Slipping strut

[kkina]

One of our first users reported great results, but ran into a problem with the strut not staying put. Even with a little Loctite, the struts walked down the barrel from the force of recoil. I've seen this problem intermittently also, but a drop of Loctite and retorquing always seemed to solve the problem. I want to confer with my production engineer a little further, but for now want to offer a couple tips.

1. the clamps are supplied with a heavy coating of anti-corrosion grease. This should be thoroughly degreased before installation. Probably your barrel, too.

2. I may have to supply a small amount of medium strength/high-temp Loctite with each strut. I am looking at their 246. This will hold strength at much higher temps than the stuff commonly sold at the hardware store.

I want you guys to be happy, so I will continue to research this issue until it's resolved.

[gridlock]

How about double nutting? The bolts are certainly long enough and the nuts are small enough to not distract from the appearance.

[kkina]

How about double nutting? The bolts are certainly long enough and the nuts are small enough to not distract from the appearance.

Well, it's not that the nuts are backing off, it's that the barrel surface, especially if not degreased, doesn't provide enough friction to keep the clamp from sliding.

We could design a tighter clamp, but at some point you start pinching that thin Mini barrel, so I'm not sure it would be a good idea.

We are looking into some high-strength retaining compounds (thanks Pat!) from Loctite. These are specifically designed to solve issues as this. I am not too worried about finding a simple solution.

Unfortunately it is not unusual for barrel-mounted accessories of any kind to suffer from recoil slip. That's why they invented Picatinny rails!

[kkina]

Just reinstalled my strut with Loctite 620 cylinder retaining compound, oh my God it is like welded on now. Will drag the mini out to the range and see how she holds under heat.

[pbrktrt]

did the same Kevin. trial by fire on Sat. i will keep you posted on results. i'm using the high temp sleeve retainer i told you about earlier. let me know how the 620 performs. Pat

[kkina]

Tried about 100 rounds slow-fire today. The 620 held up no problems. No slipping at all. Nest week will hit the rapid-fire range and get the barrel really lit up. If she holds I'll spec it in.

[kkina]

Hit the rapid-fire range today. Put 40 rounds through rapid fire, got the barrel smoking hot. No shifting of the strut. Broke down the strut assembly afterwards, no apparent degadation of the Loctite 620. Looks like we're good to go.

I will begin including a small tube of 620 with every strut I send out from this point on. I'd also like to send everyone who's already got one a tube, so they can lock down their struts.

[Yuppicide]

I have been eagerly awaiting your strut to hit the market for many months now. I was very interested in the idea of a product that would easily accurize the mini-14 barrel (and the M-14 look is a plus), then I saw the price tag: $75 bucks! I almost choked on my tongue!....and according to website this is the introductory price for the first batch and won't last (giving the impression that its gonna go up!):blink:

I understand that this is a capatalist society (and you can sell your product for whatever you want), and you definately deserve to make a profit for all of your hard work. That being said, I think $30-$45 is a much fairer price for a tube and some stamped metal barrel clamps.

I guess that us "less fortunate" shooters will have to end up making our own, but thanks for the idea!
-R Lachney (a.k.a. YUPPICIDE)

[timlt]

Yuppicide, I understand your reaction to the high price of gun parts in general. It's always kinda' daunting to me too, any time I buy something for my guns.

But I have to say, once you take a look at all the costs of manufacturing, liability insurance (which is HUGE for making any firearm-related item), marketing, and on and on, you will realize that this is actually a fairly reasonable price for such a device. It is very, very costly out-of-pocket to invent something yourself, and start up a new business. Not to mention the tremendous risk that you'll lose it all; something like 90% of small businesses fail. When you look at some of the other recent "inventions" for the Mini rifles, including an imitator strut (the Harbar, or whatever they call it), and a set of gas block-mounted sights, their costs are very similar. In fact, the Harbar initially was price at $50 higher than the Accustrut beta's price, and then the owner reduced the price to be competitive. My guess is, that neither of these devices would ever make a lot of profit if they are only able to charge $75 or so; believe it or not, that price level is a special offering for folks on this board, and for these guys to make a profit, they will probably have to charge higher than this eventually.

So, although I know the feeling that it hurts every time you buy something pricey for your guns, I feel that this product is very fairly priced for what you're getting. It's a well designed, classy looking piece of hardware, and I believe (based on my own tests) that it's already well proven that it makes a significant difference, even on an accurized rifle like mine. To be able to reduce your group size by this much, just by attaching a little device yourself, is incredibly convenient. Also, you should compare the price of this device, which you can attach, to the cost of modifications to your barrel, which can void your barrel's warranty with Ruger.

Anyway, I think the Accustrust is a great price when you consider the startup costs of a business, the costs of alternatives, and when you consider this is an accuracy-enhancing change you can make yourself, in a matter of minutes.

[gridlock]

I felt fortunate enough to get in on the beta launch that I bought 2, and glad I did. Haven't posted the range report yet but I'll tell you this, it's all positive. In my opinion these things "work as advertised". I will be buying another when the ss models are available (fingers crossed).

