View Full Version : Winning the (Whoops!) Hearts and Minds
Dutch Nick
10-25-2006, 10:40
BAGHDAD, Oct 24 (Reuters) - U.S. troops killed four Iraqi firefighters in a case of mistaken identity after a report that a firetruck had been hijacked, the military said on Tuesday.
A U.S. statement said troops pulled over a fire truck not matching the description of one reported hijacked on Monday in Falluja, a tense town in the western Anbar province.
"The people inside the truck exited quickly and Coalition Forces thought they were armed. Coalition Forces engaged what they thought were armed insurgents with small arms fire," it said, adding that all four were killed.
"Upon further investigation the suspected insurgents were in fact firefighters responding to a call. The fire truck number did not match the one of the hijacked truck."
You report that as if it is good news. You want America to lose in Iraq. Why, I have no idea.
Boogyman
10-25-2006, 13:00
You report that as if it is good news. You want America to lose in Iraq. Why, I have no idea.
Talk about putting words in people's mouths!
Instead of being a man and admitting how badly things are going in Iraq, you accuse others of being traitors and cowards.
Shame on you and others like you. :angry:
Sadly, incidents of this nature are going to h apen in a War Zone. They shouldn't, but they are going to. They have happened in every War this Nation has ever fought. While regrettable, they are n ot a condemnation of the entirety of the entire War effort.
Sadly, incidents of this nature are going to h apen in a War Zone. They shouldn't, but they are going to. They have happened in every War this Nation has ever fought. While regrettable, they are n ot a condemnation of the entirety of the entire War effort.
exactly. no matter what you think about this military excursion, citing the occurrence of such an accident, the likes of which have been going on as long as warfare has existed, is misleading. civilian casualties and friendly fire incidents would be common-place even if this was the most justified conflict we had ever engaged in.
Teleplayer
10-26-2006, 13:12
But, doesn't ignoring it equate to viewing the war through rose colored glasses? Like you only want to hear the good stuff. Its a war... bad stuff happens, personally, I choose not to ignore any of it... the good and the bad.
Well our enemy is clever to use our sense of shame against us... they hide behind civilians so we will cause undue casualties.... they have no shame about getting the innocent killed..... so they will play us that way. its no wonder a mistake is made against what looks like non-iraqi military enemy running in a comotion with guns! Our military has to make these split second decisions all day! They have not won one single battle against us yet.... so their victory propaganda is publishing our mistakes ..... and there is enough americans on their side to publish it here and play on our sense of guilt. they know this...
But, doesn't ignoring it equate to viewing the war through rose colored glasses? Like you only want to hear the good stuff. Its a war... bad stuff happens, personally, I choose not to ignore any of it... the good and the bad.
i never advocated ignoring anything, i simply said it's senseless to cite inevitable happenings, such as the incidence of civilian casualties, in an effort to illustrate what's wrong with this conflict. these or any civilian casualties have nothing to do with what's wrong with this conflict.
War should never be viewed through rose colored glasses. It's a horrible thing. IT's just that such things happen no matter how much care is taken. Accordingly they are to be accepted as a part of War. If the reason for a given War is just, accidents should not be a reason to condem the action taken. No intent to reference the current War here.
Teleplayer
10-26-2006, 20:18
i never advocated ignoring anything
My apologies... I wasn't meaning for that to come across as personal (gotta watch my use of "you"... I meant it in broader sense) :)
Well our enemy is clever to use our sense of shame against us
This was from a Reuters report, it didn't come from Al Jazeera or any state run publication in the middle east. But, I do know what you mean, and it is a tactic that will always be used in a war... we do it, too. It's called winning the hearts and minds. We just don't like it when the other guy gets one in on us. Its like being in a good fight, and getting tagged on the nose because you dropped your guard for like a split second.
This part down here is my expounding on my own thoughts, not really replying to anyone in particular:
We have to remember, its a war, and rules have gone out the window when it comes to propaganda.
Also, to a large degree, we should see these kind of reports as well as the good ... we need the balance, but we also need to know what is truely going on over there. It's really easy to sit over here and judge them and each other about our thoughts on the war. However, if we are given only the filtered news, it may help us to go to bed at night thinking that we are only committing acts of kindness for the innocent, and destroying the bad guys, but the reality is that we are funding this war... like it or not, and because of that, we are all responsible for what happens during it. I, for one, want to know everything that is going on... and I want it unfiltered, and I don't want smoke blown up my keister. I know its a war, and the bad guys are not the only ones looking to do damage, and that's the way it is supposed to be. But, because we are/were collectively "man enough" to send these folks in there... we should collectively be "man enough" to see what they see.
