Can 22 magnum work as a BUG caliber?

[timlt]

Recently I was talking to a local LEO in my area, and he said many of the officers choose to carry a .22 magnum revolver or derringer-type for a backup, rather than something like one of those tiny Kahr 9mm's, or some kind of a .380. The .22 mag I guess is even lighter and more concealable, and with some options (such as the Taurus 941 revolver), you get an 8rd capacity.

I'm curious if anyone else would be comfortable using a .22 mag as a BUG? Obviously it's better than throwing rocks. But when you think about the minimal amount of weight and size you save by going with say a 2" barreled revolver, versus a .380 semiauto or one of the tiny Kahr 9mm's, is it really worth the loss in stopping power, just to have a slightly smaller BUG?

[Der Verge]

I have considered it. To be honest, the .22 Mag carries about the same energy as the 9mm. I know there is a bid difference in the size of the hole, but we are talking BUG. Not many 9mm BUGs that fit in the ankle holster well.
Check this out.....

http://www.naaminis.com/magnum.html :D

[timlt]

I have considered it. To be honest, the .22 Mag carries about the same energy as the 9mm. I know there is a bid difference in the size of the hole, but we are talking BUG.


I would consider it as well. It would be nice to have the smaller, lighter package if it were a LOT more portable/concealable; that would be enough to swing my vote. As of yet, I haven't found something I liked that was a significant amount smaller than a Kahr MK9. Possibly one of those North American Arms derringers would do the trick. Jeff Quinn likes them (http://www.gunblast.com/Paco_BlackWidow.htm). I hadn't considered the point about the energy comparison. Most .22 mag loads I've seen, like the Federal .22 WMR, seem to run about 300 to 325 ft/lbs at the muzzle. Meanwhile my two favorite loads for my XD 9mm (Corbon-Glaser Powrball, and DoubleTap ammo 115gr +P Gold Dot) run 483 ft/lbs and 511 ft/lbs, which seems like pretty decent stopping power, more than a lot of .40 S&W loads out there. But there may be some hotter 22 mag loads out there too, I don't know. Anyway, as you implied, the energy level probably doesn't matter as much since it's a BUG, it really doesn't have to be as powerful as your primary.

[93sr20det]

Check this out.....

http://www.naaminis.com/magnum.html :D

That holster grip gun looks cool as heck!!!

[timlt]

Yes it does. I think that would work really well for concealing the pistol right in a front pocket. I don't think you could get a much faster draw than that, for just immediate, up-close and personal self protection. I just hope those 5 rounds of 22 mag are enough to cause the BG some hurt, so that you can at least get away if necessary. That's the one doubt I have. But it's still a heckuva lot better than nothing at all, or a pocket knife!

[Der Verge]

I want the Mini Master something awful..........

http://www.naaminis.com/bwmm.html Bottom one.

Anyway, you could just get a derringer in .45 colt. 2 shots of that will stop just about anyone.

[drridgway]

For several years the only weapon that I carried was my NAA 22 magnum (I traveled over my home state of Mississippi selling fire apparatus and had a weapons permit). It fits very well in my back pocket without a holster but, now that there are more holsters made for this gun, I use the leather one shown in the picture.

The closest I came to drawing my 22 magnum was in Wal Mart while my wife and I were looking for some ant poison. There were three male individuals "shopping" in the garden section also. The third time they walked through the isle we were in, one of them placed his hand on the front of our shopping cart and moved it slightly side to side. It appeared as if they were trying to get the nerve for some action.

My wife and I were very uneasy with their presence--she was almost under my left arm. My right hand was gripping the little 22 magnum (still in my back pocket) and had they shown a weapon of their own I was prepared to use its five shots.

Afterward, I did wish for a bigger gun (like my Mini-14 or BPS 12 gauge) but the little 22 magnum sure did feel good at that moment.

With it I have dispatched several possums on my back porch, armadillos and my terminally ill bird dog that I raised from a puppy.

I will seldom be without my friend the little NAA 22 magnum.

[timlt]

Believe it or not, here's a story from this month's American Rifleman magazine, that involves the use of a .22LR caliber Walther pistol in a self-defense scenario.

The shortened version is, retired preacher Bill Willis was convinced by a church member to take a ccw class. He then bought a Walther P22. One night shortly afterward, his wife woke him, and said there was an intruder. He got his pistol, and found the suspect in the bathroom. After Willis warned him 3 times that he had a gun and urged him to come out, the man came out, pretended to surrender, then pulled a knife and stabbed Willis in the arm. Willis shot and killed the assailant. [story doesn't say how many times].

The point is, I guess, that from close range, even a .22LR can be deadly. So a .22 magnum, as a backup gun when you have no other options, is a LOT better than nothing!

[93sr20det]

Or it may buy you just enough time to get your primary gun back in action. If I am a bad guy I am going to run from any bang!

