User Experiences

[kkina]

Let's use this thread for your personal comments on the Accu-strut. Did you notice a difference with your rifle, how is the quality, would you suggest any changes. Let's have it, the good, the bad, and everything in between. And don't forget range reports! We do listen, and thank you for your comments.

[kkina]

OK, there's over 60 of you out there with Accu-struts now, and I've gotten only 2, count 'em 2, range reports (both positive). So who's hitting the range this weekend?:lol:

[timlt]

I received my test unit yesterday. Installing it took about 10 minutes. I followed the included suggestion to degrease both the clamps, and the surface contact points on the barrel. The install was easy, the fit and finish on the thing looks very nice. It even blends better with my stainless Mini than I thought it would.

One suggestion:
I wonder if it would be a good idea to suggest a certain inch-pounds setting to torque the nuts down to, for those who have torque wrenches. Still, I had no problem with just hand-tightening them by feel. We'll see if the clamps stay put when I test it at the range.

[kkina]

I received my test unit yesterday. Installing it took about 10 minutes. I followed the included suggestion to degrease both the clamps, and the surface contact points on the barrel. The install was easy, the fit and finish on the thing looks very nice. It even blends better with my stainless Mini than I thought it would.

One suggestion:
I wonder if it would be a good idea to suggest a certain inch-pounds setting to torque the nuts down to, for those who have torque wrenches. Still, I had no problem with just hand-tightening them by feel. We'll see if the clamps stay put when I test it at the range.

Thanks timlt. I've gotten several requests for torque settings, so I'll check with my mfg guy. However, I'm strongly suspecting the Loctite material I'm curently evaluating will be the ticket.

[pullnshoot25]

Let's see the reviews!!! I am probably getting a mini-14 and I want to do this mod right off the bat if the reviews are good!

[blancoman]

Mine came in Monday, but I was out of town till last nite. I will get them both on this evening and write over the weekend. So, does anyone have a formal idea as to how we should do this testing? I was thinking 5 shots from a clean gun prior to installing the accustrut. Then 5 with it installed. Center to center measure with and without the obligitory flyer that seems to be in every group.

[timlt]

That's a great thought (the idea of standardizing the testing, so that we have some basis for comparing the results between rifles), and I thought of suggesting it myself too, it'll be hard to get Mini owners to agree on a standard methodology. Rather than try to get folks to use a common approach (which probably won't work), I'd suggest just giving them a common template, like the following one, so that their RESULTS are reported in a standard fashion. This will make it a little easier to compare results among different rifles.

Here's my proposed template for the report. People could paste this template into a forum post, and then just fill in their test results:


ACCUSTRAT TEST RESULTS

Common Details for all your tests
Number of shots you fired in each test group:

Distance at which you fired your test groups:

Type of ammunition used:

How you measured group size (center-to-center, etc.):

What accurizing mods have been done on your rifle:

What type of optic/sights did you use:


Results without Accustrut installed:

Number of test groups you fired:

Average test group size (add group sizes for all the individual groups you recorded, and divide by the number of groups):

Best test group size (provide photo of best group if possible):


Results with Accustrut installed:

Number of test groups you fired:

Average test group size (add group sizes for all the individual groups you recorded, and divide by the number of groups):

Best test group size (provide photo of best group if possible):




Kkina, what do you think?

[pbrktrt]

since my strut is mounted with the high temp Loctite i can only give an after evaluation. my initial tests showed an honest 50% reduction in group size & the flyer was also reduced considerably. then it started moving down the barrel & things spread out. i will test the new Loctite tomorrow & share report.

[kkina]

Kkina, what do you think?

I like it! Any kind of standardized protocol helps. But I'd also invite anyone disinclined to such disciplined testing to also share their results, even if it's only subjective impressions (e.g. the rifle just "felt" better).

[blancoman]

184 first
55gr. fmj military surplus, 5 shots 100 yds. without accustrut, no modifications to the gun burris 3x9.
without 4" center to center.
with accustrut installed. rear clamp touching gasblock 3.5"
with accustrut installed. rear clamp .5 inches from gas block 2.5" no flyers

It makes a big difference where you clamp the rear clamp. I have not tried moving the front clamp. So far this is great. Now to the real success
181 stainless
55gr.fmj military surplus, 5 shot group 100 yds. without accustrut, modifications, ranch products scout mount that replaces upper gas block. 2x leupold pistol scope.
without 4.25"
with accustrut installed. rear clamp .5 " from gas block 2.25" with one flyer. Without the flyer the group WAS 1.15" center to center.
THIS IS MILITARY SURPLUS AMMO!!! I never handloaded for the mini. It was never worth it. Within the next week I will try some handloads. Do not know the twist on the two rifles and never cared. I do now. Mr. Kina, how can I thank you enough. Let the AR guys eat their hearts out. I will be posting my results on thehighroad as well. Thanks again. BTW any way to get rid of the flyers. Seems to be the third bullet in the set that flyes.

