense, AZ_Mike, but your statement above is the jibber jabber.
This woman's record buries Obama.
Simply untrue. Think about it: John McCain selected Sarah Palin after only one or two meetings - that's astonishingly irresponsible to turn over the potential responsibility for the fate of the nation to someone he knows that little about.
Pathetic, that they can talk about her lack of experience...time to stop drinking the kool aid and start getting boned up on reality.
You ought to check your facts before posting before going on about "reality."
Where did you get that "5 year" governor's experience claim? I hope you don't get very much of the rest of your news from that source, because it's false.
stevekaw
08-29-2008, 20:02
Ms. Palin is under investigation for having her former brother-in-law, an Alaska State Trooper, fired after being embroiled in an ugly divorce from her sister.
She is married to a commerical fisherman, competed for Miss Alaska, had four kids and then decided to have a fifth even after pre-natal testing showed it to be affected by Down's Syndrome.
She has been the mayor of a small town in Alaska, and governor since late 2006 of a huge state with a tiny population. She has no foreign policy experience.
Her running mate has been treated for cancer, and has had who knows how many years of his lifespan reduced due to his time as a POW in North Vietnam.
Ms. Palin is an NRA member and been filmed firing AR-15s; doesn't seem to be very interested in Mini-14s.
Even if I was a Republican, I'd have to wonder why to vote for this ticket.
No way, no how, no McCain (and Palin)...
BlenderWizard
08-29-2008, 20:07
No thanks to a third Bush term?
Good choice. :lol:
Seriously, though, I'm sure you're voting your conscience, as I will vote mine.
It would be good if any debate would be above board in the sense of not making claims and accusations without valid supporting evidence, but realistically I expect that to be held to only some of the time. I'll uphold my end, by trying to explain my point of view in terms of verifiable evidence and not fabricated rumors.
And with regard to the candidates themselves, would you prefer no one question claims such as that made by Sarah Palin today, when she claimed she had been against the "bridge to nowhere"? It isn't just their supporters that make dubious claims about the candidates, sometimes it's the candidates themselves.
What I would prefer is a political thread that doesn't get polluted with a one page post from you every time you disagree with someone.
If you want a third Bush term, then vote for the Republican ticket.
But given the Bush record, it makes a lot of sense to at least consider the alternatives to that.Higher taxes, socialist/secular/progressive agenda. A Bush third term looks pretty good compared to that. Too bad Bush isn't running. Like I said before, you libs may eat that third term crap up, but most reasoned people just aren't buying it.
Regardless of what bHo says, this election is very much about him. While a large portion of the electorate likes the idea of something new and fresh and therefore leans toward the democrats, they just aren't convinced yet that bHo can handle the job. They know McCain can handle it, but since he's neither new nor fresh he gets the default position if the other guy can't, to quote HRC, "close the deal". So it still is and will continue to be all about him.
Let's just hope enough of that new car scent wears off before the election because the alternative of potentially having the dems controlling everything will likely bring untold erosion of our rights.
that's astonishingly irresponsible to turn over the potential responsibility for the fate of the nation to someone he knows that little about. And exactly how is this different from bHo is asking us to do?
The Rep will split the gun haters club votes with the new running mate!:D Be afraid gun haters!!! Be very afraid!!!:lol:
stevekaw
08-29-2008, 20:29
Shamelessly stolen from a poster on Gawker:
Richard (http://gawker.com/people/rlawson/)at 10:49 AM:
Duties of the Alaska Governor:
Maintain moose population, neutralize threat they willingly pose to humans;
Help Don Nichols out of the fishing net he done got tied up in on his bender last night, sheesh la rue;
Wait tables at Juneau's restaurant;
Stand outside the Pipeline Club in Valdez, AK with your arms crossed, shaking your head, warning any would-be Exxoners about the dangers of drinking and massive oil tanker piloting;
Can you gimme a jump? and;
Hot Chocolate Patrol!
:lol:
Shamelessly stolen from a poster on Gawker:
Richard (http://gawker.com/people/rlawson/)at 10:49 AM:
Duties of the Alaska Governor:
Maintain moose population, neutralize threat they willingly pose to humans;
Help Don Nichols out of the fishing net he done got tied up in on his bender last night, sheesh la rue;
Wait tables at Juneau's restaurant;
Stand outside the Pipeline Club in Valdez, AK with your arms crossed, shaking your head, warning any would-be Exxoners about the dangers of drinking and massive oil tanker piloting;
Can you gimme a jump? and;
Hot Chocolate Patrol!
:lol:
I think you forgot one, "Check the weather rock."
If its wet....raining.
If dry....sunny.
Iced over...snowing.:D
What I would prefer is a political thread that doesn't get polluted with a one page post from you every time you disagree with someone.
You're exaggerating, of course. But let's look at what you're really saying. In your first post, you claim I'm "singlehandedly" making a particular case. Now, if I'm to actually respond to the content of other posts, rather than just spout my opinion, then I'm going to need to sometimes respond to a number of different posts. And if I'm to do that with facts, and not just my opinions, then I need to post supporting evidence.
So, is it the length of posts that bothers you, or is it that I post evidence that counters a point of view you've grown accustomed to? If it's the former and not the latter, then I'll see what I can do to pare down the length and number of posts. But then you'll have to just take my word for some things, knowing that I could support them if called on to it.
If it's the latter, then post that, that you want to see just one side of the presidential issues posted on the politics forum.
Ms. Palin is under investigation for having her former brother-in-law, an Alaska State Trooper, fired after being embroiled in an ugly divorce from her sister.
She is married to a commerical fisherman, competed for Miss Alaska, had four kids and then decided to have a fifth even after pre-natal testing showed it to be affected by Down's Syndrome.
She has been the mayor of a small town in Alaska, and governor since late 2006 of a huge state with a tiny population. She has no foreign policy experience.
Her running mate has been treated for cancer, and has had who knows how many years of his lifespan reduced due to his time as a POW in North Vietnam.
Ms. Palin is an NRA member and been filmed firing AR-15s; doesn't seem to be very interested in Mini-14s.
Even if I was a Republican, I'd have to wonder why to vote for this ticket.
No way, no how, no McCain (and Palin)...
OH Stevekaw -
Plan on turning in your Mini-14 after Mr. Obama and Sara Brady decide that there is no positive reason you need to own a semi-auto-rifle. This privilege is only given to law enforcement.
The anti-gunners you love so much always use the phrase "Get the guns off the street"....... well I guess your Mini-14 will no longer be causing havoc on the street.
So pat yourself on the back when you cast your vote for Obama. He will most certainly protect the 2nd Amendment.
They waited to do this to reduce the bump that happens after the convention. Her appointment is plain old politics, seems to be the same old game though they claim a new "era". Same goes with Biden as a VP choice, it came about to quell the issues the beltway dems had with having Obama as a choice. Nothing will change, I truly doubt much will happen even with gun control. Politicians do not want to fully solve issues whether it be gun control, abortion, crime, or many of the problems that plague our country. If they did solve these things, what could they parade against?
........had four kids and then decided to have a fifth even after pre-natal testing showed it to be affected by Down's Syndrome.(emphasis mine)
So one of the things you hold against her is keeping a child that was diagnosed with a disability? Sounds like a giant promo for eugenics. I don't much about her, I have had zero reason to vote for either presidential candidate offered but that fact that she chose to rise above the mentality of convenience and keep and love a child that does not fit into a required "mold" shows me she has some honor. Children are not consumer items, to be thrown away at whim because of some selfish belief that perhaps they are broken or imperfect. To keep a child and raise that child with love, especially one that has been "kissed by God" and perhaps is closer to perfection in innocence than a so called "perfect" is showing true character. Toss that eugenics crap back to hell where it came from, it smacks too much of "the final solution".
collegeb
08-30-2008, 00:46
Gossman brings up several great points. First the comment by FreeSW about Palin's child was something I dont understand. Why would having a child with down syndrome be a reason not to vote for someone? Spot on comment about eugenics and culture gossman. Gossman makes another great point about politicians and change. I'm not even sure if its that they dont want to solve problems but just are incapable. Centralized planning never works out the way you intended. They also compromise and politic too much to be effective and these people also are not experts at the problems they hope to solve usually they know next to nothing when they are speaking about something...political speeches are not just vague rhetoric because that's what gets the votes out. They actually dont know what they are talking about!
