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freesw
08-23-2008, 16:05
Can Senator McCain even choose his own running mate without Rush Limbaugh's blessing? Is the same comedian that savaged McCain during the campaign now his kingmaker?

http://us.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/20/gop.vp/index.html

Speculation that Sen. John McCain is considering as a running mate two men who support abortion rights has sparked a backlash among social conservatives, including radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh.

Limbaugh warned on his radio show Tuesday that McCain would ensure the GOP's defeat if he picked either Tom Ridge, a former Pennsylvania governor and homeland security secretary, or Sen. Joseph Lieberman, an Connecticut independent who was the 2000 Democratic vice presidential nominee. Both Ridge and Lieberman support abortion rights.

One Republican insider said McCain campaign manager Rick Davis has called several state party chairs and indicated that Ridge will be the Republican vice presidential pick this cycle.

"How about some discussion from the McCain campaign about a conservative who can be counted on across the board, who can help lead the country in the right direction?" Limbaugh said. "Who can help rebuild the Republican Party? Lieberman can't do that -- and rebuild the conservative movement? McCain nor Lieberman nor Ridge can do that."
...

migyver
08-23-2008, 16:34
A woman that I know from Pennsylvania that now lives in Texas says that she will not vote for McCain if he chooses Tom Ridge as his VP running mate. She claims that Ridge didn't give a rats posterior about veterans when he was governor. I support abortion on demand, but will still vote for McCain unless he picks senator Loserman, I mean Lieberman.

Scully
08-23-2008, 16:40
A woman that I know from Pennsylvania that now lives in Texas says that she will not vote for McCain if he chooses Tom Ridge as his VP running mate. She claims that Ridge didn't give a rats posterior about veterans when he was governor. I support abortion on demand, but will still vote for McCain unless he picks senator Loserman, I mean Lieberman.

:huh:

migyver
08-23-2008, 16:59
Sorry, but not all gun nuts on this forum are pro-life. One thing that puzzles me though is how many who claim to be pro-life support the death penalty and how many who support abortion on demand oppose the death penalty. I support abortion, but not the late term variety, and the death penalty.

freesw
08-28-2008, 11:00
John McCain wants Lieberman to be VP, but he's not being permitted to select Lieberman by Limbaugh and now Rove.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0808/Rove_doesnt_deny_calling_Lieberman.html

Rove coyly denied on Fox noise about an hour ago that the Politico story is quite right, but the message got through loud and clear that he did indeed make this phone call.

McCain may have all the good intentions in the world, to make changes from the incompetence, partisanship and corruption of the Bush administration, but that will not be his choice to make. A vote for John McCain is a vote for a further slide into the abyss.

Rugermann
08-28-2008, 11:33
Sorry, but not all gun nuts on this forum are pro-life. One thing that puzzles me though is how many who claim to be pro-life support the death penalty and how many who support abortion on demand oppose the death penalty. I support abortion, but not the late term variety, and the death penalty.

I believe there is a significant difference between being pro-life(against abortion on demand) and at the same time being for the death penalty.
The above sentence describes my views.
An unborn baby has no say/input in regards to their death when an abortion is performed on THEM.
A CONVICTED killer/child molester committed these acts and is therefore responsible for the punishment dealt them by society. Oh, and yes, I did say child molesters DESERVE DEATH.

Jeff

raccol
08-28-2008, 12:31
http://raccol.com/images/smileys/blah-sign.gifThis whole notion is silly and I suspect the idea of Lieberman as VP is just a concoction of the vast left-wing conspiracy. http://raccol.com/images/smileys/beararms.gif

But seriously, no candidate in his/her right mind would pick a running mate that doesn't' help achieve the goal of winning. E.g., Jeb Bush's name was floated around briefly and while he's probably infinitely more qualified to hold such a position than his brother is, he has the wrong last name and there's no way he could help.

As much as McCain likes Lieberman, he's also a pragmatist. The point of being a maverick is to make unpopular decisions to achieve a certain goal. Intentionally making decisions that obviously won't help achieve said goal doesn't make you a maverick, it makes you stupid.

Besides, my guess is most conservatives wouldn't mind seeing Lieberman as SecDef or SecState.

freesw
08-28-2008, 15:53
Changing one's mind in response to better information is one thing, but Senator McCain's flip flops reveal a candidate that's lost his independence, yielding to the Bush/Limbaugh/Rove crowd in nearly every way:

1. McCain thought Bush’s warrantless-wiretap program circumvented the law; now he believes the opposite.

2. McCain insisted that everyone, even “terrible killers,” “the worst kind of scum of humanity,” and detainees at Guantanamo Bay, “deserve to have some adjudication of their cases,” even if that means “releasing some of them.” McCain now believes the opposite.

3. He opposed indefinite detention of terrorist suspects. When the Supreme Court reached the same conclusion, he called it “one of the worst decisions in the history of this country.”

