Indyarms
06-26-2006, 17:36
Ok folks... If you havent yet... google a FS2000 from FN... They are VERY nifty little bullpup rifles... theres a few on gunbroker too...
I need some advice.. actually... help TALK ME OUT OF ONE!
I already have a pair of Saiga .223's, I have a pair...one 20" DPMS, and one 24" SS/Fluted DPMS target rifle, A Savage SS/F 26" .204 Ruger varmint rifle... as well as many other assorted 10/22's, 17 hmr's, etc..etc...
It would be one more SWEET, SEXY rifle to add to the collection... but for close to $2000... I am thinking I could buy SEVERAL other VERY nice rifles instead...
It will NOT fill a missing niche, except for the bullpup niche... Thats a thumbs up right there... but other than that... I have the semi-auto .223 market cornered pretty well, with AK plinkers and long barreled tack driving AR-15 style target/varminters...
So... what do yall think? Spend the wad? SAVE the wad? buy several OTHER nice rifles?!?!
Looking for some input... common concensus may or may not actually swing my knuckleheaded whims... Although I am hopeful!! :lol:
THANKS!!!
:lol:
Indyarms
06-28-2006, 11:13
I do like the look of the storm... however for 1/3rd the price, I would buy the Hi Point carbine, and then the ATI aftermarket storm lookalike stock...
I doubt the hipoint could shoot any worse, and the hipoints have a lifetime warranty... cant beat that... for $240.00 you can have a storm lookalike that *SHOULD* shoot 2" groups at 50M. all day long!
:lol:
Indy, if you are left-handed like me, the FN2000 and PS90 will be the bullpop to get!
the only other option (to me) is the AUG lefthand which is way way way cool but worth a fortune now-a-days so I doubt I will use it even if I have one......
Sorry I just couldn't help it. :wacko:
Have fun
stevekaw
06-30-2006, 15:28
http://www.nrapublications.org/TAR/Bullpups.asp
http://www.nrapublications.org/TAR/images/Bullpups1.jpg
FNH USA Unleashes The PS90 & FS2000
These radically styled, compact semi-automatics from FN spring from a heritage of innovation that redefined the state of art in combat carbines. They are ambidextrous, fun to shoot and, best of all, available on the civilian market today.
Since its inception, the bullpup rifle has had only spotty success, yet it remains one of the most alluring ideas to both military arms designers and civilian shooters alike. The unconventional configuration, in which the grip and trigger are forward of the magazine well and action parts are in the rear portion of a truncated stock, is not new. It was proposed for semi-automatics as early as 1948 by none other than John C. Garand in his experimental T31 rifle.
Today, as then, the bullpup design’s main appeal remains its minimal overall length, making it more portable and maneuverable, with a barrel long enough to extract reasonable ballistic performance from its cartridge. And since bullpups generally have been fashioned around intermediate cartridges rather than full-power cartridges, the resulting low overall weight makes them even more attractive.
A few bullpups, including Austria’s AUG, Britain’s SA80 and France’s FAMAS, have managed to gain a foothold in military circles. But even those that proved successful were handicapped in the marketplace either by legal restrictions or by ergonomic limitations.
In recent years, though, several new bullpup designs have appeared, and two of the most interesting are from FNH USA, the U.S. subsidiary of famed armsmaker Fabrique Nationale of Herstal, Belgium.
From its founding in 1889 through the company’s current stewardship of Browning Arms Co. and Winchester guns, the “FN” marque has become synonymous the world over with high-quality firearms.
FN’s most potent presence in the U.S. is its South Carolina plant that manufactures many of the arms fielded by the U.S. military. FN produces many of our troops’ M16A2 rifles, along with mainstay machine guns such as the 5.56 mm NATO M249 and the 7.62 mm NATO M240.