Steve
Dutch Nick
10-26-2006, 21:30
Well our enemy is clever to use our sense of shame against us... they hide behind civilians so we will cause undue casualties.... they have no shame about getting the innocent killed..... so they will play us that way. its no wonder a mistake is made against what looks like non-iraqi military enemy running in a comotion with guns! Our military has to make these split second decisions all day! They have not won one single battle against us yet.... so their victory propaganda is publishing our mistakes ..... and there is enough americans on their side to publish it here and play on our sense of guilt. they know this...
Who is the "our enemy" that you refer to? The Iraqi resistance? Holy smoke man... most of them are just people who are willing to die to force the occupiers out of their country... kinda like our Patriot Forefathers did.
I can't think of a single thing that an Iraqi did to harm us before we invaded... can you?
It's called terrorism!
you think normal good people fight their wars hiding behind innocent civilians? you think good folks use women and children as shields? our enemy expects the innocent to die..... that's what terrorism is all about. you show me where american soldiers are hiding out to make innocent civilians the targets. they took the war against terrorism away from our soil and to the hotspots of radical religious terrorism. American soldiers took a terrorist out of power, the citizens of iraq showed up in droves to vote despite making themselves targets for terrorists. Amazing that some people can't tell the difference between right and wrong!
Teleplayer
10-27-2006, 07:34
It's called winning the hearts and minds.
It's called terrorism!
you think normal good people fight their wars hiding behind innocent civilians? you think good folks use women and children as shields?
I was referring only to the use of the media, not fighting tactics. Every war ever fought has had propaganda used to persuade people to support or reject it. And again, I would rather see "both sides" of the news so that I get a clearer picture of what is going on... that way the next time we are about to go to war, we as a people may think twice, and realize that it is truely a last resort measure, even if that means compromising a bit to avoid it.
Steve
It's called terrorism!
you think normal good people fight their wars hiding behind innocent civilians? you think good folks use women and children as shields? our enemy expects the innocent to die..... that's what terrorism is all about. you show me where american soldiers are hiding out to make innocent civilians the targets. they took the war against terrorism away from our soil and to the hotspots of radical religious terrorism. American soldiers took a terrorist out of power, the citizens of iraq showed up in droves to vote despite making themselves targets for terrorists. Amazing that some people can't tell the difference between right and wrong!
your enthisiasm is commendable. i think we should take the fight to muslim terrorists all over the globe.....just hunt them into extinction. the problem is this: there was no evidence of significant terrorist activity in iraq, and no evidence to suggest that saddam funded it in any concerted way. quite the opposite actually. saddam's overwhelming motivation was in self-preservation. any encouraging of terrorist activity, any harrasing of israel, any efforts to inflame hatred in the muslim world toward the west were done in an effort to draw attention away from his very secular, very violent way of keeping his population under control. he was a bastard, and an effective strongman in a region that both historically and geographically is a nexus for strife in the muslim world. we removed that proverbial 'finger in the dike', and since we are not willing to keep the population on the same sort of very heavy-handed lockdown, we have a mess.
you cannot expect a population that has known nothing but strongmen rulers and tribal leaders for thousands of years to promptly embrace or even understand the idea of democracy. it was a bad idea. it was the wrong place to confront islamic terrorism. democracy as we know it will not catch there. it will take generations to get the people to understand. we have no business being there that long.
i think the best way to save face in this situation is to set a date to leave, vacate by that date, and immediately triple our efforts in afghanistan.
Dutch Nick
10-27-2006, 08:09
You act outraged that they don't "fight fair." What do you expect them to do... stand out in the open with an AK while we call in half-million dollar cruise missiles? What is an IED if not simply a poor man's cruise missile? If you can't tolerate a bloody nose, then stay out of the ring.
Let's turn the tables.... it's 3 years ago and America has an absolute despot in the White House... the Constitution has been suspended and America is in a mess. So.... Canada institutes "Operation Enduring Freedom" and invades... toppling the government, disbanding the military and occupies the country. A large group of people (call 'em terrorists, freedom fighters... whatever you want) begin to kill Canadians and US citizens. You're at home, having dinner with your family... across the street, a group of these militants lobs a couple mortar rounds at the Canadians, then proceeds to hide behind your family. The Canadians drop a 500 pound bomb down your chimney, wiping out the militants AND your family. Who are your relatives gonna blame.. the militants or the Canadian occupiers?
