View Full Version : That is it... I'm a (R) going (D)
OK this is the deal.. As of today it now cost me over $600.00 per month for my Mother's scrips filled. She is now in the hole.... It does not matter that her two doctors say these are needed. That is where Bush and his people have put her....
The "R" seem to justify this this hole. Mother and her sisters work during WWII in plants, but yet while this country can spend Billions of dollars per month on a Bush war, those R's are screwing our own people. I say screw the R
I wish there was a powerful 3rd party.... I'm done with the R's...
If you have a loved one it means you cannot afford the R's solution... this means unless you have money to burn that under the current R's you will not have the meds you Mother, Father, or whateveve needs.. that they will just not be there. Believe me once you are 70 to 80 years old unless we make a change in our direction you will personally be bitten in the butt.Think about it. Your turn is coming sooner than you might think.
Olds
BlenderWizard
09-21-2006, 11:38
I know with my dad's prescriptions, he not only qualified for extra care under medicare, which covers his monthly prescription supplemental insurance (like $28 a month), but it lowered his copay for his med to like $1 or so a piece.
He has also applied for state Medicaid to cover his office visit copays.
Contact your social security and DFCS offices to see if she qualifies for this extra coverage; it sounds like she might.
So, under the D's you'll get her meds for free (saving you the $600 per month). But, you'll have to pay an extra $900 per month in taxes (to help pay for her meds and the meds of all the non tax payers). TANSTAAFL
ice-nine
09-21-2006, 12:38
Olds,
Walmart is running a pilot generic drug program in Florida.
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/09-21-2006/0004437308&EDATE=
Boogyman
09-21-2006, 15:09
OK this is the deal.. As of today it now cost me over $600.00 per month for my Mother's scrips filled. She is now in the hole.... It does not matter that her two doctors say these are needed. That is where Bush and his people have put her....
The "R" seem to justify this this hole. Mother and her sisters work during WWII in plants, but yet while this country can spend Billions of dollars per month on a Bush war, those R's are screwing our own people. I say screw the R
I wish there was a powerful 3rd party.... I'm done with the R's...
If you have a loved one it means you cannot afford the R's solution... this means unless you have money to burn that under the current R's you will not have the meds you Mother, Father, or whatever needs.. that they will just not be there. Believe me once you are 70 to 80 years old unless we make a change in our direction you will personally be bitten in the butt.Think about it. Your turn is coming sooner than you might think.
Olds
And now the R's are making it illegal or impossible to get cheaper prescription drugs from Canada... :angry:
Government for Big Business. Tax breaks and subsidies for Big Oil. Corporate welfare.
The rich get richer and the rest of us get screwed.
And now the R's are making it illegal or impossible to get cheaper prescription drugs from Canada... :angry:
Government for Big Business. Tax breaks and subsidies for Big Oil. Corporate welfare.
The rich get richer and the rest of us get screwed.
I'd love to see unlimited prescription drug importation from Canada. In the long run, I don't think the Canadians would.
The drug companies sell new drugs to Canada at reduced rates (as required by Canadian Law) and make up the R&D costs by overcharging U.S. consumers.
If unlimited reimportation were permitted, either the Canadians would pay more (and we could maybe pay less) or new drugs would not be sold to Canada until (at least) the R&D costs were recovered
So, under the D's you'll get her meds for free (saving you the $600 per month). But, you'll have to pay an extra $900 per month in taxes (to help pay for her meds and the meds of all the non tax payers). TANSTAAFL
"So, under the D's you'll get her meds for free"
What is free? She worked her whole life under what now has become a lie. Her son and daughter in law, that is us pay more in income tax then the average American makes in our state... So what is free????
As for the rest of your statement I don't know where you get your info from... so please supply a foundation for your statement.
I do know that The R's are spending Billions every month on a people that are not Americans, and yet are willing to screw one of the generations of Americans that got this country through hard times. Now talk your way around that one.