As the giant armsmaker approached the 21st century, it formulated a business plan that called for a substantial reinvestment of profits into the development of new small-arms systems. It spent $80 million to modernize factories, obtain core technologies for state-of-the-art manufacturing and re-invest in research and development.
One area it pursued was the NATO call for a so-called personal defense weapon, or PDW, which eventually resulted in the 5.7x28 mm FiveseveN system: a flat-shooting cartridge firing light 0.224" bullets and both a high-capacity pistol and high-capacity select-fire bullpup carbine chambered for it (November/December 1999, p. 40). The system was, initially, a military-only proposition.
Today, civilian-legal offerings include three different sporting loads; an updated polymer pistol with built-in light rail; and a semi-automatic version of the PDW.
That latter gun and a new .223 Rem. bullpup carbine that feeds from AR-type magazines represent the latest in ambidextrous, military-inspired bullpups now on the civilian market. If our evaluations of FN’s U.S.-assembled semi-automatic PS90 and FS2000 carbines are any indication, this dynamic duo may finally put to rest the question of whether the lowly bullpup can finally run with the big dogs.
The PS90
By Brian C. Sheetz
Senior Executive Editor
There’s no doubt about it, FN’s PS90 is—even by bullpup standards—a bit strange.
Few other stocks exhibit such a convolution of arcs, holes and projections. And few magazines hold as many rounds, rest in as odd a location or feed in as indirect a manner. Yet, once in the hands, the PS90 feels and works well. In fact, after firing just a few rounds, it quickly becomes instinctive to shoot and promotes confidence through its ergonomic excellence, flawless functioning and consistent controllability. Perhaps most importantly, the PS90 is one of the only bullpups ever to offer true ambidextrous functioning.
http://www.nrapublications.org/TAR/images/Bullpups2.jpg A semi-automatic clone of the original P90, the PS90 precludes that design’s select-fire capability and adds several inches of barrel to achieve an overall length 1/2" longer than the legally required 26".
The P90 was born of a NATO search for a PDW, an arm that, rather than replace a battle carbine or rifle, would serve as a compact, shoulder-slung companion for troops that required a gun with more power than a 9x19 mm pistol or submachine gun. Since its development, the P90 and its body-armor-defeating 5.7x28 mm ammunition have seen service in several European armies, and in special forces units and police departments.
Of course, FNH USA is careful to note that such armor-piercing
ammunition is sold only to law enforcement and military agencies. Not to worry; the civilian PS90 can be fed with any of three civilian-legal, FN 5.7x28 mm sporting rounds containing the cartridge’s light .223-cal. bullets: a 28-gr. lead-free load with an aluminum-core hollow-point bullet, and both red- and blue-polymer-tipped 40-gr. sporting loads with Hornady V-Max bullets.
The PS90’s O.D. green polymer stock is the primary source of its unique appearance and is the single most critical component, holding each of the parts groups in their proper relationships.
What FN calls the “barrel-support and optical-sight group” consists of the cast aluminum receiver, which rests at the top front of the stock, and the sighting system, barrel and charging-handle carriage.
The built-in optical sight is non-magnifying and offers a “daylight” reticle—a thin-lined doughnut—and a “low-light” reticle, which consists of three heavy tritium-powered posts similar to that of a traditional European No. 4 riflescope reticle. A pair of threaded holes on each side of the sight housing provides attachment points for Picatinny rails to accept lasers or lights. An optional top Picatinny rail replaces the built-in optic, allowing mounting of other sights. A set of back-up iron sights is cast into the receiver on both the left and right sides of the optic.
The hammer-forged barrel is a shade more than 16" long and sports a 2 1/2" compensator that is pinned permanently in place, bringing its total length to just over 18".
http://www.nrapublications.org/TAR/images/Bullpups4.jpg The PS90’s magazine (A) is one of its more innovative features. The translucent polymer box inserts between the supports for the optical sight, helping guide it into position. Once the entire unit is longitudinally above the stock, it is pressed down into position and emits an audible “click” to confirm that it is seated. The double-stacked rounds lie perpendicular to the bore’s axis and make a clockwise 90-degree turn in a turret at the magazine’s rear before feeding. Though the magazine of the original P90 holds 50 rounds, buyers of the semi-automatic PS90 will receive either a 30-round magazine with their rifles or, in those states that require it, a 10-rounder. Fifty-round units are available on the commercial market.
