SHTF whats your Pick

[SPARTEN117]

what's your idea of the perfect shtf weapons combo. You can pick two weapons to take with you in an chinese invation situation. small arms only and you have to be able to go down to your local ffl an order it, but you dont have to own it.
http://members.cox.net/shawn22/DSAECPARA
and an Trijicon acupoint 3-9

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b314/operator1/DSC00715.jpg
the hatchet is for CQB:blink:

[Splinter]

Well I am in cali so no AR. Not really a setback though cus I dont really care between ar and mini or m1.

Being that I have to pick 2. I would pick a long rifle/ bolt action- such as my savage 308 or or any other surgical hundred plus yarder. Then some sorta close range "assault" rifle- my mini would be perfect, it goes bang every time, or a simple 12 gauge rem 870 with buck and slugs. Dont really care for a handgun. If I let um get that close to me, I am probly already dead, or will need way more firepower then a handgun anyways.

[mr_will]

it depends on where i am and what the situation is

if im in the middle of the woods where there will never be any long shots
m1 carbine or an AK and my beretta 96

if it was in a city, it would be my ar and my beretta 96 and me sittin on a roof top

if i was trapped in a building or something similar it would be a SBS 12ga, and beretta 96

if i was in the desert or swamp area it would be my mak 90 hands and still would be my 96 or if possible a full frame glock because of environment

if you cant tell im fond to my beretta, i have owned it over 7 years close to 8 and it has yet to let me down.

if i had to choose one rifle for all, it would be a nice .22LR
to many variables to just choose 2, thats why i own more than 1 rifle and 1 handgun

[SPARTEN117]

to many variables to just choose 2, thats why i own more than 1 rifle and 1 handgun True but I cant see humping with my gunsafe on my back:D

[Boogyman]

Invaded by the Chinese? A specific scenario makes my choice much easier.

AK-47, 9mm handgun.

Both will be easy to find ammo for, because the Chinese will have plenty of it.

Sparten, your hi-tech "tactical" choice there won't be worth squat once your batteries run down and you run out of ammo. And drag it through the mud and dirt and see how well it fires.

In guerilla warfare, it's best to use whatever the enemy is using, because he is your only source for resupply.

[DaveyDug]

My SHTF combo is already set up and ready to rock. WASR-10 with 30 round mags, and Springfield Loaded 1911A1. Two weapons I wouldn't hesitate to trust my life to.

[mr_will]

Invaded by the Chinese? A specific scenario makes my choice much easier.

AK-47, 9mm handgun.

Both will be easy to find ammo for, because the Chinese will have plenty of it.

Sparten, your hi-tech "tactical" choice there won't be worth squat once your batteries run down and you run out of ammo. And drag it through the mud and dirt and see how well it fires.

In guerilla warfare, it's best to use whatever the enemy is using, because he is your only source for resupply.

I concur with this 100%
but also the chinese are doing away with the 7.62x39

[Dorkface]

...and you have to be able to go down to your local ffl an order it, but you dont have to own it...


Well in Colorado you can get Class 3 weapons. So give me an M-60 and a M3 greasegun(never said you had to beable to pay for it hehe).

OK now for the real world. My M14 and my 1911.

[chozen1]

assuming 2 person team for shtf; like wife and i; could also be 2 brothers; sister; father; friend etc
one person would have containment rifle such as sig pe90 5.56 with elcan good to 500 meters and a handgun such as 1911 in 40 or 45; could also have glock
other person precision rifle like remington 700 police in 308win with leupold mark 4 m1 mildot using fed goldmedal 168 grain good to 800 meters and also a handgun such as 1911 in 40 or 45 or glock
even better if precision rifle chambered in 338 lapua mag such as accuracy international; sako trg; etc
would be good if both people are proficient with both rifles then could switch roles.

[ryan_kalani]

m1a scout and my glock 22

[Kinslayer]

My M1A Bush, and my S&W 559 9mm. I'd rather have my Colt Delta Elite or my Glock 20 in 10 mm, but there would be more ammo around for the 9mm.

[SPARTEN117]

Invaded by the Chinese? A specific scenario makes my choice much easier.

AK-47, 9mm handgun.

Both will be easy to find ammo for, because the Chinese will have plenty of it.

Sparten, your hi-tech "tactical" choice there won't be worth squat once your batteries run down and you run out of ammo. And drag it through the mud and dirt and see how well it fires.

In guerilla warfare, it's best to use whatever the enemy is using, because he is your only source for resupply. First there are no weapons that chamber 5.8 boogy, second am Aimpoint has a battery life of 1 year so if i have a box of surefire's thats 12 years.:rolleyes: The Chinese dont use AK's any more they use this, In cal. 5.8mm http://us.f500.mail.yahoo.com/y5/s/viewphoto?get=previewimg&folderid=%2540S%2540Search&mid=1_22_3_1486_0_ABYmvs4AAVnyRGddKAztoh6RmM0&partid=2

[SPARTEN117]

an AK is an Exalent choice I just want something that will reach out to 800m. something an AK cant do, an M-4 is good to but I want to be able to shoot through wall and an M-14 is to heavy with all the rails and stuff. boogy why do you rag on my choice of weapon, I chose it because it is very practical, 308 is plentiful. when/if we go to war you can have your ak and i'll have my Fal and we will both kill bad guys.:rolleyes:

[Zealot]

I'd say my SOCOM and a 1911..

photo ophttp://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y105/Zealot222/socom16.jpg

[Boogyman]

an AK is an Exalent choice I just want something that will reach out to 800m. something an AK cant do, an M-4 is good to but I want to be able to shoot through wall and an M-14 is to heavy with all the rails and stuff. boogy why do you rag on my choice of weapon, I chose it because it is very practical, 308 is plentiful. when/if we go to war you can have your ak and i'll have my Fal and we will both kill bad guys.:rolleyes:

I'm not "railing" on your choice, Sparten, just pointing out weaknesses. Having been there, I would hope you'd find an old grunt's advice helpful! ;)

If you're gonna fight an invasion force in a guerilla war, you're not gonna have a huge military machine to back you up and resupply you with truckloads and planeloads of ammo and batteries.

How many rounds of .308 do you think you can carry on the run, and how long do you think that much will last in one firefight?

If the Chinese manage to replace several million AK-47's with something else and invade us, then I'd grab whatever rifle and ammo they were using off of the first dead Chinese soldier I found.

Plus your weapon is gonna need to be simple and reliable, and though all that "tactical" stuff is cool and hi-tech right now, I guarantee you'll lose those battery-operated gizmos real quick when they prove fragile and impractical.

K.I.S.S. :rolleyes:


BTW your link doesn't work.

[josh]

Lets see if it is the chinese invading us Ill be carrying my sks,1911 and star bm.
I dont expect Id be bright enough to last long in a guerilla war though. Id be the ****ed off redneck charging straight into the chinese forces. Id probably last about 20 seconds.

If by some miracle I survived my first encounter I would grab whatever I could. preferably something select fire.

[SPARTEN117]

http://world.guns.ru/assault/type95-1.jpg
I do respect your saltie' ness. The optic in that pic is an Aimpoint and has proven that it is tough enough to last in combat. however know that I think about it an ACOG would probebly be better(no batteries). I am not a fan of lasers so you wont see any on my weapons. boogy that weapon is a Fn fal in tacktical clothes with a 16" barrel, the langth is overall 37 ", weight is about 9lbs. the fal is a proven design/ battel rifle and there is no arguing that 308 beets 5.56, 762x39, 5.8 and 5.45

[Boogyman]

Josh will be lying at the bottom of the foxhole shaking with a pants-load of crap.

Sparten will be cursing and fumbling with the knobs on his weapon, arguing about which cartridge is best for SHTF.

I'll be wearing a clothes-pin on my nose, trying to shove one of Sparten's .308 mags into my empty AK, and looking for a shovel to pick up and swing at the thousands of Chinese over-running us.

Reality bites. :lol:

[SPARTEN117]

and looking for a shovel to pick up and swing at the thousands of Chinese over-running us.


Reality bites. :lol: Thats what the hatchet is for;) and who's arguing and i am very familer with the manual of arms for a Fal, oh and what nobs:blink: ADVANCED COMBAT OPTICAL GUNSIGHTS 3.5 x3 5



http://www.trijicon.com/parts/acog1.jpgThe ACOGs are internally-adjustable, compact telescopic sights with tritium illuminated reticle patterns for use in low light or at night. Bindon Aiming Concept (BAC)* models feature bright daytime reticles using fiber optics which collect ambient light. The ACOGs combine traditional, precise distance marksmanship with close-in aiming speed. Although the ACOGs have many features which are very advantageous for military use, they were developed by Trijicon without government funding.
Designed for use with the M16 family, every feature of its mechanical and optical design was chosen for a single purpose: to provide increased hit potential in all lighting conditions -- without failure-prone batteries.

[SPARTEN117]

QBZ-95 / 97 [Type 95 / 97] assault rifle (People Republic of China)

http://world.guns.ru/assault/type95-1.jpg
5.8x42mm QBZ-95 assault rifle, left side view

http://world.guns.ru/assault/type95-2.jpg
5.8x42mm QBZ-95 assault rifle, right side view; magazine is removed and a 4X telescope sight is installed

http://world.guns.ru/assault/type97-1.jpg
5.56x45mm QBZ-97 / Type 97 assault rifle; note different magazine port, designed to accept STANAG / M16 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as18-e.htm)-type magazines
Data for QBZ-95 (QBZ-97 in parenthesizes, where differs from QBZ-95)
Caliber: 5.8x42 mm (5.56x45 mm NATO)
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt
Overall length: 760 mm
Barrel length: 520 mm
Weight: 3.4 kg unloaded
Rate of fire: ~ 650 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds
In the late 1980s Chinese designers developed a 5.8 x 42 cartridge, apparently designated DBP87, which is claimed to be superior to both the 5.56 mm NATO and the 5.54 mm Soviet. This cartridge develops a muzzle velocity of 930 metres per second from a standard barrel, with a bullet weighing 4.26 gram.

