beardenbc
04-28-2008, 08:28
So after a disappointing look for a good mini-30 wood stock, I've decided that my best bet will probably be to buy a Ruger factory m30 wood stock from brownells and stain the thing myself.
I want to get a nice green colored wood stain on it, but the only green woodstain I've been able to find is this (http://www.minwax.com/products/wood_stains/water_based_wood_stain.cfm) water based variety (I'm thinking the "early spring" color), but I hear everyone talking about using the oil based kind.
Would this be ok, or should I try and look elsewhere? I've got loads of time on my hands, so if using waterbased only means that it will take longer, that's not a problem for me. I just REALLY want a green colored stain.
Also, any tricks of the trade would be helpful since I've never worked with wood. I know staining is only one part of a longer process, so any help would do me some good.
woodiepoo
05-02-2008, 07:05
Beardenc staining is quite easy,in my opinion I would use the oil,helps to preserve the wood better.You might try and go to a good paint store and look at sample colors of different wood samples.Tell them what kinda wood you want to apply the stain to,like the walnut,usually in a gun stock to get you closer to how the stain will turn out with your stock.You may even take the stock to the store to try testing places on the stock to see if you like the color,sand your test spot a little because unfinished wood will fool ya a little with the results.You mite get some looks if you take the stock in the store but oh well !
You shouldn't need no more than just a pint.I would see if when they make you up some if the color isn't what you like that they would exchange it,they usually will.
When you get the stock apply it somewhere on the stock that wont be noticeable,like the end of the butt stock or underneath the barrel to see if you like the color.
Now to the prep,sanding,myself I would start off with 200 grit paper maybe, then go all the way to 400 grit paper, be careful and don't take off more wood than what you want to remove,the 400 hundred will take off less wood,then you will want to use 0000 aught steel wool before the stain to make it silky smooth.
When I get to the steel wool stage after the stain would dry,I use the steel wool to polish the wood even more in between cotes.It'll make Ye proud of Ere.
Its your gun I wouldn't just settle for Minwax its OK but there is better out there,not quite sure of the different oil's out there as to which one is better, the post above would be a good start.
You may want to look at something to put on Ere after you get it stained to seal it so dirt and grime doesn't get into the wood from your hands from cleaning the gun,theres polyurethane but its a little harder to work with.
The stuff if you work it to much it has a tendency to bubble and if you don't mix it right.I use mineral spirits and put three cotes on,the first cote I mix I think 1/2 and 1/2 then 1 part mineral then full strength with a sponge brush,less bubbles that way.Also steel wool in between cotes and after finish of the last cote.
If you don't like the results of the poly you can sand it rite off,done that before on a muzzle loader and finally used linseed oil but it will darken the wood and takes weeks to get it too my specs,takes allot of hand rubbing.
There was at one time a product called bar top like what they put on the top of bars that was tuff stuff and would shine.
I thought this was too good not to save.
Basic Stock Refinishing by Boogyman (a prior PerfectUnion member):
I. Disassembly & Stripping:
You must remove all the wood pieces from the metal pieces, but you also have to remove ALL the metal pieces from the wood pieces! That includes butt-plate, sling-swivel studs, trigger-guard, grip-cap, etc. On pump guns it's best to even remove the tube-runner, cocking-lever bracket, or any other metal pieces that might be in the wood forearm. All metal should be gone from the wood.
There are several different ways to strip the old finish off. I always start with a chemical stripper & try it first. Acetone works sometimes, regular or heavy-duty paint stripper is the best. Apply it, let it set for 10 minutes, then see if it's softening up that old finish. If it is, then first scrape off the bulk of it using either a hard plastic scraper with a smooth edge, or a piece of hardwood, using the edge to scrape with. BE CAREFUL, don't use anything that will put gouges or scratches in the stock! Use something that is a little softer than the wood that the stock is made from.
After you get most of it off by scraping, apply some more stripper, & use a medium soft Scotch-Brite pad, or a sanding sponge, or medium steel wool to get the rest of the old finish out of the crevices & hard-to-reach areas. If there is checkering on the stock, use an old toothbrush or other plastic-bristle brush to get into the checkering. DON'T DAMAGE THE CHECKERING & again, be careful not to put gouges or scratches in the wood, it makes the whole process ten times harder and longer to sand those scratches out later.
