"Scout" Optics

[bobgengeskahn]

I have recently acquired an ultimak rail and have been debating what optic to put on it. In the near future I am planning to go with the ASI “Extreme Duty XTP Front Sight/Muzzle brake with bayonet lug” so I will have a shorter barrel and thus less muzzle velocity, so most of my shooting will probably be around 50-75 yards. Because of this I am debating on a 1x red dot style optic or searching for some kind of 3x-9x style scout scope if I want to go out to 100. What have your experiences been with a scout set up or with the shorter barrel? Is it worth the accuracy to lose the velocity? Or are the better ways to accurize without buying a whole new barrel? I have been reading the recent threads on barrel shortening and I have pretty much decided that if I cut the barrel it will either be to 13” (where that wonderful taper is :wacko: ) and mount a muzzel break to keep it legal in this state, or keep it around 16”. Thanks!:D

[Mabes]

For the past several years, I’ve had a 16.25” barrel with a Choate FS/FH. Like you, my set up is specifically intended for targets at 100 yds or less. Because the AR M4 with 16” bbl is widely considered effective at that range, I’m convinced that my loss of muzzle velocity (100-200fps) is acceptable, too. I also installed an Ultimak scout rail. The combined effect of the shorter barrel and scout rail seems to me to have improved accuracy somewhat. I use a Meprolight 21i “red dot” with a 4.2MOA dot. It has a wide field of view designed for shooting with both eyes open, it’s rugged (Israeli GI issue), requires no batteries, is excellent in low light conditions, and the 1x still gives me 3.5” average groups for 10rds from sandbags with factory ammo. There are, of course other outstanding 1x red dot sights (and cheaper). I think you’ll be pleased with the direction you’re heading in.

[timlt]

I too have an Ultimak rail and a shorter barrel, Gundoc shortened it for me, and added a Smith compensator. I have a thread here somewhere, in which I recently tested my 580-series Mini both with and without the threaded compensator, to see how much difference it makes. The difference it makes is significant: when I take it off, I get larger groups and way more fliers. And I know that shortening the barrel improved accuracy, so I don't mind giving up 100 f.p.s in velocity or so to get the extra accuracy. The Mini was never a long-range gun anyway, so 100 f.p.s. isn't going to make or break it.

As for optics on your Ultimak rail, one big advantage of putting your optic on the Ultimak, instead of mounting it in the traditional position over the receiver, is that the Mini is notoriously hard on scopes when it ejects brass. Over time, that nice Leupold rifle scope (or whatever you mount in the Ruger slots) is going to show some serious wear and tear. Having your optic forward-mounted eliminates that problem, though of course the recoil forces will still affect any optic, no matter where you mount it.

There are three categories of optic you can put on your Ultimak rail:

Scout scopes. These are designed for this purpose, usually low-powered (which is ok for a short-range Mini), have long eye relief. Good examples are the Leupold Scout scope, and the Burris Scout--both are very affordable.
Pistol scopes. Also known as "intermediate eye relief" (IER) scopes, these will typically be in the range of 2x to 7x power--though I've seen a few go up to 12x or even higher--and they have eye relief of 10" to 15". The tricky thing with these scopes is, the greater the magnification power you get, the narrower your field of view will be, because of the distance the scope is from your eye. Many shooters find the experience of looking through an IER scope at high magnification to be very dissatisfying. So, this CAN be a good solution, but before you buy, go to a gun store and look through a scope like this that they have mounted on something, so you know whether you'll like this approach or not. Or, buy the scope from a web-based dealer who has a very generous return policy in case you don't like the scope.
Red dots. As you said, this can be a very effective way to go. For awhile, I had a red dot mounted that was capable of doing 5-shot groups of around 1.5" at 100 yards (My Mini didn't always cooperate though, because I have the same issue most others have, the frequent "5th shot flyer"). Get a good precision red dot, and you can be as nearly accurate with it as a magnified scope. There's a very wide range of philosophies on red dots: some folks get the inexpensive ones (under $100), and are perfectly pleased with them. Other folks want more the high-end stuff, and with these, the advantages you get are typically things like: longer battery life, a "crisp" dot that doesn't blur or distort around the edges, greater accuracy, the option to get a smaller MOA dot (thus more potential accuracy), more rugged, and last longer. If you want to get the nicer ones, the best names are: Eotech (prob. the best and most sought-after), Aimpoint, and Trijicon (Reflex and Tripower). Some mid-price-range brands are: Bushnell (Holosight), Burris Speed dot, and Sightron.Enjoy!

[raccol]

I have an EOTech 512 with 1 MOA dot and love it.
http://eotech-inc.com/index2.php

If you consider one of this type, EOTech makes the Bushnell Holosight (http://www.bushnell.com/general/riflescopes_holosight_51-0021.cfm) and it's basically the same as the EOTech base 511 model (http://eotech-inc.com/lawe_hwsmodels.php).

My understanding is they have the same optics. Differences are the Bushnell is not submersible (only waterproof), does not have the better battery life version, and does not have the reinforced frame. But it's about $100 cheaper because of these differences.

[Warlock]

I interchangeably use an EOTech 510 mounted on a GG&G Accucam and a Leupold VX-III 2.5-8 X 32 mm pistol/rifle scope using their quick detach rings.

[bobgengeskahn]

Thanks! all of this information has been very helpful. I think that I am leaning toward a red dot style because of price and the fact that I would like to eventually use my mini in 3 gun shoots. does anyone have experience using their mini in this way? what have you found more useful?

[ryan_kalani]

Check out pics of my Mini Scout set-up in my signature :)