Also I really dont know why any of you are arguing the finer points of McCain vs. Obama. Honestly, not much separates them as far as the direction they wish to take the country in. Both want a cap and trade scheme, both are okay with another AWB, neither will shrink government by even one employee, and of course both were going to speak at a national service conference (http://www.voicesforservice.org/)...forced "volunteering" for the gov't. Both are also for bailing out certain companies, and lets not forget subsidies...as I'm sure both owe quite a debt to some of their bigger financial backers including the military and contractors. Different sides of the same coin.
stevekaw
08-30-2008, 02:26
So one of the things you hold against her is keeping a child that was diagnosed with a disability? Sounds like a giant promo for eugenics. I don't much about her, I have had zero reason to vote for either presidential candidate offered but that fact that she chose to rise above the mentality of convenience and keep and love a child that does not fit into a required "mold" shows me she has some honor. Children are not consumer items, to be thrown away at whim because of some selfish belief that perhaps they are broken or imperfect. To keep a child and raise that child with love, especially one that has been "kissed by God" and perhaps is closer to perfection in innocence than a so called "perfect" is showing true character. Toss that eugenics crap back to hell where it came from, it smacks too much of "the final solution".
I guess my skepticism toward religious dogma and politicians shows here.
I freely admit that I cannot get inside the heads of Governor Palin and her husband, but consider the following points:
Either because they don't use birth control for religious reasons or because of an "accident", she became pregnant after previously having four other healthy children.
The incidence of Down's Syndrome and related birth defects is MUCH higher among older mothers like Ms. Palin (aged 44 at the time).
Irregardless of her staunch "pro-life" stance, Ms. Palin had the pre-natal testing done anyway, where the Down's Syndrome was detected.
The Palins decided to have the child. I like to think it was because they personally felt strongly it was the right thing to do for them. Maybe. Or maybe, they realized that terminating the pregnancy would effectively end her political career in the Republican Party.
Either way, the Palins made a choice that was conveniently in line with their political views. Earlier in the day, I kicked myself for being so cynical about her. But then I thought, she's a POLITICAN! 'Nuff said...
Why do some folks consider children with such abnormalities to be "kissed by God"? There is nothing romantic or wonderful about it. They are a tragic accident of nature or a result of unfortunate health or environmental factors (including substance abuse, enviromental toxins, etc.).
Of course, her and her Party's pro-life views would prevent other women in a similar predicament, who do not have their financial or family resources/advantages, from having any choice or say in the matter of having the child or not. I find the entire concept of "eugenics" to be totally obscene and repugnant. However, taking away the right of women to make the personal and difficult life choice of ending such abnormal pregnancies seems to be just as wrong and perverse from the opposite direction. This is an area where, within reason, government should not be interfering.
If elected, Governor Palin will be a "heartbeat away" from the Presidency. With a running mate of such advanced years and documented health issues, Senator McCain's choice seems even more opportunistic and (might I say it?) selfish. In his quest to pick up disaffected Hillary voters and shore up his right-wing base, Mr. McCain has made a characteristically odd choice.
Rudy Giuliani. Tom Ridge. Mitt Romney. That Minnesota Governor guy. Heck, Joe Lieberman. Kay Bailey Hutchinson. So many other more qualified choices! Senator McCain's short temper and maverick tendencies are again obvious here. A President dying in office is always a tragedy. With such an inexperienced and untested VP, in a time of war and increasing international tension (Iraq, Russia, North Korea, etc.), it could become a national disaster just waiting to happen.
No way, no how, no McCain! :samurai:
Who said character doesn't matter?
It was said quite often during the 90s':lol:
Take a chill pill brother,I wasn't referring to you;)
Obama's the real deal, an honest to God reformer, who really will work to change government for the better.
Obama's a machine politician from the most corrupt big city in the USA. He is solidly anti Second Amendment.
And a massive liar. I cannot understand how you could consider voting for someone so completely untrustworthy, and so opposed to our basic American rights.
LOTT: Obama's gun ban rhetoric
For it before being against it, now no longer for it
John R. Lott Jr.
Friday, August 29, 2008 Washington Times
.....The day the Supreme Court struck down Washington, D.C.'s gun ban, Mr. Obama claimed the court's decision merely ratified his own position. He told Fox News he had "said consistently that I believe that the Second Amendment is an individual right, and that was the essential decision that the Supreme Court came down on." So, has Mr. Obama consistently supported individuals' rights to own guns and opposed the D.C. handgun ban? Last November, Mr. Obama's campaign told the Chicago Tribune that "Obama believes the D.C. handgun law is constitutional." After the Illinois senator's statement supporting the Supreme Court striking down the ban, the campaign quickly disowned the Chicago Tribune quote as a staffer's "inartful attempt" to characterize his position.
Yet, Mr. Obama personally voiced support for the D.C. ban at other times. In February, he did this himself, not something that he could blame on a staffer.
ABC New's local Washington, D.C. anchor, Leon Harris, asked Mr. Obama: "One other issue that's of great importance here in the district as well is gun control ... but you support the D.C. handgun ban." Mr. Obama's simple response: "Right." When Mr. Harris said "And you've said that it's constitutional," Mr. Obama again says "right" and is clearly seen on tape nodding his head "yes."
A candidate questionnaire shows that Mr. Obama supported a ban on handguns in 1996. In 1998, he backed a ban on the sale of all semiautomatic guns (a ban that would encompass the vast majority of guns sold in the U.S.) In 2004, he advocated banning gun sales within five miles of a school or park (essentially a ban on all guns sold in almost all the states). Possibly, even more importantly, he served on the board of the Joyce Foundation, probably the largest private funder of anti-gun and pro-ban groups and research in the country.
The Obama campaign "flatly denied" the 1996 statement supporting a ban on handguns, blaming it instead on a staffer from his state senate race who they said had incorrectly filled out the candidate questionnaire. But the Politico obtained a copy of the statement and found Mr. Obama's own handwritten notes on it indicating that he had personally checked and corrected answers.
His newfound support for gun ownership raises serious questions; not only where he stands on the gun issue, but also how trustworthy he is. With new legal cases being filed against Chicago's gun ban over the last couple of weeks, will some reporter finally ask Mr. Obama why he has not only never spoken out against Chicago's ban, he actively supported it? The release of the new Democratic National Platform's discussion of "what [gun control] works in Chicago" implies Mr. Obama still supports Chicago's gun ban. The platform also wants to take away so-called "assault weapons." Also unclear is what his position means for who he would nominate to the Supreme Court. Mr. Obama's recent comments to Rick Warren, pastor of the evangelical Saddleback Church, showed he opposed nominating those members of the Supreme Court who voted that the Second Amendment is an individual right.
metaldemon7
08-30-2008, 07:14
To "freesw". I would rather have Bush III than Jimmy II. At least McCain and Palin, aren't people who would take away my rights. My son is in the gulf right now, and he is voting for our rights also.
jmsfmtex
08-30-2008, 10:49
To me the gun issue is not a one issue decision for my vote. My opinion, and it is only mine, is that if a person believes that law-abiding citizens who are responsible individuals and want to defend themselves, before the police arrive to make a report, and also holds individuals responsible for their actions then that person would also vote on other issues with the same resolve and thinking.
This is not a person who feels everything is life is a right and someone else should pay for it. In addition they believe that the individual should be held accountable for their actions. That person believes that if you work hard and get ahead you will not be punished.
I also look at the other issues but, for me, the gun issue is extremely important. This issue also shows how a person interprets the constitution and applies it to the citizens of our wonderful country.
So I say if you want to keep a firearm be it a relic, target, hunting, rifle, pistol... then you should vote for McCain. After he is in office then we need to apply pressure to keep him on track.
The other option is to loose your gun and many more rights given to us by our creator and written down in our Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
I wish that we had the convenience of a third party but, for now at least, it will only divide the vote and ruin our chances of freedom. Think about what a Democrat President, Democrat Senate and Democrat House would be like. If you can live with that then vote your conscience.
mnottfam
08-30-2008, 11:08
To me the gun issue is not a one issue decision for my vote. My opinion, and it is only mine, is that if a person believes that law-abiding citizens who are responsible individuals and want to defend themselves, before the police arrive to make a report, and also holds individuals responsible for their actions then that person would also vote on other issues with the same resolve and thinking.
This is not a person who feels everything is life is a right and someone else should pay for it. In addition they believe that the individual should be held accountable for their actions. That person believes that if you work hard and get ahead you will not be punished.
I also look at the other issues but, for me, the gun issue is extremely important. This issue also shows how a person interprets the constitution and applies it to the citizens of our wonderful country.
So I say if you want to keep a firearm be it a relic, target, hunting, rifle, pistol... then you should vote for McCain. After he is in office then we need to apply pressure to keep him on track.