[kkina]

Blancoman...those are AWESOME results! Mirrors many of the results I've posted over the years. Sometimes the numbers were so impressive I wondered if anyone was believing me.

I am very intrigued about the rear clamp being off the gasblock. I've played with the front clamp position (saw no effect), but never thought to try the rear clamp. I'll have to look into this.

Flyer: I've noticed this one flyer per group phenomenon, and so has timlt ("bipolar mini"). It is not caused by the thin barrel. I have a theory about what IS causing it, but don't want to say quite yet. Hope to have the time soon to R&D this (it may result in a new product).


Congrats again, and let me know I can use some of your results on the website, and under what name/initials.

[blancoman]

kkina, I don't know if you are familiar with the Ranch Products scout mount, I'm not even sure if it is still in production but it extends the upper gas block .5 inches further out than the lower block.

When I first tried the 184 with the block touching the clamp I was not impressed even thou it reduced the group an inch. When I tried the 181 with the ranch mount I was blown away, I was not sure anyone would believe that fmj would shoot like that out of a mini. That is the only reason I remounted the clamp on the 184.
Maybe someone could try moving the clamp further out, say maybe an inch from the block. Might make a difference.
I know that one group does not make proof but I intend to remedy that soon. Reloading and shooting are my only hobby. I have my own two seat covered range, with targets from 7yds to 200 yds. If I get to the reloader this weekend I will try some custom loads. Feel free to use any info I have sent you, my name is Steve, and I live in the Texas Hill Country.

[ThomasPaine]

I've got both mine , just haven't been to the range. I will be using a mix of 55 grain FMJ and soft point(value brands and mil surp) then will use about 40 rounds of Fed 55grain premium bt hp to test for real accuracy. Also gonna try some of the fed 50 grain stuff. Just give me time. I am pleased with the look and quality of the devices. One gun is a 195 or 96 series SS ranch rifle with the Masen muzzle brake front sight combo and one will be a 580 series 16 inch GB when it gets in.
Range report to follow .

[pbrktrt]

the Loctite worked as planned & i sent Kevin the target pics. the strut is anchored now & m30 is shooting very well imo. follow his instructions, degrease all parts including mounting points on barrel, & definately use a Loctite product made for high temp & high strength retaining. simple things, but it gives the strut a chance to really work as it was intended to. i am more than pleased at the performance with the strut installed. plus it makes my m30 look like it's daddy. thanks, Kevin. a well made product that does what it claims to do & then some.

[kkina]

kkina, I don't know if you are familiar with the Ranch Products scout mount, I'm not even sure if it is still in production but it extends the upper gas block .5 inches further out than the lower block.

When I first tried the 184 with the block touching the clamp I was not impressed even thou it reduced the group an inch. When I tried the 181 with the ranch mount I was blown away, I was not sure anyone would believe that fmj would shoot like that out of a mini. That is the only reason I remounted the clamp on the 184.
Maybe someone could try moving the clamp further out, say maybe an inch from the block. Might make a difference.
I know that one group does not make proof but I intend to remedy that soon. Reloading and shooting are my only hobby. I have my own two seat covered range, with targets from 7yds to 200 yds. If I get to the reloader this weekend I will try some custom loads. Feel free to use any info I have sent you, my name is Steve, and I live in the Texas Hill Country.

Ah, didn't know you had an aftermarket gasblock. I made it out to the range today, tried moving the rear clamp forward. Saw no improvment, in fact I think the groups opened up a bit. I think on a fatory mini it's better to have the clamp all the way back.

[kkina]

Well, at least I made it out to the range today:lol: . The Federal AE was shooting a bit squirrelly today for some reason, so I busted out the Black Hills 50 grain V-max. Nice. Haven't shot the mini for quite a while, have a feeling it was shooting better than me today. But I'll take sub-moa groups any way I can.

[timlt]

Well, got in my first day at the range. I followed the suggestion of degreasing the clamps and barrel before installation, and had no slippage problems. Also took the user suggestion above and installed the rear clamp about 1/2" from the gas block, and that appeared to work fine. I have not tried it yet with the rear clamp butting up against the gas block (as the instructions suggest), so I do not know if performance would differ.

Summary of conditions: Today was a little frustrating at the range as it was gusting wind, and that was affecting ALL my results, making them a little worse than I can normally do with this rifle. I think the combination of the wind, using a cheap scope, and inexpensive ammo, is probably limiting my group size somewhat as well, but that's what I normally shoot with my Mini. Also, I think the test results shooting "without" the strut may have been disadvantaged a bit; because I did all this shooting in one day, and the rifle was already pretty warm (I tested with the Accustrut first), so it's possible these results without it could have been a little better if I ran these tests on separate days. Still, it was my strong impression that Accustrut would make a difference, regardless when I might run the tests.