As soon as the ammunition was ready, the PLA began to develop an entirely new and much more modern family of small arms based on the same action. This family, known as QBZ-95 ('Qing Buqiang Zu' = Light Rifles family, 1995), was first displayed outside the PLA in 1997, when China took over Hong Kong; it was observed that the Chinese guards were armed with a new, modern looking bullpup rifle. In fact it is one of an entirely new family of weapons, all designed around the same action and bullpup layout, which include the assault rifle, a shorter carbine, a light support weapon (with a bipod, a heavier barrel and large capacity magazine), and a sniper rifle. While being quite similar inside, these guns have different body shapes and cannot be converted from one configuration to another. The QBZ-95 line of weapons is now spreading throughout the PLA, commencing with elite units. The QBZ-95 is a gas operated, magazine fed, automatic weapon with a bullpup layout. It has a short stroke gas piston and a rotating bolt. The charging handle is located at the top of the receiver, under the carrying handle. The housing is made from polymer, with an integral carrying handle, which holds the rear sight base, and has mounting points for optical or night vision scopes. The ejection port is made only at the right side of the weapon, so it cannot be fired from the left shoulder. Standard sights are of the open type, graduated from 100 to 500 metres. The front part of the barrel in the standard version is left unobstructed, so the QBZ-95 rifle can be used to launch rifle grenades. It also can be fitted with an underbarrel grenade launcher or with a knife bayonet. A compact carbine version, sometimes referred to as the CAR-95, cannot use either a grenade launcher or a bayonet, because of the much shortened barrel. Fire controls of QBZ-95 rifle consist of a trigger and a safety/selector switch, located (quite inconveniently) at the rear left of the receiver, behind the magazine housing. QBZ-95 can fire single shots or bursts.

The export version, QBZ-97, which is chambered for popular 5.56 x 45 NATO ammunition, is internally similar to QBZ-95, but has a different, much deeper magazine housing, which accepts a NATO-standard (M16 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as18-e.htm)-type) magazines.

[jumpluff]

Invaded by the Chinese? A specific scenario makes my choice much easier.

AK-47, 9mm handgun.

Both will be easy to find ammo for, because the Chinese will have plenty of it.

Sparten, your hi-tech "tactical" choice there won't be worth squat once your batteries run down and you run out of ammo. And drag it through the mud and dirt and see how well it fires.

In guerilla warfare, it's best to use whatever the enemy is using, because he is your only source for resupply.

I'm with Boogy....I am taking my Mini-14 and KP345....I will use them to "procure" whatever combat rifle and side arm the majority of my enemy are carrying. I have no combat experience....but plenty of logistics experience. Unless you can feed it....you might as well be carrying a rock and a stick. Mostly....I would try to remain hidden.....I would leave the heroics to the young bucks! :lol:

[ShootinDave]

Only 2???

1) Rem 870 12g
2) AR15

- You can use both for killin ppl and killin food from deer to rabbits.

- Dave

[adaman04]

Mini and Glock 17 or 19.

[crn323]

interesting, never seen anyone propose the idea of a chinese invasion. personaly, i think it's highly probable, most likely under the guise of a "peace keeping" force. anyway, my picks are my springfield sar-8, (an H&K 91 clone), and my rem. 870. as far as ammo resupply, i'll bank on the probability that the enemy i've killed wont be needing their equipment any more and i'll take what i need, rather than trying to guess what an occupying\attacking force might be useing. go with what you know!

[Drakejake]

I am interesting in hearing what scenarios you guys have in mind. What circumstances might arise which would require you to hold up in your dwelling and shoot it out? I think of the L.A. riots during which many Korean stores in the "ghetto" were looted. You guys are not planning another Waco, are you?

Drakejake

[Boogyman]

as far as ammo resupply, i'll bank on the probability that the enemy i've killed wont be needing their equipment any more and i'll take what i need, rather than trying to guess what an occupying\attacking force might be useing.



The point is to try to ambush a small enemy patrol, kill them quickly without getting killed, then grab their weapons and ammo and get the hell out of there fast. No need to "guess" what they might be using.

Whatever your SHTF gun is, it's only useful until you run out of ammo. Unless the enemy happens to use the same ammo, you'll be throwing it away as soon as you can procure enemy weapons.

If we are invaded, we won't be defending a fixed position. We'll have to be mobile to evade death or capture by superior forces. Hit and run tactics. Our intimate knowledge of the local terrain will be our only advantage.

Any thoughts ya'll might have about defending your house against a battalion of well-trained Chinese soldiers with tanks, artillery and air support is pure fantasy. Your only chance is to be gone into the hills before they get there. Then try to hook up with other escapees and organize.

[gunrun45]

I'm gonna have to go with boogy on this one. Hit and run using whatever is around.
What 2 weapons would I have/ take with me. Well, if I'm at home and near my guns safe (most unlikely) my choice would be my EAA witness with multiple uppers and ammo choices (22lr to 45 and 10mm) and my M4.

If I'm at work it would be my AR, H&P USP45F and custom rem 870 (all my daily gear on hand), maybe a raid of the armory depending on the situation.

If I'm in between, Id have to say my H&K USP40c and kel-tek 223 rifle (what I normally have with me).

I don't think it will ever happen now with the global economy and all (covers head while waiting for sky to rain down).

[SPARTEN117]

The point is to try to ambush a small enemy squad, kill them quickly without getting killed, then grab their weapons and ammo and get the hell out of there fast. No need to "guess" what they might be using.

Whatever your SHTF gun is, it's only useful until you run out of ammo. Unless the enemy happens to use the same ammo, you'll be throwing it away as soon as you can procure enemy weapons.

If we are invaded, we won't be defending a fixed position. We'll have to be mobile to evade death or capture by superior forces. Hit and run tactics. Our intimate knowledge of the local terrain will be our only advantage.

Any thoughts ya'll might have about defending your house against a battalion of well-trained Chinese soldiers with tanks, artillery and air support is pure fantasy. Your only chance is to be gone into the hills before they get there. Then try to hook up with other escapees and organize.
Your absolutely right boogy, I live right next to the woods so all I need is 5 minutes notice and I am gone, the problem is I probably wouldn't go to the woods first, (don’t ask you'll laugh at me:ph34r: ) but after that I would be gone. I would be very proactive and would kill the first RPG operator I saw, and reek havoke with their armor:D

[Boogyman]

I probably wouldn't go to the woods first, (don’t ask you'll laugh at me:ph34r: )



Now you know I have to ask, Sparten... ;)

What, you gotta feed the hamster first as the tanks are rolling down your street? :lol:

[SPARTEN117]

No boogy there is this girl that I’ve had a crush on forever and I would have to go the 10 miles in the wrong direction to go and get herhttp://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/smiley_abused.gif as she is very important to mehttp://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_blush.gif, and I don’t trust her dad to take the right steps to take care of her. All of this is funny because I generally could care less about any one ells. Except for my own family. Ok now that I have embarrassed my self, i am preparing for the speech's.

[Sten]

I don't want to be a troll but....

Don't loose any sleep over the Chinese hoards rolling on us. The supply lines are simply too long. Every "red dawn" (Fortress America) scenario falls apart on the numbers alone. We are a country of 300 million. Even if only 1 in 20 people fight to save the US that is still 15 million people fighting an invasion.

But you asked what guns. So it is on me My AR and my everyday CCW 1911. My wife will have her everyday CCW 9mm and a Remington 870. the orders are to stay low and keep moving, we will only fight to break contact and keep moving.

[CJ1]

I don't want to be a troll but....

Don't loose any sleep over the Chinese hoards rolling on us. The supply lines are simply too long. Every "red dawn" (Fortress America) scenario falls apart on the numbers alone. We are a country of 300 million. Even if only 1 in 20 people fight to save the US that is still 15 million people fighting an invasion.

But you asked what guns. So it is on me My AR and my everyday CCW 1911. My wife will have her everyday CCW 9mm and a Remington 870. the orders are to stay low and keep moving, we will only fight to break contact and keep moving.


Not to be a pessimist, but the Chinese are a country with a population of 1.3 BILLION people. Their army alone is probably bigger than the MAYBE 15 million we could muster. The big difference is they have a LARGE manpower pool to draw on that we would not. It is a scenario that I hope to never see, because it would most likely result in the end of America.

As far as weapons, I would just grab whatever guns and ammo I had closest to me at the time, and head for the hills. I would just go into hiding. I would not fight any invading force alone. If you want to fight, you had better get some friends, because a single individual against even a single squad of well armed and trained infantry is likely to be wasted. Just my 2 cents worth.

[DaveyDug]

Their army alone is probably bigger than the MAYBE 15 million we could muster.

The People's Liberation Army (PLA) is moving toward an overall reduction and reorganization of personnel and equipment with the goal of creating a more modern and mobile army. In 2000, the total estimated personnel strength of the Chinese military is 2.5 million, of which 1.8 million are in service with the PLA (ground forces).

http://www.comw.org/cmp/fulltext/iddschina.html

[sticks]

Don't loose any sleep over the Chinese hoards rolling on us. Every "red dawn" scenario falls apart on the numbers alone.

I was thinking the same thing; this "foot soldier invasion" concept makes me think of the movie "Red Dawn".

:eek:

[crn323]

Boogy, mabey you missinterpeted my reply. i agree with what you said, hit enemy and take supplies. my statement was for those posts trying to pick which weapon to carry based on the enemy and his weapons\ammo. the weapons could be different than we may think, thats why i'll use what i've got and take from those i kill to resupply with. as far as some of the posts that feel a chinese invasion is doubtfull, look at all the "peace keeping" forces deployed around the globe. whats to say it won't happen here? and as far as having so many "fighters" in this country, look at the shape we're in. the majority of people won't stand when there's no risk of physical harm. whats it going to be like when the leads flyin?




:rapid:

[ryan_kalani]

The point is to try to ambush a small enemy patrol, kill them quickly without getting killed, then grab their weapons and ammo and get the hell out of there fast. No need to "guess" what they might be using.
This has been mine and my neighbors plan for years! :)

[2rangers]

" If you want to fight, you had better get some friends, because a single individual against even a single squad of well armed and trained infantry is likely to be wasted. Just my 2 cents worth".[/quote]
I beg to differ, but The most dangerous weapon in the world is a single, determined, individual. People like Sgt. Alvin York, Lt. Audie Murphy, GySgt Carlos Hathcock. These are men who caused great grief and mischief to the enemy, singlehanded.
Me, I'd rather be alone and concealed, than w/ a group of civvies who are giving mposition away.
Did you know It's possible to smell a burning cig. from over a mile away? Or that it can be seen, at night, w/ pvs-7's from an even greater distance?
I'll be alone, in a hole, with nothing but the camouflaged muzzle of my rifle exposed, and wreaking my own form of havoc to the enemy.
The weapons would be some sort of high-power precision rifle, and a Bayonet.
Cold steel never fails, doesn't jam, and makes enemy soldiers puke when they see their buddies dis-emboweled. Then they are even easier targets.
:sniper:

[2rangers]

I would be very proactive and would kill the first RPG operator I saw, and reek havoke with their armor:D[/quote]
Sparten-
Be advised- If you take on armor(read:MBT) w/ an rpg, you are going to be killed postehaste. An rpg would be of little value in attemting to zap an MBT. Now smaller vehicles, trucks, bmp's, bmd's, mtlb's, you might have some success. If you are infantry,(or guerilla w/ a rifle and rpg) and have MBT's coming your way, and they're not ours, you have two choices:
1.-Call someone for help. A-10's, apaches, arty, friendly armor, in that order.
2.-Run and hide.
At best, you will knock off a track, and now that MBT is a stationary FSB, at worst you will give the tc a headache, after which he will open up on you.
:sniper:

[SPARTEN117]

Sparten-
Be advised- If you take on armor(read:MBT) w/ an rpg, you are going to be killed postehaste. An rpg would be of little value in attemting to zap an MBT. Now smaller vehicles, trucks, bmp's, bmd's, mtlb's, you might have some success. If you are infantry,(or guerilla w/ a rifle and rpg) and have MBT's coming your way, and they're not ours, you have two choices:
1.-Call someone for help. A-10's, apaches, arty, friendly armor, in that order.
2.-Run and hide.
At best, you will knock off a track, and now that MBT is a stationary FSB, at worst you will give the tc a headache, after which he will open up on you.
:sniper:[/QUOTE]thanks 2Rangers ok, so i guess I will screw with every thing but MBT's:D.