The other option is to loose your gun and many more rights given to us by our creator and written down in our Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
I wish that we had the convenience of a third party but, for now at least, it will only divide the vote and ruin our chances of freedom. Think about what a Democrat President, Democrat Senate and Democrat House would be like. If you can live with that then vote your conscience.
It starts to sound cliche'd, I know, but without the second amendment, we have no other rights. The second amendment was what gives us the power to overthrow a tyrant government, though how many people in this country full of lazy, complacent whiners would actually take up those arms against big brother is questionable, it's still the simple bottom line:
No second amendment giving you, the individual, the power to defend your other rights, you have no other rights.
Gossman brings up several great points. First the comment by FreeSW about Palin's child was something I dont understand. ...
Please, that wasn't my comment, nor is it a comment I would make.
Just setting the record straight.
...... Senator McCain's choice seems even more opportunistic ....
I don't disagree with this, of course his choosing her was based on getting votes from those who are feeling disenfranchised. No different than Biden getting the nod to get the old boys feeling better about Obama.
As far as raising a child with a disability, I did it and have no regrets. Yes it is difficult, on relationships, finances, and people but too many people place themselves over others. The purity of the child especially with Downs Syndrome can be considered "kissed by God" not because God made him that way but that he allowed him to be that way. St. Macarius the Great once wrote "Evil assists good with a bad intention". We take what is considered a tragedy and use it to bring forth good, to allow one self to rise above their own desires, to live as was intended originally and to show others what true love and faith is all about. If you disagree because you don't believe in a God, or seen the downside of such things, or for whatever reason, I cannot nor do I intend to convince you of my personal feelings. Don't confuse me with pro-choice but it is up to each individual to decide what they are going to do, that is what free will is all about. Myself, it is about defending the defenseless, the same reason I carry a firearm. Not for me, but for others, for my family.
stevekaw
08-30-2008, 17:54
My respects to you, sir!
ronsmith2
08-30-2008, 18:18
Whats really sad about this time in our history is that Obama and McCain have risen to the top of their respective parties. You mean these 2 are the best this country has to offer? With that said, I'll still be supporting the GOP and my Constitutional Rights (or most of them anyway). Obama makes George Mcgovern look like a freakin conservative
Ron
Whats really sad about this time in our history is that Obama and McCain have risen to the top of their respective parties. You mean these 2 are the best this country has to offer? With that said, I'll still be supporting the GOP and my Constitutional Rights (or most of them anyway). Obama makes George Mcgovern look like a freakin conservative
Ron
This has struck me since Jimmy Carter. It isn't about the best, it is about who can further the puppet master's cause the best.
COBRADOC
09-01-2008, 10:40
An extract from a letter from an acquaintance who is a long time Alaskan resident:
"Sarah Palin is America's Margaret Thatcher"
I like that.
Carbine85
09-01-2008, 10:47
She just announced that her 17 year old daughter is pregnant. I wonder what the lefties will do with that?
COBRADOC
09-01-2008, 12:25
Palin just announced that her 17 year old daughter is pregnant. I wonder if her daughter knows Bill Clinton or John Edwards?
It would be damaging if she had got an abortion. Obama's got two daughters. I don't care how religious or not you are, you never know if your daughters will be in that situation at that age.
COBRADOC
09-01-2008, 13:32
Don't think that she will have an abortion, but I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a shotgun wedding.
What I suspect is that some Dem underling is going to stupidly jump on this hoping for some political hay befere he realizes that their presidential candidate is a bastard child and the upwards of 70% of the children born to black women are illigitimate.
collegeb
09-01-2008, 14:44
This is a great piece (http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/022589.html) about the slander directed towards Mrs. Palin by the left. I've become more aware of this type of thing after seeing the attacks on her based on the fact that she has a child with a disability it could be political, it could be because of a religious worldview. I guess because I work with people who have disabilities I was not aware of the line of thinking which holds that people who have disabilities are better off not existing. This is not something we have discussed in the ethics courses in my degree program. I was surprised to learn that a vast majority of the children with this disability are aborted. The ethics part of this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome) wikipedia article really summed up the argument going on at this forum as well as others, and even among personal friends. In my experience a majority of PWD's lead lives which they enjoy and their parents support them to the best of their abilities, but I recognize and respect that the parent's decision was personal and I do not business in mandating their decisions in either direction.
:usa::2guns:
KOS Hits Bottom, Digs
(http://dailykos.com/story/2008/8/30/121350/137/486/580223)
collegeb
09-01-2008, 15:59
The daughter of my neighbor was thought to be pregnant but doctors began to ask questions when she really never put on weight, even after months of being pregnant. She was referred to an OBGYN who said she was having a false pregnancy. This condition basically is where cells grow but they are not a fetus, and the body has most of the signs of being pregnant such as not having a period. This may be happening to Mrs. Palin.
This is concerning her last pregnancy. Not positive, but I thought she'd subsequently given birth. Alan Colmes recently opined on his website that a lack of prenatal care somehow contributed to the infant having Downs Syndrome (it does not, it's genetic), and that entry was rapidly removed from the website. Cached versions are in circulation though. Dirtbag.
Palin is getting slimed for having an active lifestyle. Rather hypocritical I think. If she wasn't jogging in Alaska but bicycling in Berkley, nobody's say anything about that.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/01/obama.palin/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
COBRADOC
09-01-2008, 17:49
This is concerning her last pregnancy. Not positive, but I thought she'd subsequently given birth. Alan Colmes recently opined on his website that a lack of prenatal care somehow contributed to the infant having Downs Syndrome (it does not, it's genetic), and that entry was rapidly removed from the website. Cached versions are in circulation though. Dirtbag.
Palin is getting slimed for having an active lifestyle. Rather hypocritical I think. If she wasn't jogging in Alaska but bicycling in Berkley, nobody's say anything about that.
+1 on both points.
stevekaw
09-01-2008, 18:27
Palin is getting slimed for having an active lifestyle. Rather hypocritical I think. If she wasn't jogging in Alaska but bicycling in Berkley, nobody's say anything about that.
Active lifestyle? I really haven't heard any criticism of Governor Palin's hunting, shooting, snowmobiling, basketball-playing, beauty pagent-going, etc.; unless you consider "active" to be:
Supporting the "bridge to nowhere" and then not supporting it;
Firing an Alaska state official for not firing the Alaska State Trooper who had the audacity to divorce her sister;
Advocating abstinence as the primary sex education for kids and watching it fail in her own family;
Expressing satisfaction with her daughter's teen pregnancy and impending marriage; and
Naming a daughter "Bristol" and sons named "Track" and "Trig".
Stay tuned. This family is going to be more entertaining than the the Spears!
:o
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837862,00.html
Will all the criminals in office now, do they want the micro scope pointed at them? Good for Obama to say they are off limits. Everybody wants a punching bad to throw up on the front page. What bones will pop out of your closet? Sounds like a great community to live in Alaska.;)
handirifle
09-01-2008, 19:47
You know these threads would be funny if they were not so scarry.
I am amazed at the rhetoric people believe about Obama. Opra claiming her life was changed? Give me a break, it was a freakin speech lady, yes he's a black man running for president, so what?
Has he improved peoples lives in the world?
This guy changes his comments like I change pants. One day he's for gun control, the next it's our "second amendment right". One day he's dead set against any restrictions on abortion, the next day "it's above his pay grade". Well fella, there isn't a pay grade higher in this nation. God doesn't take, need or want our money. He knows what's right and waits to see how we handle the truth, it's called "choice".
My wife and I finally got a chance to see the debates in Saddleback church. Obama had "some" good answers, but EVERY answer was a political one, every one. Well let me explain what evil is and where it is.
We know what eveil is, the question is what would YOU do with it. He finally got around to saying, rather timidly I might add, "I would confront it", yea, how?
McCains answers were clear, concise and to the point, with the notable exception of the "what is rich question." Neither candidate had a clue on that one.
Do I hold it against either of them for being rich, nope not a bit, good for them. Obama's camp is ****ed caused McCain is richer, I guess. Good greif, their both millionaires.
As for Good ole Jimmy Carter,,,,,that man need to crawl back under a bag of peanuts and SHUT UP. He was the worst president in the last 50 years, hands down the winner.
Say what you want about GWB but we do not have 16-18% interest rates, we do not have botched military plans, ie the horrific failure of the "rescue" of the embassy hostages.
Carter did NOTHING right for his 4 years and yet how he has the nerve to criticize ANY other president, is beyond me.
And his latest comment of stupidity about McCain "exploiting" his time in the POW camp? good thing it wasn't up to Jimmy to get him out.