Comparison of test results for the day:
Best 5-shot group with Accustrut: 1.75"
Best 5-shot group without: 2.5"
Result: Accustruct improved best group size by 0.75"

Average 5-shot group size with Accustrut: 1.9"
Average 5-shot group size without: 2.6"
Result: Accustrut improved avg. group size by 0.7"

Best 3-shot sequence with Accustrut (shown below): 0.625"
Best 3-shot sequence without (circled below): 1.125"
Result: Accustrut improved 3-shot group size by 0.5"


Also, I fired a couple of 10-shot groups which, though not pictured below, clearly showed that Accustrut tightened my groups. I could NEVER shoot 10-shot groups that tightly with my Mini before Accustrut. My objective evaluation, based on these results, is that while Accustrut did not completely eliminate flyers or turn my Mini into a tack driver, it did tighten up the performance quite significantly. Even on a Gundoc-modified rifle, I noticed improved group size. I think Accustrut is worth it!


ACCUSTRAT TEST RESULTS

Common Details for all your tests
Number of shots fired in each test group: 5 per group

Distance at which test groups were fired: 100 yards

Type of ammunition used: Federal Am. Eagle 50gr HP

How you measured group size (center-to-center, etc.): Center-to-center holes

What accurizing mods have been done on the rifle: Gundoc mods--bedding, trigger, crown barrel, Smith compensator

Type of optic/sights uses: A $40 Bushnell Sportsman 3-9x40 scope set on 9x.


Results with Accustrut installed:

Number of test groups fired: 3

Average test group size (add group sizes for all the individual groups recorded, and divide by the number of groups):
The 3 groups I measuered were 1.75", 1.81", and 2.15". Average size for the 3 groups: 1.9"

Best test group size (provide photo of best group if possible): 1.75". See photo with ruler below.

Best 3-shot sequence: 0.625"

Results without Accustrut installed:

Number of test groups fired: 3

Average test group size (add group sizes for all the individual groups you recorded, and divide by the number of groups): The 3 groups I measured were 2.5", 2.57, and 2.72". Average size for the 3 groups: 2.6".

Best test group size (provide photo of best group if possible): 2.5"

Best 3-shot sequence: 1.125"

[blancoman]

I had a chance to try some custom loads on Sunday afternoon. 52gr.Hornady A-Max. Both the 181 and the 184 grouped very close together. 2.4 inch group for the 181 and 2.6 for the 184. That did not include the flyers that opened the group out. Since the rifles both shot around 4 inches without the Accu-strut. I would say the advertised statement of cutting your group in half, is true. I have another question about the flyers. I fired twenty rounds thru the 181 and noticed that 14 of the twenty went into a 2.4 inch group. The other 6 also grouped about 2.4 inches. The only problem was that those 6 grouped 5 inches from the other group at 11 o'clock. Without the accustrut I would have never noticed a different group, since the gun shot like a shotgun. With the strut I was able to recognize the flyer group. Hope this makes sense. So, my question is, has anyone else ever noticed a grouping on the flyers? Or was this maybe a one time deal, and my next time at the bench will be something else? Also any suggestions on bullet weight on a 1 in 10 twist rate?

[kkina]

I have another question about the flyers. I fired twenty rounds thru the 181 and noticed that 14 of the twenty went into a 2.4 inch group. The other 6 also grouped about 2.4 inches. The only problem was that those 6 grouped 5 inches from the other group at 11 o'clock. Without the accustrut I would have never noticed a different group, since the gun shot like a shotgun. With the strut I was able to recognize the flyer group. Hope this makes sense. So, my question is, has anyone else ever noticed a grouping on the flyers?

BINGO! (BIPOLAR ALERT)...Blancoman, you've hit upon something that I've noticed, and a couple other people too (e.g. timlt). As I fine-tuned strut technology and brought my group size way down, I noticed something. My mini wasn't really spraying 1 big group, it was shooting 2 medium-sized groups with 2 different POI's. Even with my gun shooting sub-moa with the right ammo, almost as a rule 1 shot out of 5 is a flyer. It happens so regularly that I doubt if it's me (doesn't happen on my other rifles). And my mini is very securely bedded, so it isn't that either. I now strongly suspect that most mini's have this tendency.

I have a couple theories about why this is happening. I'm not going to say what at this point, but I do hope to have the time this year to research the problem. If I'm right, it could mean another product from my company to help fellow mini shooters. More to come...

[blancoman]

You may have had suspicions that the flyers were the fault of the shooter but I assure you mine were not. I know when I pull a shot and I know that I did not. The secondary POI is too consistant to be anything other than a shift within the rifle. The accustrut allows that to become perfectly clear. I will continue to try different combos of powder and bullet weight until I find what the gun likes. BTW the 184 rifle does not have flyers. Thirty rounds thru it and no flyers over an inch out of POI. Thanks again.

[Der Verge]

If you are getting flyers, the most likely cause is the action of the rifle shifting in the stock. Bed it. I have a 580, and never get flyers, but then, my action fits so tightly in the stock it cannot shift around. Not yet anyway.