The “moving-parts group” consists of the steel breechblock (B), which measures 7/8"x1 1/2"x3 3/4", and a pair of 0.32" steel guide rods that retain the recoil springs. The forward ends of the guide rods are tapered and mate with two corresponding holes in the receiver’s rear. The rear ends are held together by a polymer yoke with a projection that locks the buttplate in position. The breechblock rests against the barrel extension. The 1/8" pivoting extractor lies at 6 o’clock, and a 1/8"-diameter plunger-type ejector lies at the 12 o’clock position in a recess at the center front of the breechblock. A cylindrical stainless steel “stabilizer” lies in a milled recess in the block’s left side under rearward spring pressure and rides the left guide rod, acting as a rate reducer.
The receiver is held in the stock by a 3/4" square spring-loaded plunger called a “barrel-support lock” that protrudes through an opening in the top of the stock.
The fire-control assembly (C), or “hammer group,” fits in the lower rear of the stock and consists of a polymer chassis with five, 5/32" stainless steel cross pins that serve to locate the various small parts—of which most, including the hammer, are molded from high-strength polymer.
When the PS90 is field-stripped, the trigger, trigger bar, safety and magazine release are retained in the stock. The trigger bar is an 11 1⁄2"-long, 1/8"-diameter U-shaped steel wire. The trigger-blocking safety is a 1 1⁄4"-diameter polymer disc, with serrated right and left indentations. The disc rotates to index either a “1” or “S.” Its settings are distinctly felt and heard.
After a magazine has been inserted and seated into the stock, either charging handle is pulled to the rear—moving the breechblock to its rearmost position—and released. The breechblock, moving forward under spring tension, strips the first round from the magazine and feeds it into the chamber. As its recessed face comes to rest against the barrel’s protruding rear, the pivoting extractor snaps over the cartridge rim, and the plunger ejector presses against the cartridge, compressing its spring. The breechblock’s coming to rest also disengages a safety sear designed to prevent out-of-battery ignition.
Moving the safety to “1” and pulling the trigger presses the trigger bar rearward, releasing the main sear and allowing the hammer’s mousetrap spring to power it forward to strike the inertial firing pin mounted in the breechblock. After firing, residual gas pressure moves the breechblock rearward, and the extractor pulls the cartridge case to the rear, where the ejector sends it downward and out the ejection port. The breechblock continues rearward where it re-cocks the hammer, re-sets the safety sear and returns to battery.
The PS90 handles and points easily and quickly, benefiting from a between-the-hands weight distribution. In practical shooting drills it proved fast to the target and nearly instantaneous in recovery between shots thanks to the light recoiling 5.7x28 mm cartridge.
The test sample PS90 provided failure-free functioning. Accuracy of the PS90 carbine with all three civilian-legal loads at 50 yds. is recorded in the accompanying table.
On the down side, the heavy 7-lb. trigger pull and marginally effective sights hampered its otherwise pleasant demeanor. Picking up and maintaining the pale, low-contrast circular reticle in the zero-magnification reflex sight was difficult. The tritium-powered picket-and-post reticle, intended for dim-light use, also was difficult to see.
Regardless, the PS90 is easily one of the most innovative and purpose-designed guns ever. Its compactness, true ambidextrous nature, extensive use of lightweight materials and innovative magazine system make it a ground-breaking firearm.
http://www.nrapublications.org/TAR/images/Bullpupsres1.jpg
The FS2000
By Michael O. Humphries
Managing Editor
Like the PS90, the .223-cal. FS2000 rifle is unique within the world of bullpup designs. Those that have made allowances for left-hand use—such as the Steyr AUG—required the user to swap out some internal parts. Few have come this close to being truly ambidextrous right out of the box.