I don't know where you get your info from... please supply a foundation for your statement.
I do know that The R's can spend Billions every month on a people that are not Americans, but are willing to screw one of the generations of Americans that got this country through hard times. Now talk your way around that one.
Where do you get your info that it's just the R's that, "spend Billions every month on a people that are not Americans?"
Did this just start in 1994 (when they took control of House), or in 2000 (Bush as President), or in 2002 (nominal control of Senate)?
Believe me, I hate the spending of, "Billions every month on a people that are not Americans," at least as much as you do. But I can't believe you think the D's are going to change that (except maybe to increase it).
The $900 figure was not meant to be accurate, just an example. Without knowing your tax bracket, I couldn't even begin to guess what such a program would cost you in extra taxes.
Still, if you're a middle class taxpayer, you can bet you'll be paying more than your share. As I said, to help pay for meds for the non-taxpayers (not to mention all the fraud, waste, and overhead always associated with a government program).
I don't disagree with your criticism of the R’s, I just don’t think that the D’s will be any better.
"So, under the D's you'll get her meds for free"
What is free? She worked her whole life under what now has become a lie. Her son and daughter in law, that is us pay more in income tax then the average American makes in our state... So what is free????
I see you edited your post while I was replying, so let me address the part you added.
I'm not sure what it is you mean by, "She worked her whole life under what now has become a lie." Do you mean Medicare, Social Security, or what?
If, "Her son and daughter in law, that is us pay more in income tax then the average American makes in our state,"
then I'd be willing to bet that any drug program (that would really help your Mother) would cost you far more in extra taxes than what you are paying now. That was the point I was trying to make.
"So what is free????" For a taxpayer, nothing from the government. (Another story for those that don't pay).
cma g21 I'm not going to go back and forth with you and from your postings I don't think you care to either.
I see you live in the same state I do. My statement was not to be an insult concerning that we pay more in income taxes than most make here. If I have insulted you in that area please accept my apology. That was not my intent. As far as my edit goes I hit "post" instead of "preview."
Are the Ds better than the Rs? Maybe not. However, the only thing I can do in effort to get the Rs attention is vote Ds this time.
Don't get me wrong. There are not many persons I can say I flat out hate. I state that I flat out hate till this day Clinton. That cigar business in what I hold to be the Holies of holy of this country still digs at me.
Plus I have no USE for Bush....
I hope there is no hard feelings between us. I can only say that I'm glad that this Ole carpet cleaner and his school teaching wife together earn enough monies to cover my Mother's meds....
No hard feelings at all, and I never took anything you said as an insult.
I don't think our positions are all that far apart (we see the same problems, but differ on solutions).
Sending a message to the R's is a great idea. I just fear the D's gun control positions a little too much right now to risk putting them in power.
I wish you the best with your Mother (maybe the new Wal-Mart drug plan that ice-nine mentioned will help).
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060921/D8K9A7TO7.html
cma g21 I'm not going to go back and forth with you and from your postings I don't think you care to either.
I see you live in the same state I do. My statement was not to be an insult concerning that we pay more in income taxes than most make here. If I have insulted you in that area please accept my apology. That was not my intent. As far as my edit goes I hit "post" instead of "preview."
Are the Ds better than the Rs? Maybe not. However, the only thing I can do in effort to get the Rs attention is vote Ds this time.
Don't get me wrong. There are not many persons I can say I flat out hate. I state that I flat out hate till this day Clinton. That cigar business in what I hold to be the Holies of holy of this country still digs at me.
Plus I have no USE for Bush....
I hope there is no hard feelings between us. I can only say that I'm glad that this Ole carpet cleaner and his school teaching wife together earn enough monies to cover my Mother's meds....
Olds
I would ask what you think the real solution to this problem is - and a problem it is?
We rant and we rave about this problem - though it is not one of only the elderly - many working families have the same problem.
Are more taxes and socialized medicine the answer?