[centurion]

I think I would rather an ultra lite 38 SPL.With +P Ammo , that is if you have the minimal of 5 shots for the 22 magnum , I think smith +wesson makes A new 7 shot short revolver in 22 magnum , but then you have the Question centerfire vs rimfire , which one is most likey to fire under carry for so time under A damp climate that you would be comfortable with , the 22 magnum was made for A rifle , that 300 ft /lbs of energy Idon't think your going to get that out of A sub nose revolver, an the 22 mag makes A smaller hole than the 38spl.+p JHP ., 22 mag. maydo the job or may be even the 22 lr. if thats all you have , but I would rather the 38 spl.with +p ammo. or may be even A380 auto with some Cor Bon ammo.

[DocWagon]

I wouldn't feel comfortable with a .22 magnum, 25, or a .32. Could it work? Sure, it could. Could it fail? Sure, it could. I've seen a corpse with 5 .25ACPs in the face and one in the belly and I've seen a woman survive a .45ACP that entered her chest and went out under her shoulder blade. Caliber isn't the only consideration, as we all know.

That said, I still want the odds in my favor and I want something that will punch through heavy clothing at least and preferably a car door. I don't currently carry anything smaller than .40S&W, although I do own a .380.

[gunrun45]

+1 on Doc's reply.

I carried a NAA 22mag revolver as a CCW type gun and back up gun in my sap pocket while on duty for a few years. I eventually went to a Kahr arms in 40S&W for a variety of reasons.

The NAA now resides in my training kit only. I also believe that the 9mm/38 is the bottom of the self defense caliber. Sure, you can kill with anything given the proper luck but I want all the advantage that I can get.

If the 22 is the ONLY thing you got in your hand, use it. If you can have ANYTHING else in your hand (including a knife) you might be better off.

That little NAA was realy only good up to about 5 feet away anyway. 5 feet is well within my arms reach with a good knife and I don't have to reload a knife by removing the cylinder from the gun!

Now as a last ditch "Oh s*it" gun, it works OK. Its kinda a "screw it in their eye socket" kinda gun. I can tell you that I think I was responsible for my local gun shops selling a ton of those little things to other officers I know. Many cops are honestly just to lazy to carry a second gun. With that little 22 I cound get them at least carry something. Frequently they would carry them in the folding accessory grip that allows the gun to be clipped to your pocket like a pocket knife.

I think there are many other better choices out there for everyone.

[planeflyer21]

This http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=14744&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=26806&isFirearm=Y

would make a heck of a BUG!

Jon

[HighDesertWolf]

My BUG is a charter Bull Dog 44 special, I like the idea of having a back up that has the same thump as my main weapon in 45 acp. Also I would never consider a rim fire they are just not as reliable of a primer type as a center fire.

[HighDesertWolf]

Yes it does. I think that would work really well for concealing the pistol right in a front pocket. I don't think you could get a much faster draw than that, for just immediate, up-close and personal self protection. I just hope those 5 rounds of 22 mag are enough to cause the BG some hurt, so that you can at least get away if necessary. That's the one doubt I have. But it's still a heckuva lot better than nothing at all, or a pocket knife!



I know this isnt your typical pocket knife but this is what I carry, its cold steels extra large folder the pic shows the straight edge, my knife is partially serrated. they measure about 11" open with a 5" blade. with this knife and my knowledge from prior training and practice. Im pretty sure I could do a hechuva lot more damage than 5 rounds of 22 magnum could in the same amount of time it takes to cock and fire that NAA mini revolver 5 times.

[gossman]

My only question is the weight factor. Since the an Airweight weighs about the same as most .22 guns, why reduce your effectivness? That said, I have a friend that carries a derringer in .22mag, that is truly a lightweight gun that is easily hidden. Since we are talking for backup, two shots is probably enough since if you end up in a situation that you have to go to a backup gun, if two more are not enough, you are already in deep doo-doo. This, of course, is directed to the civilians who carry, not armed officers.

[6clicks]

I'm a retired U/C narcotics detective. I carried a NA 22 LR as a BUG for years and still do. I always carry it in my front pocket with complete comfort and concealment. No, it's not a 9mm of 22 mag but it's loud and you wouldn't want to get shot in the face with it at very close range. That's about all it's good for really. I saw on a forum that someone took the clip from a pocket knife and mounted it to the grip on the NA 22 mag. It slips perfectly over the edge of the pocket just like the knife it was originally attached to and is always readily available.Very slick setup.

[Jabberwock]

I know the tiny bullets are lethal. The sister of a church member was killed about 15 years ago from a single shot to the face from a .25 acp. fmj bullet. However, given a choice of carry caliber, the trade-off point for concealibilty and power is 38 Special +P for myself. I wanted to by one of the 5 shot, 3" barrel, L-frame .44 Special revolvers that S&W made for a few years but didn't have the funds at the time. That looked to be about the ultimate carry gun to me. Maybe one in decent shape will surface around me at some point. If it does I will definitely jump on it. Right now I have a .357 j-frame as my primary loaded with 125 gr HP semi-jacketed bullets. In .357 mag of course.