[kkina]

You may have had suspicions that the flyers were the fault of the shooter but I assure you mine were not. I know when I pull a shot and I know that I did not. The secondary POI is too consistant to be anything other than a shift within the rifle. The accustrut allows that to become perfectly clear. I will continue to try different combos of powder and bullet weight until I find what the gun likes. BTW the 184 rifle does not have flyers. Thirty rounds thru it and no flyers over an inch out of POI. Thanks again.

I definitely don't think it's you Blancoman and I hope no-one else thinks so either. Because of the way the mini is manufactured I think they may all have this tendancy, though any one particular rifle may or may not exhibit the syndrome. I hope to soon start prototyping a new device that will address this problem.

Oh, by the way, just read your thread on the Accu-strut over at High Road. Thanks!!!

[kkina]

If you are getting flyers, the most likely cause is the action of the rifle shifting in the stock. Bed it. I have a 580, and never get flyers, but then, my action fits so tightly in the stock it cannot shift around. Not yet anyway.

This is the standard answer to mini flyers, one which I have begun to question lately. As I mentioned before, my Mini is very tightly bedded, but still has flyers. In fact, to research this matter I bedded my rifle THREE times, just to be sure. It made no difference. Also, my friend has a 580 that is bedded, and it gets flyers.

[timlt]

This is the standard answer to mini flyers, one which I have begun to question lately. As I mentioned before, my Mini is very tightly bedded, but still has flyers. In fact, to research this matter I bedded my rifle THREE times, just to be sure. It made no difference. Also, my friend has a 580 that is bedded, and it gets flyers.

Mine was bedded by Gundoc (who knows what he's doing), and I have always gotten fliers with it. I don't feel bedding is the complete answer to eliminating fliers either. It has to be something else, probably gas block related.

[pullnshoot25]

This thread is making me all giggly. Time to bust out the 1000fps camera and a physics book, eh kkina?

[HBR]

I just got back in from testing my new toy! The best I can get out of my mini 14 is 4.5" at a 100 yd. I put the Accu-Strut on this morning, and I could not believe it, Blackhill 50gr. V max 1.5 inch, Cor Bon 53gr. DPX 1.5 inch, Federal 60gr. NP. 1.25 . The Accu-Strut took my mini 14 from a minute of paper plate to a shooter! This is the first thing that I bought lately that work's better than I thought it would.:And this is with a 7# trigger!ThanksD

[Ash]

Stop tempting me guys. I was thinking of selling my 196 Mini-14 Ranch. Hmm. :unsure:

[Der Verge]

Stop tempting me guys. I was thinking of selling my 196 Mini-14 Ranch. Hmm. :unsure:

Spend the $75 bucks, you cheap --------! :lol:

[timlt]

Whoops sorry, Verge. Had to edit that a little bit, there.

[Ash]

No offense taken when it's true. heh

[texascarl]

Pretty nice results, considering the shooter. My group size was def. smaller, between 1/3 and 1/2 I'd say. A few caveats, fairly short range and fairly sickly shooter.

[Johnnu]

I just ordered mine today..........maybe several weeks before I get to test it....am in the middle of another hobby project that must be completed. Very anxious to try this baby and will report sooner or later guys. John N.

[blancoman]

If the rain ever quits here in San Antonio I have a coupla loads I am going to try thru my 181 and 184. My shooting bench is covered but I have not graveled the pathway and my target backstops are soaking my targets. Anyway, I am trying Varget powder for the mini. It is my powder of choice for the 308 and 06 but never tried it in 223. Gonna try 25gr. 25.5, and 26. Sierra 55gr. FMJ with canalure. Best thru the ACCU-STRUTS so far have been 1.15 if you don't count flyers. The improvements so far have been phenominal. I noticed yesterday a Mini for sale on gunbroker that had been customized and would shoot 1.5. For somewhere around 900. I have 450 in my 181 and it shoots better than that. Actually paid 360 for the rifle and another 90 for cheap 2x scope and mounts. I figure that the ACCU-STRUT has doubled the value of my rifle. Will let you know what the results are over the weekend. And if anyone has pet loads for the mini please let me know what they might be. Both of my guns are 1/10 twist.

[Johnnu]

Blancoman, I staple builders plastic over my targets shoot right thru it. I fold the plastic over the top too so no water slips down between the plastic and the paper. Works greats until too much water goes in thru too many holes......But I do get a lot of shooting done in some mighty heavy rain. John N

[blancoman]

Blancoman, I staple builders plastic over my targets shoot right thru it. I fold the plastic over the top too so no water slips down between the plastic and the paper. Works greats until too much water goes in thru too many holes......But I do get a lot of shooting done in some mighty heavy rain. John N

thats...a hell of a good idea. Thanks, I have lots of old plastic drop cloths.