If you don't have any chemicals, or they just won't work on the old finish, then your just gonna have to do it the hard way. Get some 60 or 80-grit sandpaper & get at it! SAND WITH THE GRAIN! Every last bit of finish must be removed, all the wood has to be evenly exposed all over all the stock and forearm (if any), as fresh and open-pored as it was when it was first turned out. DO NOT use sandpaper on the checkering, or try to scrape out between the cuts with a knife or something, unless you already have experience at this & know what your doing. If you can't get it cleaned out with paint stripper, then you'll have to get it re-cut by an experienced checkering expert after you're done with the rest of it, & BEFORE you start re-staining & refinishing, or it'll look like crap.
II. Sanding & Preperation:
You're gonna need at least 2 full sheets EACH in the following grits:
80 grit
100 grit
150 grit
220 grit
320 grit
Now if you've successfully removed the finish with chemicals & there are no major dings, nicks or scratches, then you can start with the 100 grit. But if you have some defects, you'll need to start with the 80 grit, or maybe even 60. If you removed the finish with 60 grit instead of chemicals, then continue with the 60 for removing the defects before you go to the 80.
One sheet of sandpaper will make 4 quarter sheets. Fold the sheet in half, cut or tear it along the fold. Then fold each half again & do the same. You'll be able to tell when a 1/4 sheet is worn out when it's not sanding very well.
Use the 80 grit to smooth out any dings or scratches. SAND WITH THE GRAIN. Don't concentrate in any one spot, you'll end up with a dip or depression. If you have a deep gouge, you have two choices: either sand the whole area around it evenly until it's gone, or use a stainable wood putty to fill it in. If you use the putty, let it dry overnight before continuing.
If there is checkering, it's a good idea to tape it over with masking tape. You can VERY CAREFULLY trim the edges off with an exacto knife or razor blade. Don't sand over the checkering!
Make sure you have sanded the entire stock evenly with all the sanding in the same direction, with the grain, before moving to the next grit. DO NOT SKIP STAGES. If you do, you'll have scratches all over that will show up when you apply the stain and finish. When your done with the 80 grit, then move to the 100 grit, & then the 150, & so on.
Remember you MUST cover the entire surface evenly with each stage. As you are sanding, hold it up to the light, looking for scratches & defects. It takes about 20 to 30 minutes for each stage to do a good job. This is the most important part of the whole process, any scratches left after this will stick out like a sore thumb when you apply the stain. So be thorough, patient, and take your time.
When you're done with the 320 grit, the wood will feel silky smooth all over & there should be NO scratches visible.
If there is checkering that still has the old finish in it, now is the time to get it re-cut. Let a pro do this, you might try it yourself but you'll most likely screw it up. It takes a steady hand, experience, & the right tools.
That should keep you busy for a couple more days; then we'll be ready for the staining and finishing.
III. Staining:
Now it's time to decide on your stain; or not. I have done a few stocks in "blonde", in other words, no stain at all & went right to the finish. Sometines they look good that way, it depends on the type of grain in the wood, if it's "boring" then I'd stain it. If it has some nice "marbling" or other interesting grain I'd consider no stain at all, or maybe a lighter maple or something. But good grain patterns will also show up well when stained too.
I almost always use dark walnut, or antique walnut. The darker & browner the better. I've used red or "Bombay" mahogany before but I just don't like the reddish tint to it. You might, it's a matter of taste. Oak stains are lighter, & work well with interesting grains. I prefer Minwax or Formsby brand. STAIN ONLY! Don't get that "combination" crap that's half stain, half polyurethane, it sucks dog****.
Anyway, once you decide on the stain, get the wood ready. It's important to rig up some way to hang the wood pieces from the ceiling or somewhere warm & dry & they won't be disturbed for days at a time. I use wire coat-hangers, sometimes I run it through a hole on the stock somewhere, or a bolt-hole or anywhere that you can hold the piece by the wire & not have to touch the wood anywhere. If you touch it during the finishing process, or it falls on the floor, you'll have to start all over again from the beginning!
Wipe all the wood down good with a dry rag, make sure there is no oil or dirt or anything. I use compressed air to blow all the sawdust clean out of the nooks and crannies. Shake up your can of stain real good before opening. Have a small, clean, lint-free cloth ready. Do this in a well-lighted area, preferably with lights all around your work so you can see every piece without shadow.
