Ted Nugent and Canned Hunting

[Boogyman]

In a day and age when whitetail deer populations are at record levels, and elk populations are holding steady or increasing over much of their range, more and more hunters are embracing the challenge of bow and blackpowder in order to keep in contact with the elements of skill and chance that are at the core of the true hunting experience.

Of course not everyone is so conscientious.

There’s always Ted Nugent. Ted Nugent, for those who do not know, is the loud adolescent faded rock-star who now holds forth on right-wing radio. He is all blood and guts, tough talk and feisty belligerence. He likes to accuse everyone else of being a weak-knee'd “pastrami-breath" liberal, and a cut-and-run chicken.

What his fans do not know is that Ted himself was a Vietnam draft dodger who got himself cut loose from service by showing up for his physical covered in his own feces and after not showering in weeks. He had a child out of wedlock and only ponied up support when the court forced him to. Real family values. A Great American.

But never mind that. He’s a hunter, right?

Well maybe not.

It turns out that Ted Nugent is not just a sunshine patriot, he is also a canned hunter. In fact, Ted runs his own canned hunt facility in Michigan called Sunrize Acres where, for a hefty fee, you can shoot tame buffalo that have been trucked to his 340-acre spread.

Along with buffalo, Ted's farm is a pay-shoot for whitetail deer ($2,000 for a doe!), wild boar, “exotic ram” (that would be farm goats for you who are wondering), and Sika and Fallow deer.

These are not wild animals -- they are trucked-in farm stock. The bison are no better than glorified farm cows, the Russian boar are no better than glorified farm pigs, the "exotic rams" are just farm goats, and the deer are corn-fed dependents.

Cartoon buffoons like Ted Nugent and his canned hunt farm are, I am sad to say, the loud and ugly public face of hunting in America today.

http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/

[Boogyman]

This is a great blog for hunters. It is run by a hunter, for hunters that understand the true meaning of hunting and sportsmanship.

Excerpt:

"Here too we have hunting in a variety of manifestations from "tower shoots," where captive pen-raised birds are tossed into the air from a tower while gunners blast away, to "plant and shoot" releases of birds into a field the night before, to stocked and "naturalized" birds released at the start of a shooting season.

The parallels to "kiddy pool" fishing, over-stocked pay-lakes, and "wild stocked" streams and ponds is obvious.

Again, where do we draw the line?

In my opinion, tower shoots are pathetic, and so too is any form of stocked shooting where a man or woman can plink more birds in a day than he can put in his freezer at night.

At some point, you are not "hunting," you are just killing chickens.

The issue here is not "animal rights." The issue is fakery and debasement of a true set of skills. Shooting brain-addled pen-raised birds under the umbrella of "hunting" debases the art of true hunting. When we snap-trap a few mice in the garage, we do not talk about a "holocaust of mice" -- to do so would be to cheapen the horror of the Holocaust while dramatically inflating the status of rodents and denigrating the lives of millions of once-vital human being.

Language matters.

And so it is with guaranteed bird shoots and pay-pond fishing. Angling is an art, and hunting assumes an element of field craft not evident when birds are purchased as units like Chicken McNuggets.

Hunting is about the experience over the day, not the number of fish boated or birds bagged."

http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/

[plinky]

Not very sportsmanlike but LEGAL since you emhasized this point in the thread with the country singer and the bear.

[Boogyman]

Not very sportsmanlike but LEGAL since you emhasized this point in the thread with the country singer and the bear.

Yeah, it's legal. But is it ethical?

Anything for a $buck$, huh?

Excerpt: "When I was living in Pennsylvania, a local hunting preserve somehow heard I had traveled to hunt big game, so the owner assumed I was rich and would be interested in his trophy deer operation. Both assumptions are false, but I accepted his invitation to tour the place he called 'Deerassic Park.' During my two hours, I had huge trophy deer parade by me 20 yards away. The guide told me 'Five thousand dollars may seem like a lot for a deer now, but in the second week of deer season, when all your coworkers are asking if you got your deer, it won't seem so much.' He was wrong again. The deer were raised in carefully controlled pens, like cattle, to ensure the best genetics. The bucks were then periodically released. I cringed when I read purple-prose stories by 'famous outdoor writers' who embarked on the challenge of hunting deer at this place. Shooting one of my father-in-law's dairy cows would be just as challenging, and as fun."

http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/

[plinky]

Yeah, it's legal. But is it ethical?

Anything for a $buck$, huh?

Personally I would be disgusted by myself if I participated in such a canned hunt...but to each their own...it`s not against the law...

[Boogyman]

Personally I would be disgusted by myself if I participated in such a canned hunt...but to each their own...it`s not against the law...

Have you considered how this type of behavior gives all hunters a bad name? And it gives anti-hunters and anti-gunners choice ammunition to use against us.

Everyone is always screaming about preserving our hunting and gun rights, and how the anti-gun laws are unfair and unconstitutional. Yet the same people will defend this disgusting behavior on the basis of "It's OK because it's legal". WTF?

We are all representatives of our sport, and we all have a responsibility to preserve the dignity and integrity of hunting and gun ownership. Instead of defending this crap, we should be condemning it.

[plinky]

Have you considered how this type of behavior gives all hunters a bad name? And it gives anti-hunters and anti-gunners choice ammunition to use against us.

Everyone is always screaming about preserving our hunting and gun rights, and how the anti-gun laws are unfair and unconstitutional. Yet the same people will defend this disgusting behavior on the basis of "It's OK because it's legal". WTF?

We are all representatives of our sport, and we all have a responsibility to preserve the dignity and integrity of hunting and gun ownership. Instead of defending this crap, we should be condemning it.

I can see where you come from but from what I observed yet, canned hunts are more frequently critizised by serious hunters than by gun grabbers who are rather concerned by gun related violence.

[Boogyman]

I can see where you come from but from what I observed yet, canned hunts are more frequently critizised by serious hunters than by gun grabbers who are rather concerned by gun related violence.

Really?

I guess you haven't heard of PETA, the SPCA, the Sierra Club, the Humane Society, Greenpeace, and many more anti-hunting organizations that love to use this sh*t to make all hunting look bad.

I don't see why you are defending a practice that you yourself said this about:
Personally I would be disgusted by myself if I participated in such a canned hunt

[plinky]

Really?

I guess you haven't heard of PETA, the SPCA, the Sierra Club, the Humane Society, Greenpeace, and many more anti-hunting organizations that love to use this sh*t to make all hunting look bad.

I don't see why you are defending a practice that you yourself said this about:

The org`s you`ve mentioned are nothing but a bunch of clowns who are are not exactly influential on anti gun legislations, like I already said the gun grabbing politicians` top argument is gun related violence.

Btw, what makes you think that I`m defending canned hunts? I just said it`s not against the law , that`s all.

[freesw]

Matt M. in Idaho correctly notes that canned birds hunts are becoming more popular in the U.S., and canned deer hunts as well. Though he lives in one of the wildest states in the U.S., there are at least four commercial bird shoots with an hour or two of where he lives.

Matt writes:

"When I was living in Pennsylvania, a local hunting preserve somehow heard I had traveled to hunt big game, so the owner assumed I was rich and would be interested in his trophy deer operation. Both assumptions are false, but I accepted his invitation to tour the place he called 'Deerassic Park.' During my two hours, I had huge trophy deer parade by me 20 yards away. The guide told me 'Five thousand dollars may seem like a lot for a deer now, but in the second week of deer season, when all your coworkers are asking if you got your deer, it won't seem so much.' He was wrong again. The deer were raised in carefully controlled pens, like cattle, to ensure the best genetics. The bucks were then periodically released. I cringed when I read purple-prose stories by 'famous outdoor writers' who embarked on the challenge of hunting deer at this place. Shooting one of my father-in-law's dairy cows would be just as challenging, and as fun."

I had no idea these things had become so widespread.

--------

Patrick continues:

The types of questions and dilemmas I have posed here are relatively new. Our grandfathers did not have canned hunts and potted bird shoots. This is not part of the American hunting tradition most of us grew up with.

So what has changed?

To some extent, population growth is part of the problem. Though the percentage of hunters may be less than it was in years past, the absolute number is higher than it was 50 years ago due to rapid U.S. population growth. With increasing population density and suburban sprawl has come greater distance to suitably large farms, forests and fields.

More important than suburban sprawl and hunter density, however, is the fact that America has become a land of rapidly rising expectations and a rapidly declining ability to delay gratification.

The American public wants everything it can imagine, and it wants it NOW, and it wants it “super-sized.” We want fast food, fast cars, and instant communication. We want bigger houses, more money and early retirement.

In short, we have become a nation of spoiled, rich and demanding children. The rise of commercial shooting preserves is simply an outgrowth of that phenomenon. Canned hunt operators are, in effect, telling their client base:

"We know you have zero knowledge of field craft or wildlife and that everything has to be easy for you or you will pout. So, just like your Daddy did when you were 6 years old, we are going to rig every game you play so you will always win. And when you do manage to kill some brain-addled, food dependent, hand-tamed creature, we will slap you on the back and say, 'Look what a BIG boy you are!'"