4. In February 2008, McCain reversed course on prohibiting waterboarding.

5. McCain was for closing the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay before he was against it.

6. When Barack Obama talked about going after terrorists in Pakistani mountains with predators, McCain criticized him for it. He’s since come to the opposite conclusion.

Foreign Policy

7. McCain was for kicking Russia out of the G8 before he was against it. Now, he’s for it again.

8. McCain supported moving “towards normalization of relations” with Cuba. Now he believes the opposite.

9. McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Hamas. Now he believes the opposite.

10. McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Syria. Now he believes the opposite.

11. McCain is both for and against a “rogue state rollback” as a focus of his foreign policy vision.

12. McCain used to champion the Law of the Sea convention, even volunteering to testify on the treaty’s behalf before a Senate committee. Now he opposes it.

13. McCain was against divestment from South Africa before he was for it.

Military Policy

14. McCain recently claimed that he was the “greatest critic” of Rumsfeld’s failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy as “a mission accomplished.” In March 2004, he said, “I’m confident we’re on the right course.” In December 2005, he said, “Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course.”

15. McCain has changed his mind about a long-term U.S. military presence in Iraq on multiple occasions, concluding, on multiple occasions, that a Korea-like presence is both a good and a bad idea.

16. McCain was against additional U.S. forces in Afghanistan before he was for it.

17. McCain said before the war in Iraq, “We will win this conflict. We will win it easily.” Four years later, McCain said he knew all along that the war in Iraq war was “probably going to be long and hard and tough.”

18. McCain has repeatedly said it’s a dangerous mistake to tell the “enemy” when U.S. troops would be out of Iraq. In May, McCain announced that most American troops would be home from Iraq by 2013.

19. McCain was against expanding the GI Bill before he was for it.

20. McCain staunchly opposed Obama’s Iraq withdrawal timetable, and even blasted Mitt Romney for having referenced the word during the GOP primaries. In July, after Iraqi officials endorsed Obama’s policy, McCain said a 16-month calendar sounds like “a pretty good timetable.”

Domestic Policy

21. McCain defended “privatizing” Social Security. Now he says he’s against privatization (though he actually still supports it.)

22. On Social Security, McCain said he would not, under any circumstances, raise taxes. Soon after, asked about a possible increase in the payroll tax, McCain said there’s “nothing that’s off the table.”

23. McCain wanted to change the Republican Party platform to protect abortion rights in cases of rape and incest. Now he doesn’t.

24. McCain supported storing spent nuclear fuel at Yucca Mountain in Nevada. Now he believes the opposite.

25. He argued the NRA should not have a role in the Republican Party’s policy making. Now he believes the opposite.

26. In 1998, he championed raising cigarette taxes to fund programs to cut underage smoking, insisting that it would prevent illnesses and provide resources for public health programs. Now, McCain opposes a $0.61-per-pack tax increase, won’t commit to supporting a regulation bill he’s co-sponsoring, and has hired Philip Morris’ former lobbyist as his senior campaign adviser.

27. McCain is both for and against earmarks for Arizona.

28. McCain’s first mortgage plan was premised on the notion that homeowners facing foreclosure shouldn’t be “rewarded” for acting “irresponsibly.” His second mortgage plan took largely the opposite position.

29. McCain went from saying gay marriage should be allowed, to saying gay marriage shouldn’t be allowed.

30. McCain opposed a holiday to honor Martin Luther King, Jr., before he supported it.

31. McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he’s pro-ethanol.

32. McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.

33. In 2005, McCain endorsed intelligent design creationism, a year later he said the opposite, and a few months after that, he was both for and against creationism at the same time.

34. And on gay adoption, McCain initially said he’d rather let orphans go without families, then his campaign reversed course, and soon after, McCain reversed back.

35. In the Senate, McCain opposed a variety of measures on equal pay for women, and endorsed the Supreme Court’s Ledbetter decision. In July, however, McCain said, “I’m committed to making sure that there’s equal pay for equal work. That … is my record and you can count on it.”

36. McCain was against fully funding the No Child Left Behind Act before he was for it.

37. McCain was for affirmative action before he was against it.

38. McCain said the Colorado River compact will “obviously” need to be “renegotiated.” Six days later, McCain said, “Let me be clear that I do not advocate renegotiation of the compact.”

Economic Policy

39. McCain was against Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy before he was for them.

40. John McCain initially argued that economics is not an area of expertise for him, saying, “I’m going to be honest: I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues; I still need to be educated,” and “The issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should.” He now falsely denies ever having made these remarks and insists that he has a “very strong” understanding of economics.

41. McCain vowed, if elected, to balance the federal budget by the end of his first term. Soon after, he decided he would no longer even try to reach that goal. And soon after that, McCain abandoned his second position and went back to his first.

42. McCain said in 2005 that he opposed the tax cuts because they were “too tilted to the wealthy.” By 2007, he denied ever having said this, and falsely argued that he opposed the cuts because of increased government spending.