John is a long way from perfect, but I do not believe for one minute, Obama can carry out half of the hot air he vented in his speech.
OK, we're going to provide everyone in the country with "affordable" health care, ka ching goes the register, we're going to stimulate the economy by providing thousands of new jobs, via government programs, ka-ching, we're going to cut the taxes of 95% of american workers. I think HE has been studying the "fuzzy math" GW was accused of.
We're going to be off foreign oil in 10 years, how? we're going to do it by providing BILLIONS as incentives for research, we're going to cut the taxes of 95% of workers...anyone else see a pattern here?
What was his comment earlier, "those things are not free", we're going to cut the taxes of 95% of the workers.
It's a good thing he has good teeth, all those lies have to be doing SOME damage.
I listened to one politician talk about he beilieved in "sensible gun control" and good ole Arnie meant what he said. Anything that sounds sensible to the left HAS to be sensible, like banning all firearms that do not imprint on the fired casings. Or banning guns that are not "smart" guns and don't know who their owner is. Some dogs don't know that and even they attack their owners sometimes.
Or like banning the 50 BMG because it's too powerful for civilians and it could take out an airliner. Yea well, ya gotta hit the stupid thing first and I really doubt a single shot is gonna be successful at it.
Arnie is getting to be about like that last Austrian that told us removing guns from the streets would make us safer, circa 1939.
Yoiu folks that believe Obama, go ahead and vote, cause your life will truely be "changed", trust me. he is a change you can believe in. I just do not want it.
The reference was to a specific criticism of her and her running. Read the Kos diary again.
TacticalGenius
09-01-2008, 20:29
Active lifestyle? I really haven't heard any criticism of Governor Palin's hunting, shooting, snowmobiling, basketball-playing, beauty pagent-going, etc.; unless you consider "active" to be:
Supporting the "bridge to nowhere" and then not supporting it;
Firing an Alaska state official for not firing the Alaska State Trooper who had the audacity to divorce her sister;
Advocating abstinence as the primary sex education for kids and watching it fail in her own family;
Expressing satisfaction with her daughter's teen pregnancy and impending marriage; and
Naming a daughter "Bristol" and son named "Track" and "Trig".
Stay tuned. This family is going to be more entertaining than the the Spears!
:o
It's not the first time a politician has supported something and then changed their minds. (Obama for Chicago's unconstitutional gun laws initially, now not for them...hmmmmm.) I'm not too read up on the "bridge to nowhere" but I suspect it was sold to the state as the greatest thing since sliced bread and then turned out there was frivolous spending, the bridge was over budget, underfunded and all that stuff...Strangely similar to many Dems in the senate and congress (as well as Reps) when fed the lines about Iraq. "Oh yes, bomb Saddam to hell!" Two years later. "Get our boys out of there, oh boo hoo!" I've been there twice and will go again if asked, we leave when WE (the soldiers) say the job is done.
The family/state trooper matter was wrong in how it was handled, but I am sure there is more to the story, as there always is that isn't making it into the media because it doesn't really skew things the way the libs want it to be skewed.
As for the advocating abstinence comment... Even the best birth control is only effective 99% of the time.:D And you can't/shouldn't always be the overbearing mother, especially when you are oh, say, running the entire state!
Oh my god! A mother expressing satisfaction that her daughter be married, regardless of circumstances! This woman is crazy, she should be thrown in a loony bin! My mom would be ****ed if I were to get married, regardless of circumstances, let me tell you. Could it be she is publicly saying that she is supporting her daughter while she is in this situation and emotionally vulnerabel. If anything, it shows family unity. Hardly the thing I want to see in the whit house...
Who gives a hoot what she names her kids. That wasn't in the ballot. That was oh, what's the phrase.......A FAMILY MATTER! And as such, nobodies business but hers and her husbands!
The last two are between her and her family and have no bearing on how she would be able to handle the VP position. The only reason that stuff is coming in to the spotlight is because she is so new to the spotlight and the press is trying to get anything they can on her, especially if its pseudo negative. The press seems to be handling her biography like I would handle a last minute book report. A dab of this and a dab of that, cover some big points and put a bunch of B.S. in there just to get it in on time for a passing grade. Only now it concerns the potential VP of the United States, not a C+. Personal matters aren't national matters and should be left out of the spotlight. Lets actually try to focus on her resume, not hearsay. Everything against Obamas campaign that I have read deals with their resume, not their personal life (unless I missed something). Most stuff against McCain is also resume related. Lets try to use those points as a means for forecasting the candidates abilities to run the country in the next four years.
TG
Far as I'm concerned, Palin's got my vote for having the moxie to take on Ted Stevens over that bridge fiasco. The trooper thing bothers me, but I suspect there is more to it than is being reported. As usual.
Far as I'm concerned, Palin's got my vote for having the moxie to take on Ted Stevens over that bridge fiasco. The trooper thing bothers me, but I suspect there is more to it than is being reported. As usual.
My reply to all political opinions with be like Ralph from the Simpson's. "I like hamburgers"
Obama for Chicago's unconstitutional gun laws initially, now not for them...hmmmm
Better than the other way around.
Far as I'm concerned, Palin's got my vote for having the moxie to take on Ted Stevens over that bridge fiasco.
The finger in the wind kind of moxie. <_<
http://www.kansascity.com/445/story/775808.html
Gov. Sarah Palin was for the infamous "Bridge to Nowhere" before she was against it, a change of position the GOP vice presidential running mate ignored Saturday when she bragged about telling Congress "thanks but no thanks" to the pork barrel project.
Federal funds for the $398 million bridge were tacked into an appropriations bill as an earmark, the practice by which members of Congress get special funding for pet projects. Sen. John McCain opposes earmarks as an avenue for pork barrel and special interest spending.
After McCain introduced her as his choice for vice president on the Republican ticket, Palin talked about her reform credentials, and said she stopped the bridge project as part of an effort to end of earmarking in appropriations bills.
The Alaska bridge pushed by Sen. Ted Stevens became a symbol of congressional misuse of tax dollars. It would have connected the town of Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport on it. Ferries and water taxis serve the island now.
"I have championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress," Palin said in her vice presidential campaign debut in Dayton, Ohio. "In fact, I told Congress, I told Congress 'thanks but no thanks' on that Bridge to Nowhere."
"If our state wanted a bridge, I said we'd build it ourselves," she said.
She didn't talk that way when she was running for governor. The Anchorage Daily News quoted her on Oct. 22, 2006, as saying yes, she would continue state funding for the bridge because she wanted swift action on infrastructure projects. "The window is now while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist," she said.
McCain has used the Alaska bridge as a case study in what's wrong with the way Congress spends money. After the Ketchikan bridge became an issue and an object of ridicule, Congress dropped the earmark.
Andrew Halcro ran against Palin in the 2006 governor's race, receiving the third most voters, and remains a critic. In his blog and Web site, Halcro raised the bridge issue, saying Palin changed her position for political purposes.
Political flip-flops are a mainstay of presidential politics. One of the most famous examples is John Kerry's explanation for opposing and then favoring an $87 billion Iraq funding bill during the 2004 presidential campaign. "I actually did vote for the $87 billion," he said, "before I voted against it."
According to the Ketchikan Daily News, the bridge issue came up on Sept. 20, 2006, during an appearance the gubernatorial candidates made in Ketchikan.
"The money that's been appropriated for the project, it should remain available for a link, an access process as we continue to evaluate the scope and just how best to just get this done," the newspaper quoted Palin as saying. "This link is a commitment to help Ketchikan expand its access, to help this community prosper."
The newspaper also reported that she said "I think we're going to make a good team as we progress that bridge project."
The bridge issue dates back several years. Former Republican Gov. Frank Murkowski, who had been an Alaska senator, wanted it built. Stevens and Rep. Don Young, pushed the project through Congress, securing $452 million in a federal transportation bill for two bridges - the one in Ketchikan and another in Anchorage.
With criticism over earmarks increasing, Congress stripped the provision from the bill, requiring instead that some of the money be used for an airport. Alaska eventually received about half the money. Murkowski and the Legislature redirected all of the money but $60 million in 2006, and Palin has left the remainder untouched to eventually be used to improve access to the island, Palin spokeswoman Sharon Leighow said Sunday.
Ketchikan Mayor Bob Weinstein, who campaigned for Palin's Democratic opponent, said he was there at the candidate forum when "she was asked about the bridge and she supported it."
Bill McAllister, Palin's press secretary, questioned how she could have used the scuttled bridge project to promote herself in national politics when she got there a week ago as McCain's unexpected choice for the ticket. "How could she have foreseen that she would be at this point now? Everybody is surprised by this development," McAllister said.