This type of canned shoot is to real hunting what peroxide-blonde hookers are to marriage: a sad charade that debases the individual and jeopardizes the institution.

[plinky]

Matt M. in Idaho correctly notes that canned birds hunts are becoming more popular in the U.S., and canned deer hunts as well. Though he lives in one of the wildest states in the U.S., there are at least four commercial bird shoots with an hour or two of where he lives.

Matt writes:

"When I was living in Pennsylvania, a local hunting preserve somehow heard I had traveled to hunt big game, so the owner assumed I was rich and would be interested in his trophy deer operation. Both assumptions are false, but I accepted his invitation to tour the place he called 'Deerassic Park.' During my two hours, I had huge trophy deer parade by me 20 yards away. The guide told me 'Five thousand dollars may seem like a lot for a deer now, but in the second week of deer season, when all your coworkers are asking if you got your deer, it won't seem so much.' He was wrong again. The deer were raised in carefully controlled pens, like cattle, to ensure the best genetics. The bucks were then periodically released. I cringed when I read purple-prose stories by 'famous outdoor writers' who embarked on the challenge of hunting deer at this place. Shooting one of my father-in-law's dairy cows would be just as challenging, and as fun."

I had no idea these things had become so widespread.

Neither did I. Good post btw.

[wardlo]

boogyman, I don't post very much, but as far as ted nugent I agree with everything you say. I live here in Texas, where he is in all the TPW pictures. At all the important meetings, and even has a street name here in Austin. I too have seen his web site and all the good things he says he does. I do not care for canned hunts or high fences. His reality show, I watched as his driver ran over a young teen with a car then told the others to buck up this real life. I personally do not need ted nugent as a rep. for me or my hunting or gun rights.

[Dorkface]

Yeah, it's legal. But is it ethical?

I had a business teacher who said "The lowest form of ethics is being legal"....

[markw76]

I personally make the differentiation between canned hunts, where the animal is far from wild and the area involved is ridiculously limited, and hunting preserves, where it may take 2 hours to walk across it, the animals are managed but forage rather than are fed, etc. Many other people do not, lefties for example. I do agree that even the appearance of being canned has a negative effect on the image of hunting, but the anti-hunting types many times consider using a firearm, optics, even a compass an unfair advantage over a four-legged animal that can out hear, out smell, out run and out gore you given the chance. First post! I don't even remember registering back in '03 though. Forum was mentioned in yet another forum which led me back.

[Hoodoo]

Boogeyman, I am certainly not an expert on Ted Nugent; however, the few instances I have seen him on TV, his mannerism's left something to be desired. Of far more importance though, is the validity of what he says. I find some of it, though not necessarily all, to be on target. I tend to pay far more attention to what someone says than how they say it or at least consider what they say no matter how it's said-just a personal failing I need to correct.

Yeah, I'm not much on "canned" hunts and won't go on one myself, but I'm not going to criticise those who do. For many people, that is about the only they can realistically hunt anymore. I see no reason to get particularly concerned over what the anti-hunting crowd says. There is no limit to what these left wing freaks can find to whine about-if it's not this, it will only be something else.

[tri70]

Its hard to find places to hunt and places that are not over hunted. These places make it easy for someone to get out and hunt and bring a freind into the field as well. A place to stay and clean up, fix your own meal or have fixed for you. You don't have to worry about anti's marching thru the woods banging things and making noise to disturb everything in 5 mile area. They have there place in the hunting world, I go pheasant hunting in SD where they raise the birds and turn them out to the wild for the hunts, the birds fly away from people and not very tame for pen raised birds.

-tri

[Boogyman]

Boogeyman, I am certainly not an expert on Ted Nugent; however, the few instances I have seen him on TV, his mannerism's left something to be desired. Of far more importance though, is the validity of what he says. I find some of it, though not necessarily all, to be on target. I tend to pay far more attention to what someone says than how they say it or at least consider what they say no matter how it's said-just a personal failing I need to correct..
I tend to pay more attention to a man's character than what he says.

Teddy's mannerisms sure are obnoxious, but the fact he's a liar and a draft-dodger makes what he says irrelevant. I know he's a liar because he says he NEVER used drugs or alchohol, and I saw him staggering around on stage drinking Jack and smoking a joint back in the early seventies.

Yeah, I'm not much on "canned" hunts and won't go on one myself, but I'm not going to criticise those who do. For many people, that is about the only they can realistically hunt anymore. I see no reason to get particularly concerned over what the anti-hunting crowd says. There is no limit to what these left wing freaks can find to whine about-if it's not this, it will only be something else.
On the contrary, you should be VERY concerned about what the anti-hunting crowd says. "Know thy Enemy". This attitude of "screw 'em all, let's wave some dead carcasses in their faces and laugh" is more harmful to hunting than any PETA protest.

These "left-wing freaks" and their "whining" happen to be American citizens who have a right to their opinion, right or wrong. It is far more productive that we educate them to the true integrity and values that traditional hunting stands for. Defending idiots like Nugent only makes us all look like ignorant jackasses.

I sure as hell don't want him representing me, or teaching my children what he calls "hunting".

[freesw]

These "left-wing freaks" and their "whining" happen to be American citizens who have a right to their opinion, right or wrong. It is far more productive that we educate them to the true integrity and values that traditional hunting stands for. Defending idiots like Nugent only makes us all look like ignorant jackasses.

I happen to live in Texas's oasis of liberalism (AKA Tom DeLay's Waterloo :D )
so I know quite a few "liberals." Some on this forum would no doubt classify me as one, though that's a matter of degree, and in fact, I differ substantially from most modern-day "liberals." But I can attest that the vast majority of those classified as "liberals" these days are not irrational when it comes to issues like firearms ownership and hunting. They may be mistaken, but they are not necessarily closed-minded. Most likely no one has ever sat and explained the other point of view to them, really listened to their side, and answered their questions. There are many who would not be persuaded no matter what, but at least they might not be so vehement after having someone explain to them what it was like to go hunting while growing up, for instance. Most anti-hunters these days will at least concede that hunters have a vested interest in the preservation of the environment, and that is as good a place as any to begin to reach some kind of common ground. Finally, may I present:
http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2005/07/real-threat-to-hunting-in-america_13.html

For America's hunters, fluttering orange tape and popsicle-colored sticks mean only one thing: Doom.

This is the spoor of the tract-home surveyor. This is the end of the game.
...

[Boogyman]

Its hard to find places to hunt and places that are not over hunted. These places make it easy for someone to get out and hunt and bring a freind into the field as well. A place to stay and clean up, fix your own meal or have fixed for you. You don't have to worry about anti's marching thru the woods banging things and making noise to disturb everything in 5 mile area. They have there place in the hunting world, I go pheasant hunting in SD where they raise the birds and turn them out to the wild for the hunts, the birds fly away from people and not very tame for pen raised birds.
-tri
Since when is hunting supposed to be "easy"?

The very nature of hunting is it's value in building character and teaching skills and patience. The perserverance and stamina required to out-wit and out-maneuver your quarry, and the respect and appreciation for nature and the game animal itself are invaluable tools that help build strong values and integrity.

Canned hunts teach nothing except that money brings instant gratification. They only contribute to the corruption of sportsmanship. Our Great-Grandfathers would puke if they saw this crap.

I can't count how many times I spent the whole day out in the freezing rain or knee-deep snow, intently stalking an elusive prey that always remained just out of my sights. But even though I came home empty-handed that day, as I sat next to the woodstove warming my bones and reflecting on all I learned about both myself and nature, dammit, it felt good. It made me feel like a man. And when I finally made my kill, I knew that I deserved it, that I had earned it. And every time I sit at a meal of venison steaks or roast pheasant, that feeling comes back to make it the best meal I've ever had.

You don't get that from shooting fish in a barrel.

[tri70]

I hear what your saying boogy, it my dad and his buddies that get more out of it than I do because their old and can't get around in the field like they used too. I just enjoy going somewhere to hunt with my dad. I'm like you in that I don't get a deer every year or turkey but I'm always there. And not everyone has a place to go and land to hunt on, thats what keeps these places in business.

-tri

[plinky]

Our Great-Grandfathers would puke if they saw this crap.

Not unless they were Indians (Native Americans). Our (white) Great-Grandfathers eradicated entire herds from moving trains just for the sake of killing.

I agree with the rest of your post though.

[Boogyman]

Not unless they were Indians (Native Americans). Our (white) Great-Grandfathers eradicated entire herds from moving trains just for the sake of killing.

I agree with the rest of your post though.

You're right about that, Plinky. And many of the Buffalo "hunters" did it for the money, taking the hides and leaving all the meat to rot. I'm not proud of the way many white europeans conducted themselves back then, and even now.

My ol' lady is Cherokee. Her ancestors walked the Trail of Tears.

'Nuff said.

[plinky]

My ol' lady is Cherokee. Her ancestors walked the Trail of Tears.

'Nuff said.

:beer:

[Boogyman]

:beer:

[Boogyman]

I hear what your saying boogy, it my dad and his buddies that get more out of it than I do because their old and can't get around in the field like they used too. I just enjoy going somewhere to hunt with my dad. I'm like you in that I don't get a deer every year or turkey but I'm always there. And not everyone has a place to go and land to hunt on, thats what keeps these places in business.