This is the fun part! Dip your cloth into the stain & begin applying it to the wood. Use long, smooth strokes with the grain & cover every inch all at once. Don't worry about excess or streaks at this point. You will see the wood come to life before your eyes, the rich color and grain will appear like magic. Make sure you get it all covered evenly, & do all the pieces at once. It's important so they all match correctly.
Now put the lid back on the can and wait about 15-20 minutes. Don't wait any longer or the excess will get gluey & will be a bitch to get off. Use a clean, dry rag & wipe the excess off so there are no streaks & the color is even all over. Once all the wood is wiped clean, then leave it hanging and just walk away from it! I know you will be tempted to put more stain on right away, but just force yourself to walk away and leave it alone for a good 12 hours. A fan in the room helps dry it, & turning it once or twice during this time is good, but don't touch it!
After at least 12 hours you can handle it. Look at it and see if all the pieces match in color. If a piece is lighter or darker than the rest then it's probably a different type of wood. You can correct this by doing extra applications on the lighter pieces so they will "catch up" to the dark ones. You'll do this once you are satisfied with the darkest pieces, set those aside & give the lighter pieces another application or two until they're even with the others.
I usually do at least 2-3 applications, sometimes up to 5 or 6, depending how dark I want it. Older, antique guns look better the darker you get it.
To apply a second coat, first take some FINE or "000" steel wool & go over the entire stock with it LIGHTLY. You don't want to rub the stain off, you just want to smooth it out evenly, take any little hairs or bug footprints or tiny imperfections off. Then apply more stain, wait 20 minutes, wipe off the excess, and wait another 12 hours.
Each application will make it darker. You decide when it's dark enough. Remember when you apply the final finish it will darken it slightly more. The steel wool between each application is important, this helps to keep it smooth and keeps the grain open to accept more stain or finish.
This is gonna take a few days, have patience! Resist the temptation to mess with it, leave it dry the full 12 hours or longer. You can't go TOO long, the dryer it is, the better it will soak up more stain. When you're all done with this I'll tell you about two different ways to do the final finishing, the most important part!
IV. Finishing:
Tung oil method:
Now that your stain is dry, go over the entire stock lightly with fine, "000" steel wool. You just want to take any little dried bubbles or bug footprints off. It'll feel nice and smooth when you're done. Wipe clean with a dry, soft cloth.
USING THE STEEL WOOL BETWEEN EACH PROCESS IS THE SECRET TO A PROFESSIONAL FINISH! This is true with both the stain & the oil or polyurethane. Keeping the wood smooth is how it turns out like glass in the end!
Now take a small, clean, cotton cloth & soak some tung oil into it. Rub it into the wood, moving with the grain. Keep rubbing until the wood has soaked it up & feels rather dry again. Then re-wet your cloth & start again. The first time will soak up a lot of oil. Keep rubbing, rubbing, rubbing!
When it gets to the point where it won't take any more oil, there will be a thin film of wetness that won't rub dry anymore. Keep wiping until it is smooth, you don't want to leave any streaks or excess. Then hang it up and leave it dry for a FULL 24 HOURS.
After 24 hours, take your steel wool & go over it lightly again like you did before. Then repeat the oil-rubbing with a fresh, clean cloth. It won't take as long to reach the saturation point the second time. Hang it up for another FULL 24 HOURS. Then do the whole thing again, making sure to use the steel wool every time.
After 3 or 4 days of this, you'll notice a hard , shiny surface begin to build up on the wood. This is what you want. The more you oil it, the harder & thicker it will get. I've done over 20 applications on some stocks, they turn out just incredible, like a deep, glossy clear-coat.
You can stop when you are satisfied, but do at least 3 coats. Finsh it up with a final light steel-wooling.
If the stock ever starts looking dull again, you can always take off the metal & rub some more oil into it. If you do this every year or two, the wood eventually turns out just amazing!
Spray Polyurethane method:
As before, use fine steel wool to smooth and "prep" the surface. Then wipe clean with a soft cloth.
Hang the stock up in a well-ventilated area with good light. You want light sources from several directions so there is no shadow on the wood anywhere. You want the temperature to be at least 72 degrees, the warmer the better.
Now shake up your can real good. It should have a little adjustment on the nozzle to change the spray pattern from vertical to horizontal. If your stock is hanging vertically, you want a horizontal spray. Test it on a practice surface, hold the can about 10-12 inches from the wood & move it up & down in slow passes or strokes.