[Gatorfarmer]

I owned an NAA Mini with the flip grip and convertible .22LR/.22 Mag cylinders. With the .22 Magnum cylinder in place, the gun would keyhole badly, and a trip back to NAA (on my nickle) didn't fix the problem. Penetration might already be an issue, and keyholing wouldn't help. It only happened to me once, but others have told me that it has happened to them as well, that the hammer moved from it's safety notch between the cylinders and ended up sitting at half cock over the primer of a round. This will happen should the exposed hammer catch on clothing.

I sold mine and wouldn't buy one again. I much prefered the Kel Tec P32 (loaded with ball) as a "very small/very light" gun.

These days, my smallest gun is a DAO J frame SW 442 (no dash). If someone wears a vest, it's a relatively easy matter to conceal a Smith and Wesson J frame attached to the carrier of your armor. They also fit nicely in a pocket. (I had an even lighter 337 in the past, but I don't think the weight savings is worst the extra cost.)

[uncle jerky]

I have the Cobra Big Bore derringer in 38 special and will get the .380 switch-out barrel for it that Cobra offers. .380 is about as light as I'd like to get on a BUG.

[Decker]

If I was one of the boys in blue I think about the only BUG I would want, is to be carried by someone else wearing the same uniform.

:beer:

[collegeb]

I'd consider a kel tec. They are pretty small and come in several different calibers. Would you consider a semi auto less dependable than a revolver as a BUG?

[6clicks]

I'd consider a kel tec. They are pretty small and come in several different calibers. Would you consider a semi auto less dependable than a revolver as a BUG?

Yes.

[drridgway]

After running over 2000 rounds through my M&P .40 S&W, my little friend, the NAA .22 Magnum began to feel really small in my back pocket (The posts above also contributed to that shrinking feeling).

Today I purchased two Ruger LCP .380s, one for my back pocket and one for my wife. The little Ruger has really impressed me after shooting less than 50 rounds. The fit and finish is nice and it works very well.

I shot the 1.430" group in the image below off-hand at five yards after shooting about 30 rounds at six-inch and four-inch steel targets at 12 yds. (I hit five targets out of six shots one round).

IMO Ruger has a winner with the LCP.

Now I have to break the news to my NAA .22 magnum ...

[uncle jerky]

Earlier in this topic, I ruled out anything smaller than 380,but those NAA 22 mags are looikng pretty good or bad,depending on what end of the gun you are on :D I think I'll hunt for one of the NAA Black Widows in 22mag.

[DrMaxit]

I think that the poll should have had the 9mm and .38sp together, not the .38sp with the .380. Just my opinions, the damned .38sp doesn't **** around. 158gr full lead semi wad cutter hollow points. Sure the "engery" and "velocity" isn't that impressive on paper, but shoot something with it, you'll be like 'DDAAAAMMNNN.'

--Chuck

[Chevelle427]

That holster grip gun looks cool as heck!!!


i have one of that type. my hand fits it OK, down side is you have to open the gun out of the holster to use it so your reaction time is slower to respond, and until it gets broken in it can be a little pain to get closed.
the close buttons are stiff to push in to close it back up. all n all i like it, works well, its the wife's gun but I will carry it along depending on what clothes IM wearing.

its a close range get somebody off you gun.
5 shots and get the heck out of there .:o
(it is a pain to reload):( but after you shoot it some you get the hang of the reloading steps.:)

[Deaf Smith]

I'd prefer the Ruger LCP or P3AT for a BUG. Centennial airwight in .38 or maybe the new .327 S&W. A .22 Magnum might work in the J frame presuasion if it has 8 rounds, but in a NNA... no. Accuracy, well I mean any symbolance of serious accuracy is simply not in the cards.

[planeoldguy]

I have considered it. To be honest, the .22 Mag carries about the same energy as the 9mm. I know there is a bid difference in the size of the hole, but we are talking BUG. Not many 9mm BUGs that fit in the ankle holster well.
Check this out.....

http://www.naaminis.com/magnum.html :D
I've got one with a slghtly longer barrel, nice toy!

[planeoldguy]

I owned an NAA Mini with the flip grip and convertible .22LR/.22 Mag cylinders. With the .22 Magnum cylinder in place, the gun would keyhole badly, and a trip back to NAA (on my nickle) didn't fix the problem. Penetration might already be an issue, and keyholing wouldn't help. It only happened to me once, but others have told me that it has happened to them as well, that the hammer moved from it's safety notch between the cylinders and ended up sitting at half cock over the primer of a round. This will happen should the exposed hammer catch on clothing.

I sold mine and wouldn't buy one again. I much prefered the Kel Tec P32 (loaded with ball) as a "very small/very light" gun.

These days, my smallest gun is a DAO J frame SW 442 (no dash). If someone wears a vest, it's a relatively easy matter to conceal a Smith and Wesson J frame attached to the carrier of your armor. They also fit nicely in a pocket. (I had an even lighter 337 in the past, but I don't think the weight savings is worst the extra cost.)
NAA has a free fix for this.
http://www.naaminis.com/naasafe.html