But, before we get to that, let’s consider the background and basic design of the rifle. The FS2000 is based on the Fabrique Nationale F2000 rifle, recently adopted by a major Middle Eastern country and currently being tested by some European nations. To allow for importation of a civilian-legal version of the rifle, modifications from the original select-fire F2000 were made that include a redesigned fire-control unit and related attachment points within the stock. These changes make the FS2000 a semi-automatic-only rifle that will not accept the F2000’s fire-control parts. In addition, the FS2000 features the requisite number of U.S.-made parts as well as a permanently attached muzzle brake. Another change is the barrel length. The original F2000 has a 15 3/4" barrel, whereas the FS2000 has a barrel with an overall length of 17 1/2" including the brake. In addition, the green stock also differentiates the FS2000 from the black-stocked F2000.
http://www.nrapublications.org/TAR/images/Bullpups3.jpg The FS2000 feeds from readily available AR-15/M16 magazines and features a short-stroke gas-piston system with a regulator plug. The plug has two settings: “normal” for standard ammunition and “adverse,” which simply allows more gas into the system to ensure functioning when fouled.
The rifle features modern materials in its manufacture. The stock is a tough polymer, and the receiver assembly is made from a lightweight aluminum alloy. The bolt, barrel and barrel extension are, of course, steel.
Sighting options with the FS2000 are nearly limitless, as a long expanse of Picatinny rail rests atop the receiver section, complemented by a set of back-up sights. The front-sight assembly is a sturdy winged unit that is adjustable for elevation and is attached to the rail. The rear sight is a flip-up metal peep that is adjustable for windage and is housed just to the rear of the rail.
A modular handguard, situated just forward of the triggerguard, actually forms the forward, inner face of the trigger guard. It is rigidly locked into the receiver through interface rails inside the stock. It can be replaced with tactical light, laser and rail replacement units.
As a southpaw, I must admit that I have been intrigued ever since I first saw the military version of this rifle about three years ago. I have always been fascinated with bullpup designs, but few, if any, made allowances for my “condition.” With the exception of the operating rod/charging handle that is located on the left side of the gun—generally requiring operation with a lefty’s shooting hand—practically every control of the FS2000 is ambidextrous.
The safety is a disc located just forward of the trigger in the bottom, forward section of the trigger guard and is ambidextrous. Rotating it clockwise switches the gun to semi-automatic firing mode. A counter-clockwise rotation places it back on safe. Additionally, ambidextrous sling attachment points are provided on the rifle.
The ambidextrous magazine release is located just forward of the magazine well. Wrapping a hand around the lower section of the magazine body to remove it causes the user to instinctively press up on the release.
http://www.nrapublications.org/TAR/images/Bullpups5.jpg Visual access to the chamber is also ambidextrous in nature. As the location of the chamber and bolt in the FS2000 design places it inside the body of the stock, an inspection cover (A) is located just to the rear of the rear-sight assembly. Popping it open gives visual access to the chamber.
Finally, and most significantly, fired cases are ejected out of a port (B) located in the forward, right section of the receiver. As with all bullpups, the bolt and firing mechanism are in the stock, right next to the shooter’s face. What makes the FS2000 unique is its ejection tube above the barrel. The port at the end of this tube is covered by a synthetic door that pops open under the pressure of the fired cases that “stack” up in the tube. Additionally, simply tilting the rifle downward will allow the fired cases to fall out if the door is open. If this seems a bit eccentric, it is; but it works.