43. McCain thought the estate tax was perfectly fair. Now he believes the opposite.

44. McCain pledged in February 2008 that he would not, under any circumstances, raise taxes. Specifically, McCain was asked if he is a “‘read my lips’ candidate, no new taxes, no matter what?” referring to George H.W. Bush’s 1988 pledge. “No new taxes,” McCain responded. Two weeks later, McCain said, “I’m not making a ‘read my lips’ statement, in that I will not raise taxes.”

45. McCain has changed his entire economic worldview on multiple occasions.

46. McCain believes Americans are both better and worse off economically than they were before Bush took office.

Energy Policy

47. McCain supported the moratorium on coastal drilling ; now he’s against it.

48. McCain recently announced his strong opposition to a windfall-tax on oil company profits. Three weeks earlier, he was perfectly comfortable with the idea.

49. McCain endorsed a cap-and-trade policy with a mandatory emissions cap. In mid-June, McCain announced he wants the caps to voluntary.

50. McCain explained his belief that a temporary suspension of the federal gas tax would provide an immediate economic stimulus. Shortly thereafter, he argued the exact opposite.

51. McCain supported the Lieberman/Warner legislation to combat global warming. Now he doesn’t.

52. McCain was for national auto emissions standards before he was against them.

Immigration Policy

53. McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants’ kids who graduate from high school. In 2007, he announced his opposition to the bill. In 2008, McCain switched back.

54. On immigration policy in general, McCain announced in February 2008 that he would vote against his own bill.

55. In April, McCain promised voters that he would secure the borders “before proceeding to other reform measures.” Two months later, he abandoned his public pledge, pretended that he’d never made the promise in the first place, and vowed that a comprehensive immigration reform policy has always been, and would always be, his “top priority.”

Judicial Policy and the Rule of Law

56. McCain said he would “not impose a litmus test on any nominee.” He used to promise the opposite.

57. McCain’s position was that the telecoms should be forced to explain their role in the administration’s warrantless surveillance program as a condition for retroactive immunity. He used to believe the opposite.

58. McCain went from saying he would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade to saying the exact opposite.

59. In June, McCain rejected the idea of a trial for Osama bin Laden, and thought Obama’s reference to Nuremberg was a misread of history. A month later, McCain argued the exact opposite position.

60. In June, McCain described the Supreme Court’s decision in Boumediene v. Bush was “one of the worst decisions in the history of this country.” In August, he reversed course.

Campaign, Ethics, and Lobbying Reform

61. McCain supported his own lobbying-reform legislation from 1997. Now he doesn’t.

62. In 2006, McCain sponsored legislation to require grassroots lobbying coalitions to reveal their financial donors. In 2007, after receiving “feedback” on the proposal, McCain told far-right activist groups that he opposes his own measure.

63. McCain supported a campaign-finance bill, which bore his name, on strengthening the public-financing system. In June 2007, he abandoned his own legislation.

64. In May 2008, McCain approved a ban on lobbyists working for his campaign. In July 2008, his campaign reversed course and said lobbyists could work for his campaign.

Politics and Associations

65. McCain wanted political support from radical televangelist John Hagee. Now he doesn’t. (He also believes his endorsement from Hagee was both a good and bad idea.)

66. McCain wanted political support from radical televangelist Rod Parsley. Now he doesn’t.

67. McCain says he considered and did not consider joining John Kerry’s Democratic ticket in 2004.

68. McCain is both for and against attacking Barack Obama over his former pastor at his former church.

69. McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as “an agent of intolerance” in 2002, but then decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans “deserved” the 9/11 attacks.

70. In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending “dirty money” to help finance Bush’s presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.

71. McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.

72. McCain decided in 2000 that he didn’t want anything to do with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, believing he “would taint the image of the ‘Straight Talk Express.’” Kissinger is now the Honorary Co-Chair for his presidential campaign in New York.

73. McCain believed powerful right-wing activist/lobbyist Grover Norquist was “corrupt, a shill for dictators, and (with just a dose of sarcasm) Jack Abramoff’s gay lover.” McCain now considers Norquist a key political ally.

74. McCain was for presidential candidates giving speeches in foreign countries before he was against it.

75. McCain has been both for and against considering a pro-choice running mate for the Republican presidential ticket.

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/flipflops

raccol
08-28-2008, 17:23
http://raccol.com/images/smileys/blah-sign.gif

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/flipflops

Have you ever met a copy and paste button you don't like? A couple of juicy quotes and the link will suffice. :beer:

freesw
08-28-2008, 17:31
I make use of "..." all the time.