The following is from an interview on 9/24/2001, with Tome Carew, a veteran of Britain's legendary commando Strategic Air Services, who trained the mujahideen in their fight against the Soviets in Afghanistan.
"I have seen barbarism while serving in Northern Ireland, but nowhere have I witnessed such brutality as I saw in Afghanistan. Captured Russian troops, their stomachs cut open, were left to die in the blazing sun that baked their innards.** For the Afghanis, such sights are commonplace. Every man is a fighter. There is no distinction between a mujahideen and a civilian. War is a way of life.
The Afghanis have always been devastatingly effective guerrilla fighters. It is why they will make a lethal foe for Western forces. But in 1980, when the country was invaded by Russia, they were woefully ill-equipped to deal with the superior strategies of a superpower. That was where I came in.
My mission was to teach the mujahideen modern tactics, to instruct them in how to use sophisticated weapons and to gather as much Soviet hardware as I could.
I think I did a good job (though now I hope that the lessons those tribesmen learnt have not been passed down): When I left, after a year, the Afghanis were disciplined soldiers.
I knew that they possessed bravery, determination and resilience, but they also had something of greater military value: They know every inch of the Hindu Kush and how to make best use of its caves and gullies, treacherous drops and winding slopes. And they have the stamina to survive, as guerrilla units, within them."
** Evidently, gutting Russian soldiers wasn't an "act of terrorism" since we were then supporting the mujahideen. However, planting an IED IS an act of terrorism, if we're involved in the scrap. Can you spell "hypocrisy"?
One man's terrorist is another man's Freedom Fighter.
Boogyman
10-27-2006, 09:32
Who is the "our enemy" that you refer to? The Iraqi resistance? Holy smoke man... most of them are just people who are willing to die to force the occupiers out of their country... kinda like our Patriot Forefathers did.
Yep.
I can't think of a single thing that an Iraqi did to harm us before we invaded... can you?
Nope.
I guess some would like to forget all the people saddam killed to rise to power, ... and the people including his family that he killed to keep his power... and the victory dance the people of Iraq did when we removed him from power... and the terrorists who come out of the woodwork to keep the allies from setting up freedom in the middle east.
Think of what the world would be like if the first two world wars were not stopped. Why should Iraqi citizens have to live under the oppression of Saddam, who killed his own people and family to preserve his power? What will the world be like if terrorists are allowed to continue decapitating non-muslims including women and children?
America has a history of protecting other nations at great costs when there is no hope for them to win on their own against evil doers. Sometimes, you see the innocent being brutally raped, and while you have the opportunity to stop the abuse, by turning a blind eye, you aren't much better than the rapist. If that's the America you believe in, shame on you. It's amazing that from all the evil that saddam and terrorists do against the innocent in the middle east and then bring to the other peaceful nations of the world.... the one country who finally stands up to defend the innocent is called evil. If we are supposed to love our neighbors, how do we do that by turning a blind eye to their continued abuse, oppression, and death? If it weren't for America getting involved in wars that didn't threaten them directly, things would be a lot different in the world today.
And despite all the costs...all lives that americans have sacrificed to protect the innocent against evil oppressors.... this is the thanks that America gets.
Amazing how up is down, right is wrong, evil is good.... in a world who stopped believing in absolute truth, absolute morals... freedom, goodnes, and justice, and an absolute God.
Boogyman
10-28-2006, 08:34
I guess some would like to forget all the people saddam killed to rise to power,
Allright, I've had enough of your twisted re-write of history.
We are the ones that put Saddam Hussien in power in Iraq to replace the Kohlmeni in the 80's. I'll show you pictures of Rumsfeld shaking his hand if you like.
they took the war against terrorism away from our soil and to the hotspots of radical religious terrorism.
Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11, even your hero Bush has admitted that.American soldiers took a terrorist out of power,
Saddam was a Dictator, not a terrorist. He hated Bin Laden and had NOTHING to do with Al Qaeda.
and the victory dance the people of Iraq did when we removed him from power.
