Israeli Rifle Not Seen Before [Archive]

aquaphreak

05-26-2006, 10:54

Just finished viewing a Bullpup style rifle made in Israel.

Designed to replace M-16. Shorter to handle urban warfare needs of Israel. Semi-auto that fires 5.56 mm.

Saw this sweet lookin' little thang on Discovery Channel's Modern Marvels or something close to it.

Didn't pickup the name of this weapon. But might like to get a closer look at this little gem.

Wish I could remember the name of it. Not much to go by.............But anyone out there have an idea as to what this "beauty" is?

SPARTEN117

05-26-2006, 11:11

its called a tavor, it is the coolist looking bullpup i have ever seen.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid205/p2f7965bec25dd28d6f3d38c1fb000d0c/ef3c4198.jpg

plinky

05-26-2006, 11:14

Nice!

aquaphreak

05-26-2006, 12:33

That is definitely the weapon I saw.

"new" ranch rifle??? Ha, ha. Keep it in the truck, whup it out when needed.

Understand that it is issued with red dot type scope.

Wonder if it is widely distributed to troops now.

Tankcommander

05-26-2006, 15:48

That is a cool looking rifle.

TC

Bill

05-26-2006, 17:43

Pretty accurate too. I wonder how good the trigger feel is....

rugmar

05-26-2006, 20:04

Were do you put the water in?

I just had to say this before boogy did. LOL!

To each his own. I personally don't like it but then I guess I'm just getting old.

Boogyman

05-26-2006, 20:34

Were do you put the water in?

I just had to say this before boogy did. LOL!

To each his own. I personally don't like it but then I guess I'm just getting old.

Ha ha! Good read, Rugmar! :lol:

I agree, it looks like a squirt gun! When you pull the trigger, do little lights flash and does it make a rat-a-tat-tat noise?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Killer@nz

05-27-2006, 03:40

At the risk of upsetting some of the more mature members of the forum...;) I like it a lot. The rifles I have fired in the bull-pup design have been excellent and I would like to take this into the field and knock it around for a month or two to see how it preforms. Always a good thing to see a new development...I don't want to be the first to carry it into battle but I am interested to know how it stacks up against the latest standard.

FatDaddy

05-27-2006, 05:46

I caught the tail end of that show the other night. Looks pretty sweet. Reminds me of the weapons of "Starship Troopers".

rugmar

05-27-2006, 14:51

I agree, it looks like a squirt gun! When you pull the trigger, do little lights flash and does it make a rat-a-tat-tat noise?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Now that's funny!:lol: :lol:

aquaphreak

05-31-2006, 14:37

I have never fired a 100% bullpup designed weapon. However, I did fire a bullpup kit put on a Ruger mini-14.

Felt nice and compact. Lower weight, of course. But .223 cartridge still didn't buck gun at all.

Trigger actuation mechanism sucked big time. Linkage didn't give you much confidence.

Shooting a for-real bull pup gun in sunny Kalifornica. Whatta treat.

slaughterhouse

05-31-2006, 21:50

At the risk of further upsetting the mature posters here...

One of the STARS team members in "Resident Evil 2: Apocalypse" carries a TAVOR, complete with MARS aiming unit.

Boogyman

05-31-2006, 22:56

If I'm one of the "mature" posters you're referring to, you don't have to worry about "upsetting" me, that's for sure! :lol:

At the risk of upsetting some of the less mature posters here, this gun looks exactly like the type of space-death-ray movie prop that would be used in some silly action/horror movie like "Resident Evil" or whatever it's called.

A MARS "aiming unit" huh? Is that the tactical, spec-ops, super-ninja-commando replacement for what we used to call "sights"? :lol:

Sorry, no offense, I just can't help myself... :lol: :lol: :lol:

SPARTEN117

06-01-2006, 06:52

At the risk of further upsetting the mature posters here...

One of the STARS team members in "Resident Evil 2: Apocalypse" carries a TAVOR, complete with MARS aiming unit.
"MARS" WTF :blink:

aquaphreak

06-01-2006, 12:36

I grew up watching cowboy movies in black and white on T.V.

They carried revolvers, I luv 'em too. I also like rifles with wood furniture and steel. No plastic. The M16 ??? Well, Strange lookin' satanic thang.

But.......................projectiles coming from the barrels of the "plastic fantastics" still put holes in carcasses and go bang too. So whatever floats yur boat and gives you pleasure

Boogyman

06-01-2006, 19:18

Yeah, I know. I don't mean any offense, I'm just an old fart, that's all. ;)

It is a pretty spacy-lookin' thang, I imagine it would be fun to shoot! :D

crn323

06-01-2006, 19:58

heres a link to info on the tavor www.defense-update.com/directory/tavor.htm

Mannlicher

06-03-2006, 19:00

The last I heard, budget concerns have made the Tavor project moribund. There was a push to make it in the US, so we could GIVE them back to Israel as part of a military aid plan. Down the road it might be economically viable, but not today.