Nice attempt at redirection from the unfortunate direction candidate McCain's taken, though. :)

raccol
08-28-2008, 17:36
John McCain: 75 flip flops and counting ....That's like one for every year of his life...:lol:

doctorxring
08-28-2008, 17:53
Oh, we can play that game too --





COMPREHENSIVE OBAMA FLIP FLOP LIST


I don't know when "flip-flopping" became such a big issue. It may have started when Aaron decided a golden calf wasn't such a hot idea after all. I also don't know if it shows anything other than that Obama is trying to react to public opinion, or, to put a positive spin on it: that he's flexible. What about the nature of the flips? Since every one is to the right, I think it shows that the nation is more conservative than pre-April Obama. From here.

Anyways, even though I don't know whether I care about it (The only one that really bothers me is the refusal to debate McCain. The first joint town hall should be exciting.), I know some do, and I'm willing to change my policy on this subject. Doh!

CHANGE #1: Despite Pledging To Withdraw American Troops From Iraq Immediately, Barack Obama Now Says He Would "Refine" His Policy After Listening To The Commanders On The Ground

In July 2008, Barack Obama Said He Will Continue To "Refine" His Iraq Policy. Obama: "I've always said that the pace of withdrawal would be dictated by the safety and security of our troops and the need to maintain stability. That assessment has not changed...And when I go to Iraq and have a chance to talk to some of the commanders on the ground, I'm sure I'll have more information and will continue to refine my policies." (Jeff Zeleny, "Obama: Open to 'Refine' Iraq Withdrawal Timeline," The New York Times' "The Caucus" Blog, http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com, 7/3/08)

In The Primaries, Barack Obama Committed To Withdrawing Troops From Iraq Regardless Of The Advice He Received From Commanders On The Ground. ABC's Charles Gibson: "And, Senator Obama, your campaign manager, David Plouffe, said, 'When he is' -- this is talking about you - 'When he is elected president, we will be out of Iraq in 16 months at the most. There should be no confusion about that.' So you'd give the same rock-hard pledge, that no matter what the military commanders said, you would give the order to bring them home?" Obama: "Because the commander-in-chief sets the mission, Charlie. That's not the role of the generals. ... Now, I will always listen to our commanders on the ground with respect to tactics, once I've given them a new mission, that we are going to proceed deliberately, in an orderly fashion, out of Iraq, and we are going to have our combat troops out. We will not have permanent bases there. Once I have provided that mission, if they come to me and want to adjust tactics, then I will certainly take their recommendations into consideration. But, ultimately, the buck stops with me as the commander-in-chief." (Sen. Barack Obama, Democrat Presidential Candidate Debate, Philadelphia, PA, 4/16/08)


CHANGE #2: Despite Pledging To Accept Public Financing, Barack Obama Has Reversed His Position And Opted Out Of The System

Barack Obama Has Declined Public Financing In The General Election, Calling It A "Broken System." "In a web video emailed to supporters, Obama asks his supporters to help him 'declare our independence from a broken system.' Of course, it's not so much a broken system that explains why he's passing on the FEC's $80+million. He will easily raise more than he could ever get in public funding." (Jonathan Martin, "Obama Opts Out Of Public Financing," The Politico's "Jonathan Martin" Blog, www.politico.com, 6/19/08)

In Response To A Midwest Democracy Network Questionnaire, Barack Obama Said He Would Accept Public Funding In The General Election. Question: "If you are nominated for President in 2008 and your major opponents agree to forgo private funding in the general election campaign, will you participate in the presidential public financing system?" Obama: "Yes. I have been a long-time advocate for public financing of campaigns combined with free television and radio time as a way to reduce the influence of moneyed special interests." (Sen. Barack Obama, "Presidential Candidate Questionnaire," Midwest Democracy Network, www.commoncause.org, 11/27/07)

CHANGE #3: Barack Obama Is Backtracking On His Support For Unilaterally Renegotiating NAFTA

During The Primaries, Barack Obama Pledged To Unilaterally Renegotiate NAFTA. NBC'S TIM RUSSERT: "A simple question. Will you as president say to Canada and Mexico, this [NAFTA] has not worked for us, we are out?" OBAMA: "I will make sure that we renegotiate in the same way that Senator Clinton talked about, and I think actually Senator Clinton's answer on this one is right. I think we should use the hammer of a potential opt-out as leverage to ensure that we actually get labor and environmental standards that are enforced." (Sen. Barack Obama, MSNBC Democrat Presidential Debate, Cleveland, OH, 2/26/08)

In The General Election, Barack Obama Now Says His Words Were "Overheated And Amplified." "In an interview with Fortune to be featured in the magazine's upcoming issue, the presumptive Democratic nominee backed off his harshest attacks on the free trade agreement and indicated he didn't want to unilaterally reopen negotiations on NAFTA. 'Sometimes during campaigns the rhetoric gets overheated and amplified,' he conceded, after I reminded him that he had called NAFTA 'devastating' and 'a big mistake,' despite nonpartisan studies concluding that the trade zone has had a mild, positive effect on the U.S. economy." (Nina Easton, "Obama: NAFTA Not So Bad After All," Fortune, 6/18/08)