Victory dance? Only a minority of "the people of Iraq" celebrated the downfall of Saddam, and that didn't last very long, did it?
What fool still believes we were "welcomed as liberators" in Iraq? :wacko: and the terrorists who come out of the woodwork to keep the allies from setting up freedom in the middle east.
Yeah, the terrorists who now use Iraq as a breeding/training ground since we destabilized it. They used to be cornered in Afghanistan, remember?
Think of what the world would be like if the first two world wars were not stopped.
Your comparing WWI and WWII to Iraq? Give me a break!
Why should Iraqi citizens have to live under the oppression of Saddam,What makes you think its any of our business? Did they ask us to come and "liberate" them? NO!
America has a history of protecting other nations at great costs when there is no hope for them to win on their own against evil doers.
Sure, when they ask us for protection. You seem to have forgotten that we invaded Iraq on Bush's word that they posed an imminent nuclear and biological threat, which we now know was false.
Sometimes, you see the innocent being brutally raped, and while you have the opportunity to stop the abuse, by turning a blind eye, you aren't much better than the rapist. If that's the America you believe in, shame on you.
WTF? Give me a freaking break! Now you are comparing the invasion of Iraq to rescuing a raped woman? Gawd! You sure are addicted to that kool-aid, huh? :rolleyes:
the one country who finally stands up to defend the innocent is called evil.Is that how you describe invading and occupying a country that did absolutely nothing to harm us? "Superman to the rescue"? :blink:
If we are supposed to love our neighbors, how do we do that by turning a blind eye to their continued abuse, oppression, and death?
Apparently we now do that by blowing the crap out of them. Love thy neighbor? Why you pious hypocrite! You condone invasion, destruction and occupation of a country based on lies, for the purpose of getting rich from oil, that has turned into utter chaos due to poor planning and stupidity, and expect us to believe we did it all out of the goodness of our hearts? Gawd!
Amazing how up is down, right is wrong, evil is good.... in a world who stopped believing in absolute truth, absolute morals... freedom, goodnes, and justice, and an absolute God.
Yeah, it's amazing allright. What's even more amazing is people who spout this kind of rhetoric and have no idea what it means. Anybody who can look at all the death, pain, suffering, maiming, and absolute chaos in Iraq and call it some kind of rosy success story based on "goodness and justice" is living in a fantasy world. :wacko:
Next you'll be accusing me of being "unpatriotic" and "not supporting the troops" I bet. Do us all a favor and save the predictable insults and accusations. Too many Americans have already heard too much of that baloney from the Bushies and are quite sick and tired of it.
I know I'm wasting my time, Tunug, you are too far gone to see the truth here. But I just couldn't stand to see any more of your BS without at least a common sense response. <_<
Rant all you want..... just because the Bushes had a hand in getting saddam into power does not mean that saddam didnt abuse his power, and didnt deserve to be removed..... I agree that there may be US politician's motives in this war that are questionable.... but the ones carrying out the orders are good americans who are trying to make right things that are wrong for the world in the middle east..... the fact that Iraqi citizens turned out in droves to vote for their new democracy and join the new military to fight for their freedom alongside us troops despite becoming targets for terrorism... is should make one realize that what we are doing over there is still right for the GOOD citizens of Iraq. I'm not twisting facts... I'm just as sick of the politics as you are, but the things that saddam has done to his people and the things that terrorists have done to innocent people compared to what our troops are doing while trying to build a govt. based on democracy in Iraq is night and day.... good and evil. simple as that. Amazing you don't see the difference.
Sure, I agree that our politics STINK! but just because I am now mad at republicans as well as democrats, does not mean I can't see the difference between the allies and the enemies of freedom and am going to cry about how unjust this war is now... just because it was republicans who designed it. I'd like none other than both our republican and democrat parties to keel over and die out to better parties like the constitution pary and the libertarian party.... but I can still see that we need to win the war over there by restoring Iraq to become a free place instead of letting the enemies of freedom take control and rule by tyranny.
Helping saddam attain power was the wrong thing to do, taking him out of power was the right thing to do. Trying to rebuild Iraq to be free is the right thing to do. leaving before the job is finished is the wrong thing to do. Letting radicals who oppose the newfound freedom beat us out of there so that Iraq will slip into a worse state of affairs is the wrong thing to do. Why can't you tell right from wrong? that's for you to think about, because I'm pretty sure I know the answer. I am not twisting history.