Is the expectation that families, churches, civic groups should step up to help these individuals the answer?
Bush suggested allowing us to invest Social Security income - you see how far that got with the Democrats - maybe medical savings plans (true savings plans that are tax sheltered - as long as it is being used for medical) is an idea?
Attacking a single party for this problem is your perogative - though I do think you should look at the track records of both parties concerning this issue. I think the Democrats will give us Socialized medicine if we allow them to at the cost of much much more in taxes - maybe that is the answer. My feeling on this is that there will be less development for new drugs (not fully funded by the Government - more taxes) and medical procedures. On the upside, more people would have easy PAID (in a legitimate) access to medical care - so overall care might be better - i.e., more immunizations etc. - but high end care would definitely suffer - especially rare type diseases and conditions.
Currently, our real issues surrounding the health care in total is along two lines. Drugs - which we currently pay a premium for because most country's set the price on drugs (socialized medicine) - this is another way we as Americans share our wealth - though it is rarely noted. So we either set prices and stymie R&D or we come up with an alternative - perhaps more taxes for research such that the American people own the Patents as a group through the Government - these then licensed to businesses for sale and the Government gets royalties to offset research funds - or better yet allow more than one company to make the drug - thus, creating competition keeping drugs lower.
Health care is another issue. Currently, the biggest problem here is uninsured, indigent and alien health care - we pay for them not through taxes but our medical expenses and insurance as the providers need to recoup losses. Again, we have the problem of what to do - Socialize medicine and then have all Doctor's as government employee's - we have that with teachers - look at their pay and benefits and the problems with keeping quality people. So I do not see that as a solution. That leaves the finding a way to control the three non paying groups. We have tried this with medicaid - doesn't seem to be working. First the alien health care can be taken care of if we get a handle on our Borders (which a large number of Republican's have tried to do) and then make sure those coming in actually do pay their taxes (I am not sure they really do - given a lot of work is on a cash only basis). Uninsured and indigent care is another problem - and I am not sure what the answer is - obviously we need a safety net - but forcing businesses to supply this only passes it to the consumer and we are already trying to cover this with taxes as well.
Again, what is the solution - simply voting against Republican or Democrats for that matter is not going to get us to the solution - what we need is to look at those that have ideas and vote for the individual we think has the best approach to solving the problem.
I would support a transition to Social Security being invested (would have to be a transition plan to keep people from falling through the cracks), I would support more research on drugs that is Government funded and then held in trust for U.S. citizens - through either royalties or multiple licenses to keep prices down, I would support a transition away from Medicare to medical savings plans that would take care of say up to $20,000 or so and then having a reinsurance or catastrophic plan to pickup after that. This puts the onus back on the individual to know the exact cost of their care. Thats my short list - I have thought of others but not sure all or any would really work.
JimS
Personally when people complain about the Medicare prescription drugs benefit I’m confused. There was no prescription Drug benefit for Medicare, None then when the one provided is not as much as you would like you act like the republicans cut an existing one. So no drug benefits under the Dems, Drug benefit under republicans but the republicans are the bad guys here. Not supporting either side in this statement just pointing out the lack of logic.
Yes Prices are too high but be careful messing with the system I would venture to say that many of these drugs only exist because the profit is so high. Having lived with government controlled health care for years I would tell you the price is great, the care is substandard.
The government rarely manages anything well (and that’s being generous). For instance I got my yearly social security statement this month. I was pretty surprised at how much I have paid in over the last 30 years and I got out my little spreadsheet and ran some numbers. Unfortunately I didn’t save them but my memory will be close. Since the historic return on the stock market over the last 70 years is 10% I used 8% for a return. The SS administration said at age 62 I could expect about $1700 a month. If I invested what I have paid in to date and never paid another dime at age 62 I could collect about twice that for 20 years. If I continued to pay in at my present rate I would collect about $6000. I did not go back and figure what it would be if it had been invested from the start but it would have been substantially more. My feeling is that if you are going to err one way or the other it should be to the side of less government control. The statement "the government ought to do somthing" should scare us to our very bones.