[Holliday]

i would take

1) backpack full of poison
2) ass kicking boots with brown tips

kill them from within!!!

[CJ1]

" If you want to fight, you had better get some friends, because a single individual against even a single squad of well armed and trained infantry is likely to be wasted. Just my 2 cents worth".
I beg to differ, but The most dangerous weapon in the world is a single, determined, individual. People like Sgt. Alvin York, Lt. Audie Murphy, GySgt Carlos Hathcock. These are men who caused great grief and mischief to the enemy, singlehanded.
Me, I'd rather be alone and concealed, than w/ a group of civvies who are giving mposition away.
Did you know It's possible to smell a burning cig. from over a mile away? Or that it can be seen, at night, w/ pvs-7's from an even greater distance?
I'll be alone, in a hole, with nothing but the camouflaged muzzle of my rifle exposed, and wreaking my own form of havoc to the enemy.
The weapons would be some sort of high-power precision rifle, and a Bayonet.
Cold steel never fails, doesn't jam, and makes enemy soldiers puke when they see their buddies dis-emboweled. Then they are even easier targets.
:sniper:[/QUOTE]


Big difference is that the people you mentioned were trained soldiers. I, and most of us here are not. I guess I meant that I personally wouldn't try to take on a squad of invading infantry alone. You can call me a wimp or whatever, but I call it being cautious. I don't think it would be smart for most people to try and "go it alone" in a "Red Dawn" type scenario. If someone who is well trained and experienced in the sniper arts wants to fight alone, more power to them, but I don't belong in that special class of warrior. I'm simply an armed citizen whose first priority in a situation like that would be getting myself and my family to safety.

[TODD3465]

Well you can forget the utility of the AK because the dinks are going to a new round 6.?? something or other. Unless of course the invasion happpens soon.

I'd rather go with my NM M1A topped, soon to be I hope, with one of those new Leupold MRT w/SPR reticle 1.5-5x scopes and one of my Sig 226's.

If I live long enough to run out of ammo they'll be plenty OPFOR weapons laying around if I need something in their caliber.

[cmm8946]

If the SHTF I don't plan to be humping through the woods. I've spent too much to have a nice defensive position. With the support of my sons, a few friends and brothers we will be doing moderate->long range work with the many bolts and M1A's in 30.06 and .308. Closer with 20" H-bars and even closer with 16" AR's and Mini 14/30's. If it gets any closer it goes to 1911's, P-series Rugers and .357's. Numerous 10/22's and several .22 Mag's will fill in any close up holes in the wire.

If I had to run and take only two guns it would be a 10/22 mag and single six w/mag cylinder. In this area 90%+ shots would be under 70 yds. The 22 mag is effective out that far and the s six is good up close. The big reason is that I could carry 3000+ rds and a few other survival goodies.

Some one said the Chinese have to come a long way-remember they are running the Panama canal and that is not very far. Makes 'Red Dawn' look like a documentary doesn't it?

Semper Fi

[992]

It looks like it will be a long time before any of us old country boys will have to dig any new ''toilet holes'' because with all of these bloodthirsty killer keyboard rangers digging their tactical sniper hides,we will just have to put wheels on the outhouse,instead of sled runners.
If by chance you have not vacated the hide,and you see the outhouse comming,don't start shooing,its just us.
By the way,if you have been splatterd all over the inside of you hiding hole by some of those enemy targets with heavy weapons,don'worry,we will give you a good burial, it just might take a while.
Don't worry about being lonely,we will try to visit you just about every day!!!!
P.S.,toss your gear out of the hole when you see the end commig, it is hard to get the gunk off of them if you don;t.

992:D :D :D

[992]

Sorry about not saying anthing about my choice of weapons in the above post ,I am getting too old to think about more than one thing at a time.
Anyway, I have an old S.A. M1A,which is probaly older than some of you,it was sold as a reciever in 1978 and built up with NM sights and other NM stuff,including a GI crome lined barrel ,one of the last ones to come out of the original S.A. in 1967.All GI exect the reciever.I have it,or a DSA Fal carbine,Bushmaster m4 clone, with the 14 in. barrel and the izzy flash hider attached to make it legal. Also a AR30 in 300 win.,with a gov't model 4.5-14 mildot gen.3 SA scope, with lighted rect.
I guess my Kimber 45 CDP as a sidearm.
Its not a perfect setup, but it is what I am used to.
Any of my hunting weapons would do as well,but I am too OFC [old,fat,cripple], to do much running on gunning,so I guess I would just have to stand and fight.

Just the way I see it.

992
May GOD have mercy on US all.

[freesw]

It looks like it will be a long time before any of us old country boys will have to dig any new ''toilet holes'' because with all of these bloodthirsty killer keyboard rangers digging their tactical sniper hides,we will just have to put wheels on the outhouse,instead of sled runners.
If by chance you have not vacated the hide,and you see the outhouse comming,don't start shooing,its just us.
By the way,if you have been splatterd all over the inside of you hiding hole by some of those enemy targets with heavy weapons,don'worry,we will give you a good burial, it just might take a while.
Don't worry about being lonely,we will try to visit you just about every day!!!!
P.S.,toss your gear out of the hole when you see the end commig, it is hard to get the gunk off of them if you don;t.

992:D :D :D

LOL, 992 that's the funniest thing I've read in a while, in a macabre sort of way ;) but then the thought of the Chinese invading the heartland a la "Red Dawn" is a dark one.
At the risk of sacrilege, I didn't find the "Red Dawn" scenario plausible at the time, nor now. That many who viewed it were inspired to preparedness can't be argued with, though.

I don't think the butchers of Beijing have any plans to invade the US. Taiwan :( is another matter.

Oh yeah, Mini 14, of course, because that's what I will have practiced with the most.

Seems to me an AK would be the best choice all-around, though for mobility's sake I like the mini's lighter weight and lighter ammo.

In the sorts of situations some of you are describing, a well-sighted Mosin hidden away might come in handy.

[Sten]

Some one said the Chinese have to come a long way-remember they are running the Panama canal and that is not very far. Makes 'Red Dawn' look like a documentary doesn't it?

Semper Fi

I will be glad to play along with any "what if" game but it is just a game. It is never going to happen.

Now really, unless green men come down from heaven and take all of our nukes no country will invade our native soil. We still have plenty of atomics for M.A.D. requirements.

More food for thought:

Lets just gloss over the whole air power issue, for that alone is the "no go" for an invasion of the US. But I would like to look at a few other things.

It is not easy to move feed and equip and resupply an army. Just think how much food a few million men will eat per day. Then add in fuel for the tanks, jeeps etc. Now add ammo, bombs, medical facilities and general supplies. Now you have to ship that amount of crap into them each and every day. Supply lines were a problem for King George in 1776 it will be a much bigger problem for your invader of choice today.

A sneak attack is impossible too. It takes a long time to build up an invasion force. Think how long it took the US to build its troop levels in WWII. Then we should look at the time it took to build our troop levels in either gulf war. We would notice a few million Red Chinese in the canal zone long before Patrick Swayze has to take to the hills.

[Boogyman]

It is never going to happen.

no country will invade our native soil.

"no go" for an invasion of the US.

A sneak attack is impossible



I just love words like "never" and "impossible". They just sound so final and irrefutable.

Kind of like the word "unsinkable". Remember the Titanic?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[ryan_kalani]

I just love words like "never" and "impossible". They just sound so final and irrefutable.

Kind of like the word "unsinkable". Remember the Titanic?

:lol: :lol: :lol:
i gotta agree with boogy on this one. never say never. dont forget what happened on 9/11.

It does not have to be a well organized, massive attack. But an attack could happen.

[Boogyman]

If the SHTF I don't plan to be humping through the woods. I've spent too much to have a nice defensive position. With the support of my sons, a few friends and brothers we will be doing moderate->long range work with the many bolts and M1A's in 30.06 and .308. Closer with 20" H-bars and even closer with 16" AR's and Mini 14/30's. If it gets any closer it goes to 1911's, P-series Rugers and .357's. Numerous 10/22's and several .22 Mag's will fill in any close up holes in the wire.



CMM, I don't mean to rain on your parade here, but all it takes is one well-placed mortar round or RPG to destroy most squad-level fixed positions. Even a concrete bunker won't stand long in the face of a large invasion force. Just look at the "impregnable" Manginot Line when the Blitzkrieg swept through it in a matter of hours.

[DaveyDug]

Just look at the "impregnable" Manginot Line when the Blitzkrieg swept through it in a matter of hours.

LOL! Good point! And the Germans didn't even hit the Maginot Line with everything they could have! Most just went into France through Belgium! :lol:

[freesw]

i gotta agree with boogy on this one. never say never. dont forget what happened on 9/11.

It does not have to be a well organized, massive attack. But an attack could happen.

Yes, an attack could happen. But an invasion anything like that depicted in "Red Dawn" is as likely as being invaded by an extraterrestrial species. That movie was a fantasy, and what it didn't show was the effects of the nuclear fallout that would have been inevitable in a scenario such as that. Yes, even in the mountains of Colorado.

But let's suppose for the moment that a nuclear exchange doesn't occur or is limited, as unlikely as that would be if the US is actually invaded by another nation's military forces. Sten's point about the resupplying an invasion force is right, especially if we're talking across the Pacific. Most importantly of all, though, there is no nation right now or in the foreseeable future that would have both the capability and motive to invade the mainland US. China has nothing to gain and everything to lose from such an attack. Don't you think China is more interested in Siberia, or perhaps Japan? They're going to have enough trouble just getting Taiwan.

I'm really not criticizing thinking about such things, just saying why I don't think a military invasion is even remotely likely. An eventuality that's far more likely would be a major environmental catastrophe, such as an earthquake along the San Andreas or New Madrid fault lines, category 5 or greater hurricanes, or massive wildfires. Another far more likely event is one or more nuclear or biological attacks by terrorists. Any of these disasters would lead to at least some degree of civic unrest, disorder, chaos, and supply problems, as we saw in New Orleans last year. Frankly, it is the possibility of a coordinated nuclear attack by terrorists in cities that I find to be the greatest of the likely threats. Even dirty bombs, which wouldn't cause a lot of death and destruction, have the potential for catastrophic ripple effects.