Btw.. Bush ain't my hero... far from it!!!! and yes, you are wasting your time! calm down old man!!
Yuppicide
10-28-2006, 12:02
BAGHDAD, Oct 24 (Reuters) - U.S. troops killed four Iraqi firefighters in a case of mistaken identity after a report that a firetruck had been hijacked, the military said on Tuesday.
A U.S. statement said troops pulled over a fire truck not matching the description of one reported hijacked on Monday in Falluja, a tense town in the western Anbar province.
"The people inside the truck exited quickly and Coalition Forces thought they were armed. Coalition Forces engaged what they thought were armed insurgents with small arms fire," it said, adding that all four were killed.
"Upon further investigation the suspected insurgents were in fact firefighters responding to a call. The fire truck number did not match the one of the hijacked truck."
These are the kind of "mistakes" that create MORE TERRORISTS! If my father was brave enough to BE a firefighter in that ****hole-and was MURDERED by Americans WHILE doing his job, I would pick up my AK and seek revenge!!!
For all of you who like the movie RED DAWN: Replace: America with Iraq, and Replace the invading armies of Russia and Cuba with the U.S.A and great britain. Still "down" for the WOLVERINES?:blink:
Boogyman
10-28-2006, 13:49
Helping saddam attain power was the wrong thing to doAgreed.
taking him out of power was the right thing to doWrong. As bad as he was, he:
1. Had nothing to do with 9/11.
2. Kept Iraq stabilized.
3. Kept Al Queda from expanding into his country.
AND, if we hadn't put all our resources into Iraq instead of Afghanistan, we would have gotten Bin Laden and prevented Al Qaeda from growing into the huge terrorist organization it is now.
Trying to rebuild Iraq to be free is the right thing to doWrong. It is not our job or our right to go around invading other countries and trying to rebuild them into what we decide they should be, especially without being asked!
leaving before the job is finished is the wrong thing to doAgreed. But the "job" is finished. There's nothing further that we can accomplish in Iraq, the country is in a civil war. We need to get our troops the hell out of there NOW. It's up to the Iraqi's from here.
Letting radicals who oppose the newfound freedom beat us out of there so that Iraq will slip into a worse state of affairs is the wrong thing to doWrong. For one thing, it's hard to imagine Iraq being in a "worse state of affairs" than it is now. For another, our continued occupation is feeding terrorism and turning the world against us. This foolish attitude of stubbornly staying the course in order to avoid being "beat out of there" does nothing but keep our brave and loyal troops in harms way unnecessarily.
When we pulled out of Vietnam, they finished their war far more quickly than if we would have stayed, and with no more losses of American lives. Now it is a popular vacation spot.
Why can't you tell right from wrong?What an arrogant and asinine statement. You think you are the Great High Knower of Right and Wrong?
It's one thing if you disagree with my opinions regarding this topic. It is quite another to accuse me of not being able to "tell right from wrong". That's an outright attack on my character, and a pretty damn stupid thing to say.
that's for you to think aboutOh, I have, and apparently a lot more than you have. :rolleyes:
I'm pretty sure I know the answer.
That is an unfortunate delusion that results from not knowing any better. :lol:
old guys with with no brains, but full of hot air... when a young fella like me has better sense than an old man... well it is pitiful!
like i said.... wasting your time. :)
Teleplayer
10-29-2006, 09:10
old guys with with no brains, but full of hot air... when a young fella like me has better sense than an old man... well it is pitiful!
like i said.... wasting your time. :)
I think you're taking this all a bit too personal.
Twice now you have referred to Boogy as "an old man". And from the context it is obvious that you are trying to get him riled up. Just remember, in many cultures, elders are respected for the things they have seen, and things they have learned.
Completely unnecessary, and personally I think you owe him a public apology for the "old man" comment... not the things about your opinion. I think, as does he, I'm sure, that you are welcome to those... but you are not welcome to treat him that way just because you disagree with him.
Steve
Boogyman
10-29-2006, 09:54
I think you're taking this all a bit too personal.
Twice now you have referred to Boogy as "an old man". And from the context it is obvious that you are trying to get him riled up. Just remember, in many cultures, elders are respected for the things they have seen, and things they have learned.
Completely unnecessary, and personally I think you owe him a public apology for the "old man" comment... not the things about your opinion. I think, as does he, I'm sure, that you are welcome to those... but you are not welcome to treat him that way just because you disagree with him.
