WARNING Glock and Surefire problem

[gunrun45]

I just got some information that Glock is offering a free replacement of their magazine springs and recoil springs to LE agencies that issue Surefire x200 lights with their duty weapons.

Evidently the Glock "flex" of the frame causes G22's to jam sometimes when used with the Surefire x200 light. The metal light puts to much "bind" on the "flex" in the frame. They have already replaced all the recoil and mag springs in teh Fish and Game pistols due to this problem.

Here is the part that really chafes my shorts. Both companies knew about it all along. When questioned they stated that they knew it was an issue but did not warn operators about the potential problem becasue most users do not use lights.:angry: :angry: :angry: They used the scape goat of the fact that they designed a "Glock" light specifically to offer a 100% reliable light for use on their pistols.

You gotta be kidding me. :blink: This is THE most widely issued handgun in the WORLD today combined with close to THE most popular light sold today!

The pistols will function reliably with the insight lights because they have a plastic body.

That is the last time I EVER buy anything from Glock. That is total BS!

[Arizona Mikey]

Even though I never liked the Glock's two-by-four styled grip (and, therefore, never actually bought one for myself) I always sincerely believed the "Glock Perfection" hype. Everybody always asserted that Glocks worked, every time and all the time. Who was I to argue?

I don't buy that any more. Every day, it seems like I hear more examples of how Glocks are just another overhyped pistol.

Sorry, Glock fans. Glocks do have their virtues . . . but they've really got some problems, too. :(

[faawrenchbndr]

Sorry to hear of the problems. I for one find that hard to believe that the weight of the light can cause this type of problem. Has this been stated as a problem from Glock?

I had a 19, loved it but have since gotten away from Glocks.

[gunrun45]

Sorry to hear of the problems. I for one find that hard to believe that the weight of the light can cause this type of problem. Has this been stated as a problem from Glock?

I had a 19, loved it but have since gotten away from Glocks.

Problem admitted by both Glock and Surefire. It has nothing to do wiht the weight, it is the metal body of the light that crimps the frame and keeps it from "glock flexing". That's why the Glock light still works.

They say that if you have the new 11 pound mag spring and a new recoil spring you will get 100% reliability.

I don't trust it.

[Soda Pop]

The more they overtake the plumbing.....

[faawrenchbndr]

..... it is the metal body of the light that crimps the frame and keeps it from "glock flexing"........

I got it now, seems strange.

[guncats]

that is weird, my G35 has a steel recoil guide rod and it never jammed....... the steel rod should not allow any flex either I would guess?

[gunrun45]

the guide rod has no effect on the frames flexing though. Glock has always touted their frames as flexing to absorb recoil. The guide rod effects barrel to frame allignment. The only portion that contacts the frame is the rear portion that acts as an inertia "block" as it were to stop the frames motion and capture the spring.

Anything else is beyond whatever explination that was given to me. Simple answer is watch out. It is/was a problem that effected the safety of many LEO's.

[Metalhead]

I had a "Glock Perfection G-30 (.45)", it was suppose to hold 10rnds. in the mag and 1 in the barrel. You had to really fight the 10th rnd. into the mag., then fight to seat the mag in the weapon-rediculous! Turns out that most other g-30 owner's have the same experience.

[Olds]

Oops... I was looking at two mid size Glocks. Now you all got me to re-thinking my choice.

Suggestion please?

Olds

[FatDaddy]

Nothing wrong with GLOCK IMO. They are one of the toughest and dependable out there. My G21 is probably the most accurate pistol I have. Everyone should own at least one.:lol:

[gunrun45]

Nothing wrong with Glock as long as you use it within their "defined" parameters. What torques me about this is that they KNEW about it and didn't make it public, issue a recall, warning notice, etc...

You make the choice. Do you want a popular pistol that does not admit when they make a mistake? I'll never own one that I am not REQUIRED by a department to carry. Even then, I will research options.

Bite me once, shame on you...bite me twice, shame on me. This is not dishwasher or hammer we are talking about, this is a gun. Every time a Police Officer has to use it, it is a life or death situation where the alternative outcome is you laying in a casket with your family gathered around.

If you make a mistake or have knowledge of a situation that may develope with your product I believe they had the moral obligation to notify their consumers. I wouldn't even be ranting on this if they had sent out a simple 3x5 card warning notice, at least they would have tried!

