Kel tec 380

[kmunch]

Just picked up a kel tec 380 awesome pocket gun

[Jim Mc]

Congrats on the new 380. My wive has been thinking about a Ruger LCP but now that people are reporting broken parts on them within 500 rounds I thought we'd hold off a bit and look at the Kahr that's coming out soon. She wants a 380 that's lighter than the Colt Governement Model 380 she normally carries now.

The Kel Tec looks intersting but I have been concerned with quality. Now that you've got one in your hands, what do you think of its quality? How much did it cost you? How many rounds have you put through it? How is the recoil in such a light firearm? How many magazines came with it? What do extra magazines cost? The Kahr is proably going to cost twice or more what I think the KT's are going for so I'm not sure if they're worth it or not? Perhaps the Kel Tec is the answer.
Jim

[woodchuckssuck]

Bersa .380's get great reviews, but they are a bit bigger and maybe heavier than a kel-tec. Bigger is good for somone with big hands, however. Kel-tec would be best for a pocket gun (they are small!)

[gossman]

Kel-Tec's are small and flat enough to not leave an imprint in the pocket. If one has to carry a .380, this is it (IMHO:D) but only if you shoot quality ammo and it digests it well. Better than a fist and light enough to carry everyday. A 1911 may be the best (again IMHO:D) but does you no good if you leave it at home or in the car.

[Jim Mc]

Yep, I hear you both. She has her own Combat Commander and Baretta 92, both of which she shoots well. But, when it comes to leaving the house she complains about the weight. She has toted the 380 Governement Model with Hydra Shocks for years, but then saw the news about the new Ruger and how little it weighs. That started the interest in "smaller and lighter". I'll keep steering her towards a tiny 9 mm, maybe the Kel Tec. It's lighter than her GM and certainly has more punch than the 380. Thanks for the comments.

[Rapier]

The KelTec 380 is a very good carry gun. I first saw them as a prototype at the Shot Show and ordered 4. I have been carrying one and shooting it since we received shipment. It is well made, digests all of the 380 ammo I have run through it. Right now it sports Gold Dot HPs. The recoil is very suprising, it is mild. The accuracy is minute of a coffe cup at 10 yards, but that is quite enough for the little gun. I bought a rubber extensiom for the mag so I can hold the gun with two fingers below the triggerguard, I have big hands.

The first thin I did with mine was to take it apart and clean it with Sweet Shooter, then dip and let it drip dry, six times. I shoot it dry, using the polimer in sweet shooter as a lube and protectant.

It fits in a front shirt pocket which is a great CC location. But most times mine is in my back pocket under a hankerchief.

The thing about the KelTec is that you carry it, it is not a truck gun or sock drawer gun.
Best,
Ed

[kmunch]

Have put 200 rds thru the kel tec with no problems I feel Quality is high and it rides in my pocket just great. Im in real estate my mode of dress only allows pocket carry in the summer and I feel that 380 is fine for self defence with well placed shots

[Jim Mc]

Thanks kmunch. People seem to feel pretty positively about the Kel tec. I was posted at Ft. Sill in the early 70's for a short while and recall the "summer warmth", so I can appreciate how handy a small handgun is in your part of the world.

[kmunch]

i have been looking at the kel tec P-11 9mm

[collegeb]

i prefer the p-11 over the pf-9. the p-11 is a little larger but has more capacity.

[Walkenbear]

If you are looking for a quality self defense round for the 380 Keltec I would recommend Buffalo Bore. They make 2, 380 +P loads. Both generate the energy of a standard 38 spl, right at 220 ftlbs. The owner of Buffalo Bore personally carries a 380 Keltec loaded with his ammo, oddly enough he prefers the FMJ. He has told me he has put hundreds of rounds through his Keltec without any problems. They are also loaded with low flash powder to help prevent night blindness if used at night.

Bufalo Bore (http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#380)

[SCCogswell]

Buffalo Bore is excellent ammo. The owner's preference for FMJ or solids in the .380 is mebbe not so odd; more to the point, it's refreshingly honest. Unlike some small ammo companies, he doesn't hype some ammo featuring a "supersecret Unobtanium hyperalloy with a quadjillion foot-inches of quantum particle acceleration, as used by tacticool Ninja SWAT Operators around the world!" just to sell ammo. He makes it pretty clear that, in the real world, .380ACP just doesn't have enough case capacity to drive a heavy enough bullet fast enough to both expand and penetrate deeply enough to reliably make holes in important stuff. You can get expansion, but you give up adequate penetration.

His idea of a relatively heavy solid with a wide flat nose just plain works, whether it's a .380 against a 300lb man or a .45-70 against a 1 ton buffalo. If you make holes in important stuff, they fall down. If not, they keep coming. Simple as that. If the bullet totally perforates whatever you're shooting, it's a bonus: the extra hole on the off-side lets more blood out and more air in.
Cogswell

[Walkenbear]

Yes I can see your points and agree. Free thinking flies in the face of "conventional" wisdom. Also worth noting is that Buffalo Bore is located in Montana, in the winter a real cold weather state. Heavy clothing would be better penetrated by a FMJ bullet.