Steve
Thank you, Steve. ;)
Don't worry, in order to be insulted, Tunug's BS would first have to matter to me... and it doesn't! :lol:
old guys with with no brains, but full of hot air... when a young fella like me has better sense than an old man... well it is pitiful!
like i said.... wasting your time.
It's typical for guys like you to resort to stupid insults when up against superior wisdom and common sense. :lol:
Tele... with 8 posts.... ummmm, nope! no need for apologies. just sit back and READ BACK, before you jump into someone else's firefight! the ol' air bag starting slingin' the insults before i lost respect and gave him back just a lil taste.
here, i'll quote the boogerman:
"You sure are addicted to that kool-aid, huh?..... Why you pious hypocrite!.... Tunug, you are too far gone to see the truth here. But I just couldn't stand to see any more of your BS without at least a common sense response....."
common sense? lots of slingin'...
so i ask, "Why can't you tell right from wrong?" And after all his slingin' he acuses me of character attacks....
riiiiiiiiiight! ;)
boogerman:
"What an arrogant and asinine statement. You think you are the Great High Knower of Right and Wrong? ....not being able to "tell right from wrong". That's an outright attack on my character, and a pretty damn stupid thing to say."
by this point hes pointing the finger about character attacks!! LoL gimme a break.... what a cry baby!
but, of course I must give him due credit.... he said he is not insulted, and while I'm an opinionated and stubborn SOB too... I'm not insulted... all in a day's work. cheers!
just to set the record straight once more.... I can't stand either party (Rep. or Dem)... but we still have a bit more work to do over there cleanin up the mess before we pull out.... and our troops need our support more than ever. While we are sittin safe back here acting like a bunch of couch quarterbacks.... they are the ones putting their lives on the line so we don't have to... regardless of their own distain for politics. So... we owe them a lot more respect than this stupid thread has given them!!! the only deserved apology is to our troops for pulling out our support for them.
Sorry guys for this stupid anti-support thread. Some of us are still with ya!
Teleplayer
10-30-2006, 15:58
Tele... with 8 posts.... ummmm, nope!
So, you are just going to dismiss me because of my post count? Wow, you really are arrogant. My opinion matters not because I have ONLY 8 posts?
I didn't realize that this was your BBS... oh, wait.. it isn't. In fact, it isn't even your thread... you just seem to be trying to get it closed by making personal attacks or by drawing personal attacks... most possibly because you have run out of arguments to the thread.
BTW, don't accuse me of anti-support... I served, and would do it again. And to this day, I have no qualms sending packages overseas, buying products from organizations that help the soldiers and their families. I, unlike many who "support the war" back it up with action and not just words.
Steve
Boogyman
10-30-2006, 16:44
we owe them a lot more respect than this stupid thread has given them!!! the only deserved apology is to our troops for pulling out our support for them.
Sorry guys for this stupid anti-support thread. Some of us are still with ya!
Don't be wrapping yourself in the flag and shoveling that crap at me, sonny. I served my country and I'm still carrying the steel in my ass to prove it. You ever serve? Somehow I doubt it, in the service they teach you respect for your elders. You sure as hell ain't got a clue about that.
I put up a comprehensive reply to your rhetoric (post #21) addressing each point with common sense logic.
Your reply:
old guys with with no brains, but full of hot air... when a young fella like me has better sense than an old man... well it is pitiful!
like i said.... wasting your time.
Wow. What an intelligent response. You got nothin'.
You say you support the troops? How? By keeping them in harms way? Wanting them to stay there as targets for both sides of a civil war? You got a funny way of "supporting" the troops, kid.
Spare me the "more patriotic than thou" garbage and learn some manners, son.
Tele.... you aught to pay a little more attention! I'm just not gonna waste much more time with closed minded people... pearls to swine. Arguing with non-believers is like wrestlin with a pig. Ya both get dirty, but the pig loves it.
boogy... well thank you very much for serving our country... when did you stop believing and give up on america?
like i said... i got plenty of respect for elders. But if ya wanna be a crothchety old buffoon... wasting your time ranting... criticizing soldiers... I got no respect for you. I've seen plenty of your previous posts.... you need a more constructive hobby, oldtimer! don't worry yourself, i won't be a botherin ya anymore..... this bbs has been overrun with clueless libby blowhards such as yourself and the granpoobah for some time now. The way ya'll post your anti-american bu!lsh!! I don't think you have a clue as to the intentions of the original framers of our constitution.... and ya jump on anyone's case for being contrary, I'd say you think you own the board.... Sad thing is, the guy who does own the board is just as far gone as you, and lotsa God-fearin' gun-totin, good ole fashioned freedom lovin' americans have left because of it. It just aint what it used to be. Ya'll have turned this place into a frikin joke. enjoy your waste of time!