McAllister, who covered the 2006 campaign as a TV reporter, said Palin was lukewarm about the bridge as a candidate and cooled on it as governor.
"Of course when you become governor things come into much sharper focus than when you are a candidate," he said. "Then she is forced to pay very close attention to the fiscal realities of it."
Rugermann
09-01-2008, 22:42
With all due respect freesw------------
Obama and Biden have had it. I am telling ya buddy McCain/Palin WILL BE the next President/Vice President of the United States.
Obama's ratings are already starting to fall!!!!!!!!
Jeff
handirifle
09-01-2008, 22:45
Well, for those that vote for him, Obama that is, just be ready to embrace the "change" when it comes, remember unlike the morons in New Orleans that stayed through a hurricane, then blamed the world for not rescuing them in time, don't cry to us when his minions come to confiscate your rifles.
After all, you want "change".
I'd like to remind everyone those wise words about counting your chickens. This is not an NBA or NFL playoff game.
Obama and Biden have had it. I am telling ya buddy McCain/Palin WILL BE the next President/Vice President of the United States.
Obama's ratings are already starting to fall!!!!!!!!
How McCain's reckless gamble is doing so far:
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003844485
Surprise? First Two National Polls Find Palin Gains LESS Support from Women
By Greg Mitchell
Published: August 30, 2008 1:35 PM ET
NEW YORK The first national polls on John McCain's pick of Sarah Palin yesterday came out today from Rasmussen and Gallup -- and contrary to what the GOP probably hoped, she scored less well with women than men.
Here's a finding from Gallup: Among Democratic women -- including those who may be disappointed that Hillary Clinton did not win the Democratic nomination -- 9% say Palin makes them more likely to support McCain, 15% less likely.
From Rasmussen: Some 38% of men said they were more likely to vote for McCain now, but only 32% of women. By a narrow 41% to 35% margin, men said she was not ready to be president -- but women soundly rejected her, 48% to 25%.
Only 9% of Obama supporters said they might be more likely to vote for McCain.
Overall, voters expressed a favorable impression of her by a 53/26 margin, but there was a severe gender gap on this: Men embraced her at 58% to 23%, while for women it was 48/30.
And by a 29/44 margin, men and women together, they do not believe that she is ready to be President.
As for voters not affiliated with either major party, 37% are more likely to vote for McCain and 28% less likely to do so.
Gallup is now out with its own initial poll. It also shows women with a slightly less favorable view of Palin. An excerpt from USA Today:
There is wide uncertainty about whether she's qualified to be president. In the poll, taken Friday, 39% say she is ready to serve as president if needed, 33% say she isn't and 29% have no opinion.
That's the lowest vote of confidence in a running mate since the elder George Bush chose then-Indiana senator Dan Quayle to join his ticket in 1988. In comparison, Delaware Sen. Joe Biden was seen as qualified by 57%-18% after Democrat Barack Obama chose him as a running mate last week.....
Among all those surveyed, 35% call Obama's speech at Invesco Field at Mile High Stadium Thursday night excellent, 23% good, 15% "just OK," 3% poor and 4% "terrible." Sixteen percent say they didn't see it and 14% have no opinion. That's higher than the ratings for acceptance speeches by President Bush and Democrat John Kerry in 2004, by Bush and Democrat Al Gore in 2000 and by Republican Bob Dole in 1996.
Asked about the Democratic convention's impact, 43% say it makes them more likely to vote for Obama, 29% less likely. Nineteen percent say it won't make a difference.
You really want to know what Hillary supporters think of Palin?
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=26109
You really want to know what Hillary supporters think of Palin?
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=26109
:lol:
You've never seen a front site?
Harmless, really. Not like the campaign is going to get, now that the Republicans are really desperate:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/mccain-hires-go.html
McCain Hires GOP Operative Who Helped Smear Him in South Carolina in 2000
September 01, 2008 8:46 PM
Former officials of Sen. John McCain's 2000 campaign expressed shock and disbelief Monday to learn than the GOP presidential nominee had hired South Carolina political consultant Tucker Eskew.
Eskew, along with Warren Tompkins and Neal Rhodes, were key members of then-Gov. George W. Bush's South Carolina team during the 2000 primaries. McCain and his team long held Bush, Tompkins, Rhodes and Eskew responsible for the various smears against McCain and his family in the Palmetto state during that contentious contest.
Eskew was brought on board the McCain campaign, it was announced Monday, to help prepare Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin for her role as McCain running mate. Eskew will help Palin prepare for her Wednesday night acceptance speech at the GOP convention and for her stump speech as she hits the road, brief her on policy matters, and help her handle the media scrutiny a lifetime in Alaska does not necessarily prepare one for.
...
Eskew’s talent notwithstanding, he was loathed by McCain’s 2000 campaign team. ...
...
When then-Gov. Bush called upon Eskew, Tompkins and Rhodes to help him during the Florida recount, a senior McCain adviser told me that “when the going gets tough for Governor Bush, he turns to the darker side of our party. We saw that in South Carolina, and we see that today."
Eight years later, with a tough fight of his own, McCain has turned to one of the same men. Asked if the McCain campaign would have a comment about hiring one of the South Carolina strategists the senator and his 2000 campaign team once held responsible for smears against him, McCain 2008 spokesman Brian Rogers emailed, "No."
-------------------------
Just one more way in which McCain is becoming just like G. W. Bush.
moonie42
09-02-2008, 06:10
I think it's kind of funny to read threads like this...you get supporters from both sides praising their choice of candidate while vilifying the opposition. Just remember: a politician is a politician, regardless of party. You can't be in the running for president or VP unless you've played the politcal game, and played it reasonably well. Unfortunately today that means waffling/reversing positions, taking and owing favors, and facing rediculous levels of personal scrutiny. Let's get down to brass tacks: a politician's job is to get elected. Policitians will do what they think they need to do to get there...there's a lot of jockeying that occurs. Our job as the voting population is to look past the polical lunacy, and try to determine who the "best" candidate is based not on party affiliation or official platform (because in general, those platforms are pretty weak), but upon voting record, past actions, and a little bit of faith that they want to do the right thing for the country.
My $0.02
stevekaw
09-02-2008, 07:29
From Gawker:
Everyone Knew Palin Gal Pregnant Except Sad McCain [Working 'with' The Press] (http://feeds.gawker.com/~r/gawker/full/~3/381109146/everyone-knew-palin-gal-pregnant-except-sad-mccain)
By Ryan Tate on Time Magazine
John McCain was likely clueless his running mate Sarah Palin had an underage daughter with a love child — or at least that's what the Times is implying this morning (http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/02/america/02vetting.php). Meanwhile it looks like everyone from Time magazine to the National Enquirer to the entire population of Wasilla, Alaska was hip to the scandalous pregnancy. How could McCain have been left in the dark? It seems the presumptive Republican presidential nominee settled on Palin at the last minute, after figuring out that social conservatives might use the convention to nuke his top two choices, pseudo-Democratic Senator Joe Lieberman and former Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Ridge, both pro-choice. Republican operatives vetted Palin for four or five days, one of them told the Times anonymously, but it sounds like even that's a reach:
"They didn't speak to anyone in the Legislature, they didn't speak to anyone in the business community," said Lyda Green, the State Senate president, who lives in Wasilla, where Palin served as mayor.
Representative Gail Phillips, a Republican and former speaker of the State House, said the widespread surprise in Alaska when Palin was named to the ticket made her wonder how intensively the McCain campaign had vetted her.
"I started calling around and asking, and I have not been able to find one person that was called," Phillips said. "I called 30 to 40 people...
The current mayor of Wasilla, Dianne Keller, said she had not heard of any efforts to look into Palin's background. And Randy Ruedrich, the state Republican Party chairman, said he knew nothing of any vetting that had been conducted.
Also, McCain's people won't say specifically when or how they found out about the pregnancy of Palin's 17-year-old daughter. Maybe because they didn't really know in advance!
They probably should have just called any random house in Wasilla, population 10,000, because the love child was an "open secret (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/republican_race/2008/09/01/2008-09-01_bristol_palins_pregnancy_was_an_open_sec.html)" there, according to the Daily News.
The National Enquirer was chasing the story hard 36 hours before McCain addressed the situation, Radar reported (http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2008/09/palin-daughters-babydaddy-some-dude-named-levi-reports-enqui.php).