Now start on your stock. Press the nozzle above the stock & move down slowly. Then the next stroke move upwards, slightly over from the first stroke. Work your way around the entire stock this way. KEEP IT MOVING, do not stop the spray in one spot, it'll cause runs.
Don't put it on too heavy, you want a light, even coat, wet but not real glossy. If you try to put it on too thick you'll end up with runs & you'll have to start all over again. Remember, patience!
After the first coat, wait about 2 hours & apply a second coat, same thing. Take it slow & light. After the second coat, walk away and leave it alone for at least 12 hours (for fast-dry type) or 24 hours (for regular). If you can, hang the stock out in the sun, turning it every few hours. (This works good for the oil method too.)
When it's completely dry & not sticky, run the steel wool over it lightly again. Get all the little dried bubbles smooth, but BE CAREFUL & don't rub through the coating down to the wood!
Now hang it back up & do another coat. Just once this time, & give it another 12 to 24 hours to dry. Then steel wool & another coat.
3 or 4 coats should do the trick. Finish it up with the steel wool lightly & you're done.
So after a disappointing look for a good mini-30 wood stock, I've decided that my best bet will probably be to buy a Ruger factory m30 wood stock from brownells and stain the thing myself.
I want to get a nice green colored wood stain on it, but the only green woodstain I've been able to find is this (http://www.minwax.com/products/wood_stains/water_based_wood_stain.cfm) water based variety (I'm thinking the "early spring" color), but I hear everyone talking about using the oil based kind.
Would this be ok, or should I try and look elsewhere? I've got loads of time on my hands, so if using waterbased only means that it will take longer, that's not a problem for me. I just REALLY want a green colored stain.
Also, any tricks of the trade would be helpful since I've never worked with wood. I know staining is only one part of a longer process, so any help would do me some good.
So, did you ever do this? Pics???
The one thing not mentioned is feathering the stock during sanding. Before the final sanding, wipe the stock down with a wet cloth, not soaking the stock, but getting same water into the wood. Let it dry. You will find the wood will have little feathers of wood. Take fine steel wool and go against the direction the wood feathers are pointing and take them off. Then do your final sanding. You will have a better finish.
Good shooting, John K
torasperry
04-16-2009, 06:55
In the process of reviving an old Remington 552 , She was pretty rough and needed to be refreshed.
Done with sanding and have applied the first coat of stain. Been following your instructions to the letter and am going to use Formbys Tung oil to finish the wood.
The wood is sitting now and I will reapply the stain later today and let it sit for another 24 hrs.
I am sure the old gun will look new again, When I finish it, THANKS Again for an informative article.
My only question is how do you remove the deep gouges in the wood? Have heard some ways, But what is the easiest and best?:confused:
Regards:):):):)
If the wood fibers are not broken and torn, you can usually lift a dent and probably part of a gouge with a damp cloth and an ordinary household iron.
Fold a damp cloth(wet enough to make steam, but not dripping) in two(section of old dish towel or wash cloth), place over the damaged/dented area, and apply the iron for a few moments.
The steam will penerate into the wood, causing the wood to expand, and lift the dent.
This is a good process to do right after your done stripping, and are getting ready to start the sanding.
Torn or severly damaged areas, are hard to bring back.
Since your using the Formby's, you can use it to fill and level a small gouge that can't be lifted....it just takes awhile. After you have several coats of tung oil on the stock, concentrate on those areas that are gouged. Use a q-tip, to place the finish right in the gouge, let dry and add some more. You can do this as much as needed. Try and be neat. When the gouge has filled, then you can resume working the whole stock at the same time again. When you have enough finish on the stock, and if there is a ridge around the gouge, wait until the oil has dried completely and sand the area lightly with some four hundred grit wet or dry(easy does it, you don't want to go thru to the stain). finish with the 4 ott steel wool, and do your last coat of oil.
PokyHokie
05-20-2009, 09:41
The one thing not mentioned is feathering the stock during sanding. Before the final sanding, wipe the stock down with a wet cloth, not soaking the stock, but getting same water into the wood. Let it dry. You will find the wood will have little feathers of wood. Take fine steel wool and go against the direction the wood feathers are pointing and take them off. Then do your final sanding. You will have a better finish.
Good shooting, John K
On open grained wood (like walnut) a tack rag may not get all the steel wool out. A good trick is to go over the stock with a magnetic cabinet latch (wraped in cloth to prevent scratches). I will collect a suprising bit of grey crud even after tack ragging.
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