Oswald2001

09-30-2006, 11:40

Yeah. The Tavor is being held up because of economics.

There 'could' be enough Tavor parts made in the US to qualify for military aid, but, the people making the parts for the M4's currently being supplied to Israel don't want anything changed.

Switching to the Tavor would be a MAJOR change involving a lot of time, money and energy. All for a doubtful benefit. It kinda seems like a solution in search of a problem.

Many view the Tavor as mainly the creation of another weapons system for foreign arms sales. Basically like a new model of car that some people just have to have. And bullpups are sorta in vogue at this point.

I'm not saying that the Tavor is a bad firearm. I'm sure it has some really good points.

cambell

10-01-2006, 22:45

i saw that gun on a tv show called future weapons. the host. an ex marine ,fired it standing 300 meters at an 8 inch steel plate and hit it on the first shot. he said he really liked the gun. it has a built in electric sight that is turned on with the safety. i think we owe it to our troops to have the option of having this as thier field weapon.

Pete K.

10-01-2006, 22:58

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/tavor/Tavor.html

http://www.defense-update.com/directory/tavor.htm

http://www.defense-update.com/news/62302tavor.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tavor_TAR-21

http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/29-397.aspx

http://www.answers.com/topic/imi-tavor-tar-21

Copy and paste, but yes it is very functional and deadly....

Pete K.

Zen900

10-01-2006, 23:24

rutro

10-02-2006, 23:59

This one blows my dress up, http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/cb_fs2000.htm, and tickles my fancy too:o :o :o

Zen900

10-03-2006, 00:34

The specs say it's forward ejecting. Wonder which way the bullet goes?

Killer@nz

10-03-2006, 01:07

I think I'm in love :o

Bill

10-03-2006, 11:56

The specs say it's forward ejecting. Wonder which way the bullet goes?

Ya think that the bullet might go out the barrel?

Zen900

10-03-2006, 12:24

Ya think that the bullet might go out the barrel?

You mean that long skinny thing on the right? That aint no barrel; that's an antennae for downloading to its built in Ipod.

Tankcommander

10-03-2006, 16:43

Nice links. The TAR looks like a bullpup on mescaline. If it is said to replace other rifles I don't think so if the M16 didn't do that. Wasn't the C17 supposed to replace the C131s? It didn't. Apples and oranges.

The C17 was supposed to replace the C141 and supplement or replace the C5. Its a heavy lifter the 130 is a medium lifter. Congress hasn't funded enough of them and keeps funding 130s the boys in blue don't want. Cargo planes aren't sexy and get over looked until needed.

Saw the show on the Tavor as well looked interesting looks like the emphasis on the design was urban combat from the show.

TC

Zen900

10-03-2006, 20:56

The C17 was supposed to replace the C141 and supplement or replace the C5. Its a heavy lifter the 130 is a medium lifter. Congress hasn't funded enough of them and keeps funding 130s the boys in blue don't want. Cargo planes aren't sexy and get over looked until needed.
TC

Zen900 says:
Was talking with a guy this summer at a big motorcycle hangout in the Tennessee mountains. He worked at the Marietta Ga plant where C131s are still being built. I was surprised and said I thought the C17 replaced the C131. It was he who told me about how the C17 was unable to do the job of the C131 because of the C131s ability to land and takeoff in places the C17 couldnt dream of. So far the C131 has been king of the hill in its niche. It's like the Mauser of Cargo planes.

It will be interesting to see if the TAR replaces other time proven rifles.

jonsidneyb

11-08-2006, 00:13

I think bullpups have quite a bit going for them and somethings against them

It is hard to get a good trigger as it has to be forward of the hammer and sear. There is friction that is almost unavoidable

garza1290

11-08-2006, 07:27

I'm not too savvy on bullpups, besides personal biases what are the pros and cons of these things?

TwinRugers

11-08-2006, 23:50

compactness, longer barrel for OAL of weapon = improved ballistics,
cons = usually crappy triggers, some times trouble w/ ambixterity(is that a word?)

garza1290

11-09-2006, 10:23

Hmmm.<_< I wonder what a bullpup stock would do to my stainless mini 14 ranch rifle. Thanks. Oh by the way the word is "Ambidexterity" but you were close enough. :D

Oswald2001

11-09-2006, 17:19

Bullpup weapons can be significantly louder to the shooter.

Chamber is right next to the shooters face which makes a lot of shooters....nervous.

What would happen to the shooter in the case of a KABOOM? They happen.