Perhaps you should go back and read the entire thread containing all the research and engineering that went into these. Have you ever developed, engineered, patented, marketed a project such as this?

When you get your $30 struts ready be sure and let us know. In the meantime.....(breathe in....breathe out).

[timlt]

We could design a tighter clamp, but at some point you start pinching that thin Mini barrel, so I'm not sure it would be a good idea.




I did not have any problems with slippage in my full day of testing, shooting multiple groups over three hours, as noted in my report in the other thread. I just followed the instructions to degrease both clamps and barrel, and tightened the clamps down really good.

The one thing I worried about, as you hinted above, was "pinching" the barrel. That Mini barrel is so fragile, and because the install directions do not give a target torque setting to tighten down to, you have to do it by feel. The problem is, "feel" is very subjective. I tend to overtighten things, so I will tend to just keep torquing stuff as long as I can, and with this setup, there's really no indication that you might be reaching a point where you're over-tightening things. I think it would be a really good thing, as I mentioned in the other thread, to suggest a target torque setting which people could tighten their clamps to. I believe that with the proper torque setting, and a good degreasing prior to installation, probably no loctite would even be necessary, plus folks won't have to worry about damaging their barrels.

[blancoman]

The price on the strut is relative to the return on investment. Those of you who think 75 bucks is high, have not done any modifications to your guns. Ask Gun doc or anyone who has had custom work done on a mini to reduce the group size what it costs and the time factor involved to get your gun back from the shop. At one time I owned 4 mini's. Because of accuracy, I am now down to two. Before this strut came along I was seriously contemplating selling my remaining mini's and getting another AR. In my experience, the run of the mill AR shoots two to four MOA. To get one to shoot 2.5 will cost some bucks. Nice to know that you can refit your mini for chickenfeed yourself and get hunting accuracy out of one of these. I would also bet that a lot of guys on this board have never shot their mini over a bench. Offhand plinking at cans and yotes only gives a hint of the inaccuracy of your weapon. You might be highly disappointed with the results. My guns sat in the safe for years without being used. Now they have been cycled back to the front row. So, lets be relative, what does a good muzzle break cost. How much does it improve the accuracy of your gun. How bout a really good scope mount. Or a new stock. Compare that to the price of an item that will cut your group in half. Nuff said.

[kkina]

The one thing I worried about, as you hinted above, was "pinching" the barrel. That Mini barrel is so fragile, and because the install directions do not give a target torque setting to tighten down to, you have to do it by feel. The problem is, "feel" is very subjective. I tend to overtighten things, so I will tend to just keep torquing stuff as long as I can, and with this setup, there's really no indication that you might be reaching a point where you're over-tightening things. I think it would be a really good thing, as I mentioned in the other thread, to suggest a target torque setting which people could tighten their clamps to. I believe that with the proper torque setting, and a good degreasing prior to installation, probably no loctite would even be necessary, plus folks won't have to worry about damaging their barrels.

Thanks for the feedback Timlt, as always. I have a request in to my manufacturing engineer guy for a torque spec. However, these clamps are engineered. If you notice, you can only tighten them so far before the middles bottom out on each other. At that point the clamps are at optimal holding strength. They physically cannot be overtightened to the point of damaging the barrel. However, as slipping is a possiblity, I am specing in some high-temp Loctite that should solve the problem (I'm pretty sure Loctite is used by Ruger for the front sight).

[kkina]

I have been eagerly awaiting your strut to hit the market for many months now. I was very interested in the idea of a product that would easily accurize the mini-14 barrel (and the M-14 look is a plus), then I saw the price tag: $75 bucks! I almost choked on my tongue!....and according to website this is the introductory price for the first batch and won't last (giving the impression that its gonna go up!):blink:

I understand that this is a capatalist society (and you can sell your product for whatever you want), and you definately deserve to make a profit for all of your hard work. That being said, I think $30-$45 is a much fairer price for a tube and some stamped metal barrel clamps.

I guess that us "less fortunate" shooters will have to end up making our own, but thanks for the idea!
-R Lachney (a.k.a. YUPPICIDE)

Thank you for your comments, Yuppiecide. I understand cost will always be a sensitive issue, as it should be. First off, a "tube and some stamped metal barrel clamps" is vastly over-simplifying. Inside the sealed strut housing is carefully designed damper mechanism that scrubs off additional vibrational energy. Tests indicate this gives contributes around 8% to the reduction in group size, so is an important component.

As far as tubes and clamps, these are not trivial. The tube is gunbarrel-grade chrome-moly steel, and is imported. Please check steel prices, it's not pretty. We felt it important to closely match Ruger's steel for thermal as well as esthetic reasons. The tube itself is around $10 without machining or finishing. Threading and machining contributes around $40. Hot-bluing a few more bucks.

The clamps are custom-fitted to the strut and the mini barrel. As a special order, we had to order thousands, yet the mfr considers us a small customer, driving up the price. Similar die-formed clamps retail for around $20 EACH, and there are 2.