-tri

Tri, I understand about you wanting to hunt with your Dad as much as possible. My Dad passed away going on two years now, but the year before that he came here to visit. I took him out in my Jeep to my best squirrel grove and set him in a folding chair. I came back a couple hours later and he had 3 nice gray squirrels.

When my Grandad was old and frail we use to take him out to a good spot and set him up in a makeshift brush-blind. Then we'd all circle around and drive deer towards him. Wild deer, on National Forest land. If he could see 'em he'd kill one.

I have a good friend who's in a wheelchair, paralyzed from a logging accident. He's also my FFL dealer. I helped build him a Polaris 4-wheeler with handicap controls. He has a couple buddies that go with him on their 4-wheelers and he usually gets a deer every year. He would never consider a canned hunt, even if he could afford it.

My neighbor's Grandad can't climb his treestands any more, so his son lifts him up there with his frontloader on his tractor. He couldn't afford a canned hunt either, and if you ever suggested it to him he'd probably take a swing at you with his cane.

I guess I'm just old and stubborn like he is. My bad leg doesn't stop me from going out every day of deer season, from dawn to dusk. I might need a 4-wheeler someday, but not as long as I can still hobble.

It's a just matter of pride, honor, and a respect for hunting as an art and a tradition.

[Hoodoo]

Well jeez Boogey, if you say it's wrong, it's wrong. Heck, have him put in Jail if he doesn't close his hunting operation down and keep his ignorant mouth shut.

[Hoodoo]

Well Boogey, i dunno where your information camr from that he's a liar, not saying he's not I just would want to know it's factual before agreeing. I don't really care a whit one way or another about Nugent oor what he says or does as it's not affecting me one way or another. Why are you so hung up on this guy anyway?

[Boogyman]

Well Boogey, i dunno where your information camr from that he's a liar, not saying he's not I just would want to know it's factual before agreeing.
I already stated that. I saw him with my own eyes, drinking whiskey and smoking pot. You know as well as I do can't prove that to you. If you don't believe me then fine, I don't care. You can either take my word for it or not. I hope you won't sink to the ignorant level of calling me a liar, but that's your problem, not mine.
I don't really care a whit one way or another about Nugent oor what he says or does as it's not affecting me one way or another. Why are you so hung up on this guy anyway?
If you don't care, why are you posting here?

Look. I've already made it clear what I have against Ted Nugent, he's an embarassment and a detriment to the sport of hunting and gun owners and the NRA should be condemning him, not electing him to it's board of director's just for his celebrity status.

What do you want from me, Hoodoo? That's my opinion, you have yours, we disagree, what's the problem?

[deguello]

I already stated that. I saw him with my own eyes, drinking whiskey and smoking pot. You know as well as I do can't prove that to you. If you don't believe me then fine, I don't care. You can either take my word for it or not. I hope you won't sink to the ignorant level of calling me a liar, but that's your problem, not mine.

If you don't care, why are you posting here?

Look. I've already made it clear what I have against Ted Nugent, he's an embarassment and a detriment to the sport of hunting and gun owners and the NRA should be condemning him, not electing him to it's board of director's just for his celebrity status.

What do you want from me, Hoodoo? That's my opinion, you have yours, we disagree, what's the problem?
The problem with Nugent is not that he allegedly dodged the draft, or ignored his out of wedlock child,(by the way, where is the famous liberal compassion and forgiveness for bad youthfulbehavior),or his alleged canned hunts. No, the real problem Boogy has with him is that Nugent is an effective,spokesman for legal gun ownership,and other conservative policies, therefore, he must be defamed,insulted, and read out of polite society.This way you don't have to bother with his ideas.Deguello

[plinky]

No, the real problem Boogy has with him is that Nugent is an effective,spokesman for legal gun ownership,and other conservative policies, therefore, he must be defamed,insulted, and read out of polite society.
To say that you`re full of it would be the understatement of the century.
Check the phone directory for "discarded f*ckwad" you gonna find your number....:D

[freesw]

This way you don't have to bother with his ideas

You might as well be talking about yourself, there, given that you haven't responded to what was written at all, but only to your preconceived notions, which sound like they're right out of talk radio.

[Boogyman]

the real problem Boogy has with him is that Nugent is an effective,spokesman for legal gun ownership,and other conservative policies,
You want an ass like Nugent represent you and your "policies", knock yourself out. Says a lot about your character.

As far as being a spokesman for gun ownership, he's the worst thing to ever happen to gun rights. All the anti-gunners have to do is point at Ted Nugent and say: "See? That's why guns should be illegal".
therefore, he must be defamed,insulted, and read out of polite society.
Sorry, your confusing me with the likes of Karl Rove and his despicable tactics. Figures you would accuse others of what you are guilty of yourself.
This way you don't have to bother with his ideas.Deguello
Ha! Look who's talking! Do you even have any ideas of your own or is it all you can do is mouth the party line?

Bushies. Same old sh*t as always.

[Boogyman]

No, the real problem Boogy has with him is that Nugent is an effective,spokesman for legal gun ownership,and other conservative policies, therefore, he must be defamed,insulted, and read out of polite society.
To say that you`re full of it would be the understatement of the century.
Check the phone directory for "discarded f*ckwad" you gonna find your number....:D

Plinky, I couldn't have said it better myself.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Boogyman]

You might as well be talking about yourself, there, given that you haven't responded to what was written at all, but only to your preconceived notions, which sound like they're right out of talk radio.
FreeSW, I think you got it right. Deguello is really Bill O'Reilly in disguise... :lol: :lol: :lol:

[deguello]

You want an ass like Nugent represent you and your "policies", knock yourself out. Says a lot about your character.

As far as being a spokesman for gun ownership, he's the worst thing to ever happen to gun rights. All the anti-gunners have to do is point at Ted Nugent and say: "See? That's why guns should be illegal".

Sorry, your confusing me with the likes of Karl Rove and his despicable tactics. Figures you would accuse others of what you are guilty of yourself.

Ha! Look who's talking! Do you even have any ideas of your own or is it all you can do is mouth the party line?

Bushies. Same old sh*t as always.
Boogy, I would never confuse you with Karl Rove, the comparison would be unfair to him in both moral and intellectual terms. You're more like a poor man's version of Michael Moore,hopefully without the weight,but withthe same,american hating fanaticism.By the way, why are you so upset at Nugent's drinking and pot smoking?Sounds like the same behavior patterns of Clinton and Kennedy sans the rape and manslaughter. As for Nugent covering himself with feces, as a good liberal you should applaud this as a work of performance art,and get Nugent a grant from the NEH. Deguello

[freesw]

... Sounds like the same behavior patterns of Clinton and Kennedy sans the rape and manslaughter. As for Nugent covering himself with feces, as a good liberal you should applaud this as a work of performance art,and get Nugent a grant from the NEH. Deguello

"No Quarter, Anti-Midas,
The thread he touches,
To the dump it rushes"

[deguello]

You might as well be talking about yourself, there, given that you haven't responded to what was written at all, but only to your preconceived notions, which sound like they're right out of talk radio.
Assuming what Boogy says is true,and given his propensity for half truths, distortions and smears,it might not be,Nugent is heads and shoulders above the leftist hollywood celebrities whose sordid pasts,sucking up to leftist dictators, and hypocrisy, you or Boogy would never point out because they share your leftist politics.Thanks for the compliment that's how I regard your pathetic crack about my getting my opinions from talk radio.Far better to listen to Talk radio, than to spew obsolete recycled marxist bilge from the dying lying liberal media.Don't you realize that the majority of people on this board probably listen to Rush Limbaugh,which means your intended insult is a dud.Keep trying SW, I lov it when leftists expose their hatred. Deguello

[Boogyman]

Boogy, I would never confuse you with Karl Rove, the comparison would be unfair to him in both moral and intellectual terms.
Yep, just as I figured, a Karl Rove fan. And a Ann Coulter fan, and a Bill O'rielly fan. And I bet you love Dick Cheney too.

This explains all the hatred and insults that spew forth from your keyboard.

And the continuous references to Clinton and Kennedy and Moore and Gore and other long gone liberals.

All you know is what's been fed to you by your heroes (and heroines) with the neo-con doctrine.

That makes you predictable, at any rate. I know not to expect intelligent, respectful debate from you.

[freesw]

Don't you realize that the majority of people on this board probably listen to Rush Limbaugh,which means your intended insult is a dud.Keep trying SW

You may be right, you may not be, but it doesn't matter, because I don't post to try to win any popularity contest; I post what I believe to be important and true.

I lov it when leftists expose their hatred. Deguello

Who's posting hatred?

[deguello]

To say that you`re full of it would be the understatement of the century.
Check the phone directory for "discarded f*ckwad" you gonna find your number....:D
A Plinky,such rhetorical brilliance!I looked, but couldn't find myself in the yellow pages under your terminology. I did look up and find you however,in theDSM IV, a manual used to list psychological disturbances,where you were described as being "language impaired" and of" borderline intelligence". I'd send you a dictionaryto help you with the former problem, but given of the latter condition, it wouldn't do much good. Deguello

[deguello]

Yep, just as I figured, a Karl Rove fan. And a Ann Coulter fan, and a Bill O'rielly fan. And I bet you love Dick Cheney too.

