To build, or to buy?

[BlenderWizard]

I have decided that I want a .308 caliber "military" type rifle. I have decided on either a G3 clone, FAL, or maybe a LAR-10 from RRA (they use FAL mags).
I am also lean towards a 16" or 18" barrel.

I know nothing about building any of these rifles, but I hear it's not hard.

So, my question is: Of these three riles, which one is "better" (more reliable, better aftermarket support for spare parts and "add-on" type doohickeys), and should I buy an assembled one or build it. Cost is a factor. Please be sure to include a brand.

And, if you tell me to build it, can you point me in the right direction to get started?

[gunrun45]

Since I'm the first post, I'm gonna babble a little :)

I'm a G3 fan. I particularly like the Vector arms knock off they have here,

http://www.vectorarms.com/indexframe.html

They use a metal lower and will take H&K parts. Mags are not very expensive lately and quality is high.

They are still not as good as the original H&K, but hey, what is?

I would stay away from the AR10 purely from personal bais against the AR gas system.

The FAL system is a rugged, reliable system also but somehow it never felt right to me when I shoot one. Just a personal thing. If I did, DSA makes a killer one.

All kits for these guns take some tech skills to build. It can be done and can be very rewarding becasue you can make it to your needs at a pace that won't kill your wallet. Read up on the tech manuals before trying and buy one of those "how to" videos that are in the shotgun new mags. Headspacing a FAL barrel, installing hte ejector block, etc... is nothing like bending an AK receiver. Much more detail oriented.

I'm still a big fan of the M14. Nothing smells the same as a Mill spec walnut stock as you touch off a 180grn bullet at a target 300 yards away. It just makes me feel at one with the rifle :) You can buy a mill spec receiver and build one of these also in a more agressive stock like the SAGE or mod a common synthetic stock with an M4 butstock.

Whatever it is, I'm sure you will have loads of fun with it!

[BlenderWizard]

I like DSA's FAL's, except that they use an aluminum receiver on the non-stainless models. Is that a problem?

[Tankcommander]

I went with the G-3 clone and I am totally satisfied. But I am somewhat limited by my state. The PTR91 is tough to beat. Mags are dirt cheap lots of accessories and good customer support. Picture with scope in another thread. Also added a picture without scope.

TC

[lima-charlie]

Nice looking weapon, Tankcommander. The wood furniture looks great. I'll bet it is a real performer too.

lima-charlie

[Tankcommander]

Thanks Lima-Charlie, I have had nothing but good things to say about this weapon. Although I didn't measure it I did get some groups under 2 inches at 100 meters. A picture with scope is in my other thread about the scope mount.

TC

[BlenderWizard]

I went with the G-3 clone and I am totally satisfied. But I am somewhat limited by my state. The PTR91 is tough to beat. Mags are dirt cheap lots of accessories and good customer support. Picture with scope in another thread. Also added a picture without scope.

TC

How unwieldy is the heavy barrel on those?

[Tankcommander]

I never noticed a problem with the barrel at all. The wood furniture and scope add some weight but since in Jersey its only a range gun it doesn't matter. If I had to carry it I would dump the scope. As far as tracking and handiness the barrel doesn't affect it at all.

TC

[SCCogswell]

Building FALs is not hard, and requires only a minimum of specialized tools (receiver wrench, pin set to headspace with, headspace gauges). You already have the Dremel tool(s), right? The "difficult" part is screwing the barrel in with the front sight exactly vertical and headspacing it. Those tasks are not hard or mysterious, but they are exacting. After that, it's just installing the guts as though you detail-stripped it. Any receiver you buy will be a semi-only receiver with the ejector block already installed. Haunt falfiles.com until the gibberish begins to make sense, then, as noted, get the workbook and viddy (Gunplumber's is very good) and read/watch multiple times before wrenching it together.
To clarify the "DSA aluminum receiver" issue: all DSA's rifles have upper receivers made of steel. You can get an aluminum lower receiver from DSA, but that's not a stressed part in a FAL; it provides a bit of weight savings but costs more. If you get a parts kit (ie, ex-military rifle), you'll get a steel lower.
As to FAL v. CETME/G-3 v. M-14/M1A, I've got all 3 types; the FAL is the only one I've got multiples of, and the only one I'd bother building. While I have no doubt the LAR-10 is a nifty rifle, they haven't made a few hundred jillion of them and nobody's military adopted it (or the AR-10, for that matter). The FAL/CETME/M-14 designs have been proven to work well by half a century's worth of muddy soldiers around the world.
Cogswell

[Czechsix]

I'd have to go with the FAL, and build it yourself. Matter of fact, build a few of them - not hard to do once you have the tooling set. The only thing that's becoming relatively dear are the receivers, and they're currently a pain to find.

One thing I'd say to do is find someone that owns both, and fire both. For me, the H&K ergos just don't feel right. FAL feels better to me. Try before you buy.

[torquemada055]

When you have akit you can build or have built what you want, not what someone else thinks you should have. Here's my families FAL's.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x140/torquemada55/triplets.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x140/torquemada55/Picture002.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x140/torquemada55/Curt2.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x140/torquemada55/DSCF2629.jpg
Hope you enjoy the pics, I sure enjoy the "toys" and so does the family!!:D

[garza1290]

I love your collection of FALs, I too have been toying with the idea of getting a .308 military style rifle. If you don't mind, can you label your family of FALs (maker/model). I really love the weapon in the third pic!

thanks,
Roland

[garza1290]

Oh, about how much did rifle in the third pic cost?