I have not even mentioned machine set-up costs, special tooling, cost of maintaining a website, 3 years of R&D, thousands of rounds downrange and we all know how expensive ammo has gotten.

I would invite you to replicate a strut on your own. Buy some quality steel, hire a machinist, and I would be surprised if you can honestly come in under $150.

You can also pay 2-3 times more for other accurizing work, such as barrel sleeves or barrel replacements, which add a lot more weight and may not work as well.

The Accu-strut is not a budget accessory. It is a highly-engineered value-added product for those who want the most performance from their Mini.

[kkina]

Just wanted all recent customers to know I'll be sending you a tube of the Loctite 620, no charge of course. It will also be included with all orders from this point on.

[texascarl]

Thanks!

[pbrktrt]

Kevin, you go above & beyond customer service. i'm all set with the Loctite so save yourself a few bucks & send it to someone that needs it. your ethics & product continue to amaze me.

[Lurp2]

I'd like one someday if you ever change the Credit Card only policy,
some of us only use plastic in emergencies. Thank You

[HBR]

I degreased the clamps and barrel real well, good and tite. No problems after about 100 or so rounds, and still pleased to put it mildly, thanks

[kkina]

My mfg engineer speced in the screw torque at 15 in-lbs, for anyone interested.

As far as accepting money orders, my concern is the large number of money order scams currently proliferating, and the time it would take to verify each one.

[kkina]

Loctite kits are going out Tuesday. Happy Memorial Day everyone.

[Carpboy]

I got an envelope withe some Lock Tite and a couple of alcohol swabs yesterday.Too bad I did not use them to mount the scope on my Mini.When I went to sight in my Mini with the Accu Strut my shots started to go all over the place.After scratching my head,I went to lift the rifle up and felt the scope jiggle on the front mount.It had 1/4" of play!The strut was solid as a rock,since I degreased the works before I installed it.I degreased the scope mounting bolts and put a dab of RTV in the notches on top of the receiver where the little tabs on the bottom of the rings fit.The next trip to the range should be more rewarding:)

[stevekaw]

Received mine on Friday, June 1st. Thanks, kkina!

:)

[cbreeze]

Greetings,

My accu-strut came in the mail today and I have a concern about using lock tite on my barrel. Does anyone know if you can get that stuff off after it's been on a while? My concern is that if I use it and someday want to remove my accu-strut, it will leave residue/marks on the barrel. I was hoping to get some feedback on this. I plan to degrease my barrel and clamps and hope that is all it needs. I want to shoot my mini with the strut over the weekend so we will see. Thanks in advance for any imput.

Chuck B.

[kkina]

Greetings,

My accu-strut came in the mail today and I have a concern about using lock tite on my barrel. Does anyone know if you can get that stuff off after it's been on a while? My concern is that if I use it and someday want to remove my accu-strut, it will leave residue/marks on the barrel. I was hoping to get some feedback on this. I plan to degrease my barrel and clamps and hope that is all it needs. I want to shoot my mini with the strut over the weekend so we will see. Thanks in advance for any imput.

Chuck B.

My advice is to hold off on the Loctite, and thouroughly degrease only. Reason: we are coming out with an inexpensive upgrade to the clamping system that should solve the slipping problem. It does not require Loctite, although you can add it for extra security. (FWIW though, I have not had much of a problem cleaning Loctite off the barrel on mine). The upgrade parts have been tested and finalized, and are already in production.

[HighDesertWolf]

I have been eagerly awaiting your strut to hit the market for many months now. I was very interested in the idea of a product that would easily accurize the mini-14 barrel (and the M-14 look is a plus), then I saw the price tag: $75 bucks! I almost choked on my tongue!....and according to website this is the introductory price for the first batch and won't last (giving the impression that its gonna go up!):blink:

I understand that this is a capatalist society (and you can sell your product for whatever you want), and you definately deserve to make a profit for all of your hard work. That being said, I think $30-$45 is a much fairer price for a tube and some stamped metal barrel clamps.

I guess that us "less fortunate" shooters will have to end up making our own, but thanks for the idea!
-R Lachney (a.k.a. YUPPICIDE)


I originally felt the same way but after reading other posts about and how well it works. 75 bucks is a heck of alot less than the 130 i was gonna pay for the ultimak rail, the only reason I even considered the ultimak for its possible accurizing potential to be quite honest I dont care much for a forward mounted optic sight.

they still going for 75 bucks?? I have to wait till next month and see where my finances are at but im seriously wanting one.

[kkina]

Yes, they are still $74.99. The current plan is this: once the clamp upgrade is ready, the Beta distribution will be closed. All new unit will be shipped with the upgrade included. However, there is a chance that the regular pricing will not be as large an increase as I first thought (we are working with some new vendors). Possibly well below $100.

Thank you for appreciating the value of this product, though. With an honest cost-effectiveness ratio, what else can you really do to tame barrel vibrations at anywhere near the cost of an Accu-strut?