This explains all the hatred and insults that spew forth from your keyboard.

And the continuous references to Clinton and Kennedy and Moore and Gore and other long gone liberals.

All you know is what's been fed to you by your heroes (and heroines) with the neo-con doctrine.

That makes you predictable, at any rate. I know not to expect intelligent, respectful debate from you.
Actually, I'm not a Rove fan,too liberal for me . As for the others, thanks for associating me with the best minds in America, who amuse and enlighten us tearing to pieces, hate filed idea deprived, leftist morons. Deguello By the way

[Boogyman]

Assuming what Boogy says is true,and given his propensity for half truths, distortions and smears,it might not be,Nugent is heads and shoulders above the leftist hollywood celebrities whose sordid pasts,sucking up to leftist dictators, and hypocrisy, you or Boogy would never point out because they share your leftist politics.Thanks for the compliment that's how I regard your pathetic crack about my getting my opinions from talk radio.Far better to listen to Talk radio, than to spew obsolete recycled marxist bilge from the dying lying liberal media.Don't you realize that the majority of people on this board probably listen to Rush Limbaugh,which means your intended insult is a dud.Keep trying SW, I lov it when leftists expose their hatred. Deguello
There was no hatred in FreeSW's post.

Yours, however, is full of it.

And you can't help it, can you? Always bringing up my name even when your talking to someone else.

You really are totally obsessed with me, Deguello. I'm so deep in your psyche now that you probably lay in bed sleepless, fuming about what the Boogyman said.

Can't wait to get back on the board and spew some more hate and insults, huh?

Nighty-night, Deguello....

[deguello]

FreeSW, I think you got it right. Deguello is really Bill O'Reilly in disguise... :lol: :lol: :lol:
No. Wrong again Boogy, too liberal for me, though a very admirable, and patritic man. Deguello

[deguello]

You may be right, you may not be, but it doesn't matter, because I don't post to try to win any popularity contest; I post what I believe to be important and true.



Who's posting hatred?
No one said you are trying to win a popularity contest, but it's clear that you are trying to persuade people to acept your view.That's fine, but you will not suceed if you demonize people they respect . As for hatred,I leave it to the reader to decide whether obscenity, and demonization rises to the level of hatred. Deguello

[freesw]

[O'Reilly] a very admirable, and patritic man. Deguello

Glad you think so, Deguello
http://mediamatters.org/items/200602220007
During the February 20 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, Bill O'Reilly suggested that the United States "hand over everything to the Iraqis as fast as humanly possible" because "[t]here are so many nuts in the country -- so many crazies -- that we can't control them." O'Reilly then claimed that the "big mistake" was actually "the crazy-people underestimation."

As Media Matters for America has documented, during a November 30, 2005, appearance on NBC's Today, O'Reilly called those advocating immediate withdrawal from Iraq "pinheads" and compared them to Hitler appeasers.

O'Reilly's comments followed his mention of a report regarding Karbala, a province in the Shiite-controlled Iraqi south. O'Reilly falsely claimed that "the mayor of Karbala ... has banned any further government dealings with the American military in his province." In fact, according to a February 20 Associated Press report, the Karbala governing council suspended contact with U.S. forces "until U.S. forces apologize" for their behavior during a recent visit to the governor's office. The Karbala provincial spokesman complained that "U.S. soldiers brought dogs inside the [governor's office] building," which was "considered an insult by the council," and "blocked roads leading to the governor's office, preventing council members and the governor from parking cars outside the building." While the AP reported the Karbala spokesman's specific complaints, O'Reilly characterized the complaints as "the mayor of Karbala" alleging that U.S. soldiers were "not behaving well."

From the February 20 broadcast of Westwood One's The Radio Factor with Bill O'Reilly:

O'REILLY: Somewhat of a disturbing report out of Iraq, and it's more important than it first appears. The governor of -- or the mayor of Karbala, which is a town in the south part of Iraq, Shiite-controlled, has banned any further government dealings with the American military in his province, saying that they're not behaving well.

Now, it's a small little thing, but I picked up on it, because here is the essential problem in Iraq. There are so many nuts in the country -- so many crazies -- that we can't control them. And I don't -- we're never gonna be able to control them. So the only solution to this is to hand over everything to the Iraqis as fast as humanly possible. Because we just can't control these crazy people. This is all over the place. And that was the big mistake about America: They didn't -- it was the crazy-people underestimation. We did not know how to deal with them -- still don't. But they're just all over the place.

------------

So, a Coulter fan, huh? How 'bout a little Coulter, then:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200607050007

Wed, Jul 5, 2006 4:42pm EST

What would Coulter have to say for the networks to stop promoting her?

Republican hatemonger Ann Coulter has continued her attack on the media, including making a recent statement where she reaffirmed her wish that Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh had bombed The New York Times' building.

There seems to be no low to which Coulter won't sink in her pursuit of airtime. She recently apparently endorsed the murder of Rep. John P. Murtha (D-PA) and suggested that Democratic support of a recent Supreme Court decision is "siding with Al Qaeda." Coulter's musings about violence against her perceived enemies are nothing new; she once suggested that former President Clinton be assassinated.

You might think that the media would distance themselves from such advocacy of political murder. But you'd be wrong: Coulter continues to be invited on a wide range of television programs, including on MSNBC and NBC.

Is there nothing she could say they would find inappropriate? Please contact MSNBC TV and NBC News and ask them what she would have to say for them to refuse her future airtime. Are they willing to commit to not hosting her again?

Coulter isn't the only conservative whose hate speech the have networks repeatedly given airtime. Melanie Morgan, a frequent MSNBC guest, has accused The New York Times of "treason" for recent reporting and suggested that its executive editor deserved "the gas chamber."

What would it take for MSNBC TV and NBC News to say, "No more"?

--------

Every Republican running for office this fall should be asked, "Are you an Ann Coulter Republican," until the question is answered yes or no, forcing each and every one of them to take a position on her vile hatemongering.

[freesw]

No one said you are trying to win a popularity contest, but it's clear that you are trying to persuade people to acept your view.That's fine, but you will not suceed if you demonize people they respect . As for hatred,I leave it to the reader to decide whether obscenity, and demonization rises to the level of hatred. Deguello

Who am I demonizing? Where's the obscenity you refer to?

I'm asking you serious questions on this and other threads, and your answers are evasive at best, Deguello.

[plinky]

A Plinky,such rhetorical brilliance!I looked, but couldn't find myself in the yellow pages under your terminology. I did look up and find you however,in theDSM IV, a manual used to list psychological disturbances,where you were described as being "language impaired" and of" borderline intelligence". I'd send you a dictionaryto help you with the former problem, but given of the latter condition, it wouldn't do much good. Deguello

I`m impressed...It took you only 6 hours to come up with a response...that makes you exactly 6 times as smart as I thought you would be... :lol:...Now pull your head out of your ass would ya? You`re not even mildly entertaining yet...:D

[hunter385]

boogy I want to know where you got the information that Nugent smeared himself in his feces to avoid the draft. I have been looking all over the internet and cant find a single thing backing that up. As for your seeing him drinking and smoking dope that is fine, I could say that I saw this person or that person doing this and that, who would know if it is true or not! It seems to me that you seem to be against anyone that is on the RIGHT side of the fence, that is fine, you are entitled to whatever political views you have. But where is your proof for your argument? IMO, I think Ted Nugent is a good strong voice for not only our hunting rights but also for our gun rights. I will never deny that he is a little " off his rocker", but I still cant fault the guy without knowing where you are getting your info. I mean no offense to you, like I said you have your opinion of politics that strongly differ from mine. Please provide a source for your argument against this man.

[Boogyman]

boogy I want to know where you got the information that Nugent smeared himself in his feces to avoid the draft. I have been looking all over the internet and cant find a single thing backing that up. As for your seeing him drinking and smoking dope that is fine, I could say that I saw this person or that person doing this and that, who would know if it is true or not! It seems to me that you seem to be against anyone that is on the RIGHT side of the fence, that is fine, you are entitled to whatever political views you have. But where is your proof for your argument? IMO, I think Ted Nugent is a good strong voice for not only our hunting rights but also for our gun rights. I will never deny that he is a little " off his rocker", but I still cant fault the guy without knowing where you are getting your info. I mean no offense to you, like I said you have your opinion of politics that strongly differ from mine. Please provide a source for your argument against this man.
Why? Is it going to change your mind?

You've already stated you don't know if what I said I saw was true or not. So why should I waste my time dragging up evidence that you're just gonna dispute and nitpick about anyway? :wacko:

I saw what I saw. If you think I'm lying then the hell with you.

I don't care if you want to worship Nugent as your savior, he's a lying, poser jackass in my book. You don't like it, tough cookies! :o

There's 3 pages

[Boogyman]

Now it's your turn to come back with: "Just as I thought, you can't prove it so you're backing out."