Olds
I would ask what you think the real solution to this problem is... - and a problem it is?
OK! You asked and I will answer. I will address this as I do my own personal world and family.
1.) Never spend monies you don't have. (Stop trying to be the world's police Department / Savor.)
2.) If needed get a second job. (Raise taxes to cover cost rather than put it on a credit card--issuing bonds that go out to 30 years is a fools play!)
3.) Don't make promises you cannot keep. (Don't tell your neighbor I'm going to rid your of the termites in your fence by removing the fence and I'm going to replacing it with something better than super glue. Iraq and others comes to mind here.)
4.) Don't impose your will upon others. (Just to many examples to list.)
5.) Take care of your family first before you spend your monies on others. (How many other countries are we collective spending billions of dollars on per month (remember these are monies we are putting on a credit card,) but yet fail to address our own people in the same gene? God forbid that we treat our own as we treat those that are not our own! They might get something for free.)
I would continue but I feel these 5 are a good starting point.
As I said you asked and I have shared these 5 points. I will be looking forward to debatable (if any) replies.
OK! You asked and I will answer. I will address this as I do my own personal world and family.
1.) Never spend monies you don't have. (Stop trying to be the world's police Department / Savor.)
2.) If needed get a second job. (Raise taxes to cover cost rather than put it on a credit card--issuing bonds that go out to 30 years is a fools play!)
3.) Don't make promises you cannot keep. (Don't tell your neighbor I'm going to rid your of the termites in your fence by removing the fence and I'm going to replacing it with something better than super glue. Iraq and others comes to mind here.)
4.) Don't impose your will upon others. (Just to many examples to list.)
5.) Take care of your family first before you spend your monies on others. (How many other countries are we collective spending billions of dollars on per month (remember these are monies we are putting on a credit card,) but yet fail to address our own people in the same gene? God forbid that we treat our own as we treat those that are not our own! They might get something for free.)
I would continue but I feel these 5 are a good starting point.
As I said you asked and I have shared these 5 points. I will be looking forward to debatable (if any) replies.
Olds
These are your belief set - and I can not really argue those - as I share a number of them.
However, the belief set in and of itself does not really fix the problem of health care costs and access (seems to be the problem the Democrats have with World Terrorism, they present a belief set - not a solution). The increasing taxes simply does what we have done in the past - shifts the burden to those that work and pay taxes (in fact it is what we do now and as I pointed out is the problem with high costs of medicine and provider care as hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, and doctors shift the costs to those of us that have insurance. Your raise taxes scheme seems to indicate that you are willing to socialize our medicine or at the very least raise taxes an incredible amount to pay for it. Increased taxes would not necessarily give the Government more money - it would in all likelihood decrease the Government's income.
I won't argue the help to other countries - that is an issue that I wrestle with myself (given, what God has blessed this country with in terms of wealth - I find myself not begruding the help) - though that is really a pittance against our current entitlement programs.
As to being the World's police - well - my feelings are different than yours on that issue - in that I believe that if we do not continue to oppose (from many different angles diplomacy and trade restrictions to force) those that are oppressive and are creating human rights violations (many actually have a vote in the UN) - then we will not long have our own freedom's and liberties.
My own parents are at the age that they will very soon be drawing not only Social Security but also Medicare - so as their son it may fall to me to help them with their medicines. I prefer that over the idea that the Government would provide all of our health care. Currently those not making enough money (do not know the threshold) can get Medicaid to help.
This is a problem I struggled with over nearly 6 years serving on a University's Insurance Committee - we were self insured and were constantly trying to keep costs from going up without losing benefits or causing people to leave the Insurance group (which only caused our costs to increase further as more people became uninsured and went to being unisured or drawing Medicaid if eligible).