CHANGE #4: Barack Obama Is Considering Reducing Corporate Taxes Despite Having Called Corporate Tax Cuts "The Exact Wrong Prescription For America"

The Wall Street Journal Reported That Barack Obama Would Consider Lowering Corporate Taxes. "Sen. Obama's nod to lowering corporate taxes comes as Republicans have been attacking him for proposals that would raise the cost of doing business, such as his pledge to raise the tax rate on capital gains, and his vow to increase the top income-tax rates, which are often used by small, unincorporated enterprises. He didn't say how deeply he would cut the rate, but said it could be trimmed in return for reducing corporate tax breaks, simplifying the tax system." (Bob Davis and Amy Chozick, "Obama Plans Spending Boost, Possible Cut In Business Tax," The Wall Street Journal, 6/17/08)

Just Last Month, Barack Obama Called Corporate Tax Cuts "The Exact Wrong Prescription For America." OBAMA: "And his proposals, which are essentially $300 billion worth of corporate tax cuts ... I think is the exact wrong prescription for America." (NBC's "Meet The Press," 5/4/08)

CHANGE #5: Barack Obama Has Changed Positions On The D.C. Handgun Ban

In June 2008, Barack Obama Said He Thought The D.C. Handgun Ban Was Unconstitutional. Obama: "It looks to me that the D.C. handgun ban overshot the runway. That it went beyond constitutional limits." (Bloomberg's "Taking Stock," 6/26/08)

Obama Campaign: "Obama Believes The D.C. Handgun Law Is Constitutional." "[T]he campaign of Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said that he '...believes that we can recognize and respect the rights of law-abiding gun owners and the right of local communities to enact common sense laws to combat violence and save lives. Obama believes the D.C. handgun law is constitutional.'" (James Oliphant and Michael J. Higgins, "Court To Hear Gun Case," Chicago Tribune, 11/20/07)

During An Interview, Barack Obama Acknowledged His Support For The D.C. Gun Ban. Questioner Leon Harris: "One other issue that's of great importance here in the district as well is gun control. You said in Idaho recently - I'm quoting here - 'I have no intention of taking away folks' guns,' but you support the D.C. handgun ban." Obama: "Right." (Leon Harris and Sen. Barack Obama, Forum Sponsored By ABC And Politico.Com, Washington, DC, 2/12/08)

CHANGE #6: Barack Obama Has Shifted From Opposing Welfare Reform To Celebrating Welfare Reform In A Television Ad

In His Newest Television Ad, Barack Obama Touts His Role In Slashing Welfare Rolls, But Leaves Out That He Was Against The 1996 Federal Legislation That Enacted Welfare Reform. "Barack Obama aligned himself with welfare reform on Monday, launching a television ad which touts the way the overhaul 'slashed the rolls by 80 percent.' Obama leaves out, however, that he was against the 1996 federal legislation which precipitated the caseload reduction." (Teddy Davis and Gregory Wallace, "Obama Shifts On Welfare Reform," ABC News' "Political Radar" Blog, http://blogs.abcnews.com, Posted 7/1/08)

In 1997, Barack Obama Said He Would Have Probably Not Supported Federal Welfare Reform Legislation. "'I am not a defender of the status quo with respect to welfare,' Obama said on the floor of the Illinois state Senate on May 31, 1997. 'Having said that, I probably would not have supported the federal legislation, because I think it had some problems.'" (Teddy Davis and Gregory Wallace, "Obama Shifts On Welfare Reform," ABC News' "Political Radar" Blog, http://blogs.abcnews.com, Posted 7/1/08)

CHANGE #7: As A Presidential Candidate, Barack Obama Criticizes The Administration's Energy Policy Despite Having Voted For The 2005 Bush-Cheney Energy Bill

Barack Obama Attacks John McCain On Energy Policy, Saying He Will Be A "Third Bush Term." OBAMA: "Make no mistake, this is an area where John McCain is offering a third Bush term." (Thomas Fitzgerald, "Obama Knocks McCain, Says Primary Fight Not Hurting, Philadelphia Inquirer, 4/1/08)

"Obama, Of Course, Voted For The 2005 Energy Bill, Which Passed The Senate Overwhelmingly 74-26." (Jake Tapper, "Who's Offering A 3rd Bush Term On Energy?" ABC News' "Political Punch" Blog, blogs.abcnews.com, 4/3/08)

"Someone Else Who Voted Against It? The Candidate Whom Obama Says Is Offering 'A Third Bush Term' On Energy Policy -- John McCain." (Jake Tapper, "Who's Offering A 3rd Bush Term On Energy?" ABC News' "Political Punch" Blog, blogs.abcnews.com, 4/3/08)

CHANGE #8: Barack Obama Has Shifted Positions On Nuclear Power

In September 2007, Barack Obama Said "I Don't Think That We Can Take Nuclear Power Off The Table". "I don't think that we can take nuclear power off the table. What we have to make sure of is that we have the capacity to store it properly and safely, and that we reduce whatever threats might come from terrorism." (Sen. Barack Obama, MSNBC Democrat Presidential Candidate Debate, Hanover, NH, 9/26/07)