And maybe (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/09/obama_on_palin_pregnancy.html#comment-559213)Time (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/09/obama_on_palin_pregnancy.html#comment-559213) knew (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/09/obama_on_palin_pregnancy.html#comment-559213), too, because just last week, before Palin was officially nominated but while she was being vetted, it asked McCain (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1836869,00.html) this question:
...And the question I got in the e-mail was: What does John McCain think of premarital sex? What do you think about that? What are your thoughts?
I don't have any response to that type of question. I'm running for President of the United States; write what you want.
McCain was smart enough not to fall into that little trap.
He was also lucky enough that the Palin news broke right when everyone was distracted by Hurricane Gustav in Florida and early enough in his presidential campaign that it's likely to be a non-issue by the time of the election. Some observers think it might even end up being a net positive (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13062.html) for McCain.
Meanwhile, the hugely unpopular president's scheduled speech at McCain's coronation has been swept aside by the hurricane. And the candidate gets to go down to Louisiana and maybe make people forget about the big birthday party he had (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/images/20050829-5_p082905pm-0125-515h.html) the last time New Orleans was hit by a hurricane.
Now all McCain has to do is convince everyone Palin isn't a secessionist (http://suzieqq.wordpress.com/2008/09/01/more-palin-questions-alaska-seceding/) and make them forget she helped start a group (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/01/palin_was_a_director_of_embatt.html) hilariously titled "Ted Stevens Excellence In Public Service Inc.," after the Alaskan who became "the first sitting U.S. senator to face criminal charges in 15 years." Should be a fun convention!
:lol:
You've never seen a front site?
or at least you hope it is and I really don't care if you come up with some lefty who says it is. I checked the domain registration and both the domain and host support several other pro-hillary sites. Lots of PO'd PUMAs involved.
clintondems.com (http://www.clintondems.com/)
hireheels.com (http://www.hireheels.com/)
hillarysupporters.com (http://www.hillarysupporters.com/)
clintons4mccain.com (http://www.clintons4mccain.com/)
riverdaughter (http://www.riverdaughter.wordpress.com/)
hillaryclintonforum.net (http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/)
womenforfairpolitics.com (http://www.womenforfairpolitics.com/)
donedems.com (http://www.donedems.com/)
pumaparty.com (http://www.pumaparty.com/)
savagepolitics (http://savagepolitics.com/)
hillarygrassrootscampaign.com (http://www.hillarygrassrootscampaign.com/)
pumapac.org (http://blog.pumapac.org/)
millionwomenmarch.blogspot.com (http://millionwomenmarch.blogspot.com/)
That's a lot of effort for front sites.
While the majority of Hillary supporters wouldn't vote republican even with an all-female ticket, there are enough PUMAs, older conservative democrats and independents/undecideds who certainly would vote republican to make this race even closer.
In a normal election year, I contend you can get more votes by energizing your base than swaying undecideds. Unless she royally blows it, the base is certainly more energized. But the PO'd Hillary supporters will certainly make this more interesting to watch.
If your family member is going to insert him or herself into the debate like Michelle Obama, then that person has to accept the fact that they are now a target.
You cannot enter into the debate, voice an opinion, shill for a candidate etc then sit back and say "I am a family member, I am not running for office, therefore I should not be targeted".
So if Obama is sincere about what he says (he is not) then he has to understand that attacking someone's 17 year old daughter who is not known to anyone in politics is not the same thing as going after his big mouth wife.
That said, I heard the other day some liberals are worrying about Palin's ability to take care of her children due to the demands of being VP.
Is that serious?
Since when do liberals care about parents taking care of their own kids?
This is a group that supports abortion on demand, even after birth.
This is the same group that made a claim a few years back that grandparents were NOT good choices to babysit children while mom and dad go to work because grandparents were "not properly trained" to do so. They said that putting your children in daycare is a much better choice because the staff there is trained.
This is the same group that advocates all day pre-school and kindergarden etc.
I understand that liberals are adept hypocrites, but this stuff is laughable.
stevekaw
09-02-2008, 10:32
That said, I heard the other day some liberals are worrying about Palin's ability to take care of her children due to the demands of being VP.
Is that serious?
Since when do liberals care about parents taking care of their own kids?
This is where so much of the ill-feeling occurs, not only on this board, but everywhere these days. People who are not "liberal" make gross assumptions about those who they categorize as "liberals", and too many folks who are not "conservative" have the opposite stereotype about those they paint as "conservative". It's unfair to both sides...
On another aspect of the controversy over Bristol Palin's pregnancy, the baby's father would not seem to be the ideal son-in-law:
Palin Daughter Baby Daddy -- "Don't Want Kids"
Posted Sep 2nd 2008 6:41AM by TMZ Staff (http://www.tmz.com/bloggers/tmz-staff/)
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.tmz.com/media/2008/09/picture-66.pngWho knew there were rednecks in Alaska?
Apparently there are, according to Levi Johnston, the guy who impregnated the daughter of GOP veep nominee Sarah Palin. He says so himself, on his MySpace page (which is now offline): "I'm a f***in' redneck," he wrote. "I live to play hockey ... I'll kick ass." Somewhat more troubling for 17-year-old Bristol Palin is the following: "I don't want kids." (Of course, what 18 year old really does?)
Gov. Palin and her family announced yesterday that Bristol is pregnant, dispelling rumors Sarah's four-month old was in fact Bristol's.
...
That's a lot of effort for front sites.
While the majority of Hillary supporters wouldn't vote republican even with an all-female ticket, there are enough PUMAs, older conservative democrats and independents/undecideds who certainly would vote republican to make this race even closer.
In a normal election year, I contend you can get more votes by energizing your base than swaying undecideds. Unless she royally blows it, the base is certainly more energized. But the PO'd Hillary supporters will certainly make this more interesting to watch.
My mistake. Just from looking at that one page you linked to, with its canned, short bot-like posts, that's what it really looked like to me. Then, curiosity got the better of me, and I poked around a bit. If they're to be believed, they hate Obama every bit as much as some on the right do. The idolatry many of them have for Hillary make Obama supporters look like jaded pragmatists.
There was some discussion on NPR while I was out just now (I listen to it as it is calmer and more relaxing to me than most anything) about how much hypocrisy there was in the criticisms of Palin from the left in regards to her being a working mom. (amazing, huh? on NPR? Who knew?) They played some interviews from the Republican convention also, and while it was acknowledged opinions were widely varied, the women basically thought all the hubub about her kids and the pregnancy of her 17yo made her "more like the rest of us" and was overall a positive. A guest commentator, a female (can't remember the name, I was driving and remember I have CRS syndrome) was of the opinion that Palin would be an ideal candidate in a couple more terms, that she was very short on true experience but seemed the type pf person that would develop such experience rapidly. One can only hope.
There was some discussion on NPR while I was out just now (I listen to it as it is calmer and more relaxing to me than most anything) about how much hypocrisy there was in the criticisms of Palin from the left in regards to her being a working mom. (amazing, huh? on NPR? Who knew?) They played some interviews from the Republican convention also, and while it was acknowledged opinions were widely varied, the women basically thought all the hubub about her kids and the pregnancy of her 17yo made her "more like the rest of us" and was overall a positive. A guest commentator, a female (can't remember the name, I was driving and remember I have CRS syndrome) was of the opinion that Palin would be an ideal candidate in a couple more terms, that she was very short on true experience but seemed the type pf person that would develop such experience rapidly. One can only hope.
I enjoy NPR, it beats the shills and sycophants on the other stations! Don't always agree with the commentators but what is the fun to always agree!
I find it surprisingly more balanced than the usual suspects in the MSM, you just don't get the volume or breadth of news...since I'm on the 'net, read the Boregonian periodically, and watch network TV news every couple days, I don't figure I'm missing much.
You have to remember to consider the source no matter what anyway.
This is where so much of the ill-feeling occurs, not only on this board, but everywhere these days. People who are not "liberal" make gross assumptions about those who they categorize as "liberals", and too many folks who are not "conservative" have the opposite stereotype about those they paint as "conservative". It's unfair to both sides...
On another aspect of the controversy over Bristol Palin's pregnancy, the baby's father would not seem to be the ideal son-in-law:
Palin Daughter Baby Daddy -- "Don't Want Kids"
Posted Sep 2nd 2008 6:41AM by TMZ Staff (http://www.tmz.com/bloggers/tmz-staff/)
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.tmz.com/media/2008/09/picture-66.pngWho knew there were rednecks in Alaska?
Apparently there are, according to Levi Johnston, the guy who impregnated the daughter of GOP veep nominee Sarah Palin. He says so himself, on his MySpace page (which is now offline): "I'm a f***in' redneck," he wrote. "I live to play hockey ... I'll kick ass." Somewhat more troubling for 17-year-old Bristol Palin is the following: "I don't want kids." (Of course, what 18 year old really does?)