[blancoman]

over the weekend I tried the accustruts on my 181 and 184. I used Varget powder and the best loads were the 26gr. loads with 55gr fmj. The 184 shot into 2 inches with no modifications to the gun at all other than the accustrut. The 184 did not like the load and shot 3.5 which is still better than it ever was without the accustrut. My mini is now a hunting rifle thanks to the struts and I will continue to try different loads, just like I do on my long range rifles. Eventually, I will find a load that works on this one in ten twist.

[Joe Garibaldi]

KKina, like many here I followed the Accu-Strut's progress for a long time, and was checking your site daily to be one of the first to order. I was, and you got it to me almost immediately. I also almost immediately installed it (took only a few minutes).

Mine is a stainless, and I think even if you did a stainless version of the Strut, I'd have chosen the black (which looks great, by the way). It gives the Mini the look of the M1A's with the stainless barrels.

To my GREAT consternation, however, I haven't yet been able to make it to the range. I hope to within the next 2 weeks, schedule permitting.

I was so excited to receive the Strut I installed it before I ever even thought about the anti-corrosion coat. Today, I received in the mail a reminder about this from you and even some free Loctite.

My hat is off to you, sir, for such thoughtful and assiduous attention to detail and customer service. Unprecedented in my experience.

I hope to return the favor with a range report as soon as I am able. I first have to:

1. un-install the Strut,
2. zero my new scope,
3. clean the rifle,
4. have a cold-barrel test session without the Strut,
5. re-install the Strut, and then . . .

Here's a question . . . should I re-zero the scope before the final Strut test?

My guess is yes. This will all take me a while, and a few trips to the range, but I'll be sure to report back to you. Thanks again and congratulations on the product launch.

[kkina]

Thank you for the kind words, Joe. I'm not sure I understand your question, but here's an answer. You will almost certainly need to rezero your scope after installing the Accu-strut. It's very dramatic the effect the strut has on how the rifle shoots, and the point-of-impact will probably shift by a good margin. I've seen 12-inch shifts at 100 yards.

[Johnnu]

Joe, I use a 36" square of white paper on my target board for the first sighting in at 100 yds. In fact, I installed my accustrut last night and am off to the range this morning to try it out. My 14 is stainless and i agree that the strut looks great on it. Gotta run...John

[tnhunter]

I got mine yesturday, and installed it today. Followed the instructions to the letter. If the rain holds off, I'll shoot tomorrow. The kit impressed me with its quality. Looks good on the rifle. kkina invented the thing right around the time i joined the board. I made a homemade job and have been waiting ever since, lol. I've shot some groups (300 rounds worth) on different ammo over the past couple weeks from 25-300 yards with nothing on the barrel, so I think I can really wring the thing out. I'm hoping to use the rifle for deer this year at about 110 yards, so i need the performance.

The only drawback to the strut that I see is weight. My rifle with scope+strut is pushing 8 pounds. With a 20 round steel mag and 20 rounds in it, thats almost 9 pounds. I'm curious to see how it handles firing double taps into multiple targets and swinging back and forth...the fun stuff. The extra weight up front should help with the recoil, but the swinging back and forth and hold might be slower/harder/shakier, I dunno.

[Johnnu]

I received my strut with the Locktite. I found that my groups shrunk by half however, the rear clamp would move about a mm forward and just miss touching the gas block. It would do this after about 3-5 shots. Then the groups opened up but not to the extent before the strut. I would tap it rear clamp back against the gas block and tighten the screws each time. Right now I have them to the point where the clamp center touches left and right sections of clamp; but it still seems to move that lousy 1-2 mm. The front clamp doesn't move at all. I've noticed that out of about 25 shots, I get virtually no vertical stringing; I wind-up with about a three inch group that is entirely horizontal. Any ideas on what I could do to lock that rear clamp against the gas block i.e. would a little rubber shim between the clamp and the barrel work......or perhaps one of the newer adhesives like Liquid Nails or Gorilla Glue ??? I like the strut a lot and truly believe that given a few tweeks and a little more patience at the range we will live happily ever after........Any ideas on locking it down would be appreciated ...YES I did put the locktite on the screws/nuts. John N

[kkina]

Johnnu, just to be clear, did you degrease and apply the supplied Loctite to the contact areas on the barrel and clamps, not just to the screws?

[Johnnu]

Kevin, I did NOT put the loctite on the barrel and clamps; just on the screws. Now that we realize I screwed that up, can I use some of the regular loctite I have and try that. If not, where can I get that special Loctite....?

[kkina]

Kevin, I did NOT put the loctite on the barrel and clamps; just on the screws. Now that we realize I screwed that up, can I use some of the regular loctite I have and try that. If not, where can I get that special Loctite....?

It's OK, bro, it's all good. Please PM me your address and I'll send you out some. Do NOT use regular Loctite or any of the other products you mentioned, they will not hold under the temperature. (The Loctite we are using is a special product known as "Cylinder Retention Compound" and is specially engineered to this type of application under high temperature conditions).