Y'know what?

I DON'T CARE!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[gossman]

Now it's your turn to come back with: "Just as I thought, you can't prove it so you're backing out."

Y'know what?

I DON'T CARE!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Hey, I got grabbed by the headline, read the last several arguments and have decided that I lost valuable time from my life that I will never make up. So this most likely means I don't care either.:o

[markw76]

Geronimo!

[hunter385]

Dragging up all the facts that you state may make me change my mind. If you cant take the time to change someones mind or make them, see the light. Then why dont you stop posting false statements about someone? I am a fairly new to this site, I am not here to make enemies, I am here to share my love of firearms and the freedom we share in this country with other like minded individuals. I dont care that you are to the left on a lot of issues, that is what makes this country great, if everyone thought the same it would scare the hell out of me. But reading your posts, I guess biased would be a word that pops in my mind on this subject. I asked a simple question, a simple response would have been fine, you know like hey check out this website you will find all you need here. I think you do care, you like to bait people so you can come back with some rude response and sit there and feel high and mighty, and think about how smart you are and how dumb and lost everyone else is. What is the deal with the little cave man sitting there holding a sign telling me what my IP address I am on and what system I am running. Is that another way you make yourself feel smart, is it supposed to scare people? Or does that little man holding that big sign represent yourself, stating something that is way too far over your head to be able to read and comprehend what it means?

[Boogyman]

Dragging up all the facts that you state may make me change my mind. If you cant take the time to change someones mind or make them, see the light. Then why dont you stop posting false statements about someone? I am a fairly new to this site, I am not here to make enemies, I am here to share my love of firearms and the freedom we share in this country with other like minded individuals. I dont care that you are to the left on a lot of issues, that is what makes this country great, if everyone thought the same it would scare the hell out of me. But reading your posts, I guess biased would be a word that pops in my mind on this subject. I asked a simple question, a simple response would have been fine, you know like hey check out this website you will find all you need here. I think you do care, you like to bait people so you can come back with some rude response and sit there and feel high and mighty, and think about how smart you are and how dumb and lost everyone else is. What is the deal with the little cave man sitting there holding a sign telling me what my IP address I am on and what system I am running. Is that another way you make yourself feel smart, is it supposed to scare people? Or does that little man holding that big sign represent yourself, stating something that is way too far over your head to be able to read and comprehend what it means?
HAW HAW HAW! Man, you are really quite the headcase, aren't you? :lol:

You come in here on your sixth post, drag up a 4-month old thread just to start some crap with me, and by defending Ted Nugent of all people! :wacko:

Yeah, welcome to the board, buddy! Yep, that little guy with the sign is actually ME, I'm the mean old Boogyman here to make your life miserable! You've got me all figured out already, after just one post! I threaten your fragile psyche in so many ways I don't know where to start! Wow, so many insecurites, and so little time... :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Boogyman]

I know this isn't really about Ted Nugent, you justwanted to start sh*t with me.

But just for the hell of it, I put "Ted Nugent Draft" in my search engine, and got a bunch of stuff right away. I guess you didn't reall search very hard did you?

Anyway, just for you I'll post some of this stuff so you can prove my point by calling it all "unsubstsantiated lies". What a waste of time... :rolleyes:

"Q: Ted Nugent Served in Vietnam? A: False. For all his right wing rhetoric and tough talk during the Gulf War, Terrible Ted was a yellow-livered draft dodger. In fact Ted went to great lengths to fail his army physical. He fasted for a week and drank pot after pot of coffee to drive up his blood pressure. He didn't bathe for weeks and showed up with a turd in his pants and another in his hair. Uncle Sam found Ted unfit for military service. Wouldn't have been a cryin' shame if that incredibly talented rocker had died in battle? I think Ted knew that the future of rock depended on him and Vietnam was just too big a risk to take."

[Boogyman]

Link for above: http://www.havocrex.com/press/article/1/15

(Edit function is disabled in here)

[Boogyman]

"Ted Nugent - who dodged the draft by crapping in his pants for a week before showing up at the induction office. "

[Boogyman]

http://marc.perkel.com/archives/000411.html

[Boogyman]

"There’s always Ted Nugent. Ted Nugent, for those who do not know, is the loud adolescent faded rock-star who now holds forth on right-wing radio. He is all blood and guts, tough talk and feisty belligerence. He likes to accuse everyone else of being a weak-knee'd “pastrami-breath" liberal, and a cut-and-run chicken.

What his fans do not know is that Ted himself was a Vietnam draft dodger who got himself cut loose from service by showing up for his physical covered in his own feces and after not showering in weeks. He had a child out of wedlock and only ponied up support when the court forced him to. Real family values. A Great American.

But never mind that. He’s a hunter, right?

Well maybe not.

It turns out that Ted Nugent is not just a sunshine patriot, he is also a canned hunter. In fact, Ted runs his own canned hunt facility in Michigan called Sunrize Acres where, for a hefty fee, you can shoot tame buffalo that have been trucked to his 340-acre spread.

Along with buffalo, Ted's farm is a pay-shoot for whitetail deer ($2,000 for a doe!), wild boar, “exotic ram” (that would be farm goats for you who are wondering), and Sika and Fallow deer.

These are not wild animals -- they are trucked-in farm stock. The bison are no better than glorified farm cows, the Russian boar are no better than glorified farm pigs, the "exotic rams" are just farm goats, and the deer are corn-fed dependents.

Cartoon buffoons like Ted Nugent and his canned hunt farm are, I am sad to say, the loud and ugly public face of hunting in America today."

[Boogyman]

http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2006/08/hunting-and-fishing-like-adults_18.html

[Boogyman]

Name: Ted Nugent
Born: 1948
Employer: confused teenage boys?
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: The image says it all - all image: our hero stands in combat attire, equipped with not just one, but two phallic symbols. Do we detect a hint of insecurity regarding manhood here? Standing in front of a band of cartoon brothers, he rests his boot on Saddam Hussein’s posterior. And yes, that flag is mounted on a spear. And yes, there is blood dripping from the tip of the spear. Mr. Nugent claims to be drug free, but if anyone has ever everdosed on bloodthirsty jingoism, it’s him. Born in 1948, there’s no way this bad boy would have missed a chance to kill for his country, right?

According to a widely-circulated account which we’ve never seen refuted, here’s how Mr. Nugent dodged the draft. "He claims that 30 days before his draft board physical, he stopped all forms of personal hygiene. The last 10 days, he ingested nothing but Vienna sausages and Pepsi; and a week before his physical, he stopped using bathrooms altogether, virtually living inside pants caked with his own excrement, stained by his urine. That spectacle won Nugent a deferment, he says. ‘... but if I would have gone over there, I'd have been killed, or I'd have killed, or I'd killed all the hippies in the foxholes...I would have killed everybody.’” -- Detroit Free Press Magazine, July 15, 1990
Our thanks to “a bitter Gulf War veteran” for the straight dope on this straight dope.

[Boogyman]

This is a good one... it has a whole list of chickenhawk, draft-dodging war-mongers...

http://www.jkamalicnews.com/

[hunter385]

Boogyman, thanks for taking the time to point these facts out to me, I really do appreciate it. I dont care about starting anything with you, you attacked me when I asked a question so in return, (childish yes) I attacked you. For that I am sorry, and I am sorry after reading in the detroit free press article that Ted Nugent himself explained how he got away from serving his country. You were right you submitted your proof, and I applaud you for that. I havent served my country, I tried but due to a surgery I had in high school, I was unable to pass any physical evaluation required to serve in any branch of the military. Being as I havent served I havent earned the right to bash someone on dodging the draft, so I cant rant about that as far as Nugent is concerned. But I can however see his hypocrisy, and see that it would take a very disturbed individual to not only wallow in his own feces but rub it in his hair. As for him doing drugs, I dont think after reading what I read that that would be very far from anything but the truth. I am going to bury this hatchet now Boogy, and I appologize for attacking you. Sometimes my youth and my temper get the better of me, being young and full of **** and vinegar is ok as long as you can listen to the old guys when they show you that you are on your way to replacing that **** and vinegar with a bunch of BS.

[Boogyman]

Boogyman, thanks for taking the time to point these facts out to me, I really do appreciate it. I dont care about starting anything with you, you attacked me when I asked a question so in return, (childish yes) I attacked you. For that I am sorry, and I am sorry after reading in the detroit free press article that Ted Nugent himself explained how he got away from serving his country. You were right you submitted your proof, and I applaud you for that. I havent served my country, I tried but due to a surgery I had in high school, I was unable to pass any physical evaluation required to serve in any branch of the military. Being as I havent served I havent earned the right to bash someone on dodging the draft, so I cant rant about that as far as Nugent is concerned. But I can however see his hypocrisy, and see that it would take a very disturbed individual to not only wallow in his own feces but rub it in his hair. As for him doing drugs, I dont think after reading what I read that that would be very far from anything but the truth. I am going to bury this hatchet now Boogy, and I appologize for attacking you. Sometimes my youth and my temper get the better of me, being young and full of **** and vinegar is ok as long as you can listen to the old guys when they show you that you are on your way to replacing that **** and vinegar with a bunch of BS.
Well, what a pleasant suprise!