The rifle features a six-lug bolt rotated by a kidney cut in a bolt-carrier assembly. Once a round is fed into the chamber and fired, gas is tapped off the barrel to power back the piston and push the bolt carrier rearward. This unlocks the bolt and begins the process of extracting the cartridge. As the case moves rearward, the extractor is pulled away from the case, and the ejector moves the case up into the FS2000’s novel “switch.” This plastic carrier receives the empty case as it is rammed upward by the ejector, aligning it with the ejection tube. At the same time, the bolt continues rearward to cock the hammer and then returns forward to strip a fresh round out of the magazine.
Disassembly of the rifle is relatively straightforward, and reveals some unique design features. The rifle employs a modular fire-control assembly (C) that is made primarily of polymer, including the hammer.
Firing the FS2000 is a pleasure. The design, although it may look ungainly, is well-balanced and points naturally. For accuracy and function testing, we mounted a Leupold CQ/T that, while an excellent optic, made the overall package a bit top-heavy. Nonetheless the rifle performed like a champ, with cases gently rolling out of the forward ejection port. It also turned out to be quite accurate as the results at 100 yds. in the accompanying table indicate. My only complaints with the rifle were the heavy trigger pull and the slick surfaces of the handguard and the pistol grip. In addition, I found the lack of a last-shot bolt-hold-open device surprising.
The FS2000, along with the PS90, breathes new life into the bullpup world and, despite its non-reversible charging handle, gives all southpaws new hope.
http://www.nrapublications.org/TAR/images/Bullpupsres2.jpg
stevekaw
06-30-2006, 15:32
FN PS90
Importer:
FNH USA, Inc. (Dept. AR),
P.O. Box 697, McLean, VA 22101;
(703) 288-1292; www.fnhusa.com
Caliber: 5.7x28 mm
Action Type: blowback-operated semi-automatic carbine firing from closed bolt
Receiver: anodized aluminum
Barrel: 18 1/2", including muzzle device
Rifling: eight-groove; 1:8" RH twist
Magazine: 10- and 30-round detachable translucent polymer box with transverse rotating feed
Sights: non-magnifying optical reflex; back-up iron
Trigger Pull: 7 lbs., 5 ozs.
Stock: olive drab green polymer
Overall Length: 26 1/2"
Weight: 6 1/2 lbs. (without magazine)
Optional Accessories: sight-adjustment tool, black-reticle optical sight, top and side Picatinny rails, visible laser, tactical light, sling, magazine pouch, empty-case collector
Suggested Retail Price: $1,514
FN FS2000
Importer:
FNH USA, Inc. (Dept. AR),
P.O. Box 697, McLean,
VA 22101; (703) 288-1292;
www.fnhusa.com
Caliber: 5.56x45 mm NATO (.223 Rem.)
Action Type: gas-operated semi-automatic rifle firing from closed bolt
Receiver: anodized aluminum
Barrel: 17 1/2", including muzzle device
Rifling: six-groove, 1:7" RH twist
Magazine: detachable, AR-15/M16 box magazines
Sights: Picatinny rail; back-upunits, winged front and flip-uppeep rear
Trigger Pull: 11 lbs., 1 oz.
Stock: olive drab green polymer
Overall Length: 29"
Weight: 7 1/2 lbs. (without magazine)
Optional Accessories: sight-adjustment tool, replacement fore-ends with lights, lasers or Picatinny rails, sling, spare magazines
Suggested Retail Price: $1,920
gunrun45
07-01-2006, 15:57
Berretta is making a new version of the storm that will begin its life as being marketed ONLY to LE and military here in the US.
It has all of the features that the storm has now, but it will have a colapsible stock, shoot the 223 round AND take AR mags. I believe it uses a gas piston system also instead of the gas system that the AR uses.
Not a area "bullpup" rifle, but you can change the direction of ejection.
It will be a short throw probably to get one as a civilian, and berretta is preety good about selling most of their products to civilians eventually. Something to look for in the futrue anyway. I have seen them marketed several times in Guns $ Ammo for LE.
vBulletin® v3.7.0, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.