Please remember to degrease the clamp and barrel before applying the Loctite, very important. We have not seen instances of the strut itself slipping out of the clamps, but it would probably be a good idea to Loctite there too.

[tnhunter]

Kevin, I did NOT put the loctite on the barrel and clamps; just on the screws. Now that we realize I screwed that up, can I use some of the regular loctite I have and try that. If not, where can I get that special Loctite....?

I did the same dang thing. That rear clamp moved forward on me. How critical is it for the clamp to be touching the gas block? I tried to reinstall like i was supposed to but i notice i left a small gap between the rear clamp and the gas block when i cranked it down. The tube itself is touching i think.

[kkina]

A couple people have reported differences whether the rear clamp was in perfect contact with the gasblock or not. In some cases it was better, other cases worse performance. I have not been able to reproduce this effect. (There's a small gap on my own mini).

[tnhunter]

A couple people have reported differences whether the rear clamp was in perfect contact with the gasblock or not. In some cases it was better, other cases worse performance. I have not been able to reproduce this effect. (There's a small gap on my own mini).

Ok, first, the strut works great for me. It cut my 200 yard groups from 4 to 5 rounds out of 6 being on the paper to 4.2", 4.3", and 5.1" for 6 shots each. Looks pretty consistent. I also fired at 300 yards...the group there is still pretty big, although the improvement is noticible. I didn't measure it though. At 100, i shot 3 5 shot groups for "record", 1.9", 3.1", and back to 1.7" which seemingly tightens things up about a 1/2" for me. The 3.1 incher, i think was me, and not the rifle. I couldn't get comfortable for some reason. I had only ever fired under 2" once or twice with this rifle, and thats in literally 100's of groups. I did it twice today. I probably average 2.5" or 2.6" without the strut with this ammo, federal 50gr fbhp. So, I'm a happy camper.

I fired about 140 shots today, including around 40 shots worth of double/triple taps. The strut did move forward, although there's not much difference in bullet POI that i could tell. I had quite a bit of lock tight on it. Does the strut need the metal to metal contact to work correctly? I'm thinking about somehow taping under the rear clamp on the barrel to give it more meat to grab on to. The whole thing moved as a unit down the barrel about 4mm. I started with the rear clamp touching the gas block and its about 4mm from it now. The front clamp is now about 7mm forward of the tooling mark, so it moved about the same distance as far as i can tell.

Well, thats my report. Like the other guys, I think the unit is well worth the money. I have the stock bushing in the gas block which is probably why its moving on me.

[kkina]

Great, you had some good results. Tape would theoretically help, but you'd have to use something that would withstand the heat.

I am working up some hardware revisions on the clamps to address the slipping issue. Will keep you all posted of course.

[tnhunter]

Great, you had some good results. Tape would theoretically help, but you'd have to use something that would withstand the heat.

I am working up some hardware revisions on the clamps to address the slipping issue. Will keep you all posted of course.

Sounds good. There are several forms of heat resistant tape out there, used for steam piping. Most of it looks sorta like camera film, so its kinda slick. I think theres a cloth type out there, but i haven't found it surfing around. I'll look around some tomorrow. I need to get my order off to gundoc for a reduced gas bushing. Been meaning to, just haven't done it. I bet that would fix it for me.

[kkina]

Well, the strut shouldn't be slipping no matter what gas bushing you're using. But I've got a design session scheduled for the weekend, I have an idea that should work.:)

[pbrktrt]

kevin, i shoot the m-30 which has more recoil than the 14 and nothing has moved since using the high temp/strength Loctite. if the strut is properly anchored by degreasing contact points of the clamps & barrel & using the Loctite you supply there is no way anything will shift or move. and by the way, did i tell you this thing works.

[kkina]

kevin, i shoot the m-30 which has more recoil than the 14 and nothing has moved since using the high temp/strength Loctite. if the strut is properly anchored by degreasing contact points of the clamps & barrel & using the Loctite you supply there is no way anything will shift or move. and by the way, did i tell you this thing works.

:) Thanks! I think I'd like to move forward with a design improvement anyways. Over-engineered is the bare minimum.

[Johnnu]

Kevin, I agree that my slippage problem was certainly the fact that I didn't use the Loctite on the inside of the clamp surface. As soon as I get the extra that you sent me this week, I will do it right and let you know how it works....Definitely my bad on that one.....Will be back with what I'm sure will be a glowing report if my first and hasty session at the range was any indication. John N

[battletweeter]

kkina didn't really have to sell me on the accustrut, i did a homemade contraption about a year ago and got good results.

the main reason i got it was because it looks and feels 100 times better then my homemade contraption.

http://perfectunion.com/vb/showthread.php?t=49785&highlight=battletweeter

just look at the pictures...ugh.... :lol:

i got it a few days after i ordered it and it was easy to install. i will say this, it feels very solid on my mini, it almost feels like it is part of the gun. my home made contraption would twist some. and every now and then i would have to put it twist it back in place.