The planning for these events has a lot in common with anticipating an invasion, but there are obvious differences, too.

[SPARTEN117]

I just love words like "never" and "impossible". They just sound so final and irrefutable.

Kind of like the word "unsinkable". Remember the Titanic?

:lol: :lol: :lol: "the wait and see'ers will bust your ass every time" remember Pearl Harber. oh and boogy what no flame for my last coment i'm impressed;)

[Boogyman]

boogy what no flame for my last coment i'm impressed



What comment, Sparten? You mean going to save your girlfriend from the invading hordes?

"Love makes fools of us all."

There, feel better now? :lol:

[SPARTEN117]

"Love makes fools of us all." hooah!:D nah not better just figured you'd all laugh at me. oh and she is not even my girlfriend, just friend with potential<_< , but boy do i wish her parents would let me;) :D .

[Geo-Lobo]

Anytime I have envisioned a SHTF situation I see Humvees and M16s in the streets. I would start with what I have: Ruger mini-30 & P-89.

[5legion]

One comment on the Red Dawn stuff: the smart urban guerrilla would have multiple weapons/ammo cached and would be MOBILE not in fixed "defensive positions". That is how we counter-insurgents get to kill the guerrilla - when he is stupid enough to stand and fight. Cite Waco as a recent domestic example. Personally, I might have an AR-15 and Glock in GA, and SKS and .38 in CA, and a Mini and .45 in VT. Not to say I’m expecting doomsday next week, BUT IF the Chicoms ever did invade (or the Canadians for that matter) it would pay to be decentralized. For example, most of the tangos in Iraq don’t carry weapons from point A to point B, they cache them. Your hardcore VC did the same. That a way the counter-insurgent force can’t catch you red-handed with guns during the day.
Also I’m most happy with my 5.56 DPMS and my 9mm Glock 17 for SHTF because I’ve trained extensively with both.

5L

[ryan_kalani]

We've already established that in order to tackle a SHTF situation you need 1 close range weapon, 1 medium/long range weapon, and ammo / magazines for both. What other things should you have? camo, vest, back pack, armor...etc

Let's say you have one large back pack to fill with items needed for a SHTF situation, what do you include? ie rope, food, water, tools...etc

[freesw]

Tweezers, needle, thread, gauze, hydrogen peroxide, isopropyl alcohol, soap, toothbrush, toilet paper, q tips, batteries, flashlight, radio, compass, matches, candle, knife, pliers, screwdriver, can opener (the tiny kind), cup, spoon, bandana, extra socks, twine, plastic bags (all sizes), rope, yeah, that's just a start. Plus individual needs like prescriptions, extra glasses, etc.

Even a large backpack can fill up and get heavy in a hurry, so it makes sense to think about this in advance and pare down.

[gunrun45]

You can get yourself bogged down pretty quick carrying around everything you need. If you are talking about a "truck pack" like a semi rigid or rigid hiking pack you can carry around a lot. I use one for my "emergency" bad in the winter for when the power goes out and I'm stuck somewhere in the middle.

If you're talking about something I would want to hump around with (carry 15 to 30 miles on my back). It better be small, portable and everything would be multifunctional. Even 2 canteens (as opposed to 1) get heavy after a few miles in the dirt.

It would depend on my available resources and where I was going too. I.E. I wouldn't carry 2 canteens if I was going to the mountains or lake areas but I certainly would carry at least that in the desert.

[chozen1]

i don't think canada could/would invade the u.s. again (remember it did once during the war of 1812: i believe the white house was set on fire and liberty bell cracked; correct me if i am wrong)
also the chicom would rather dominate using financial power first; i believe a lot of the us debt is held by chicom. in fact it is hilarious that the chinese call themselves communist as it seems to be going hard core capitalism imho

if a shtf situation occurs it likely could be foreign or home grown terrorists rather than an invading country; (name a country besides china that would have a chance against the us)

[ryan_kalani]

You can get yourself bogged down pretty quick carrying around everything you need. If you are talking about a "truck pack" like a semi rigid or rigid hiking pack you can carry around a lot. I use one for my "emergency" bad in the winter for when the power goes out and I'm stuck somewhere in the middle.

If you're talking about something I would want to hump around with (carry 15 to 30 miles on my back). It better be small, portable and everything would be multifunctional. Even 2 canteens (as opposed to 1) get heavy after a few miles in the dirt.

It would depend on my available resources and where I was going too. I.E. I wouldn't carry 2 canteens if I was going to the mountains or lake areas but I certainly would carry at least that in the desert.
What do you think about camelbaks for water?

[gunrun45]

I love them. I have 2, one for play and 1 for work.

You can fill them about 3/4 with gatoraid or water and then freeze them Just make sure they are laying flat so they don't make some weird shape when they freeze and gouge your ribs later.

They are very durable units (the brand name ones) that have lots of replacement parts available if you need them due to some problem later.

The trick with it (like any emergency gear) is to try it out thoroughly before you use it in the field the dirst time. That way you know where the hose works best, how to get to it under you pack (or over), if it makes you rback hurt, do you need a smaller (or larger) one, etc... You can even get the purifier for it so you can take water from streams, etc without worrying.

[ryan_kalani]

I have T.H.E. Pack by Spec OPS that has a special compartment for a camelbak. I will be getting one ASAP. Thanks. Hydration has got to be the MOST important thing in a SHTF scenario, or otherwise, after your weapon(s) and ammo.

[freesw]

Hydration has got to be the MOST important thing in a SHTF scenario

Absolutely! How could I have forgotten iodine tablets in my earlier list? Some of these micro-filters that are on the market are probably good but I don't have any experience with any of them. Having the ability to make water potable would be a huge asset if things go bad.

[nzmini]

Without addressing any of the political/ likelyhood stuff, my SHTF would be a bit different down here. If the chinese invaded I would take my sks para model with red dot and 30 rnd mags (yeah boogy, I do take your point about batteries but I can't see the sk's irons that well anymore. I'll just take some spare batts.)For any situation where the adversery was not "chinese" I would take my HK sl8. Very reliable, very accurate and most important of all, It can take steyr aug mags, which is what our military and our good mates the Australians use.

[KIWIGUNNER]

There is more chance of us here in New Zealand being invaded by the Chinese than you guys in the USA, only 4 million KIWIS and lots of land.
A friend of mine was in the Korean War and was captured by the Chinese
know why? as they were shooting them they were so close they would fall into the trench with him and he just ran out of ammo like the rest of his mates and still they came!!

Now for my SHTF rifles (no handguns for the general public over here without special licence to shoot at clubs only) and I guess I would have to hump it into the woods along with other survival gear to keep a low profile so it would be a .22WRM, it has twice the energy of a .22LR, low noise level and I can carry a 1000 rounds which weights about 10 lbs.(22LR is about 9 1/2 lbs)
1000 rounds of .223 weighs about 33 lbs, 7.62x39 about 37 lbs just a bit to much to hump along with your other gear.

However if I had a prepared cabin,hut, caravan, cave etc in the woods to head to, (and didn't have to hump it all on "D DAY")I could stock it with ammo, food etc and take my mini 14, sks & 308 semi auto.

But 2 guns only it would be the .22WRM semi-auto and a 308 Reming 7400 or BAR scoped equiped may be cut back to 18" to keep it handy in the bush.
Yer I to like the M14, FN's & H&K but to heavy to hump all day and I don't need a heavy battle rifle in a SHTF situation that the 308 Remington/BAR couldn't handle to "survive".(apart from being in ALL OUT WARFARE)

I hope I dont have to hump stuff as I'm to old and not fit at all, but if I had to bugout thats what I would pick.

[garza1290]

I agree with boogy 100% on this! I expect to have plenty of AK and 9mm ammo handy once SHTF. Just follow the stench for all the ammo you'll need. Also people who depend on bells and whistles on their guns can't shoot for sh-t when those things go out.

[SPARTEN117]

I agree with boogy 100% on this! I expect to have plenty of AK and 9mm ammo handy once SHTF. Just follow the stench for all the ammo you'll need. Also people who depend on bell and whistles on their guns can't shoot for sh-t when those things go out.
Ok now for the funny part I dont have a red dot on my M-4, the only thing i have on my weapon is a flashlight incase i have to clear my house at night.:lol:

[garza1290]

I forgot, I'd have my AK with both my 75 round drums along with my 30 rounders, My Ruger PC9 (with all four 30 round mags) and my Glock 19 for back up......just in case. Of course I'd rather have my Sig P220 .45 but, I think I would have a hard time finding ammo for it once I ran out.

[Old Judge Creek]

These arguments never cease to amaze me. Most of the replies are poorly considered claptrap.

What you choose depends entirely on your AO, your training, and what you're specifically responding "to":

Chinese invasion?
Katrina level weather event?
Tsumami?
mega eartquake?
al qaida terrorist attack?
collapse of the economy?
bird flu panic?
asteroid strike?
dawn of the dead?

Each of these most unlikely events should require a carefully considered and separate response... depending on your particular location and environment. One gun will not suffice for all occasions... and all you guys with the Audie Murphy/Alvin York fantasys are in for a huge disappointment in this old man's opinion.

Tellya this though: my shtf guns are almost every one "not" what you might expect...

OTOH: I remain firmly convinced that when most of the selections I've seen posted in this thread have been long since confiscated, I'll still be cookin'...

then again, whatta I know ?

[cmm8946]

I have replied to this thread and was sounded on and belittled for what I said-had my bubble burst, etc. Then again, many have agreed with me. However.....................

Couple of questions: (1) Why would there be so much 7.62x39 ammo just laying around. (2) How many people have ever shot at another human being-much less killed a person. It's not like a deer or rabbit. How many think they could kill. It's like being a millionaire, the second one is easy the first one is the hard one.

I'm glad the Kiwi said he would take a 22mag, perfect go to ground weapon, his bigger stuff would be at his 'prepared' cabin in the boonies.

As the old saying goes 'Be prepared, be very prepared'.

I Corps 3/66-11/67 USMC

[Boogyman]

I have replied to this thread and was sounded on and belittled for what I said-had my bubble burst, etc. Then again, many have agreed with me. However.....................

Couple of questions: (1) Why would there be so much 7.62x39 ammo just laying around. (2) How many people have ever shot at another human being-much less killed a person. It's not like a deer or rabbit. How many think they could kill. It's like being a millionaire, the second one is easy the first one is the hard one.

I'm glad the Kiwi said he would take a 22mag, perfect go to ground weapon, his bigger stuff would be at his 'prepared' cabin in the boonies.

As the old saying goes 'Be prepared, be very prepared'.

I Corps 3/66-11/67 USMC

CMM, I personally didn't mean to belittle you, but yes, I did intend to burst your bubble, if it would save you and your son's lives.