In December 2007, Barack Obama Said "I Am Not A Nuclear Energy Proponent". "I start off with the premise that nuclear energy is not optimal. I am not a nuclear energy proponent." (Sen. Barack Obama, Remarks At Town Hall Event, Newton, IA, 12/30/07)

CHANGE #9: Obama Adviser Said Obama Was Not Opposed To An Individual Health Care Mandate Despite His Opposition During The Primary

Campaign Adviser, Kavita Patel, Said That Obama "Is Not Opposed To The Idea" Of An Individual Mandate And That The Campaign Is In Touch With Former Clinton Health Care Advisers. "Asked if Obama would be seen as reversing himself if he were to endorse an individual mandate after clashing with Clinton on the issue, Patel dismissed the concern. 'He has not said he is opposed to it,' [Kavita] Patel told ABC News. 'He has voiced his disagreement with having that be a part of his health-care plan last year. But he is not opposed to the idea itself.' Patel added that the Obama campaign is in touch with former Clinton health-care advisers." (Teddy Davis, John Santucci and Gregory Wallace, "Obama Health Plan Could Go In Clinton's Direction," ABC News' "Political Radar" Blog, blogs.abcnews.com, 6/26/08)

Barack Obama Argued With Sen. Clinton Saying There Is "A Different Way" To Achieve Universal Care Rather Than Imposing An Individual Mandate. Obama: "We've got a philosophical difference which we've debated repeatedly, and that is that Senator Clinton believes the only way to achieve universal health care is to force everybody to purchase it, and my belief is the reason that people don't have it is not because they don't want it, but because they can't afford it." (Barack Obama, CNN/Univision Democrat Presidential Debate, Austin, TX, 2/21/08)

CHANGE #10: During The Primaries, Barack Obama Pledged To Filibuster Any Bill Which Contained Immunity For Telecommunications Companies Involved In Electronic Surveillance, But Now Backs A Compromise Bill

In October 2007, The Obama Campaign Pledged He Would Filibuster "Any Bill That Includes Retroactive Immunity For Telecommunications Companies." Obama Spokesman Bill Burton: "To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies." (Greg Sargent, "Obama Camp Says It: He'll Support Filibuster Of Any Bill Containing Telecom Immunity," Talking Points Memo's "Election Central" Blog, tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com, 10/24/07)

Barack Obama Now Supports A Bill Reauthorizing Electronic Surveillance That Grants Immunity To Telecommunications Companies. Obama: "Under this compromise legislation, an important tool in the fight against terrorism will continue. It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I will work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses. So I support the compromise, but do so with a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the program, review the report by the Inspectors General, and work with the Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives and the liberty of the American people." (Ben Smith, "Obama Backs FISA Compromise," The Politico's "Ben Smith" Blog, www.politico.com, 6/20/08)

CHANGE #11: Barack Obama Disagreed With The Supreme Court Decision Striking Down The Use Of The Death Penalty For A Convicted Child Rapist Although In The Past He Opposed The Death Penalty

When Asked About Today's Supreme Court Decision Striking Down The Use Of The Death Penalty For A Child Rapist, Barack Obama Stated That He Disagreed With The Decision. Reporter: "Senator, what's your reaction to the Supreme Court's decision today striking down the death penalty for a child rapist?" Obama: "I disagree with the decision. I have said repeatedly that I think that the death penalty should be applied in very narrow circumstances, for the most egregious of crimes. I think that the rape of a small child, 6 or 8 years old, is a heinous crime. And if a state makes a decision that under narrow, limited, well-defined circumstances, the death penalty is at least potentially applicable, that that does not violate our constitution. Now, I think it's -- you know, had the Supreme Court said we want to constrain the ability of the states to do this to make sure that it's done in a careful and appropriate way, that would have been one thi ng. But it basically had a blanket prohibition and I disagreed with that decision." (Sen. Barack Obama, Press Conference, Chicago, IL, 6/25/08)

Running For The Illinois State Senate In 1996, Barack Obama Opposed The Death Penalty. Question: "Do you support capital punishment?" Obama's Answer: "No." (Independent Voters Of Illinois Independent Precinct Organization 1996 General Candidate Questionnaire, Barack Obama Responses, 9/9/96)

CHANGE #12: Barack Obama Has Backtracked From His Earlier Commitment To Meet With The Leaders Of State Sponsors Of Terror "Without Precondition"

At A July 2007 Debate, Barack Obama Announced He Would Personally Meet With Leaders Of Iran, North Korea, Syria And Other Hostile Nations "Without Precondition." QUESTION: "[W]ould you be willing to meet separately, without precondition, during the first year of your administration, in Washington or anywhere else, with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea, in order to bridge the gap that divides our countries?"... OBAMA: "I would. And the reason is this, that the notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them -- which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration - is ridiculous." (CNN/YouTube Democrat Presidential Candidate Debate, Charleston, SC, 7/23/07)