my mini 14 is a 197 (2004?) series with 1 in 9 twist i believe.

the only modifications my mini has is the accu-strut, muzzle brake, re-torqued and gapped the gas block, a rubber butt for the stock, and added a plastic buffer (acquired from 12g slug and modified to work)

no trigger job.
no bedding.
no cryotreatment

the ammo for this testing is cheap ass Russian made monarch 55 grain full metal jacket .223 ammo. $4.7ish for a box at the local Houston academy stores. i experienced no problems with this ammo during the testing and i believe this ammo got respectable groupings.

the scope is a tasco 3x9 scope with ruger scope mounts sighted in at 50 yards.

for comparison i placed a quarter, a 50 cent piece and a silver dollar

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/battletweeter/accustrut.jpg

i did warm the barrel up with 20 rounds sighting in the scope with out the strut , and then i did a 20 round grouping at 50 yards with out strut, and then i installed the strut, ran a barrel snake through the barrel 3 times and did another 20 round grouping at 50 yards.

the groupings tightened up quite a bit, but with the accustrut...it appears to have 2 points of impact about an inch apart.

the grouping without the strut looks just a bit looser.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/battletweeter/noaccustrutsilverdollar.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/battletweeter/20roundsilverdollaraccustrut.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/battletweeter/cheap-assammo.jpg

....although i will admit that i was sighting in my rifle with out the accustrut that most of the 5 round groupings was a little bit bigger then the silver dollar.

now....for the 100 yard test.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/battletweeter/100yardA.jpg

thats about a 4x2 inch grouping....with crappy ammo.

over all i think the accustrut reduced my groupings by about 25%-33% (too lazy to do the math) or so and thats with crappy ammo. in my opinion these groupings are respectable and with good ammo and some effort on my part i think i could make my mini shoot a lot more better
but i do know this, my mini is shooting a hell of a lot better then what it did when i first got it, and in fact....i believe my mini has the same accuracy as my AR-15

in the future i will do a test on how small i can get my groupings with good ammo....as soon as it becomes affordable :)

but right now i have my mini in SHTF congif with red dot scope.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/battletweeter/mymini2.jpg

[kkina]

Nice Battletweeter. I believe the double-POI phenomenon occurs whether the strut is installed or not, it's just that w/o the strut it's hard to see through the noise. I believe this is caused by something other than the barrel, and am testing some theories as we speak.

Your rifle looks great!

[battletweeter]

could that double POI be heartbeat releated? cause a few times i saw the cross hairs of my scope in sync with my heart, and for some odd reason i couldnt get it timed with my trigger pull. but for me the double POI is about an inch apart and the accustrut grouping had noticable tighter bullet groupings. personally...i feel like i have a 1 and 3 chance of taking out a quarter at 50 yards. i can literally cover those 20 holes with 3 quarters, the other side takes 6, 5 if i could cut one a quarter in half.

but thank you for your product....

i only wanted to have my mini be SHTF accurate. now its above SHTF accurate now. and thats a good thing :)

[kkina]

could that double POI be heartbeat releated?

Well, it certainly could be, but I think aftermarket accessories to address that issue would be beyond my usual scope!

I actually think there's a correctable design flaw in the Mini itself that causes multiple zero points. Working on it...

[Johnnu]

Kevin, I received the extra Loctite you sent and reinstalled the rear clamp per the directions (this time). I fired 50 rnds over the course of an hour and it didn't move at all. I'm using 45 gr bullets over 23.2grs IMR-4198. It took me and the gun awhile to settle in; got groups of 3+". Then I realized that if I put the gun forward on the front bags so that the 5 rnd mag is just about on the bag, I was able to get better groups. Also surprisingly the groups got a bit better as I fired more rounds (this is opposite of what usually happens). NET: my two best groups were 1.5" and 2". I am going back in a few weeks to experiment with putting the little "horseshoe" cap back on the front of my (factory synthetic) stock. It had been shooting better without it before I put the strut on....we'll see if it makes a difference. p.s. my gun is a SS / synthetic. All I did was glass bed it (myself) that helped a great deal. Will advise.........After two range tests, it still appears to work as expected on my rifle i.e. was typically shooting 3" - 4" groups consistently before the Strut. John N

[Johnnu]

I reinstalled the "horseshoe" that slips into the gasblock and that screwed-up everything. I believe that when I glass bedded my stock, I may have done it without the horseshoe touching that gas block i.e. try to bed it with no tension on the bbl. So putting the horseshoe back in didn't work for me at all; the groups were all over the place. Then I removed it and went back a week or so later and we were back to normal i.e. if I was real careful in positioning my gun on the sand bags, and concentrated real hard with my 3-9 compact scope, I was back to 2" groups with the accustrut. I also noticed that a lot of my handloads were sort of junky i.e. used brass with loose primer pockets etc....and they sure shot wildly. All in all the strut cut my groups down to what I can call 2" if I really pay attention to what I'm doing. The strut has not moved at all since I correctly used the Locktite you sent me....I STILL LIKE IT A LOT. John N

[Rockman42]

I got my accu-strut this friday :D. Installed quick and easy, twenty min. or so. The alcohol swabs and hi temp loctite provided are nice customer friendly touches, Kudos! I was impressed with the looks and feel, its a real high quality piece!