Now I'm suprised to see your sig line, "I Corps, 66/67 USMC" Are you refering to yourself? I also served in I Corp, Quang Tin Prov, Army '72.
If you have fought the VC and NVA on the ground you of all people should know an unsupported, fixed defensive position cannot stand against a well-equipped and supported force.

The idea of a "well-prepared" cabin in the woods is fine as a rendezvous point, but once you gather your gear and make a plan, get out of their as soon as possible. Waiting for detection may be too late. How long do you think a bunch of guys in a cabin with rifles is gonna stand against RPG's, artillery, air-strikes, tanks, etc.?

As for the 7.62x39 ammo laying around, I assumed that would be what the Chinese would be using. I've been informed they are re-equipping with new ammo however. The goal (if you survived thus far) would be to capture enemy supplies and firepower, since you would not have rear echelon support to re-supply you with ammo, food, etc. So you'd be using what is most readily available, which is whatever the invaders are humping.

This is all based on the VERY SLIM chance that you will survive or evade capture long enough to form up with others and organize a small force against the invasion. Only a mobile force using hit-and-run tactics stands a "Chinaman's chance in hell" pardon the pun.

As to your point about how difficult it is to kill for the first time, you're right. A lot of people who post on here are pretty naive when it comes to that, and it's a lot harder than they think. I've seen FNG's all gung-ho about how they're gonna kill a sh*t-load of gooks, then freeze up like a popsicle the first time in a firefight. For myself it took a huge act of willpower and every inch of training to pull the trigger for the first time with a human being in my sights. Being shot at helps tremendously.

Of course all this SHTF stuff is mostly speculation, and most people will either be killed outright when the cities are nuked or captured when the invasion force lands. But something inside us will always try to do the best we can to survive, and to possibly fight back, and some of us will succeed. Just look at the history of invasion forces vs. home-grown guerillas, or even the present day insurgency in Iraq. I personally believe the only way we could have won in Vietnam would have been to bomb every square inch of the country to oblivion, which would have left nothing to fight over. It would have been impossible to search out and destroy every VC and NVA soldier in that vast jungle, as long as they had the will to fight on and kept moving.

Not a damn thing wrong with trying to be as prepared as possible. Ya gotta think beyond the first day, though...

[Boogyman]

These arguments never cease to amaze me. Most of the replies are poorly considered claptrap.

What you choose depends entirely on your AO, your training, and what you're specifically responding "to":

Chinese invasion?
Katrina level weather event?
Tsumami?
mega eartquake?
al qaida terrorist attack?
collapse of the economy?
bird flu panic?
asteroid strike?
dawn of the dead?

Each of these most unlikely events should require a carefully considered and separate response... depending on your particular location and environment. One gun will not suffice for all occasions... and all you guys with the Audie Murphy/Alvin York fantasys are in for a huge disappointment in this old man's opinion.

Tellya this though: my shtf guns are almost every one "not" what you might expect...

OTOH: I remain firmly convinced that when most of the selections I've seen posted in this thread have been long since confiscated, I'll still be cookin'...

then again, whatta I know ?

Judge, if you'd have read the opening post, you'd have seen that this thread IS in response to the SPECIFIC scenario of a Chinese invasion. No matter how likely/unlikely it is, there's nothing wrong with dicussing the possibility, whether, in your infinite wisdom, you think it's "claptrap" or not. How else will the "Audie Murphy/Alvin York" types have a chance to see the error of their ways and learn something useful, thus possibly improving their chances of survival?

You seem to have a pretty high opinion of your own experience and knowledge, perhaps it would be more helpful to share what you think you know, rather than arrogantly scoffing at others opinions and ideas. Just coming in here and posting a bunch of pictures of your big fancy ranch and declaring yourself the wise old cowboy who knows all won't help anybody.

[Old Judge Creek]

Judge, if you'd have read the opening post, you'd have seen that this thread IS in response to the SPECIFIC scenario of a Chinese invasion.

Sorry, I did indeed miss that. I never should have had that bottle of Cabernet last night


No matter how likely/unlikely it is, there's nothing wrong with dicussing the possibility, whether, in your infinite wisdom, you think it's "claptrap" or not. How else will the "Audie Murphy/Alvin York" types have a chance to see the error of their ways and learn something useful, thus possibly improving their chances of survival?


I agree. The true value of any forum is the CIVIL presentation and free and open discussion of diverse points of view, experiences and opinions! Somehow I detect this viewpoint is not extant at The Perfect Union.


You seem to have a pretty high opinion of your own experience and knowledge, perhaps it would be more helpful to share what you think you know, rather than arrogantly scoffing at others opinions and ideas.


Well, I do... as far as it goes.

OTOH: I am for real and don't ever - have never tried to BS anyone in reference to any topic where I have no education or experience... and that covers a LOT of ground.


Just coming in here and posting a bunch of pictures of your big fancy ranch and declaring yourself the wise old cowboy who knows all won't help anybody.

Point made. Although if YOU'D have been paying attention, you'd have seen that I've been a member here since MAY 2003 !!

I worked my hoary old a$$ off for what I have, and to become what I am. The bottom line is I am secure in myself, my family and friends, and my position in life. I don't have anything to prove to anyone, neither do I feel any need for affirmation of my self worth as do so many of you.

Mine was an offer to share and contribute to "the mix" of this board.

[SPARTEN117]

old creek we welcome every one here, however weather you ment or not you came accross as arogant in that last post and i think that is what boogy was refering to. so we welcome your ideas as to how you would deal with this situation?

[Boogyman]

I worked my hoary old a$$ off for what I have, and to become what I am, and I somehow thought I might have something worth contributing to this board. Obviously, you gents already know all there is to know and have more than enough members posting.



No one is disputing that you have much to contribute, or that you are anything else but what you say you are.

It's your style of sharing your knowledge that wears on folks. Whether you intend it or not, you have a habit of speaking down to people. I've been guilty of this myself, and been called on it. I try to be more aware of it these days. ( I said I TRY :rolleyes: )

No matter how old we are or how much experience we have, there's always a lot out there still to learn, and I have learned a lot on this board, from folks of all ages and walks of life. Even Sparten, here! :lol:

I hope you stick around, just try to lighten up a bit, wouldja? ;)

[Old Judge Creek]

...It's your style of sharing your knowledge that wears on folks. Whether you intend it or not, you have a habit of speaking down to people. I've been guilty of this myself, and been called on it. I try to be more aware of it these days. ( I said I TRY :rolleyes: )...
I hope you stick around, just try to lighten up a bit, wouldja? ;)

Alas, although it is not an acceptable excuse, it is a common failing of teachers (and I have been), those who conduct seminars (me again), and stage performers (sigh... guilty, yet again).

Boogy,
I do sincerely appreciate your calling me on the "attitudinal presentation". It wasn't intentional. I'm an administrator on another Board and I'm afraid the sheriff attitude sometimes comes with the territory.

[Boogyman]

Understood! ;)

So I saw in another thread where you stated you prefer lever-guns for SHTF, and I thought it was a pretty good point about them being more unlikely to be "confisticated". I hadn't thought of that.

I have a safe full of guns of all types, and I need another safe real soon. I hope I'll have time to pick the most appropriate ones depending on the situation. It helps to have caches of guns/ammo/food buried in strategic spots too, not only on your own property but in secret locations on public land or wilderness areas.

Call me paranoid but I wish I could afford all that. We can only do what we can, tho. :rolleyes:

[Old Judge Creek]

...
So I saw in another thread where you stated you prefer lever-guns for SHTF, and I thought it was a pretty good point about them being more unlikely to be "confisticated". I hadn't thought of that. ...

Actually, I prefer lever guns for shtf scenarios related to "natural disasters" where one can reasonably expect a return to the pre-event status quo in a few days or weeks. Under those conditions, my intent would be to protect me and mine from looters and those who would want to take what I have or do "bad" to my wife, daughters, or God forbid, my grand daughters.

Given long term civil insurrection, terrorist attack, or foreign invasion, my preferance would be for an M1A. Truth be told, I have no illusions about standing my ground. There's no way one old guy is going to last long against any organized assault.

Last of all, I deem the lowly, most dis-respected, Ruger Mini 30 as a superb choice for this application in urban and most rural situations. The rifle itself will shoot to "minute of bad guy" at 300 yards without a hitch. I've taken a Mini 30 and consistently rolled a waste can across the desert floor from 300 yards and I consider myself a good, but certainly not a "great", marksman. The Mini 30 is NOT a tack driver. It does indeed heat up rapidly when you shoot strings of rapid fire... and as it heats up, accuracy goes south. OTOH: the action's performance is as close flawless as you can get: I do not ever recall as failure to feed, to fire, or extract under a wide variety of hostile environments - in the desert, as I'm sure you know, blowing sand and alkali dust gets into everything.

I also like the 7.62x39. Performance wise, it falls between the 223 and my preferred 308. It's arguably the most common rifle cartridge manufactured in the world today. I think of it as a 30-30 Light. Out to "about" 300 yards is "can" be effective, if you understand the round and do your part. Yes, I agree: 300 yards is stretching both rounds, but do able. Regardless, I can hump a lot more 7.62x39 for the same mass as I can 308... and it's a lot cheaper to stockpile, too.

Last of all, I suggest you take a hard look at what the duly constitiuted authority in and around New Orleans did...... and got completely away with. Not a person is in jail for having broken the civil rights of any person, even though a federal court ruled they had to return the illegally confiscated guns (funny though, how many were "lost" and thus unreturnable.). The state of Louisiana has since passed laws that allow local law enforcement to LEGALLY do in the future what they did in New Orleans following katrina, but that's a Second Amendment issue and fodder for another thread.

"Which shtf weapon ?" is a very simple question with extremely complex answers.

[ryan_kalani]

Nice run down OJC! :)

[JimS]

Won't need one - the UN will take care of everything.:lol: :D :lol:

Had not given it much thought. Will probably grab what I can get my hands on and move my family as far and quickly as possible away from the enemy (if possible).

Although, I agree the scenario is unlikely - it never hurts to consider what one would do under these types of circumstances. Perhaps we should have thread on appropriate preparation for more isolated events (such as earthquakes, hurricanes, isolated but spread out terror attacks) that result in looting and killing by our own people and sometimes over zealous actions by the civil authorities.

I am a tender tender tender foot when it comes to invasion scenarios.

[jumpluff]

Yeah Jim....I am with you....I will put my trust and the lives of me and my loved ones in the loving hands of the boys with the blue helmets! :lol:

I guess I don't need my Mini-14 anymore...anybody willing to give it a good home???? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Texas T]

I guess I don't need my Mini-14 anymore...anybody willing to give it a good home???? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: First person to raise their hand gets a free Mini!