I empathize and sympathize with your current frustration with the system as it currently exists. And you certainly have the right as an American to vote any way you please - but as I said - merely changing in a protest vote really changes little - one should look to support those that clearly support as many of the beliefs one holds as possible. If Democrats are in fact more inline with your belief set then you could not in good conscience (at least I can not - do not mean to project my feelings to you) vote for Republicans over Democrats. On the other hand, ........ well I think you can figure that for yourself.
On another note, I continue to pray for you and your wife - I sincerely hope the two of you beat this.
May God Bless you and your family - may you feel his love and presence.
JimS
DaveyDug
09-23-2006, 15:19
Are the Ds better than the Rs? Maybe not. However, the only thing I can do in effort to get the Rs attention is vote Ds this time.
I've been trying, and for the life of me, I can't come up with a worse solution to your problem than to start to vote Democrat. Ever hear the expression "Jumping from the frying pan into the fire"? Think, man.
Do you honestly think that things like foreign aid and high health care expenses are going to go away if we start to elect Democrats rather than Republicans?
Do what you know is right, and don't succumb to a knee jerk reaction just because you're mad at the Republicans. You know the answer... you stated it yourself in your very first post. VOTE THIRD PARTY!!
Nothing will send a message to the fools in Washington like voting for somebody other than an elephant or jackass. No, I don't expect a third party candidate to win, but if enough of us show these idiots that we're fed up with the status quo, maybe they'll pull their heads out of their butts and smell the coffee. We've been on the same downward spiral for many decades now, going back and forth between the two big parties. Why would any reasonable person expect things to change now? I believe it was Einstein that said something like "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results." That's good advice. Nothing is going to change for the better in this country as long as Republicans and Democrats continue along their current paths. The best way to invoke change is to send them a STRONG message. The best way to send them a message is to vote, and vote for somebody, ANYBODY other than them.
I've been trying, and for the life of me, I can't come up with a worse solution to your problem than to start to vote Democrat. Ever hear the expression "Jumping from the frying pan into the fire"? Think, man.
Do you honestly think that things like foreign aid and high health care expenses are going to go away if we start to elect Democrats rather than Republicans?
Do what you know is right, and don't succumb to a knee jerk reaction just because you're mad at the Republicans. You know the answer... you stated it yourself in your very first post. VOTE THIRD PARTY!!
Nothing will send a message to the fools in Washington like voting for somebody other than an elephant or jackass. No, I don't expect a third party candidate to win, but if enough of us show these idiots that we're fed up with the status quo, maybe they'll pull their heads out of their butts and smell the coffee. We've been on the same downward spiral for many decades now, going back and forth between the two big parties. Why would any reasonable person expect things to change now? I believe it was Einstein that said something like "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results." That's good advice. Nothing is going to change for the better in this country as long as Republicans and Democrats continue along their current paths. The best way to invoke change is to send them a STRONG message. The best way to send them a message is to vote, and vote for somebody, ANYBODY other than them.
DaveyDug
What does voting for a third party that does not represent your value system do - other than to send a false message about your value system to those in Washington - this is the very reason I think voting a party ticket is wrong when the person you vote for does not represent your values. I understand the frustration - but would it not be better to vote your values and then if there is a race that has no one representing your values - simply bypass voting in that slot. Also, actively letting your Senators and Representatives now how you feel - does impact them (especially if many people feel the same way) - but it requires you to take the time to write and be thoughtful and constructive.
JimS
DaveyDug
09-23-2006, 23:32
Judging from Olds's posts, I am almost positive that there will be a third party candidate that would match his values more closely than a Democrat's. But I wholeheartedly agree that you should vote for the individual and not the party.
(seems to be the problem the Democrats have with World Terrorism, they present a belief set - not a solution).
In today's newspaper there is an article / assessment of terrorism trends by U.S. intelligence agencies has found that the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that overall terrorist threat has grown since the September 11, 2001 attacks.