[Corelogik]

Congrats on the new 380. My wive has been thinking about a Ruger LCP but now that people are reporting broken parts on them within 500 rounds I thought we'd hold off a bit and look at the Kahr that's coming out soon. She wants a 380 that's lighter than the Colt Governement Model 380 she normally carries now.

The Kel Tec looks intersting but I have been concerned with quality. Now that you've got one in your hands, what do you think of its quality? How much did it cost you? How many rounds have you put through it? How is the recoil in such a light firearm? How many magazines came with it? What do extra magazines cost? The Kahr is proably going to cost twice or more what I think the KT's are going for so I'm not sure if they're worth it or not? Perhaps the Kel Tec is the answer.
Jim

Since you're looking for reviews and opinions of the KT P3AT here's one from another owner,

I paid $280ish for mine out the door with all taxes and fees, I believe the base price of the pistol was around $250, it came with one magazine but the shop had an extra to sell me for 20 something bucks. Kel-Tec sells magazines for it for $21.20 + shipping. I have 600+ rounds through mine being a mix of FMJ & HP's. All brands I have tried work well after minor tweaking to the gun.

Mods the gun 'required';
1.) Take some emery cloth or a fine polishing wheel and lightly polish the feed ramp.
2.) Take some fine grain sandpaper and 'melt' all the outside edges on the frame. Your hands will thank you tremendously.
3.) Go to the hardware store and buy an appropriate sized 'nylon reinforced spacer' trim to about 1/16" with a dremel, place inside the recoil guide hole on the slide. (you can take your recoil guide rod and slide with you for proper fitting.

Explanation of #3) Some early units were released with the slide hole for the recoil guide rod drilled to deep, this would allow the guide rod to not ride fully center and 'wobble' in the guide rod hole. As a result the opening would eventually open up allowing the springs to ride through. From what I understand Kel-Tec is aware of the problem and will fix or replace any slide returned to them within the affected serial range. I also understand that the problem has been corrected for newer production. The nylon spacer keeps the guide rod centered and acts as a buffer of sorts.

Recoil;
As you will imagine recoil from such a small, light package is brisk. It likes to twist up out of your hand, to counter this I highly recommend that you buy one of two accessories from Kel-Tec. Either the +1 mag extension or the finger rest extension for your magazines. Either one will go miles toward helping control the weapon and do not, in my opinion, hinder the conceal-ability of the piece. Personally I have tried both and ended up putting a trimmed down slightly finger rest type on mine. (aren't dremel's great)

Sights;
Well, technically they have some,... the sights are so tiny on the P3AT that they may as well not be there for me. Some use them just fine, I just ignore them. I view the P3AT as an up close and personal type of weapon and tend to just point shoot with great effectiveness, enough so that I passed my CCW class with it.

Grip;
As you can imagine it is rather small. I have found that adding a section of bicycle inner tube helps a lot without adding any bulk. Others have used a Hogue Hand-All Jr. just fine. Either way this is something you will need to decide for yourself after trying it out.

Overall;
My P3At is a fine weapon. I carry it daily everywhere I am legally allowed to do so. I trust it, I depend on it. If you choose to carry hollow points, be sure to get one that is as close to the rounded profile of an FMJ as you can, Gold Dots have worked well in mine.

I consider the P3AT to be a perfectly capable and acceptable weapon for use in the CCW role. I call mine the 'Pocket Rocket'

YMMV!

[Joe Garibaldi]

I have a P-11 and have no complaints. But I've read a lot of reports about the .380 that the cases fly straight into the shooter's face. Can any owners comment on this?

[Corelogik]

I have a P-11 and have no complaints. But I've read a lot of reports about the .380 that the cases fly straight into the shooter's face. Can any owners comment on this?

I have not had that issue, all ejection from mine is consistently and forcefully right and to the rear,... ohhh call it about 4'-6'.

My Walther P22 on the hand,... don't even get me started.

If you're experiencing erratic or inconsistent ejection, I would recommend you check your extractor screw, it may not be holding the case rim securely. As I said I haven't had this issue, but the guys over at KTOG recommend a drop of blue loc-tite for this problem.

[Jim Mc]

Thanks for taking the time to write your excellent KT P3AT review, Corelogik. I have been watching other boards discussing the small 380 issue and the consensus seems to be that the KT is the way to go. Some folks are waiting for the Kahr to come out, but that will likely be at a different price point. My wife read the article about the Ruger in the latest American Rifleman that came this week and is after me again to find her something that small and light. I think it will be the KT. Thanks again for the review.
Jim

[Corelogik]

You're welcome.

[Joe Garibaldi]

Thanks for all the info, Corelogik. I might be able to get her to take a second look at it.

FWIW, I've found the bluing on my P-11 to wear off very quickly. Since I wear it with a belt clip, the slide was growing rust. I solved the problem with a coat of high-heat engine paint and it's worked very well. Not pretty, but Kel-Tec's ain't made to be pretty ;)