[Arnold Horshack] Ooo! Ooo! Ooo![/Arnold Horshack] http://glocktalk.com/images/smilies/wavey%5B1%5D.gif

[gunrun45]

Yeah Jim....I am with you....I will put my trust and the lives of me and my loved ones in the loving hands of the boys with the blue helmets! :lol:

I guess I don't need my Mini-14 anymore...anybody willing to give it a good home???? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Me! Me! Me! I promise to keep it nice and warm with plenty of ammo put through it regularly!:D

[gossman]

I don't care much for SHTF scenarios but they are something to take into account. It doesn't always mean that the Canadians are poised to roll across the border ( it's a joke, please no complaints) but there have been times that we are left to our own when the goverment is unable to properly respond. We need to have bugout kits, trauma reducing kits and trauma inducing kits available. At the last NTI, the idea was how to survive a regional catastrophy. We had military leaders who were sent to New Orleans and saw the carnage and animal behaviors that went on when there was no sembalance of law. They spoke of fresh water needs and such but one thing that they did mention was that the sight of an AK shouted to them as bad guy. Not to take anyting away, but OJC has a point about lever guns and the mini isn't a bad choice either. I have an AR in my gun safe, it will go, but so will my shotgun, .22, and handguns. The main thing is to react and get out before you get stuck. Know the state roads, stay off of the freeway system. Have a plan, know how to text message. It still worked when the cell phone system was down. Have a place for your family to meet. Are your parents or family in a nursing home? Are they in your plans? Do you have a way to survive for a month? Can you live rustic for that time? Can you meet your physical needs and those of your family for an extended length of time? Is there a place that you know where you can get to, and your family members also can get to? I feel that most of us are short of meeting the requirements of surviving a catastophic event. My hats off to Old Judge Creek, he has always been a wealth of information as long as I have been here.

[Old Judge Creek]

... Old Judge Creek, he has always been a wealth of information as long as I have been here.

Gossman, thank you for your generous words.

[josh]

Josh will be lying at the bottom of the foxhole shaking with a pants-load of crap.

Sparten will be cursing and fumbling with the knobs on his weapon, arguing about which cartridge is best for SHTF.

I'll be wearing a clothes-pin on my nose, trying to shove one of Sparten's .308 mags into my empty AK, and looking for a shovel to pick up and swing at the thousands of Chinese over-running us.

Reality bites. :lol:

Heck I missed this. Good point. If the time were to come I hope I have the good sense to hide in a hole.

[rick12337]

hmm well this is what i got 2 moss 500s ,mini 14,cx4 storm in .40,and a marlin model 60 .22, shotguns would def be easy to find ammo for but the .40 might be as well isnt it what the police use? plus .223 plnty of that round so mini aint out of it ether 22lr i have always like the argument of being able to carry many many rounds and if u have to eat what u kill 22lr would be ideal far as on hand ammo

[chewybaca67]

ONLY TWO?!?!?!?!?!:blink: Okay, I'll play.
I'd take my Bushmaster with a Bushnell EOTECH copy sight, 10 30 rnd. mags loaded with my homebrewed rem 55 grain H.P.s. Since I can only take one handgun now......hmmmm. It would have to be my Glock-35 with, alltogether, 18-15rnd. mags and my new Gen. Lonewolf 5" 357 sig barrel, just in case I run across any o' that ammo, which is issued to NM state police in fact. Now, if I couldn't take any of those....I'd get one of them FX-big person suits and wear a mask of my ex-wife. That would even scare escaped convicts away!!! Hey! Wait a minute!! I could hide all that hardware inside the suit huh? Cool. I'm good to go. Unless it's zombie invasion, then no fat suit. They'd be even madder at me for false advertising!:huh:

On another note, I like gossman's point of view. Where I spent much of my youth, on a Reservation in rural New Mexico and Arizona, we had to have preparations like that because we very likely needed them. Even water, we had to bring water in. People are sheep when they assume that the local Gov. will pat their hand in face of a maj. catastrophe. But then again, chance favors the prepared.

[Zen900]

I already have my two in my possession. I'd take any semi-auto 9mm pistol and my SKS. Why get fancy? I'd probably just take one gun though. Guns get heavy after you carry one a few miles. Besides, I don't think I could hold out very long without cable tv.

[Mike 56]

That's why i cancelled cable and got a dish. :lol: Mike

[Zen900]

Won't need one - the UN will take care of everything.:lol: :D :lol:

Had not given it much thought. Will probably grab what I can get my hands on and move my family as far and quickly as possible away from the enemy (if possible).

Although, I agree the scenario is unlikely - it never hurts to consider what one would do under these types of circumstances. Perhaps we should have thread on appropriate preparation for more isolated events (such as earthquakes, hurricanes, isolated but spread out terror attacks) that result in looting and killing by our own people and sometimes over zealous actions by the civil authorities.

I am a tender tender tender foot when it comes to invasion scenarios.

Indian wars lasted well over 100 years in the U.S. 1775 Revolutionary War. The Brits invaded in 1812. The North invaded the South in 1861. Custers whole army was wiped out in 1878. Ponco Villa invaded around 1903 from Mexico. 1941 Japan invaded Hawaii. Japan invaded Aleutians briefly.about that time. Very large riots in Los Angelos in 1967. The Manson Family killed 35 people in the late 1960s from Kentucky to California including a movie star trying to start a race war. Los Angelos riots again in 1990s. Then there's 9-11-01. Americans finally got the message after 9-11-01. There are many other examples of warlike occurances and one war on American soil that I'm leaving out.Wonder what the next attack on the continental US will be like?

[BeachinBeemer]

All this speculation on SHTF is nice but what is more realistic is what happened in New Orleans, Ruby Ridge, change in politics. Not to induce any flamming but what would you really do it the feds were at your door demanding your weapons-backed up by the troops, etc. Just curious

[gossman]

turn in the guns. Really. very few people are going to give up life because of gun ownership. I wouldn't. That is a hill I refuse to die on. We could not stand up to an Army like Red Dawn. I no wimp or puss but if it came down to it, dying for some metal seem's silly. I am called to die for Christ, not the stuff in my gun closet. I will fight by legal means, I am life member of the NRA. Join it if you want the message to get across.

[JimS]

Indian wars lasted well over 100 years in the U.S. 1775 Revolutionary War. The Brits invaded in 1812. The North invaded the South in 1861. Custers whole army was wiped out in 1878. Ponco Villa invaded around 1903 from Mexico. 1941 Japan invaded Hawaii. Japan invaded Aleutians briefly.about that time. Very large riots in Los Angelos in 1967. The Manson Family killed 35 people in the late 1960s from Kentucky to California including a movie star trying to start a race war. Los Angelos riots again in 1990s. Then there's 9-11-01. Americans finally got the message after 9-11-01. There are many other examples of warlike occurances and one war on American soil that I'm leaving out.Wonder what the next attack on the continental US will be like?


MINE WAS A JOKE EXCEPT FOR HAVING NOT GIVEN IT MUCH THOUGHT. SORRY IF I TOUCHED A NERVE, THAT WAS NOT MY INTENT. I HAVE 4 SHOTGUNS, 1 - .30-06, 3 - .22 RIFLES, 1 - 17 HMR, A 357 MAGNUM, 44 BLACK POWDER AND A 22/22MAG PISTOL. NOT AS MANY GUNS AS OTHERS I REALIZE. IF I HAD TO PICK JUST 2 AND ONLY 2 - FROM MY STASH I WOULD OPT FOR MY 22 SEMI-AUTO RIFLE and PROBABLY MY 20 GAUGE 870 REMINGTON SPECIAL.

I am not real concerned about a China invasion - I am a whole lot more concerned with internal rioting and mass panic due to natural disasters and/or additional terror attacks (of which I think the next ones will likely be targeted at our places of play, worship or worse yet our schools - domestic or terror grown).

Anyway, please accept my apology. Again the UN thing was sarcasm and a joke.

[Zen900]

MINE WAS A JOKE EXCEPT FOR HAVING NOT GIVEN IT MUCH THOUGHT. SORRY IF I TOUCHED A NERVE,

No nerve touched. I tried to list from memory every war or invasion etc on our soil and I left a whole war out. I know it's name but does anybody care to guess? Hint it was on our soil. It's our only war with the word "and" in it. Heck, I left out many many localized battles and disturbances like you discussed. After I started listing stuff I found myself having to leave out incidences. The U.S. has had many many attacks, and civil breakdowns. We are mislead about our safety from the first grade onwards. Not because of political reasons but because we had some long prosperous periods of history that lulled us into a false sense of safety.

We are in another age now.

[special poop]

what the heck is going in with this board? sounds like general chit chat with slightly more focus.

[Zen900]

what the heck is going in with this board? sounds like general chit chat with slightly more focus.

It's not our job to entertain you. If you like; start your own thread.

[Old Judge Creek]

All this speculation on SHTF is nice but what is more realistic is what happened in New Orleans, Ruby Ridge, change in politics. Not to induce any flamming but what would you really do it the feds were at your door demanding your weapons-backed up by the troops, etc. Just curious

Gossman was 100% correct in his reply. Most reasonably intelligent folks would/will hand over their guns. Them that would not...... well, there's always the Darwin Awards :rolleyes:

BUT... would a prudent survivalist have a few "back-up" guns stored elsewhere ?
Perhaps as a minimum, a 10/22 and a 38 snubby and some ammo ???? :blink:

"Just in case" ?

Probably not. :wacko:

No... in fact, now that I reflect upon it, I'm sure we'd all either fight to certain death to keep our guns... or just hand over everything we had.

Yup! ... gotta be one or the other ... no middle ground here.

[Libertysson]

French and Indian War?

[Drakejake]

If I were defending myself within my house, I suppose I would grab a FAL loaded with a 30 round mag because of its firepower and effectiveness over distances. If I were on the run, I would probably pick up the DPMS Lite (5.7 pounds empty) because of its portability, light aluminum mags, and light rounds. My second choice would be my Mini 14 with its folding Butler Creek stock. I would take one of these to the woods with a Smith and Wesson 2206 .22 pistol. Although heavy, it is accurate and reliable.

Drakejake

[brassdog]

It always interesting to see what folks choose. As for me, I would use my trusty old Savage 340 in 30-30, a Mossberg 500 in 12 gauge plus the glock 19 strapped to my hip. It's what I use the most when I go hunting and I know they will work. I don't really get to see very many FALS, AK's or M-60's whatnot in the field. I can't see wasting that much ammo when you know you're in for the long haul and I know that friendly forces are not going to be very charitable with their ammo either.
Don't get me wrong, I like the black rifles, heck I even have an AR-15 heavy barrel carbine but I'll be running not gunning since I'm aiming to stay alive long enough to keep my family out of harm's way.

Thanks,
Brass:)

[Nobody]

Gossman was 100% correct in his reply. Most reasonably intelligent folks would/will hand over their guns. Them that would not...... well, there's always the Darwin Awards :rolleyes:

BUT... would a prudent survivalist have a few "back-up" guns stored elsewhere ?
Perhaps as a minimum, a 10/22 and a 38 snubby and some ammo ???? :blink:

"Just in case" ?

