From Another Thread

[Boogyman]

So as to avoid "hijacking" the thread in Chit-Chat titled "Something to think about", I decided this discussion is more appropriate here.

Someone has to be the World's Big Brother and help them (the Iraqi's) out!
"Help them out"???

Remind me not to ask for any help from my "Big Brother", ok?

Oh, wait, they didn't ask for any "help" either, did they? :rolleyes:
we would not need to send troops to troubled places to be world police.
Iraq is so much less "troubled" now, huh? :wacko:

And tell me, who elected us the "World Police"? :blink:
The troops are there to make sure there families sleep well and will not see another 9/11.
Even Bush has admitted there was no connection between Iraq and 9/11.

In order to prevent another 9/11, don't you think we should get those responsible for the first 9/11? :wacko:

Oh, and just how well do you think their families are sleeping when their father/son/husband/wife is getting shot at in Iraq? :blink:

No insults, no name-calling, no hijacking, just a few questions for ya'll to "think about"... -_-

[faawrenchbndr]

"Oh, and just how well do you think their families are sleeping when their father/son/husband/wife is getting shot at in Iraq?" :blink:

Is the draft on......I think not. Looks like they are a volunteers!

Been there........done that!
Get over it!

[Boogyman]

"Oh, and just how well do you think their families are sleeping when their father/son/husband/wife is getting shot at in Iraq?" :blink:

Is the draft on......I think not. Looks like they are a volunteers!

Been there........done that!
Get over it!
FWB, you are correct, they are volunteers. However, at least half of them are National Guard and Reservists who were either called back to duty after serving their enlistments, or kids who joined in peacetime to get training and a good education. Also, many are serving a 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th combat tour mandatory.

Serving in Iraq is not a choice for many of our troops. Being the loyal Americans that they are, they go where they're told, follow orders and do their duty honorably and faithfully. And they will all gladly put their lives on the line for their country. The best in the world, you and I know that.

It's the ones that sent them into harms way that I'm talking about. The many "reasons" that were given for invading Iraq initially have proven to be false. Now the country is falling into chaos and civil war, and the violence increases every day. Yet all you hear is "stay the course". There is no plan.

It is inexuseable to keep our troops in this situation simply because our president is too stubborn to admit it's not working, or is unwilling or unable to change strategy. Bush has been accusing others of being "unpatriotic" or cutting and running" for so long now that he's afraid of being seen as "weak" if he strays the slightest bit from his rhetoric.

Troops dying just so a president can save face is unacceptable.

[faawrenchbndr]

Boogy',

I'm not going to get pulled in to a long debate.

I understand where you are coming from. I have served byside many Guardsmen and Reservists. To excuse them because they " just joined to get training and an education" is crap! Many used the system as a paycheck and a free ride, them wanted to bail when Uncle Sam called them up.

I understand many are against the war. My opinions.......Politics got involved and gravely side-tracked what should have been a man-hunt.
I will not discuss politics here......right or wrong.....left or right.......
everyone has an opinion on the war, and a lot of people think everyone's opinion, other than theire stinks.

[Boogyman]

Boogy',I'm not going to get pulled in to a long debate.
Uh, ok. A short one will do. :D
To excuse them because they " just joined to get training and an education" is crap! Many used the system as a paycheck and a free ride, them wanted to bail when Uncle Sam called them up.
Agreed. But you still didn't address the ones called back to duty, or the mandatory multiple combat tours...
Politics got involved and gravely side-tracked what should have been a man-hunt.
That's right.
everyone has an opinion on the war, and a lot of people think everyone's opinion, other than theire stinks.
Human nature, isn't it? ;)

[faawrenchbndr]

"But you still didn't address the ones called back to duty, or the mandatory multiple combat tours..."

They knew what they could be faced with when they origionally enlisted or were commissioned. I, you, and many, many others answered the call!
I willfully served for over 21 years, and was deployed to 29 countries. I have seen the harsh reality of the middle east. US citizens can not imagine the conditions in many of the middle east countries. We are making a difference over there. There are those who wish the US to withdraw. Maybe we should. We have made a difference to some of the Iraqi people. Was it, and is it, worth the loss of our Servicemen? I do not know.
The military is an all volunteer force. There is not one member currently serving has been drafted. Operations have been going on since 1990. Any member who seriously oposed the Iraqi operations has had numerous chances to leave military service since the operations began.
.....that's all I have to say about that.

[Sarge005]

So as to avoid "hijacking" the thread in Chit-Chat titled "Something to think about", I decided this discussion is more appropriate here.


"Help them out"???

Remind me not to ask for any help from my "Big Brother", ok?

Oh, wait, they didn't ask for any "help" either, did they? :rolleyes:

Iraq is so much less "troubled" now, huh? :wacko:

And tell me, who elected us the "World Police"? :blink:

Even Bush has admitted there was no connection between Iraq and 9/11.

In order to prevent another 9/11, don't you think we should get those responsible for the first 9/11? :wacko:

Oh, and just how well do you think their families are sleeping when their father/son/husband/wife is getting shot at in Iraq? :blink:

No insults, no name-calling, no hijacking, just a few questions for ya'll to "think about"... -_-

...what happes after that should be accepted as possible, I never expected that I would always agree with the politcs behind being deployed. I Always new it could and, probably would happen, myself and others I knew, lived with it.

I have yet to know one person, that wouldn't do it again, or is still doing it. Some have moved on, satisfied that they did their jobs (and well). Others are still doing them.

Lastly, anyone who joins and think that the may night have to go into combat, go to a war zone, or be recalled...well, too bad for you, you asked for it. Even if you only thought it would be a ticket to benefits.

Not angry, just my 2 cents. Personally, I wouldn't do one thing different. Right or wrong, we all took an oath, so we did the job...and I know there are some who are better for it..to me it was worth it, even if only a handful are helped.

[josh]

I do take issue with stop-loss being used multiple times to keep the same soldier. But anyone who joined just for a paycheck or to go to college was mighty foolish.

[Boogyman]

I have yet to know one person, that wouldn't do it again

Right or wrong, we all took an oath, so we did the job
Agreed.

If my country called on me, would I do it again? Yes.

Do I have any regrets for myself? No.

Do I have any regrets for the young men I served with who were killed or scarred for life? You're damn right I do.

Would I willingly go back into combat if I had a choice? Only if someone else would have to go in my place. I'd have to be either crazy or stupid to want to do that again.

What I'm trying to say here is our troops are doing their job as asked, no matter how they feel about the war. What I have a big problem with is the people responsible for this war, and keeping them in harm's way now.
It is inexuseable to keep our troops in this situation simply because our president is too stubborn to admit it's not working, or is unwilling or unable to change strategy. Bush has been accusing others of being "unpatriotic" or cutting and running" for so long now that he's afraid of being seen as "weak" if he strays the slightest bit from his rhetoric.
Even the terrorists are changing tactics, adopting new strategies. Bush says he listens to his Commanders, but the opposite is true. And our troops are paying for it.

[chrisb]

That is one bit I will agree with. The strategy in Iraq needs to be changed. I personally think taking on the armed militias and destroying a few of them wouldn't be a bad idea. Should have killed al Sadr when we had the chance. Falluja was the way to win, and they quit right after it.

At the same time the recruiting lines for the Iraqi forces are long, and they keep dying trying to defend their fledging democracy. AQ in Iraq seems to be a distant memory of what it once was, and the problem now seems to be tribal infighting. This is eventually going to have to be solved by the Iraqis. It may require an all out civil war to be resolved, or maybe splitting up the country is the solution. 'Staying the course' isn't the solution IMO.