Gov. Palin and her family announced yesterday that Bristol is pregnant, dispelling rumors Sarah's four-month old was in fact Bristol's.
It is clear to anyone being honest that the media sides with liberals. There is absolutely no way no how this same coverage would happening if it where Chelsea Clinton.
So rail away at how people characterize liberals and the liberal media, but it is what it is.
Next thing is, when did the media or liberals give a rats ass about how people are going to take care of their kids? Please explain that to me because the liberal position on children is to either kill them before (or in Obama's case after) they are born then stick them into day cares.
I am super sick of this clearly evident double standard. And media outlets like MSNBC don't even bother to hide their bias anymore as evidenced by this story:
MSNBC 'smears' Palin from very 1st moment
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73968
EDIT:
And while I am at it, on a different note: when did the mayor of NOLA start being in charge of evacuating people? It was my understanding after Katrina that that was the sole responsibility of GWB, yet I am hearing the liberal left wing media singing the praises of "Chocolate" Nagin for getting people out of NOLA.
So when people are dying it's a republicans fault, but when people are saved the dems get praise.
More of the same double standard and bias.
stevekaw
09-02-2008, 19:03
From Gawker:
Sarah Sinking So Fast That RNC Co-Chair Just Called Her ‘Sarah Pawlenty’ (http://wonkette.com/402471/402471)
By Ken Layne on vpilf
http://wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/fail-sarah-palin1.jpg
Besides her sudden disappearance from tonight’s RNC lineup, there are many other signs that Sarah Palin will be the first major-party veep nominee to drop off the ticket since George McGovern dumped Thomas Eagleton for being crazy, (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200809u/palin-eagleton) way back in 1972. What are the other chilling new signs of Snowbilly Loserdom?
Barack Obama hit 50% in national polls for the first time today, with the McCain-Palin ticket down to 42%.
The InTrade futures market is now offering bets on Palin dropping out.
Palin’s timeline for giving birth to “Trig” is absolutely bizarre, (http://www.politicalbase.com/profile/jnail/blog/&blogId=3471blog/&blogId=3471) including long flights at 36 weeks, not going to a Texas hospital after her water broke, flying 10 hours back to Alaska, and then driving past a “premier neonatal unit” at a hospital near the Anchorage airport, etc.
We are getting about a thousand emails daily like this one: “Surely you have found out by now that Governor Palin not only fired an excellent Public Safety Commissioner as part of Troopergate, (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/palin_dragging_feet_on_probe.php) but in July she appointed a sexual harrasser, Chuck Kopp, as the replacement. Because he lied about it and she didn’t vet him properly, he stepped down after 10 days in the position and was given a $10,000.00 severance deal whereas the man who was fired without notice got nothing. All the documents and proof can be found in the Anchorage Daily News.”
McCain campaign manager Rick Davis, being interviewed by David Gregory on MSNBC, just screwed up and said, “Governor Failin, I mean Governor Palin.”
The McCain campaign is so insane over the Palin collapse that they’re lashing out at CNN for simply asking for a single example of Palin commanding the Alaska National Guard — they’re so furious, they pulled McCain off tonight’s Larry King show! (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/02/mccain-cancel-cnn/) (This actually means they just don’t want old Walnuts jabbering a bunch of contradictory bull**** on teevee tonight.)
HA HA HA HA HA the gal speaking right now just announced “Sarah Pawlenty as vice president.” This is what Jo Ann Davidson, Co-Chairman of the Republican National Committee, just said. Jesus! They’re backstage arguing about how to get Pawlenty on the ticket and she wanders out and says “Sarah Pawlenty.” Ha!
From Gawker:
Sarah Sinking So Fast That RNC Co-Chair Just Called Her ‘Sarah Pawlenty’ (http://wonkette.com/402471/402471)
By Ken Layne on vpilf
SNIP
lol...wishful thinking.
The media and liberal smear machine is running at full steam to try to hurt this woman because choosing her as VP gives McCain an easy victory. If she wasn't a threat they wouldn't be working so hard and playing dirty pool to get rid of her.
Just the effort alone speaks of desperation...bye bye Obama.
It's to be expected that the right wing echo chamber - and that's a sizable number nowadays - have made their own sport of digging up and plastering all over the internet, radio and TV examples of every obscure critic of Palin they can scrounge up. Slap a "liberal Obama" label on 'em and cry foul, "look at how those meanie libs treat that poor hockey mom."
How about looking at the other 90% of liberals and Obama supporters, which includes everyone that's actually involved with the campaign, that are doing the right thing and leaving a family matter to the family?
We're pointing out that McCain was pressured into making a last minute selection of someone he hadn't had time to consider, because his intended selections of Lieberman or Ridge were not permitted by his handlers Rove and Limbaugh. Independent maverick no more. It was sad when Harriet Miers was nominated for the SC, and then had to withdraw, and it will be sad if Sarah Palin has to do it. The evidence is she will have to withdraw.
If 90% including campaign staff had been leaving hands off Obama wouldn't have felt the need to emphasize his own campaign people were included when he repeated the hands off the family message. And I wouldn't characterize every vociferous left-side critic of Palin as obscure either. At least they don't seem to be thought of that way when their message is welcomed.
Besides, you know as well as I do that every group is judged by that 10% no matter what your orientation is. It's human nature. Teachers punish whole classes based on the rottenest 10% all the time. Nobody seems to want to dig through the other 90% when that easy 10% is begging for it.
If 90% including campaign staff had been leaving hands off Obama wouldn't have felt the need to emphasize his own campaign people were included when he repeated the hands off the family message.
Wrong explanation. Pre-emptive only.
Or can you point out an Obama staffer that attacked Palin over any of her family matters?
It's good to see you acknowledge the 10% (or less, actually), but I expect the echo chamber to stay busy with their little exercise. Obama's been a disciplined campaigner and there's very little "there" there to attack him on.
CNN's The Situation Room reporter, Kyra Phillips, quoting a rep for the Alliance for Reproductive Justice (no self-respecting conservative organization would choose that moniker): "Abstinence doesn't work. We've got to have better sex education in schools, and this is just one example, this just underscores the pregnancy of the governor's daughter to why we need sex education in schools." No acknowledgement of an attempt to contact someone for an opposing viewpoint was presented.
Abstinence works 100% when it is actually put into practice. Somehow I doubt the two involved here were unfamiliar with either human reporoduction or birth control, either one.
Robert Wexler, a congressman from Maryland who represents Florida accused Palin of "supporting a Nazi sympathizer..."
Now that's old fashioned dirty politics...
I'm tired. I'm going to try and go back to bed...
Looks like the Looney Left part of the Obama campaign is trying to recover from the Trig Palin fiasco. And if anyone thinks the Daily Kos and company aren't closely cooperating with Obama central they need their brains overhauled.
McCain knew about the pregnant daughter. An announcement was planned for after the convention, probably a family photo-op with boyfriend in tow. But the Kos internet BS and the hurricane made them decide to announce early, during the storm, so the news wouldn't dominate the media.
As for the "Bridge to Nowhere", I was there a month ago and saw for myself. First, it's a bridge between Ketchican and its airport across the passage on Gravina Island. Flat, buildable land is at a premium in the area. A big part of downtown Ketchican is actually built over water on a pier. So the airport ended up on a seperate island, and is accessable only by water.
At $5 a one way ferry trip to the airport its way cheaper than building a bridge but a bridge wouldn't be cancelled by weather, and air travel is vital in Alaska due to lack of roads. One one hand the bridge project overall didn't make economic sense. On the other hand if Uncle Sam was handing out free money Alaska would have been nuts not to take it, as for their small portion of the cost the bridge DID make sense.
How many of you refused to accept your economic stimulus check because it didn't make sense? Alaska would have made the same choice you did. The bridge project was worse since if the money wasn't spent on the bridge it's go somewhere else even dumber and more corrupt, like the I75 interchange earmark near us in Sarasota, designed to profit one big developer.
Rifleman55
09-03-2008, 11:28
The chances that he won't be able to work full time increase with age, that's just actuarial reality. He'd be 76 at the end of his first term.
The Hillary dead-enders. Sore losers. Stands for "Party Unity My [Arse-nal]."
I do too -- right up until he began this campaign.
Yes, consistently. Starting as far back as his earliest career choices.
Of course. You're not that cynical, are you? Many politicians could make more money in the private sector for a lot less work. However, it must be said that nearly all of them are driven by ambition in addition to the desire to serve constituents and country.