Not only do I respectfully accept your apology, but I must humbly offer you my own, for being too quick to judge you.

You see, beng the high-profile loud-mouth that I am on this board, I attract a lot of right-wingers who wanna jump my sh*t right off the bat. I swear some of them come looking for me from other boards just to take a shot at me. Usually the last thing they are interested in is actual facts, and they will use any excuse/topic to start the crap flying.

I had figured you for one of these guys, and I was wrong. I let my cynicism get in the way of fairness, and for that I apologize. And thanks for reminding me how important it is to keep an open mind, and to have more faith in people.

Welcome to the board, Hunter... ;)

[hunter385]

Appology excepted. Like I said before I am not here to make enemies, I do enjoy a good heated debate every once in a while though. It does get to you after a while having people constantly attack you just because your beliefs dont fall directly within their own. Even when facts are presented some of them are too brainwashed to admit to the fact that what they believed could be wrong. It is like the people that see a representative on TV and figure "well he has an R by his name so by god he must be a good feller". I think alot of the problems we have in this country are due to people doing just that, blindly giving someone their vote based on what party they represent.

[Mooky]

Personally, I much prefer Led Zeppelin as the best music from that era.

And I won't pay big bucks for a game farm hunt, so many times I come home tired, cold and.....empty handed but also happy. Not this year though hehehehehehehe.....

[hunter385]

you a duck hunter mooky? I have heard from a little bird that the duck hunting out there in the valley is kicking ass this year. My buddy lives up in red bluff and has supposedly been spanking the birds left and right on the river. Meanwhile I am stuck back here in Indiana with no damn place to hunt ducks that compares to California. I never thought I would say it but I actually miss hunting at gray lodge, the good old sac valley refuge ghetto.

[Mooky]

you a duck hunter mooky? I have heard from a little bird that the duck hunting out there in the valley is kicking ass this year. My buddy lives up in red bluff and has supposedly been spanking the birds left and right on the river. Meanwhile I am stuck back here in Indiana with no damn place to hunt ducks that compares to California. I never thought I would say it but I actually miss hunting at gray lodge, the good old sac valley refuge ghetto.


Funny you mention that cuz people are SLAYING the ducks this year. I have been duck hunting exactly 4 times in my life, and each time it was clear blue skies and warm temps. So my (lifetime) duck tally is ONE. I hunt pheasant a lot (good year this year) and whitetail. I am gonna hit the blinds again when the wet weather returns and try to fix this.

[hunter385]

dude you need to get off the pheasant hunting kick and get onto the ducks. California was the number one state last year for waterfowl harvested. You are right in the thick of it in chico, you got the river there to hunt and a crap load of wildlife refuges close by. Go to little dry creek and do the draw the night before I think it starts at 8, and then go back in the morning and if you dont get drawn there go to gray lodge you can always get on at gray lodge. Pray for the super wet weather to stay away, cold is good but alot of rain isnt. As long as it is cold up north, the ducks will keep coming, and with little rain there arent as many options available for them. Have you ever been up in like Paradise and come down the hill during a year with alot of rain? If you have you would notice all the water here ther and everywhere. That gives those wily ducks abundant places to go and hide when the pressure is on. When there isnt any water like you have now, the hunting rocks. the year I left which was the 04-05 season, I remember looking out my back deck up in grass valley and the valley was just shining from all the water we had, and the hunting friggin sucked hind tit. Sorry I talk about duck hunting and I just go go go. Hey where do you go to hunt whitetails?

[Mooky]

Ya, definitely need to pick up on the duck hunting (most of my friends are very good callers as well). I just got finished restoring a vintage LC SMith side by side that was my grandfathers and can't wait to shoot it. I hunt whitetail mostly around Lassen and quite a bit in Plumas county. I am a major dirt biker and am constantly doing recon while riding forhunting/fishing spots. If you are a fly fisherman, I would imagine you miss the trout streams here as well. And the river, got 7 King salmon this year and a bunch of steelhead. The smoker was smokin in '06.

[hunter385]

yeah i miss the fishing out there, I never really got into the combat fishing on the river though. I was mostly a lake fisherman or a mountain stream fisherman. I used to go up to Whiskeytown and catch kokanee alot, my favorite trip of the year was going up to little grass valley res and catching browns, I miss the hell out of doing that. Are you sure you are after whitetails out there I am pretty sure there arent any in california. Lots of blacktails around chico, and a ton of mule deer up in the lassen area. I couldbe wrong though, but I lived in CA my whole life and have never heard of whitetails out there.

[Mooky]

Ya there is whitetail. Lots of Mules too. I just wish we had some Elk (my favorite). When you said combat fishing you HAD to be referrring to the outlet area of the Feather River. That place is NUTS! I do my salmon fishing from a boat on the Sac, so pretty easy to find some space. And mountain stream fishing for trout is my favorite. I live in Cal Park, so have that private lake for bass fishing which is pretty fun (and convenient).

[Rugermann]

Well, Boogey I do agree with you on most of what ya say about Ted Nugent.
I personally will not go on any "canned" hunts, but again you must remember it is legal.
The term "canned hunt" is quite ambiguous really. I have went to South Dakota and Colorado on pheasant and chukar partridge hunts where the female birds are raised and released to the wild. The male birds then breed the females and the population then continues. All of the male birds are wild from the get-go. So , is that a "canned hunt"??? Maybe or maybe not.
Depends on one's perspective.
As for gun rights, Ted Nugent is VERY PRO-GUN and very PRO AMERICAN SOVERIEGNTY!!! He is very anti UN (as are many patriot Americans) and I respect him for that.
I suspect you are against anyone who is a right-winger. Is that the case???
Also , will you vote for Hillary Clinton if she gets the Democratic nomination and runs for President???

Just wondering,
Jeff

Cause if she gets in the Oval Office, I GUARANTEE you that your
gun rights and US Soveriegnty will suffer GREATLY.

[Boogyman]

the female birds are raised and released to the wild. The male birds then breed the females and the population then continues. All of the male birds are wild from the get-go. So , is that a "canned hunt"???
I wouldn't consider that a "canned hunt" at all. That's just releasing breeding stock into the wild to keep the population healthy. You're still hunting wild game in a sporting spirit, not just shooting caged birds that are planted, or even thrown into the air to shoot. Big difference.
As for gun rights, Ted Nugent is VERY PRO-GUN and very PRO AMERICAN SOVERIEGNTY!!! He is very anti UN (as are many patriot Americans) and I respect him for that.
I disagree, I think he is a poor representative for gun owners, because of his big mouth and idiotic, inflammatory bullcrap. Anti-gunners love to point at Nugent and say "See? Is that the kind of jackass you want running around with guns?" He's a buffoon that makes us all look bad.
I suspect you are against anyone who is a right-winger. Is that the case???
Nope. I respect anyone's political views as long as they respect mine. Except for Neo-Con, Chicken-hawk idealogues, because they have no respect for anything except power and money.
Also , will you vote for Hillary Clinton if she gets the Democratic nomination and runs for President???
Who I vote for is a NUNYA. But just cuz you're "wondering", I'm not a Hillary fan. My favorites are Bill Richardson, a pro-gun Democrat who is the Governor of New Mexico, or Colin Powell, who isn't running but I wish/hope that he would. I used to like McCain, but he's been flopping all over the place lately, although I do respect the man.

As far as after the primaries, it's foolish to speculate this early in the game, don't you think?

[Mooky]

Well Boogy I have an interesting story relating to your Nugent rant here. As I have stated, I am against canned hunts, and come home empty handed fairly often (not with pheasant though, got that one down). I have a good friend that travelsto Colorado every fall and inevitably fills 2 tags every time (bull and cow). Now I LOVE elk, and he has asked me to join him several times but I refuse. Too much $$$ for my blood, and I wondered how it could be soeasy for him. He finally told me. The hunters all set up on a bluff and sight in, while the "ranch hands" spook the lead elk cow out of a pen, and the rest of the herd follows. So all the hunters just wait for the whistle then shoot the animal they pick, without even having to sit up. Good lord, what a "hunt". And pricy too.

On the other hand, the successful elk hunts I have had happened in Idaho at the base of the Tetons. We have property there, and spend time each year. When elk season opens, all of the REAL cowboys bring rifles and spotting scopes with them while they work the herds. If the glass some animals in the mountains, they quickly grab horses and start the stalk. I have been invited to join, and most of the time we scored one or more. The difference is these are WILD elk, and it is only the skills of these guys that have done this all their lives that result in such success. I know (humbly) that on my own, my bag would mostly be empty.

[Boogyman]

Yeah I hear ya, Mooky.