The Boston Globe's Joan Vennochi: "On foreign policy, Obama went from stating that he would meet, without preconditions, with the president of Iran, to saying he would meet 'with the appropriate Iranian leaders at a time and place of my choosing - if and only if - it can advance the interests of the United States.'" (Joan Vennochi, Op-Ed, "Obama And McCain Flip-Flop, Flip-Flop," The Boston Globe, 6/22/08)

CHANGE #13: After Saying Jerusalem Should Be "Undivided," Barack Obama Has Since Backtracked

At The Annual AIPAC Policy Conference, Barack Obama Says Clearly That Jerusalem Should Be The "Undivided" Capital Of Israel. Obama: "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided." (Sen. Barack Obama, Remarks At The Annual AIPAC Policy Conference, Arlington, VA, 6/4/08)

One Day After The AIPAC Conference, Barack Obama Said The Future Of Jerusalem Would Have To Be Negotiated By Israel And The Palestinians. CNN's Candy Crowley: "I want to ask you about something you said in AIPAC yesterday. You said that Jerusalem must remain undivided. Do Palestinians have no claim to Jerusalem in the future?" Obama: "Well, obviously, it's going to be up to the parties to negotiate a range of these issues." (CNN's "The Situation Room," 6/5/08)

CHANGE #14: As A Presidential Candidate, Barack Obama Has Backed Away From His Earlier Support For Normalized Relations With Cuba And Ending The Embargo

Barack Obama: "As president, I'll maintain the embargo it's an important inducement for change because we know that Castro's death will not guarantee freedom." (Beth Reinhard, "It's Got A Good Beat And You Can Dance To It," The Miami Herald's "Naked Politics" Blog, 8/25/07)

"In January 2004, Obama Said It Was Time 'To End The Embargo With Cuba' Because It Had 'Utterly Failed In The Effort To Overthrow Castro.'" ("Top Obama Flip-Flops," The Washington Post, 2/25/08)

Barack Obama: "I think it's time for us to end the embargo with Cuba." (Sen. Barack Obama, Remarks At Southern Illinois University, Carbondale, IL, 1/20/04)

CHANGE #15: Barack Obama Is Against The California Ballot Measure Banning Gay Marriage Despite His Assertion That Marriage Is Between A Man And A Woman

Barack Obama Came Out Against A California Ballot Measure That Would Ban Same-Sex Marriage. "Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, who previously said the issue of gay marriage should be left up to each state, has announced his opposition to a California ballot measure that would ban same-sex marriages. In a letter to the Alice B. Toklas LGBT Democratic Club read Sunday at the group's annual Pride Breakfast in San Francisco, the Illinois senator said he supports extending 'fully equal rights and benefits to same-sex couples under both state and federal law.'" (Aurelio Rojas, "Obama Rejects Proposed California Gay Marriage Ban," Sacramento Bee, 7/1/08)

"Obama Had Previously Said He Opposes Same-Sex Marriage But That Each State Should Make Its Own Decision." (Aurelio Rojas, "Obama Rejects Proposed California Gay Marriage Ban," Sacramento Bee, 7/1/08)

CHANGE #16: Barack Obama Says That "Mental Distress" Should Not Be Reason For A Late Term Abortion Which Contradicts His Past Extreme Pro-Abortion Views

Barack Obama: Mental Distress Should Not Be A Reason For A Late Term Abortion. "I have repeatedly said that I think it's entirely appropriate for states to restrict or even prohibit late-term abortions as long as there is a strict, well-defined exception for the health of the mother. Now, I don't think that 'mental distress' qualifies as the health of the mother. I think it has to be a serious physical issue that arises in pregnancy, where there are real, significant problems to the mother carrying that child to term." (Sen. Barack Obama Interview, Relevant Magazine, 7/1/08)

Barack Obama Appears To Have Backed Away "From His Long-Stated Positions On Abortion." "In a recent interview, Obama appears to back away from his long-stated positions on abortion (and a proposed federal abortion rights law he had co-sponsored), repudiate 35 years of accepted Supreme Court rulings on the issue and embrace a view on abortion restrictions that has been expressed on the Court only by Justices Thomas and Scalia." (Jan Crawford Greenburg, "Obama: Sounding Like Thomas And Scalia?" http://blogs.abcnews.com, 7/4/08)

CHANGE #17: Barack Obama Said He Would Debate "Anywhere, Anytime" But Has Rejected Joint Town Hall Meetings

Barack Obama Says He Would Debate John McCain "Anywhere, Anytime." OBAMA: "I am happy to have a debate with John McCain and George Bush about foreign policy. If John McCain wants to meet me anywhere, anytime, to have a debate about our respective policies in Iraq, Iran, the Middle East or around the world, that is a conversation I am happy to have. Because I believe that there is no separation between John McCain and George Bush when it comes to our Middle East policy and I think their policy has failed." (Barack Obama, Media Availability, Watertown, SD, 5/16/08)

However, Barack Obama Has Rejected Joint Town Hall Meetings. "Avoiding town hall meetings and rejecting public campaign financing may be predictable strategies for minimizing one of McCain's greatest strengths and exploiting one of his key weaknesses. But they pull Obama down into the cynical political calculations he pledged to rise above." (Editorial, "Obama's Big Words Ring Hollow," St. Petersburg Times, 6/20/08)

Change #18: Barack Obama decides to tap the strategic oil reserve.