Luv-My-Mini

11-09-2006, 19:08

Hmmm.<_< I wonder what a bullpup stock would do to my stainless mini 14 ranch rifle. Thanks. Oh by the way the word is "Ambidexterity" but you were close enough. :D

Whatever you do, avoid the POS known as the Muzzlelite. You are better off custom building something yourself. I wouldn't take one for free. Unfortunately, I had to pay $100 to find that out. I can't believe they are still in business. I can't believe reputable dealers like gunaccessories.com and bushmaster have the nerve to sell that crap.

Back to the main thread, I don't know how these weapons are superior to the tried and true Steyr. I would love to have that FN, but other than availability in the US I don't know what it's advantages are vs. the Steyr.

garza1290

11-10-2006, 19:51

Whatever you do, avoid the POS known as the Muzzlelite. You are better off custom building something yourself. I wouldn't take one for free. Unfortunately, I had to pay $100 to find that out. I can't believe they are still in business. I can't believe reputable dealers like gunaccessories.com and bushmaster have the nerve to sell that crap.

Back to the main thread, I don't know how these weapons are superior to the tried and true Steyr. I would love to have that FN, but other than availability in the US I don't know what it's advantages are vs. the Steyr.What about these Muzzlelites make them POS's? Just curious...I've never researched them.

Luv-My-Mini

11-10-2006, 21:15

The muzzlelite is two pieces of plastic split vertically into which you lay the metal bits of the Mini. The two sides are then joined by about 12 bolts of which maybe two are the same length. The "open sights" are plastic, as is the "rail" for mounting optics. The "safety" is a crappy piece of plastic that blocks the crappy plastic trigger bar. I do not know how it stands up to heat because I never bothered to fire it. It costs quite a bit more than a decent folder from Butler Creek. You can only use it right handed. Although I am right handed, part of the logic behind getting something that compact that could be shoulder fired was that I might be firing from unusual positions behind cover, or in buildings and cars. It is a toy and a crappy one at that. That is why you see so many of them on ebay as well as the for sale sections of enthusiast sites like this ones. I hope I saved you some grief. Mine is being stored but if you are interested in a couple of months I can send it to you. Anyone else care to chime in with Muzzlelite stories? Anyone from bushie care to give me my money back?

garza1290

11-10-2006, 21:30

Thanks for the Info. Are there any other options for the Mini-14/bullpup configuration or am I just ****ing in the wind?

rsidner

11-20-2006, 21:09

There's one major thing that I hate about bullpups and it actually involves the totality of the bullpup design. I hate the placement of the magazine and the feel of reloading one. With something like an M4 in particular, I can hit the mag release with my trigger finger and be reaching for a fresh magazine at the same time. Even with an AK or mini where you need to hit the mag release with your off hand, it's still easier to all ready have a fresh mag in your hand and drop the spent mag at the same time. On top of which I like to be able to easily see where I'm sticking the mag and with a bullpup I just think it's too close to me. Aside from this, which is only my preference, from what I saw of it on 'Future Weapons', I was impressed with everything that I saw of it.

Luv-My-Mini

11-20-2006, 23:19

Garza-sorry I have been away from my computer for a while, I hope you are still following this thread. Although I understand rsidners objections from an ergonomic standpoint, I am a huge fan of bullpups for the 5.56 cartridge. Here's why-when bbl length drops below 16" with the 5.56, the effectiveness of the round starts dropping dramatically. Without the downrange velocity of the longer bbl you are basically just throwing .22s at your target-no fragmentation no energy, and a pretty small hole. Bullpup configuration allows you to keep the barrel length over 16" vs. 11.5 or 14 for shorty CARs, with an OAL that is actually shorter than most CARs.

Sadly there are no options for bullpup minis other than making your own custom. There are practically no options for bullpup 5.56 other than the new FN (Steyr is prohibitively expensive and I don't think the Brit option is available, or very good).

FYI I am not an idiot but I have no practical experience and I am not a 'smith so there are many guys on this board who you should listen to before me. BTW I love your avatar, Oleg rules.

garza1290

11-21-2006, 22:08

"FYI I am not an idiot but I have no practical experience and I am not a 'smith so there are many guys on this board who you should listen to before me. BTW I love your avatar, Oleg rules."

I hope I didn't offend you in any way bro. You obviously know way more than me in this matter. Thanks for all the info. Forgive me if this sounds dumg but what does "Oleg rules" mean?

Luv-My-Mini

11-22-2006, 10:42

I wasn't offended at all. Darn internet, can't tell what people mean when stuff is written instead of said. I was just saying there's lots of guys on this board who know way more than me, so generally if someone like Tri70 or Cajungeo say something that contradicts something that I said, they are probably right.

Oleg is Oleg Volk (not Volkov, I don't know why I always think it's Volkov). He is the webmaster for www.a-human-right.com

I believe he is the copyright holder for the images, there a tons of great ones like this on the site:

http://www.a-human-right.com/s_racist.jpg