Probably not. :wacko:

No... in fact, now that I reflect upon it, I'm sure we'd all either fight to certain death to keep our guns... or just hand over everything we had.

Yup! ... gotta be one or the other ... no middle ground here.

Your desires to see your families live in such a world is very reprehensible. Your choices not to sacrifice yourselves and your families in the cause of liberty shows that you do not fully appreciate the ideals of this country for which the Founding Fathers risked all that they had. And what does this say to the men and women who risk their lives in our Armed Forces?

As for myself, I don't want to live in the society that comes after the confiscation of all guns. History has shown that oppression and often genocide soon follow. I'll accept my Darwin award postumously, knowing that you who have chosen not to fight will eventually come to regret it. As the saying goes, "A coward dies a thousand deaths. A hero dies but once."

[Nobody]

And now to the question at hand.

In the city, my SHTF rifle is the Mini-14 with CM&T folding stock, flash suppressor, factory mags (20-rds and 30-rds), Surefire weaponlight, and Federal Tactical Bonded 62gr ammo.

The Mini-14 with the folding stock and 20-rd magazine is more compact than other conventional .223 rifle, bullpups excepted. This weapon is easy to conceal yet packs plenty of firepower. With the bonded ammo, it can penetrate cars with ease.

In the country, the DS Arms SA-58 with heavy floating barrel, 4 3/4 lb. trigger, and 20-rd magazines. I haven't bought a scope for this rifle as yet, because I plan to use it in highpower competition with iron sights only. However, it does have a piccatiny 1913 rail, so it is ready. Since I live in the city, I don't plan on using it for SHTF, but the Mini-14's Leupold 6X42 scope could be adapted in pinch.

[bubbagump]

I'd grab my AK, Norinco 98 shotgun and my Firestar in .40 S&W. oops that was three. In second thought, if it's the chinese, I might think about grabbin my PA-63 also.
:rapid:

[buzter]

Probably yugo underfolder or rom. side folder. Depends. maybe ar-15.

[uncle jerky]

Hi point 45 acp pistol and SKS rifle w/30 round clip(or Ruger Mini 14 w/20 rounder).

[rick12337]

when it comes down to it ill use whatver i may get my hands on i dont care if its a broom handle nail gun hachet anythings better then nuthing. im also a beliver i evyone shuld have at least a pocket knife on them all times

[BlenderWizard]

forget the hatchet and get a FUBAR
http://www.stanleytools.com/catalog_images/mid_res/55-099_mid_res.jpg

Can you imagine what that would do to someone's nuts?

[rick12337]

:o is all im gonna say

[gunrun45]

Blender: Does that thing say Stanley on it??!! I've never seen one before. Where can I get one!!!

[Oswald2001]

If I'm gonna be moving around a lot I would grab my Mini-14 with factory folding stock and a .308 Galil ARM.

If I'm gonna be pretty much stationary I would grab a 5.56 Galil ARM and a .308 Galil ARM.

[Boogyman]

Aaahh! What a bunch of sissies! :lol:

Look what Rambo did with just a knife and an old tarp!

(just kidding!) :lol: ;)

[H2O MAN]

SHTF ~ what's your idea of the perfect shtf weapons combo?

Hybrid MK14 SEI and G21

or

ArmaLite AR-10A4 and G21

[rick12337]

the mini gun kit for 2x 10/22s on a swivel base in back of a pikcup hooked up to an electric drill :blink: :blink:

[Risasi]

Wow, you guys are silly. IF the Chinese invaded us they would probably float some boats up to our shores first, then soften our major cities with nukes. Or try to take over from within. And they would likely have some help, i.e. a joint venture with the Russia, Iran, or perhaps some sort of unionized Europe. More likely though if they want to flex muscle they'll fight some proxy war with us, fighting over a smaller country like Taiwan or Pakistan. They have been gearing up. But I get it, it's fun to fantasize.

Personally I'll take 1911 design with both a .45 and .22 upper. And both will have suppressors. It doesn't do you guys any good to get in a firefight or hunt game if 15 minutes from then you are running because they triangulated your previous fire. The Chinese are pretty darn modern now. I'm sure they have considered us guys already. They would not invade without having a contingency plan.

My own take, any kind of armed response by the citizenry would be guerilla tactics. This would include targeting commanding officers, their assistants...their friends and family, their girlfriends. The only way you would run these guys off is to hit them where it really hurts. And you can't rely upon small arms to do this. The best weapon you could use would be your mind. Be innovative.

[ryan_kalani]

Here's the begining of my 2nd attempt at the perfect BOB.....
http://www.jdmpimp.com/TEMP/IMG_9695.jpg

- Bates Ultra Lite Boots
- 5.11 OD Nylon Pants
- 5.11 Black Nylon Long Sleeve Shirt
- Glock 22 with Serpa Holster on Pack
- Eberlstock Gunslinger Pack
- AR15 with RRA Midlength Chrome Lined Upper

I will pull all the goodies out soon to show what I have inside. Time for bed though.[/quote]
http://www.jdmpimp.com/TEMP/IMG_9701.JPG

http://www.jdmpimp.com/TEMP/IMG_9703.JPG

Eberlestock Gunslinger Pack[/*]
2 - 70 oz Camelbaks(Inside Pack)[/*]
Eureka Backcounty 2 Tent[/*]
2 - 3.5oz Packs of Beef Jerky[/*]
Mountain House Flameless Oven Kit[/*]
5 - 20oz Mountain House Meals[/*]
4 - Cliff Bars[/*]
Spam[/*]
5 - Packs of Gatorade(Make 32oz Each)[/*]
30 - Katadyn Water Purification Tablets[/*]
Deordorant[/*]
9 Hour Candles[/*]
Stormproof Matches[/*]
Multi-tool[/*]
Surefire G2[/*]
Zip Lock Bags[/*]
Duct Tape[/*]
Wiley X Glasses/Goggles[/*]
Whislte[/*]
Tooth brush / tooth paste[/*]
Carmex Lip Balm[/*]
50 feet of 550 Cord[/*]
2 Pair of underwear / socks / moisture wicking under shirts[/*]
Glock 22[/*]
AR-15[/*]
COMING SOON - Snugpak Elite 2 or 3 Sleeping bag[/*]

As far as ammo goes I will have mags and 150 rounds of ammo for the AR with mags and 75 rounds of ammo for the G22. I have a Recon Commando Vest for this that is not pictured. I intend to conceal this with a light track jacket.

Any suggestions? I am always looking for those to make my BOB better.

[BlenderWizard]

forget the hatchet and get a FUBAR
http://www.stanleytools.com/catalog_images/mid_res/55-099_mid_res.jpg

Can you imagine what that would do to someone's nuts?


A buddy of mine got married this past Saturday, and I gave him one as a bachelor party present.

[gunrun45]

A buddy of mine got married this past Saturday, and I gave him one as a bachelor party present.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Now that's a good gift.

[rick12337]

sence were talking about shtf i was curius how many of you would barter ammo for cigs or what not?

[TDSP]

In real SHTF, I think you would be unlikely to run out of ammo for your main rifle before you had an opportunity to get a resupply from an enemy, assuming you were careful and started properly equiped. I'd think that finding a way to feed yourself and keep hydrated would be harder.

I'd likely have my yugo SKS (common ammo in the states) till I was forced by my lack of ammo to pick up a chineese rifle and ammo along with something like a .22 LR accurate pistol/small rifle that I could build a silencer for with my equipment (hey, SHTF, so I don't think I'll get arrested for silencing a .22 to feed myself with).

[jumpluff]

sence were talking about shtf i was curius how many of you would barter ammo for cigs or what not?

I like bullets....and strongly dislike cigarettes....I would gladly barter any cigarettes I managed to get my hands on.....for some nice .223 ammo! :lol:

[ryan_kalani]

In real SHTF, I think you would be unlikely to run out of ammo for your main rifle before you had an opportunity to get a resupply from an enemy or fallen citizen.
That is why I would stick with a rifle in .223/5.56 and a sidearm in a common hand gun caliber(9mm, 40, 45). I will use either my AR or Mini-14 and a Glock 22(40cal).

[rick12337]

i myself am not adicted use cigs and such i was just stating maybe there worth for barter with others but i think a small 22lr be almost a necsity for shtf on the go whos gonna kill a deer for food when sumthing small like squrrels rabits seem more sensble packable

[TDSP]

That is why I would stick with a rifle in .223/5.56 and a sidearm in a common hand gun caliber(9mm, 40, 45). I will use either my AR or Mini-14 and a Glock 22(40cal).

Yeah, and I can tell you that around here, AK's and SKSes are extremely common ;) It might be anecdotal, but nobody could keep 7.62x39 in stock for about 8 months here because people kept buying it up for coyotes, etc. If I go across the river (to Missouri), they are even more common because people hunt deer with em.

I just haven't seen many .223 rifles that are as indestructable as my SKS. I know I'm sacrificing ammo weight and accuracy, but I'd rather have a working/easily fixed arm than a non-working one. :o

[ryan_kalani]

Yeah, and I can tell you that around here, AK's and SKSes are extremely common ;) It might be anecdotal, but nobody could keep 7.62x39 in stock for about 8 months here because people kept buying it up for coyotes, etc. If I go across the river (to Missouri), they are even more common because people hunt deer with em.

I just haven't seen many .223 rifles that are as indestructable as my SKS. I know I'm sacrificing ammo weight and accuracy, but I'd rather have a working/easily fixed arm than a non-working one. :o
I just mentioned .223/5.56 for me cuz there is more of that around my area and that is what the military will be carrying should they move in during SHTF. If there is more 7.62X39 where you are, then stick with that.

[TwinRugers]

Fighting things legally hardly work here.

I wouldn't give up my only way to fight back to try and fight it out legally. Granted I do have guns that could be stashed and they couldn't find any paperwork on it, but why only keep those guns?

Call me unreasonable, but atleast call me principled as well.

[run8]

I have bad back, too much stuff to carry, so I'll just take my chances. You've all heard of canabilism right? Save me a thigh :-)

Well being such as I"m poor at the moment (ie; out of work) I will stick with my Mini-14 and P22 (shoot out the bad guys eyes if they get close enough). hehe

Here's the begining of my 2nd attempt at the perfect
As far as ammo goes I will have mags and 150 rounds of ammo for the AR with mags and 75 rounds of ammo for the G22. I have a Recon Commando Vest for this that is not pictured. I intend to conceal this with a light track jacket.

Any suggestions? I am always looking for those to make my BOB better.

[Tunug]

Not to be a pessimist, but the Chinese are a country with a population of 1.3 BILLION people. Their army alone is probably bigger than the MAYBE 15 million we could muster.

reminds me of this quote

"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." Admiral Yamamoto - 1941

too bad that was over 60 years ago, and today most americans are afraid of guns

[BlenderWizard]

too bad that was over 60 years ago, and today most americans are afraid of guns


I've got enough to go around;)

[Holliday]

As far as ammo goes I will have mags and 150 rounds of ammo for the AR with mags and 75 rounds of ammo for the G22. I have a Recon Commando Vest for this that is not pictured. I intend to conceal this with a light track jacket.