[Leucoandro]

Well All I can say is the PR person for glock that announced this sucks. I cant believe that the PR person glock sent out would actually say, "yeah we knew, but the rail is intended for our product so we didnt say anything"

I am not saying it didnt happen, I believe it did. I am just saying that is a stupid PR Person.

I have never bought into all the hype about the Glock reliability. People have done the same glock test with the Ruger P series sythetics, S&W synthetics and even the new Springfield XD 45. They all passed just the same as the glocks. I read an article I believe on the Springfield XD 45 and I believe that they fired several thousands or rounds through it before even actually starting the Glock test. It passed with flying colors. I think they even added a couple extra tests.

Now I know it sounds like I am bashing glock. I am not trying to. I just dont think that it is any better a pistol than a Ruger or a S&W. I like the way the Glock 19 and 23 look. I am not wild about the look of the long barrels on the 17 and 22 though. I would probibly own either a 19 or 23 if it was more comfortable in my hands.

*Edited* I was thinking about it some more. The Grip felt decent in my hands. It was a little blocky, but still decent. It was the trigger that got me. I have long fingers and I still felt like I had to reach to get my finger on the trigger. I just dont like having to reach for a trigger.

[texasrick]

Hate to say "I told you so" but if guns were made from blued steel and walnut......as god intended......this "problem" would have never come up.

Plastic is for toys, not guns.......and all those "gadgets" hanging off of a handgun are just as out of place.

I do admit to being.......just a little bit conservative, though.

[jimmy]

Hello, my name is Jimmy and I'm a Glockaholic. I own maybe 15 Glocks. I don't keep an exact count, so I can truthfully tell my wife "I don't know" when she asks me how many Glocks I have.

Anyway, obviously I like Glocks. But, no, they aren't perfect, and I've had more than my share of problems with them. Like my G17 that still won't shoot to POA after a trip back to Smyrna (yes, the problem could be me, but I don't think so). Like my G27 that came brand-new with bad mags that fed the nose of the cartridges upward into the barrel hood. Like my G29 that was one of the infamous EGN-series pistols with their weird failures to eject. Like my OD G29 whose frame cracked after 40 rounds and whose striker would fall when the slide was out of battery (Glock replaced the whole darned gun; the new one is fine). Like my G36, another lemon, that was still unreliable after three trips back to Smyrna. Finally took the loss and got rid of it.

That said, most of my Glocks have been first-class firearms that shoot where they're aimed all day without a stoppage or any other problem. For Glocks that work (and that's most of them), their reliability and durability combined with light weight and low maintenance puts them at the top of my list of carry guns.

As far as the Glock/Surefire incompatibility is concerned, I find it hard to fault Glock either for the problem itself or for not communicating about the problem. If I understand the situation correctly, the trouble seems to me like a Surefire responsibility, not a Glock responsibility. Surefire marketed its light to go on guns made by someone else, but didn't do its homework on Glocks. I don't believe Glock can assure that its pistols will necessarily be compatible with every aftermarket accessory that comes along. I'd also say that Glock is under no obligation to modify its products to blow with the wind from Surefire, but went above and beyond by doing this very thing with the recoil and mag springs. I do agree that Glock can be non-communicative about problems, but this rouses my ire only when the problem comes from something of Glock's own manufacture--and unfortunately I've had this experience more than once. I don't quite see that Glock has any responsibility to do Surefire's job for them, and if I were Glock I wouldn't put myself in that position.

Just my $0.02. :)

[PSG1]

:) No,Glock ain't perfect but its damn close.Think about how many other manufactures are making ploy frame pistols (copying Glock).Almost all of them.I'd say their the second most copied pistol next to the 1911,that's alot!The less parts a weapon has the less chance there is for something to go wrong.Thats part of the poly frame success.Glock is like the AK47 of pistols.Every blue moon something may go wrong,BUT NOT OFTEN.

[FatDaddy]

Hello, my name is Jimmy and I'm a Glockaholic. I own maybe 15 Glocks. I don't keep an exact count, so I can truthfully tell my wife "I don't know" when she asks me how many Glocks I have.