“Sen. Obama has looked at this issue, he recognizes that Americans are suffering, that we have a unique situation with rising gas prices and this is one occasion where we need to look at this strategically and he made the decision that we need to tap the strategic petroleum reserves.”

Obama last month said he did not think the country should use the strategic oil reserves "at this point."

"I have said and in fact supported a congressional resolution that said we should suspend putting more oil into the strategic oil reserve but the strategic oil reserve I think has to be reserved for a genuine emergency," he said on July 7.

CNN

Change #19: Obama now says he's "open" to oil drilling.

Obama said Friday that he would be willing to compromise on his position against offshore oil drilling if it were part of a more overarching strategy to lower energy costs.

"My interest is in making sure we've got the kind of comprehensive energy policy that can bring down gas prices," Obama told The Palm Beach Post early into a two-day swing through Florida.

But on Saturday morning, Obama said this "wasn't really a new position."

"I made a general point about the fact that we need to provide the American people some relief and that there has been constructive conversations between Republicans and Democrats in the Senate on this issue," he said during a press conference in Cape Canaveral.

"What I will not do, and this has always been my position, is to support a plan that suggests this drilling is the answer to our energy problems," Obama added.

"If we've got a plan on the table that I think meets the goals that America has to set and there are some things in there that I don't like, then obviously that's something that I would consider because that's the nature of how we govern in a democracy."

The senator from Illinois has spoken out against offshore drilling since Sen. John McCain in June proposed striking down the federal moratorium banning offshore oil and gas drilling to help alleviate high gas prices. See where offshore drilling is allowed

"When I'm president, I intend to keep in place the moratorium here in Florida and around the country that prevents oil companies from drilling off Florida's coasts," Obama told reporters in Jacksonville in late June. "That's how we can protect our coastline and still make the investments that will reduce our dependence on foreign oil and bring down gas prices for good."

CNN

Change #20: Obama flip flops in the same sentence in response to a seven year old girl's question about why he wants to be president. Obama wants to turn back the clock and more forward; Back to the Future?


Change #21: Obama doesn't know correct stance on Georgia.

First, a moral equivalency position because he didn't know what he was talking about and hadn't talked to his 300 foreign policy advisers:

Chicago, IL -- "I strongly condemn the outbreak of violence in Georgia, and urge an immediate end to armed conflict. Now is the time for Georgia and Russia to show restraint, and to avoid an escalation to full scale war. Georgia's territorial integrity must be respected. All sides should enter into direct talks on behalf of stability in Georgia, and the United States, the United Nations Security Council, and the international community should fully support a peaceful resolution to this crisis."

Second, McCain's position:

"I condemn Russia's aggressive actions and reiterate my call for an immediate ceasefire... Russia must stop its bombing campaign, cease flights of Russian aircraft in Georgian airspace, and withdraw its ground forces from Georgia."

Change #22: Obama insists he voted for protecting infants who survive abortion, but he actually voted against just such a law. When he insisted that he only voted against it because it would water down abortion, he lied because the law included such a provision.

Change #23: Obama said, at the Saddleback forum that he thinks marriage is between a man and a woman, but would vote against a federal amendment saying so because it would prohibit people from visiting their lovers in hospitals. California has a proposition that defines marriage as being between a man and a woman and doesn't restrict civil unions. He won't support it.

Change #24:

STATEMENT: "Originally, the administration suggested that the key measure was whether it gave breathing room for political reconciliation. So far, I think we have not seen the kind of political reconciliation that’s going to bring about long-term stability in Iraq." — Barack Obama, July 22, 2008

EXPIRATION DATE: August 20, 2008: "Let's be clear, our troops have completed every mission they've been given," Mr. Obama said at the Veterans of Foreign Wars convention in Orlando, Fla., where the likely Democratic presidential nominee courted military voters who are expected to play a pivotal role in several swing states. "They have created the space for political reconciliation."

Change #25:

Obama was friends with domestic terrorist William Ayers and then "denounced" him.

http://www.nelsonguirado.com/index.php/asymmetric/2008/07/09/comprehensive-obama-flip-flop-list

Scully
08-28-2008, 18:56
Yep one sucks and the other blows. "WE'RE SCREWED '08"

e80hydro
08-28-2008, 20:02
:):):):)