I've been Elk hunting a few times up in the South Park area in the mountains southwest of Denver. Just a few guys on the weekend thing. The first time we hunted and hiked for two days, only saw a few in the far distance. Second time two of us filled our cow tags... and I found out just how goddamn BIG and Elk is when you have to hump it out on pack frames. :o Good thing we both made our kills on Saturday morning, because it was dark on Sunday night when we got the last of the meat out. Thankfully we didn't have a couple of huge racks to haul! :lol:

I don't care if I hit the lotto.... I still wouldn't buy a damn canned hunt. The fun we had those weekends, and on every hunt I've ever been on, is beyond monetary value. Ladybug and I live in the middle of Whitetail Heaven, and we are fortunate to fill our tags every year. The meat in our freezer tastes way better than the priciest filet mignon, because it was taken with skill, hard work, and a sportsman's heart. ;)

[Mooky]

Yeah I hear ya, Mooky.

I've been Elk hunting a few times up in the South Park area in the mountains southwest of Denver. Just a few guys on the weekend thing. The first time we hunted and hiked for two days, only saw a few in the far distance. Second time two of us filled our cow tags... and I found out just how goddamn BIG and Elk is when you have to hump it out on pack frames. :o Good thing we both made our kills on Saturday morning, because it was dark on Sunday night when we got the last of the meat out. Thankfully we didn't have a couple of huge racks to haul! :lol:

I don't care if I hit the lotto.... I still wouldn't buy a damn canned hunt. The fun we had those weekends, and on every hunt I've ever been on, is beyond monetary value. Ladybug and I live in the middle of Whitetail Heaven, and we are fortunate to fill our tags every year. The meat in our freezer tastes way better than the priciest filet mignon, because it was taken with skill, hard work, and a sportsman's heart. ;)


I am not a "horse guy", but damn those horses are really handy for hauling out big elk in one trip. And I agree, I always tellmy sons the least favorite part of my hunting is actually the kill. I love the stalk, the camping, the camraderie, the kill is just the end (but I LOVE my homemade elk jerky!). My middle son said he doesnot think he wants to hunt/kill, and I told him thats okay, its a personal decision for anyone. My oldest really wants to tag a buck next year. I told the middle son I hope you still come with us to help glass elk and run the camp, he thought that was a cool idea.......

[Krustypuff]

So we understand can hunts are not fair chase and i can not say that i would like to hunt a deer or boar or what ever that is on a small piece of land and farm raised. But i see the other side of the coin as well. I went to the sportsman show last week and there were some outfits that for $20k would guarentee a b&c deer that would score 400 points. now if you want to drop 20k to get a record that is your choice, but i would rather stalk it in the wild and get back to my caveman for fathers roots lol. But here again guys if it not illegall and you dont like it do do it turn the station or waht not.

As for PETA doesn't that stand for PEOPLE EATING TASTY ANIMALS????

[Rob E^2]

My first time stepping into this section, "debate for dummies" and I am not surprised to see the list of names that started these threads. This would be a good source for names to put on our ignore lists right upfront to avoid the mindless drivel of internet trolls.

Arguing online is like running in the special olympics; it doesn't matter who wins or loses -- you're still retards!

heh heh

[Xnav80]

I really don't see anything the matter with "canned hunts". I'm currently living in Illinois, and let me tell you, our Gov. has messed up habitat big time. He's even using the money we pay to the dnr for our licences to fuel up his private jet to get from Springfield to Chicago. But I digress. I grew up pheasant hunting. I love it, love watching the dogs work, and not to mention the taste of the bird. Illinois bird numbers have about hit rock bottom. Canned hunting for pheasants is a great way to teach a young dog what the heck they're supposed to be doing. And of couse, younger hunters benefit from these programs as well. There is no season, but a hunting licence is always required. These are not wild birds, but they're not domestic either. They will run when they're planted and not every bird planted is harvested. So, that also helps repopulate the surrounding areas. Contrary to the rumors, no the birds wings aren't clipped. As far the Uncle Ted goes, the past is in the past. Alot of good people today did dumb stuff back in the 60's. I like his music and his stance on alot of today's issues. He's been to the middle east a couple times supporting our troops. No, he's not P/C, and usually he does tend to take it over the top. I don't agree with everything he says, but sometimes, we need someone on our side that will fight tooth and nail, never giving an inch, until the last man for our rights, wether the rights being debated are for 1st or 2nd, or any other amendment. And hey, if i had $2k to burn to shoot a doe, get great meat, and hang out with the Nuge, i just might. People can do whatever they want with their money.

[proudamerican831]

XNAV80, My dad was a career Soldier. I was having trouble in high school typing, failing as I remember. He sat me down at the underwood and made me type for an hour straight. Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their party.
I left the class with a "B" Thank's for the reminder of a great memory.

[MichiganMadDog]

I say "Whack em, and stack em!" Hey, here in Michigan, all the hunting ranches are a joke. It's all canned hunts until you go out west to the big country.
Here's the thing - to a guy who lives in his office and dreams of being out there in the wild, goes out to one of these ranches, and bags a little buck, hey it's a dream come true. My stomping ground is the Manistee National Forest and I swear to you I couldn't get lost in there if I tried! The world is getting smaller every day! These ranches are how it's going to be. Our Elk hunts in MI are a joke also! What can you do.
At least you don't see the cage when they let the deer out anymore!!

[BlkHawk73]

I've got nothing agianst Mr Nugent but as for such "canned hunts"...well they're wrong and to me a but inhumane. Kinda like catching fish in a barrel. If you're so lazy to not be able to go out into the wild, find the game animal and make your way to it so that a clean ethcial shot can be made, maybe a new hobby is needed. Just another aspect of this culture that's gotten ppl to become lazy and want the easy way out.

[COBRADOC]

Just my observation, but before you crown Ted Nugent as the hero of PU and the gun friendly world, let me remind you that he went to unusual lengths to avoid military service during Vietnam. Personally, that makes him severely flawed in my book, and he isn't my definition of a hero.

[Butie]

Shooting an animal in a pen for pleasure is not what hunting is all about.

[MichiganMadDog]

My first time stepping into this section, "debate for dummies" and I am not surprised to see the list of names that started these threads. This would be a good source for names to put on our ignore lists right upfront to avoid the mindless drivel of internet trolls.

Arguing online is like running in the special olympics; it doesn't matter who wins or loses -- you're still retards!

heh heh

This coming from a guy in St. Augustine, FL
This debate has nothing to do with Special Olympics!
Don't talk about things you don't understand and mocking people who can't help the hand they've been given! What is your excuse?
I think the sun has fried your brain!

[MichiganMadDog]

To you guys who complain about the "Nuge" being bad for the sport, I say at least he is trying. He does get out there and appear wacko sometimes but he is using his position to try to help. What have you done to protect your gun and hunting rights? It's easy to complain but doing is something else!
NRA member?
As for the getting around the draft, I would like to see the facts on that.
I will say that anyone who dodged the draft and then acts like a commando with the troops should maybe reconcided the way he is presenting himself.
Maybe he feels guilt? I would like more info on the draft issue. <_<

[proudamerican831]

When I was in the service one of the worst tasks I ever had was to man a telephone for people calling in during the amnesty program. Proclamation 4313 by President Ford gave amnesty to individuals that met specific criteria. These folks ran when their Country called. My job during that time was to pass information on to people that wanted to turn themselves in and move on with their lives as Americans. To take advantage of all America has to offer. I wondered how many young men had to take the place of these cowards. These young men that stepped up when called and were killed because of the people that ran.
I got my draft card. My number was so high I would never had been called, so I joined and stayed for 6 years. Bitter about draft dodgers? Now that would be a canned hunt worth going to.

[MichiganMadDog]

When I was in the service one of the worst tasks I ever had was to man a telephone for people calling in during the amnesty program. Proclamation 4313 by President Ford gave amnesty to individuals that met specific criteria. These folks ran when their Country called. My job during that time was to pass information on to people that wanted to turn themselves in and move on with their lives as Americans. To take advantage of all America has to offer. I wondered how many young men had to take the place of these cowards. These young men that stepped up when called and were killed because of the people that ran.
I got my draft card. My number was so high I would never had been called, so I joined and stayed for 6 years. Bitter about draft dodgers? Now that would be a canned hunt worth going to.

You are a true American, Thank You.
I can easily see the hatred for draft dodgers.
Even Elvis served and he had a lot to give up!

If anyone has an article or link about this Ted Nugent draft dodging story, please pass it along!
I've been a music fan of his since the 70's but I will look at him differently if this is true.

[COBRADOC]

You are a true American, Thank You.
I can easily see the hatred for draft dodgers.
Even Elvis served and he had a lot to give up!

If anyone has an article or link about this Ted Nugent draft dodging story, please pass it along!
I've been a music fan of his since the 70's but I will look at him differently if this is true.

Try this: http://www.newshounds.us/2007/08/26/proof_ted_nugent_is_a_draft_dodger_will_hannity_ke ep_defending_him.php

Just google "ted nugent draft dodger".

[Billy Dixon]

I think grocery stores and butcher shops should be illegal. Not only do they remove all aspects of skill, luck and fair play, they also remove killing and the moral resolve it takes to do it. It's the same as hiring a hit man!

BAN GROCERY STORES!!!!