[torquemada055]

In the first pic, the one on the left is an FN kit on an Imbel Type 3 and the other 2 are Imbel kits on Imbel Type 3 receivers.
In the 2nd is an Imbel front end, DSA Type 2 receiver, Falcon Para kit and the lower is a refurbed Sarco Para Humper special.
The 3rd is a SA kit with Inch gasblock/frontsight and rear sight, DSA Type 2, and Ironwood Designs stock set in black walnut.
The 4th is an unissued Aussie kit from SLR-5000 of the FALfiles with a DSA Inch receiver built for me by Rich@CGW.

As for the cost, it was right around $900.00 for everything including the build costs. But that total includes the 922r compliance parts and the cut, crown, and thread to the barrel and the shipping charges for all the various parts. The wood was finished at home in the evenings so it was a bit less since that didnt need to be done by an expert.

[Rowdyfisk]

I have decided that I want a .308 caliber "military" type rifle. I have decided on either a G3 clone, FAL, or maybe a LAR-10 from RRA (they use FAL mags).
I am also lean towards a 16" or 18" barrel.

I know nothing about building any of these rifles, but I hear it's not hard.

So, my question is: Of these three riles, which one is "better" (more reliable, better aftermarket support for spare parts and "add-on" type doohickeys), and should I buy an assembled one or build it. Cost is a factor. Please be sure to include a brand.

And, if you tell me to build it, can you point me in the right direction to get started?

OK, first I have HK91, M1A, several FAL's - All are Reliable, accurate rifles, Each has advantages over the other - M1A best sights & trigger and accuracy, HK 2nd best accuracy lots of things you can change around accessorize, FAL toughest most ergonomic and reliable. Right now you can get parts for HK or FAL without problem (not always the case), M14 parts are out there but have never been real cheap like FAL or HK. I don't know anything about the LAR-10 except what I've read on the net, so your on your own with that choice.

As far as your barrel length I'd take 18 over 16 due to noise factor.:cannon:

I wouldn't advise you to build for yourself either HK or M1A. :blink:

- a FAL, yes, you could build it. (I've built several :)) But you'll need several specialty tools, which if your only doing one doesn't make much sense to buy, so if you want to DIY, I'd suggest looking for a build party:D. But look at the cost before you take that choice how much for the US made parts to make it legal, how much for the receiver, and kit cost? I think for what it cost you for the parts you can find one already done cheaper.

So I would advise to purchase a used FAL with the barrel already shortened (and threaded if you want the flashhider) - if you look at factory DSA then you will have to spend a little more - but if you can find a good home built you will save the money and have a good rifle. How to find a good home built is the question. :huh:

I'd look where the people that build them hang out www.FALfiles.com (http://www.FALfiles.com).
You can also read thru all the threads and learn a lot about how they operate, how to build, repair, maintain it (or not http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68486)

Get a dozen mags, a good sling, if you need a scope buy a railed bolt cover. If you want a bipod either get the rifle equiped that way to start (STG or G1 model) or WESOG your own as a challenge.:beer:

Good luck with your choice, the tough part will be feeding it with today's price of ammo.:o

[eau de hoppes]

Nice rifles indeed. In the late 70's there was a tactical shop in SoCal that had on display a mint Lithgow with walnut furniture. Seem to recall it was priced at $1500, a lot of cash for then. I lusted for that gun and would stop in just to look at it. When one day when it was finally gone, I mourned.
Nice work on those guns, Torque...

[capt ron]

g3 kits are getting hard to find ( good anyway). i have done a few, but it is usually cheaper/easier to buy one already built.

fal/L1A1 kits you can still find and receivers. they are not hard to build, just take a little time. some special tools are needed, but the satisfaction of the first round thru them is a "feel good thing."

over the years i have done several. here are a few of them.

[hayes1966]

That is a very nice collection and there is something to be said for building rather than buying.

[squid8286]

A couple of years ago, it was cheaper to build an FAL kit on a decent receiver than it was to buy one already built. Plus, you learned more about the rifle that way. These days, kits have become so expensive it's just as cheap to get a DSA StG 58 already built from the factory. Be careful, though. DSA is running low on StG parts, and from what I have read on the FAL Files, they are starting to substitute certan parts in their StGs that are not working as well as they should. For instance, recent rifles have come with inch bolt assys. in them, with metric firing pins. The firing pins are sticking in the forward position in the bolt, causing a number of problems, some of which are very dangerous. However, if you can find a DSA "factory" StG that is correctly assembled, it is a very nice rifle for a good price.

[HILLBILLY7.62]

If you can find a OLD DSA factory STG build (look for matching #, excellent to new parts & a mint Steyr barrel) for a good price buy it, if not build - The new DSA STG's aren't much - inch bolts, repo us barrels, worn parts, etc. I think the only way to go is to buy a like new STG kit & build it on a good quality receiver (Imbel, DSA, Argentine) and you will have a FAL that is as good as any made. :D

[squid8286]

If you can find a OLD DSA factory STG build (look for matching #, excellent to new parts & a mint Steyr barrel) for a good price buy it, if not build - The new DSA STG's aren't much - inch bolts, repo us barrels, worn parts, etc. I think the only way to go is to buy a like new STG kit & build it on a good quality receiver (Imbel, DSA, Argentine) and you will have a FAL that is as good as any made. :D

That pretty much sums it up!