I took some quick shots with the strut installed friday night. My old digicam takes terrible pictures indoors, so I'll try to take some good outdoor shots later!

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l319/rockman42/100_2029.jpg
with BSA 3-9x42 Sweet .223 BDC scope

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l319/rockman42/000_0374.jpg
With Eotech 512

Prior engagements kept me from getting out to test in untill today (I was DYING of anticipation Sat and Sun!!)

Went out to my shooting hole late in the afternoon, wind was gusting on and off but not to bad. I was using American Eagle 55 grain FMJ. Took a few shots to rezero my scope at fifty yards or so and could feel the difference right away! My POI didnt change all that much from before I installed the strut...one or two inches high and right if I recall, so it didnt take much to rezero for the strut....When I was confident it was close to zero I set up a target "for the record". The spot I was at isnt very open, so I dont think I was shooting at 100 yards, closer to 80 or 85 yards....thats what my scope focus and my gut told me anyways....I was running out of daylight by now so I decided to shoot one ten shot group to really test it out....WOW!

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l319/rockman42/100_2036.jpg

By far the best 5 + group I have ever shot with my Mini!! I usually shoot 2-3 inch three shot groups with this 580 series....after that the groups would open up big time....I could see through the scope that shots seven and eight were drifting upwards, so I decided to stop there. Overall 2 inch eight shot group, 1.5 if you dont count that little sucker at the top! the cluster in the middle in 1 MOA! The nickle covers that whole group:

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l319/rockman42/100_2037.jpg

I didnt have as much time as I wanted to test and play around a bit more ( I am praying right now this was no fluke and I can pull this off consistently :unsure: ) but from this quick outting I can say this is one of the few accuracy enhancing products that actually lives up to its claims!!

You have given me and my mini a fighting chance to beat my brother and his AR in friendly little shooting comps. we have every few weeks or so....I gotta start winning back some of my money!! :lol:

[kkina]

Damn fine groups! Glad you like the strut. And that stock looks great. Feels good when you can start depending on your Mini, doesn't it? Let's give those AR's a run for their money!

[TallyMini14Guy2007]

The reason many minis have flyers is because the first round that goes into the chamber by hand is not as well seated as the following rounds because the gun itself seats the rounds better when shot, not when manually seated(loaded) by hand. The gun simply seats the rounds harder than by hand.

[trooper509]

Well, I received my Accu-Strut last week and put it on. Installation was pretty straight foreward. I degreased the barrel and all the parts. Put the lock-tite on as directed and tightend every thing up. Had a little trouble trying to hold all the parts together while I tried to start the nuts. Finally got everything together and wiped off the lock-tite that got smeered all over. I did notice the extra weight. Mostly because it's all up front. Not quite as snappy as it was, but not unbearable. This would not be an issue if one just shoots off the bench. I use mine for hunting so the extra weight one lugs around adds up. I mostly sit in a stand all day so I'm not too worried about it. Maybe a lighter weight alluminum model w/ light weight clamps. I don't know, probably not an issue for too many. Ok. How did it shoot? The first 3 shots didn't hit the paper at 100 yds. I had my 21 yr. old daughter along and she thought they were going high.( Bushnell Elite 3200 2x7) So I moved the elevation down a bunch and shot again.
Bingo! I hit the paper. So I put in some cheap Wolf stuff and shot some more until I got it close. I didn't want to burn up all my good reloads I made for deer hunting. Once I got it close I put in my hunting loads.( I was sighting it in at the same time) The sun was starting to go down so I had time for 1 good 5 shot group. 4 of the 5 went into a nice 2'' cluster. The 4th
shot went about 3'' to the right of the rest. "The Flyer". It could have just been me but I don't think so. I felt pretty good on all the shots. Then I let my daughter shoot about 5 rnds. with some Federal 123 grn. SP I had brought along. She dosn't shoot much but was able to put all 5 in the same
5.5 " bullseye. Her grouping was about 3.5" and a little lower than mine.
So is the Accu-Strut worth it? Yes I say. I've never shot that tight of group ever before w/ that gun. And it dosn't seem as sensitive to different ammo as before. This thing works! Thanks for a great product.
PS. It did not slip at all.

[mainlander]

fitted an accustrut to my 189 series mini 30 , prior to this it grouped similar to buckshot regardless of load and I have tried a lot of combinations of handloads. I am happy to report that it shot a 1 inch 5 shot group at 50 metres , this is with the strut hard against the gas block . I was using 130 grain hornady projectiles . yes the accustrut does work. looks cool too.