:rolleyes:

BTW, it's rumored that Boogyman was spotted traveling from a shoe store with a pair of shoes made from an animal that he didn't kill! Then he left the grocery store with a steak from a cow he did not kill! Not only did he not kill that cow, he didn't even gut it or butcher it!!!!!:o

[mustangdave]

I loved reading this stuff...Crap cover Motor City Madman...draft dodging fool...canned hunts...now born again gun toting conservative...:sniper: You know...I grew up in PRK like Mooky and Hunter 385. I expect these "entertainment" types to change their stripes to "suit" the situation. Boogeyman..good gouge my fren...as for canned hunts...this is the way of the RICH...who don't want to soil their dainties...put anyone of these "celebrities" in the field and tell em "go get em tiger"...they wouldn't know the barrel from the butt of a rifle...canned and planned events are how the John Kerry's of the world can say they "support" gun rights and the 2nd Amendment. Lets not forget good ole Dick Cheney either....he's just as bad a shot.

[Ballenxj]

What his fans do not know is that Ted himself was a Vietnam draft dodger who got himself cut loose from service by showing up for his physical covered in his own feces and after not showering in weeks. He had a child out of wedlock and only ponied up support when the court forced him to. Real family values. A Great American.

But never mind that. He’s a hunter, right?

Well maybe not.

It turns out that Ted Nugent is not just a sunshine patriot, he is also a canned hunter. In fact, Ted runs his own canned hunt facility in Michigan called Sunrize Acres where, for a hefty fee, you can shoot tame buffalo that have been trucked to his 340-acre spread.

Along with buffalo, Ted's farm is a pay-shoot for whitetail deer ($2,000 for a doe!), wild boar, “exotic ram” (that would be farm goats for you who are wondering), and Sika and Fallow deer.

These are not wild animals -- they are trucked-in farm stock. The bison are no better than glorified farm cows, the Russian boar are no better than glorified farm pigs, the "exotic rams" are just farm goats, and the deer are corn-fed dependents.

Cartoon buffoons like Ted Nugent and his canned hunt farm are, I am sad to say, the loud and ugly public face of hunting in America today.
Are YOU SERIOUS? WOW! Why has this not made the news before? :unsure:
Also, I note this thread was posted in 2006?
-Bruce

[37NAU]

It's funny how all of these chickenhawks who clamor for war and who say it's the "right thing to do" such as: Bush, Cheney, Limbaugh, NUGENT et. al. all wussed out and found all sorts of excuses when it was their time to serve. . . . . .but a good majority of the Dems, such as Gore, Murtha, both Kerrys, etc. all went to Vietnam. . . . . . . .

and the BS keeps rolling. . . . . . . .

[37NAU]

Oh-and I forgot about Newt Gingrich. . . . a man who writes about military history, but who didn't have the balls to SERVE in the military. . . . .he graduated from college in 1968. . . . .what a fu.....hypocrite.

[markw76]

You guys do know why this was parked here in thread purgatory, right?

[37NAU]

I don't give a **** why it was parked in thread valhalla. I just want folks to know that good ole' gun-toting ted was nothing more than a long-hair who did what he could to squirrel out of Vietnam. Hardly the balls of somebody whom I want representing my gun rights.

[markw76]

He also abused drugs and spread his oats like there was no tomorrow...he seems to have learned some lessons from all that. Possibly that the folks he used to hang with weren't worth hangin' with.

[37NAU]

Well, just so everybody knows that good ole' Uncle Ted, Mr. "guns and freedom" himself-was too much of a chickenheart when it came his time to stand up for those very rights he is such an ardent supporter of now. Wuss. He had his chance-and chose to be a hippie instead.

[gossman]

Well, just so everybody knows that good ole' Uncle Ted, Mr. "guns and freedom" himself-was too much of a chickenheart when it came his time to stand up for those very rights he is such an ardent supporter of now. Wuss. He had his chance-and chose to be a hippie instead.
That was the point of boogyman starting this thread, to show that he isn't as he seems. I have enjoyed his music, listened to him talk about hunting and gun rights but when he started hawking the war I tune him out. I have a difficult time having someone tell me about sending kids off to war when they neither 1) have children that are eligible to send, and /or 2) never have served themselves. I served (1st Marine Div., Cmbt Engnr) but never had to face the elephant though it looked close during the Iranian Hostage situation. We were called to the tarmac with our 782 gear that night when the Embassy was taken over. Looked like we were going but the call never came. Back to the Nuge, okay for hunting, but lacks credibility when it comes to military.

[Carbine85]

This may not excuse him from his past but I thought I would post anway.

[edit] Military
An interviewer from the British newspaper The Independent questioned Nugent about a 1977 interview in High Times magazine in which Nugent allegedly detailed elaborate steps taken to avoid the Vietnam draft.[33]

"I got 30 days' notice of the physical," Nugent told them. "I ceased cleansing my body. Two weeks before the test I stopped eating food with nutritional value. A week before, I stopped going to the bathroom. I did it in my pants. My pants got crusted up." [33]

Nugent dismissed the veracity of these statements, saying "You've got to realize that these interviewers would arrive with glazed eyes and I would make stories up." He explained that he did not go to Vietnam because he had a one-year student deferment. When questioned, he admitted that he had "not wanted to get his ass blown off in Vietnam," but made note of a tour he made with the USO in 2004 to Fallujah and Afghanistan as support of his assertion that "I am not a coward." He also said that "Because I failed to serve in Vietnam, I feel an obligation now, to do everything I can to support those defending our freedom. Do I feel guilt and embarrassment? Yes."[33]

[markw76]

This may not excuse him from his past but I thought I would post anway.

...he admitted that he had "not wanted to get his ass blown off in Vietnam," but made note of a tour he made with the USO in 2004 to Fallujah and Afghanistan as support of his assertion that "I am not a coward." He also said that "Because I failed to serve in Vietnam, I feel an obligation now, to do everything I can to support those defending our freedom. Do I feel guilt and embarrassment? Yes."From what I have read, Fallujah in '04 was dangerous for anyone, combatant or not. Sounds like he's grown up a bit over the years.

[COBRADOC]

...he admitted that he had "not wanted to get his ass blown off in Vietnam,"

Want a link to the names of 58,256 men and a couple of women who also didn't want thier asses blown off in Vietnam?


...[he] made note of a tour he made with the USO in 2004 to Fallujah and Afghanistan

....... but what he doesn't say is that these "holly softies" are surrounded by more guns the POTUS.

..."I am not a coward.".....

Yeah, and a pig's pu$$y ain't pork.......

. Do I feel guilt and embarrassment? Yes."

He should be.

From what I have read, Fallujah in '04 was dangerous for anyone, combatant or not. Sounds like he's grown up a bit over the years.

Ever seen any of these "Celebrity" tours? Their butts are better protected than the POTUS. Still doesn't count in my book.

[markw76]

Ever seen any of these "Celebrity" tours? Their butts are better protected than the POTUS. Still doesn't count in my book.That's fine, not trying to convince anyone that doesn't want convincing. But in places like Falujah, not much protects from indirect artillery fire. One mortar and...

[freesw]

Nugent dismissed the veracity of these statements, saying "You've got to realize that these interviewers would arrive with glazed eyes and I would make stories up."


:rolleyes:

C'mon.

[rice paddy daddy]

Nugent is a buffon who certainly doesn't speak for me. Not a coward? Yeah, and pigs fly.
I just hope the guy who had to go in his place made it. This is a free country, so if ya'll want to worship at the altar of the Nuge, feel free to do so. But for me, I wouldn't walk across the street to spit on him if he was on fire.
Rice Paddy Daddy
1st Infantry brigade, 5th Infantry Division (Mechanized)
Quang Tri Province, Republic of Vietnam, 1969-70

[COBRADOC]

Nugent is a buffon who certainly doesn't speak for me. Not a coward? Yeah, and pigs fly.
I just hope the guy who had to go in his place made it. This is a free country, so if ya'll want to worship at the altar of the Nuge, feel free to do so. But for me, I wouldn't walk across the street to spit on him if he was on fire.
Rice Paddy Daddy
1st Infantry brigade, 5th Infantry Division (Mechanized)
Quang Tri Province, Republic of Vietnam, 1969-70

Well said!! Welcome home brother.

[FHBrumb]

I don't hunt. Let me say that first off. I don't object to it in any way, I'm just not a hunter...

I don't think that anyone that participates in the "canned hunts" are hunters either. They are target shooters, it's just that their targets are live animals.

I caught a video once where someone was supposedly bow hunting a male African Lion. As I clicked on it, I figured I was about to watch the best bow hunter in the fight of his life, against a lion. NOT! He snuck through the brush, and the lion was clearly eyeballing him the whole time. He pulles and released, the lion barely flinched. the shot was maybe 20 or 30 yards. After a few seconds, the lion stood, and just walked away. The "hunter" followed, and the same situation repeated itself. Another shot, another non-flinching lion. After that, the "hunter" approached, and found the dead lion. My thoughts were "WTF???" I'm guessing that the lion was part of a farm or something, as it never made an aggressive or defensive move, except to walk away following the first arrow strike.

To me, that's not hunting. Call it what it is. But I don't consider it unethical, to do such a thing, but a little insulting for those that truly stalk, find, and kill an animal with skill, and not fence lines, to guide them.

It's "Live Target Shooting", but not exactly hunting...

Just my $0.02 folks...