Of course. And think how much better off we'd be if that John McCain had been president the last eight years, rather than this W. Bush. But nooo, the GOP string-pullers had to have someone pliable, someone without the understanding to realize how harmful their schemes are to this country.
The great mystery is how John McCain has come to terms with himself, after conceding to them, knowing what he does about them. He somehow became willing to fling open the gates for the very gang of looters he once exposed and tried to root out.
McCain's played the game enough that he's become part of the exact problem he once tried to fix.
Obama's the real deal, an honest to God reformer, who really will work to change government for the better. McCain used to be. We can't know how successful Obama might be, but I do know that McCain, if elected, will allow four more years of the same crooks to wreak havoc that have already done so much damage during the last eight.I would expect as much from some one in the most liberal city in Texas,you sound just like the rest of the left coast Demos.,Obama has not got anything figured out, he is just an Educated idiot that got a lot of organized crime support, because he will do their bidding. If you don't think he will try to outlaw our firearms tou better get your head out of the sand. Signed a pro gun, pro life born again Christian.
... he is just an Educated idiot that got a lot of organized crime support, because he will do their bidding. If you don't think he will try to outlaw our firearms tou better get your head out of the sand. Signed a pro gun, pro life born again Christian.
As in the Daly political machine?
It's to be expected that the right wing echo chamber - and that's a sizable number nowadays - have made their own sport of digging up and plastering all over the internet, radio and TV examples of every obscure critic of Palin they can scrounge up. Slap a "liberal Obama" label on 'em and cry foul, "look at how those meanie libs treat that poor hockey mom."
How about looking at the other 90% of liberals and Obama supporters, which includes everyone that's actually involved with the campaign, that are doing the right thing and leaving a family matter to the family?
We're pointing out that McCain was pressured into making a last minute selection of someone he hadn't had time to consider, because his intended selections of Lieberman or Ridge were not permitted by his handlers Rove and Limbaugh. Independent maverick no more. It was sad when Harriet Miers was nominated for the SC, and then had to withdraw, and it will be sad if Sarah Palin has to do it. The evidence is she will have to withdraw.
Handlers Rove and Limbaugh? I don't know about Rove but Limbaugh has been very critical of McCain. Now he's one of McCains handlers?:blink:
COBRADOC
09-03-2008, 15:43
I think it's starting to get funny - every time the Dems and their love fest media have opened their mouths this week they have wound up with egg on their collective faces.
Obama's the real deal, an honest to God reformer, who really will work to change government for the better. McCain used to be. We can't know how successful Obama might be, but I do know that McCain, if elected, will allow four more years of the same crooks to wreak havoc that have already done so much damage during the last eight.
Who ever heard of Obama before this...
what does it say about the number one of a ticket who is comparing his experience to the number two on the opposition ticket?
Obama's the real deal, an honest to God reformer, who really will work to change government for the better. McCain used to be. We can't know how successful Obama might be, but I do know that McCain, if elected, will allow four more years of the same crooks to wreak havoc that have already done so much damage during the last eight.
Who ever heard of Obama before this...
Like a true liberal you can't even do one paragraph without contradicting yourself.
Obama's the real deal, an honest to God reformer, who really will work to change government for the better.
Then
We can't know how successful Obama might be
Who ever heard of Obama before this...
Right...
There is nothing "real" about Obama. He is a construct of the left, made from whole cloth in the image that the star makers have created for him. He has yet to answer a hard ball question or have his life scrutinized (contrast that with Palin in the last week). He has yet to actually say how he plans to make his "change" happen and how he plans to pay for it.
The guy is a snake oil salesman at best. Making all sorts of promises with no record or methodology to back up his claims.
The guy is an absolute joke and so is anyone who follows him.
Well, Palin's speech went well, was well received at the convention anyway. I don't know who wrote it, but the Democrats are howling that it was Bush's speech writer and it was full of attacks. I don't know about attacks, but it was full of barbs and humor at the Democrats expense. She wasn't the only one who dished that out, either. I figure much of it must be true since there's so much strident protestation about it.
Did anyone notice how the boyfriend of her 17 year old was included as part of the family in the audience? The boyfriend would probably be nowhere to be found if this were a Black family.
The boyfriend would probably be nowhere to be found if this were a Black family.was that really necessary?
Well, Palin's speech went well, was well received at the convention anyway. I don't know who wrote it, but the Democrats are howling that it was Bush's speech writer and it was full of attacks. I don't know about attacks, but it was full of barbs and humor at the Democrats expense. She wasn't the only one who dished that out, either. I figure much of it must be true since there's so much strident protestation about it.
I loved the speech! She is defending herself against the left and dished it out with better answers and better facts. Good for her! USA! USA! Drill baby drill! Drill baby drill! ;)
Main Dem Lines of attack today -
She's only a stupid woman and couldn't write a speech
She's inexperienced
Both these are going to be counterproductive, getting more women enraged, getting reports out on how many speechwriters Obama has, and on how little, as in zero, executive experience he has.
mnottfam
09-04-2008, 07:27
was that really necessary?
Actually, I think it quite fits here. Simple honest truth, sadly.:(
Actually, I think it quite fits here. Simple honest truth, sadly.:(
Not really, very counterproductive. That kind of crap is unwarranted and serves no purpose. And I am talking not about the part the kid being there but the "black" reference.
COBRADOC
09-04-2008, 09:33
..........[COLOR=#000000][FONT=arial]Robert Wexler, a congressman from Maryland who represents Florida accused Palin of "supporting a Nazi sympathizer..."
Now that's old fashioned dirty politics...
I'm tired. I'm going to try and go back to bed...
Mark, funny you should mention Bob Wexler. I have known Wexler politically for a long time. He comes out of what is probably the most obnoxious ethnic group in existence in South Florida (I’ll let you interpret that, because I don’t want the PC folks to have a cow). And Wexler is one of the most obnoxious of his group. He is a whiner, he's rude, and as corrupt as they come, but his position is secured because his district is an ethnic lock. The minute that someone disagrees with him, he will drop the Anti-Semitic card like it was a hot nail. He doesn’t get much national attention, but here in Florida, other than in his district, he is one of the most despised politicians in the state of Florida. He makes Alce Hastings look like a saint (Hastings is an impeached federal judge that got elected to congress by another one of Florida's ethnically controlled district.)
And I’m trying to be nice about it.
I don't know much about him. His words speak volumes though. Sounds like the kind of guy flies would refuse to lay eggs on, and I'm trying to be nice about that!
was that really necessary?
Considering how Obama and Bill Cosby have asked black men to accept personal responsibility, it wasn't necessary. I wrote it so that those who attack Palin can keep their comments against her family in perspective. Palin's daughter and her boyfriend are reportedly keeping the baby and getting married. Compare that to what usually happens in other ethnic groups. That was my point.
Now I can see you point. You sorta stopped halfway leaving the reader to wonder your intent.
Speech was spot on, the libs are going to have a hard time knocking her down.
My favorite point was made by Rudy. It went essentially like this:
"Change is not a destination, no more than Hope is a strategy".
The point about the daughter's boyfriend not being there if he were black is totally appropriate. As a matter of fact if this were a black republican family they would have been all over it.
There is no comparison between Obama and Cosby. Obama is an empty suit who publically says one thing and then does another. Palin even made that point yesterday about how Obama praises working people when in rural states then denigrates them when he in San Fran.
As usual, the liberal media is beating her up all day today and doing the exact opposite with the Obama side. I guess they are beyond even hiding their bias. The MSM is an absolute liberal machine and a total farce.
Obama's the real deal, an honest to God reformer, who really will work to change government for the better. McCain used to be. We can't know how successful Obama might be, but I do know that McCain, if elected, will allow four more years of the same crooks to wreak havoc that have already done so much damage during the last eight.
Who ever heard of Obama before this...
Honest to God reformer?
Is that why he rose to power as part of the Chicago Machine. The Chicago political establishment has the most corrupt city government in the U.S. Mayor Daley (King thug) is close friends with Obama. The entire world knows that he is the most corrupt political figure in America.
Where was (the reformer) Obama's out cry about Chicago politics and business as usual when he was a community organizer and state legislator? He was flying high and riding the wave to Washington to spread his twisted version of socialism.
The man has no ideas, just rehashed social BS from the failed policies of the 60's and 70's.
centurion
09-04-2008, 15:34
That was A Great speech last night , McCain made A good and wise choise to pick Sarah , this will bring in A lot of women votes , small town America that Obama insulted , A lot of Hillary voters that unhappy with Obama