Boogyman
10-30-2006, 19:28
boogy... well thank you very much for serving our country... when did you stop believing and give up on america?
Never. I still believe there's hope for our country, despite the name-calling, disrespectful false patriots such as yourself who offer nothing but divisive hatred towards any fellow Americans who disagree with your narrow-minded BS.
like i said... i got plenty of respect for elders. But if ya wanna be a crothchety old buffoon
Being old is something to be proud of, in most people's eyes. To you, it seems to be an insult. "plenty of respect for elders"? Horsepuckey.
wasting your time ranting
Wasting your time responding with childish insults...
criticizing soldiers
Now you are proving yourself to be a bald-faced liar.
I got no respect for you.
And no respect for yourself either.
don't worry yourself, i won't be a botherin ya anymore
Because you don't have the intelligence or the common sense to back up all your dumbass "tough talk" bullcrap, so you're out of here with your tail between your legs, screaming your mindless hatred over your shoulder as you run for the "good ol' boys club" forum where you can trash talk all you want because there's no one there to disagree with you.
God-fearin' gun-totin, good ole fashioned freedom lovin' americans
You call yourself a "God-fearin', gun-totin', good ole fashioned freedom lovin' American" but you are just a coward in redneck clothing, another swaggering, chickenhawk warmonger who's never served his country or seen a bullet fired in anger.
Good riddance. There's plenty of boards out there that welcome guys like you with open arms. You can spew your crap at each other all day long. Enjoy.
Boogyman
10-30-2006, 19:36
Bill, moderators...
You can do what you think is right about my post above, warn me, ban me, whatever.
But this guy has insulted not only me, but you and the entire board:
this bbs has been overrun with clueless libby blowhards such as yourself and the granpoobah for some time now.
The way ya'll post your anti-american bu!lsh!!
Sad thing is, the guy who does own the board is just as far gone as you
So if I respond in anger, it's in your defense also.
However, if I broke the rules of etiquette here, I'll take my punishment like a man, but I ain't apologizin! :angry:
Teleplayer
10-30-2006, 19:49
Tele.... you aught to pay a little more attention! I'm just not gonna waste much more time with closed minded people... pearls to swine. Arguing with non-believers is like wrestlin with a pig. Ya both get dirty, but the pig loves it.
I'll just repeat what I said earlier, I think you're taking this all just a bit too personal.
As per the thread, you know... winning the hearts and minds, and friendly fire incidents, etc... if you think that we should stop airing those mishaps, you are entitled to that opinion. I happen to disagree.
With only that much information about me, if you are able to deduce that I am against the war, against the soldiers, and anti-American, you are entitled to that opinion. I don't have to agree with your assessment of the war, the soldiers, or my status as an American. As it stands, I served, I got my HONORABLE discharge, I support the soldiers with DONATIONS and purchases from organizations that send care packages to them (if that isn't supporting the soldiers, I don't know what is). And with all that in mind, I can still be against the war! Also, read this part slowly, so you understand... I do NOT think that we should bug out as it stands right now, doing so would create a huge power vacuum that the middle east may not recover from for many years to come.
Now, I have read your posts several times, and had to re-read and re-read just to try and make sense (and to be honest I can't tell if you are addressing me or Boogy, and I can't really tell if you are trying to insult me or not... its just too confusing). So please, take your time in responding. Proof your work before hitting "Submit Reply", that's what the "Preview Post" button is for.
Just remember (and I'm not the one saying this, it is the board moderators): "Political Chit-Chat Politics spoken here! It's encouraged to DEBATE, but mudslinging will NOT be tolerated. KEEP IT FRIENDLY."
I've done no name calling in conversing with you, and I would appreciate the favor being returned.
I think if you are going to exchange ideas in the "Politics" section of a BBS, you get a bit of a thicker skin.
Steve
Teleplayer
10-31-2006, 05:37
Oops! double post
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