I just don't see our Republican Administration's current solution working.
I'm not at all for raising taxes. Although from my statement it would seem on the surface that is what I'm saying. Allow me to clarify. I would rather pay more taxes now then to continue to borrow "Billions" of dollars every month to pay for things we just cannot currently afford. Going back to my 1. Never spend monies you don't have, is something I have lived by most of my life.
I'm just about willing to bet that most adult folks are like me. They live within their budget. If they want something outside of that budget they either live without it or they get a second job to pay for it. Our country is not following this philosophy. Theirs is buy now pay later with much interest.
Let me ask you. What do you think will happen when those 30 year IOU notes come due if our country has not changed its lifestyle? How does a country file bankruptcy when those 30 year old notes come due and we owe more on them than we take in?
Perhaps I'm just estranged in this area.
On another note, I continue to pray for you and your wife - I sincerely hope the two of you beat this.
Thank you. This Tuesday my baby-girl is having another test, and this one has got her spooked, so I going with her as a security blanket.
Judging from Olds's posts, I am almost positive that there will be a third party candidate that would match his values more closely than a Democrat's. Perhaps...
EDIT for double wording.
What no more debate? My logic to clear? I would like to see those here who stand by the Rs & Ds to show me how we can spend more than we can currently afford and and how we are going to pay back those we owe monies to.
Rs = less taxes = less monies = borrow more monies.
Ds = more taxes = more programs = borrow more monies.
Anyone out here???? Anyone have a solution other than my suggestions?
Boogyman
09-25-2006, 17:52
What no more debate? My logic to clear? I would like to see those here who stand by the Rs & Ds to show me how we can spend more than we can currently afford and and how we are going to pay back those we owe monies to.
Rs = less taxes = less monies = borrow more monies.
Ds = more taxes = more programs = borrow more monies.
Anyone out here???? Anyone have a solution other than my suggestions?
Bring back Bill Clinton. ;)
In today's newspaper there is an article / assessment of terrorism trends by U.S. intelligence agencies has found that the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that overall terrorist threat has grown since the September 11, 2001 attacks.
I just don't see our Republican Administration's current solution working.
I'm not at all for raising taxes. Although from my statement it would seem on the surface that is what I'm saying. Allow me to clarify. I would rather pay more taxes now then to continue to borrow "Billions" of dollars every month to pay for things we just cannot currently afford. Going back to my 1. Never spend monies you don't have, is something I have lived by most of my life.
I'm just about willing to bet that most adult folks are like me. They live within their budget. If they want something outside of that budget they either live without it or they get a second job to pay for it. Our country is not following this philosophy. Theirs is buy now pay later with much interest.
Let me ask you. What do you think will happen when those 30 year IOU notes come due if our country has not changed its lifestyle? How does a country file bankruptcy when those 30 year old notes come due and we owe more on them than we take in?
Perhaps I'm just estranged in this area.
Thank you. This Tuesday my baby-girl is having another test, and this one has got her spooked, so I going with her as a security blanket.
Perhaps...
EDIT for double wording.
Olds
Can not say I disagree with your first rule - and am not trying to avoid discussing the issue - just been looking at the U.S. budget - to see what I might do to take care of the deficit.
Problem is the place one could actually balance the budget is there very place the problem apparently exists - i.e., entitlements - nearly 2/3rds of the budget (64.5% and climbing) w/the Military at ~20% - that only leaves 15% of the budget - which supports things like road construction, research (which actually helps the medical issues if used correctly as well as insuring our food remains safe and available), law enforcement, etc. Not sure how you balance the budget without taking a truly hard look at the entitlements we are discussing.
I really have no answer at this point. As I said, I can not disagree with your spending premise - but see no real option except truly getting serious about entitlements - and I have already explained in my first post how I might approach it in the long run.
JimS
Olds
How did your wife's tests go - I am praying that things went well.
JimS
vBulletin® v3.7.0, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.