Anyway, obviously I like Glocks. But, no, they aren't perfect, and I've had more than my share of problems with them. Like my G17 that still won't shoot to POA after a trip back to Smyrna (yes, the problem could be me, but I don't think so). Like my G27 that came brand-new with bad mags that fed the nose of the cartridges upward into the barrel hood. Like my G29 that was one of the infamous EGN-series pistols with their weird failures to eject. Like my OD G29 whose frame cracked after 40 rounds and whose striker would fall when the slide was out of battery (Glock replaced the whole darned gun; the new one is fine). Like my G36, another lemon, that was still unreliable after three trips back to Smyrna. Finally took the loss and got rid of it.

...

Zarrmm, Jimmy! How many did you go through to find all these problems? I thought I had bad luck.:blink:

[Metalhead]

:) No,Glock ain't perfect but its damn close.Think about how many other manufactures are making ploy frame pistols (copying Glock).Almost all of them.I'd say their the second most copied pistol next to the 1911,that's alot!The less parts a weapon has the less chance there is for something to go wrong.Thats part of the poly frame success.Glock is like the AK47 of pistols.Every blue moon something may go wrong,BUT NOT OFTEN.
I don't think you can put Glock and the Browning 1911 .45 in the same category as far as being copied. S&W was really the only one who copied the design off them (S&W Sigma series), Glock sued and won. Using polymer was done even before Glock (H&K vp-70 in 1970 to 1984 in 9mm with 18rnd. mag.). The polygonal barrel that Glock uses has been around before Glock (H&K was one of the first manufactureres to use this barrel profile in a rifle, later in pistols). If you look into the gunmaking history Glock did a bit of copying themself, including the "Browning action".The 1911 "blue print design" is the most copied-bar none. I bet you can't tell what my favorite pistol design is?:D

[MIK911]

texasrick, if god intended for guns to be made out of wood and blued steel, why do more than half the law enforcement agencies in america use plastic toys to uphold the law? hmm good question, and who would want ever want a dumb "gadget" such as a light, and metal head maybe you've never heard of the springfield armory's xd line, but that is very heavily based off of glock, just putting that out there

[texasrick]

First.....law enforcement personel are not on average that knowlegable about firearms. In fact you would be hard pressed to find a group that had less knowlege in this area.

No one ever accused them of being smart......and if they did there isn't enough evidence to convict them.

The reason that the Glock and other poly handguns are so popular is that they are "idiot proof" (as much as any handun can be) and light weight. The weight factor seems to be important since the gun will be carried a lot but seldom used (most LEO's only fire their guns once a year...if that....to qualify).

The reason for all the "gadgets" is primarily due to the "cool" factor......."cool" is very important to most LEO's. That stuff works really well in video games (where most of this generation gets it's firearms exsperience) and maybe, in RARE cases, when used by highly-trained special operations groups (military).

Most would be much better off with a 1911.......and a LOT of practice. Not likely to happen.

Don't misunderstand me....I think the Glock is a wonderful piece of engineering and I love the trigger. It is one of the few truely new ideas to come along since John Browning died. However, it could be better and it is definitely NOT head-and-shoulders better than the 1911. Just because it is popular doesn't make it better.......particularly when the group using it has little or no knowlege of firearms (LEO's).

[MIK911]

first off, i never bad mouthed or put down the 1911 in any means, i think they are great guns, but i also love glocks, and although some leo's may not be very knowledgable glocks have been proven time and time again for their durability, reliabilty, and simplicity. is it a bad thing that its hard to f*** them up(or what you call idiot proof)? not in my eyes, but to each is his own and everyone is entitled to their opinions

[gunrun45]

texasrick: Wow, I never would have guessed that you are such an expert on LEO's. Its so refreshing to find someone who thinks LEO's are so incompetent. That must explain why one posted this thread to tell you (the otherwise unknowing consumer who would have never known about this) about this potentially life threatening problem.

By the way. I carry a flashlight on my DUTY HANDGUN (that LEO's are REQUIRED to qualify with 4 times a year) and I use it during building searches, felony car stops and just about any other time that I want a free hand when holding a gun in the other at night.

I agree that most LEO's are not firearm experts and do believe that the Glock TYPE (glock, XD, Sigma, etc...) weapon or revolver make for a simpler operation. They don't suite everyone though.