Any suggestions? I am always looking for those to make my BOB better.

i like it. it actually makes me want to make one of my own.

[Coyote]

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b36/larryschwager/DSCF0075.jpg

http://www.glock.com/g19.jpgGlock 40 cal.

[Holliday]

how do you like the mini y comp muzzle break?

i have it also.

[Coyote]

how do you like the mini y comp muzzle break?

i have it also.

Very loud for others..but controls the movement of the weapon
with pleasurable recoil...

[buzter]

I've got enough to go around;)
I've got enough for everyone on my street. I'm sure they do too. alot of rednecks around these parts.

[ryan_kalani]

i like it. it actually makes me want to make one of my own.
Thanks man!

[Powerkicker]

My go to gun is my big gun, my M14;

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/medium/8797M14_.JPG

[brotherzoo]

I'll just go with my real world setup, which is my Mini-14 all weather Ranch Rifle with my shoulder bag of 6 x 40rd PMI mags and my ParaP14 kit with stainless Colt Commander slide and my 8 mag pouch of factory Para Ord mags in it...plus some loose boxes of ammo in a pack.

Looking to add a 5.5x50mm ACOG to my Mini, but that's a serious bugetary constraint...have to live with the good old 3-9 x 40mm with iron sights for backup for now.

Fantasy-wise I might move up to an M1A, but they're so damn heavy, and so is their 7.62 ammo. Come SHTF I'd rather the volume of 5.56 I can carry in a serious situation, and my Mini with a synthetic stock weighs next to nothing. Then more food and water can come too.

[brotherzoo]

...and at least a carton of smokes. I myself am an addict...y'erd?

[BlenderWizard]

Y'erd? WTF is that?

[craig]

I believe it means you heard

[brotherzoo]

Louisiana (Nawlins...New Orleans more specifically) slang for "you heard". I'm sure your Katrina Survivor Moderator knows it. In use it's more of an affirmation than an actual request for confirmation that you "heard" what I "said"...or in this case, read what I typed.

[brotherzoo]

LOVE your signature btw.

[Marlin 45 carbine]

got a lot of response but I didn't see this combo, my Marlin camp carbine 9 and S&W 915 (a compact 59 series, magazines swap) and a glock fighting knife. I would hope to be teamed with buddys that had longer range (308 - '06 - Mini-30, and so on scoped) and another with a 12 ga. carrying 9mm pistols.

[Marlin 45 carbine]

Tweezers, needle, thread, gauze, hydrogen peroxide, isopropyl alcohol, soap, toothbrush, toilet paper, q tips, batteries, flashlight, radio, compass, matches, candle, knife, pliers, screwdriver, can opener (the tiny kind), cup, spoon, bandana, extra socks, twine, plastic bags (all sizes), rope, yeah, that's just a start. Plus individual needs like prescriptions, extra glasses, etc.

Even a large backpack can fill up and get heavy in a hurry, so it makes sense to think about this in advance and pare down.

I think that a good plan would be a small squad-sized group planned in advance, an invasion would not happen overnight. include battle dressings and other items for a medical kit. in cold weather additonal clothing and shelter items if in the boonies will be required also.

[Rugermann]

Chinese invasion scenario-My AK-47 and one of my semi-auto .22 lr's(rifle).

Real world scenario?? SOCOM 16 and MINI-14 ranch rifle.

[timlt]

Chinese invasion scenario-My AK-47 and one of my semi-auto .22 lr's(rifle).

Real world scenario?? SOCOM 16 and MINI-14 ranch rifle.

Can't remember if I already replied on this thread, and too lazy to check. Must be getting old. :lol:

Anyway, for me: Mini-14 or AR, and 10-22 for backup, with my CZ SP-01 9mm (with the 19rd mags) as a sidearm. SOG Flash II tactical folder knife if concealment is needed (easier to conceal if we end up with some sort of martial law-drive police state, where weapons are "banned" for good guys while the bad guys run wild), or if not, SOG tiger shark knife. And finally, my telescoping police baton.

[Der Verge]

Chinese invasion scenario-My AK-47 and one of my semi-auto .22 lr's(rifle).

Real world scenario?? SOCOM 16 and MINI-14 ranch rifle.

I would want one of those 22lr gattling guns. High rate of fire, highly devastating, cheap as hell to shoot ONE BILLION Chinese with.

[rsidner]

Only two?

Long Arm:
AR-15 10.5" SBR with Eotech and BUIS. Combined with its indestructible ACE SOCOM stock makes it a great long term weapon.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/rsidner/IMG_0078.jpg

Side Arm:
Glock 19 (which I'm working on stardizing to) Lots of spare mags, 9mm cheap to stock pile, cheap frame rebuild kits, and tons of other accessories. With factory ammo, Glocks can run ten thousand rounds without cleaning and hundreds of thousands of rounds before needing anything more than cleaning.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/rsidner/IMG_0001.jpg
I have it with me at all times.

For a trunk/get home rifle, I trust that task to my Mini-14. I want something that will be ultimately reliable and something I know will go bang if it needs to come out. I'm working on getting some stuff for it and will post pics of it when it is finished.

Past that, I have another AR-15 16", 2x 870 12 ga.'s, a Mosin M44, a Ruger P89, and a Savage .22 which will soon be retired and replaced with a Ruger 10/22. I'll also be getting a couple more G19's, spare parts for them and the AR's, and ammo ammo ammo!

[brotherzoo]

Ammo is definitely key. My last "almost new pistol" purchase went to a brick of ammo instead...and since New Years I've taken smokes off my list. Much to my wife's delight.

[Risasi]

Wow, this thread is still going?

I guess so, I just got Email notification telling me so.

I must admit though it is funny this notification came up now. I'm in the process of rethinking my inventory. I'm clearing all my stuff out. I just got way too many different types of guns.


I've decided I'm going to sell probably 3/4th of what I have (honestly I don't know what I have any more, it's spread out all over the place, I'm sure there is a redneck joke in there somewhere <_< ).

Maybe I'll start a "help me decide what goes into my armory" thread...

[Boogyman]

Wow, this thread is still going?

I guess so, I just got Email notification telling me so.

I must admit though it is funny this notification came up now. I'm in the process of rethinking my inventory. I'm clearing all my stuff out. I just got way too many different types of guns.


I've decided I'm going to sell probably 3/4th of what I have (honestly I don't know what I have any more, it's spread out all over the place, I'm sure there is a redneck joke in there somewhere <_< ).

Maybe I'll start a "help me decide what goes into my armory" thread...
Here's an idea... post a list of all your guns, and I'll advise you as to which ones you should keep, and which ones you should sell to me... :lol:

[timlt]

Rsidner, nice pics, nice selection of tactical choices! Not that you need my approval, but I heartily approve of all your choices (even though I personally don't like the feel of a Glock in my hand, I know it's a great choice!). And your selection of rifles/shotgun is hard to find fault with as well.

Question on the Glock. It's understood that you don't HAVE to clean it for a long time, but I'm curious. How many rounds have you found that you can fire through it before your accuracy starts to degrade noticeably?

And a second question about 9mm generally (since I, like you, have standardized on 9mm for a sidearm, I'm interested in this subject). What ammo family, or specific ammo loading, do you expect you would use in your sidearm in a SHTF situation? To be honest, I'm not sure what I'd use yet, but it would probably be something by one of these 3 companies that make heavy duty loads for 9mm: Cor Bon, Buffalo Bore, or DoubleTap Ammo. If further testing establishes that DoubleTap's hot 147gr 9mm with the Gold Dot bullets will expand reliably, I might use that, because in an urban combat situation, I might actually WANT a bigger bullet with more penetration than I would for just normal inside-the-home defense.

[Risasi]

Boogyman,

I might just have to, problem is I can't remember what I have anymore.

But I won't do it here, lest I cause thread drift. Besides I'm a bit busy at work today. I'll post later once I do an inventory. More important is what I will purchase. However, like I said I'll save that for a different thread.

[rsidner]

Rsidner, nice pics, nice selection of tactical choices! Not that you need my approval, but I heartily approve of all your choices (even though I personally don't like the feel of a Glock in my hand, I know it's a great choice!). And your selection of rifles/shotgun is hard to find fault with as well.

Question on the Glock. It's understood that you don't HAVE to clean it for a long time, but I'm curious. How many rounds have you found that you can fire through it before your accuracy starts to degrade noticeably?

And a second question about 9mm generally (since I, like you, have standardized on 9mm for a sidearm, I'm interested in this subject). What ammo family, or specific ammo loading, do you expect you would use in your sidearm in a SHTF situation? To be honest, I'm not sure what I'd use yet, but it would probably be something by one of these 3 companies that make heavy duty loads for 9mm: Cor Bon, Buffalo Bore, or DoubleTap Ammo. If further testing establishes that DoubleTap's hot 147gr 9mm with the Gold Dot bullets will expand reliably, I might use that, because in an urban combat situation, I might actually WANT a bigger bullet with more penetration than I would for just normal inside-the-home defense.

Well I've only had the time to run 200 rounds through my glock so far. However, the infamous Bigbore Torture test shows a G21 with around 15,000 rounds through it with no cleaning and it doesn't seem to have lost any notable accuracy. That's right...fifteen thousand.

As far as ammo for SHTF, I'm going to collect around 300 rounds of Speer Golddot (because it runs great for me and my experiences have been 100%) and past that, I'm going to stock pile a few thousand rounds of plain-jane winchester white box 115 grain FMJ. I know it's not the best for protection but if I go though 300 rounds of good JHP, there's a good chance that I'll need a LOT of ammo and considering that it is a sidearm, in a SHTF situation it will be a backup to a longarm. In all actuality, FMJ may not be a bad thing due to its higher penetration, especially since if I've all ready gone through 300 rounds of Speer in my sidearm, there's a good chance that I'm in escalated combat and chances are, over penetration will cease to be an issue. I hope you get what I'm saying.

This is similar to how my main ammo for my AR's will start out as XM855 steel core penetrator and Winchester .223. Both of these will be nice hot, fragmenting rounds. Well I can't afford that much of it (I have 1000 rounds of the XM855 and will be getting back into stocking up the WWB when I can afford to) so my gross stock pile of ammo will consist of a large amount of Wolf 55 grain .223 FMJ. It's not quite as good as the other two picks for my ammo but it is inexpensive and I can stockpile twice as much of it for the price. I hope to get around 20k-30k rounds of it and I'll be satisfied. I haven't seen any tests to confirm it but the Wolf probably won't be the most consistently fragmenting round BUT it will get the job done. Since I also plan on stocking up on plenty of spare parts for my AR's, I won't be worried about the "extra wear" to things like the extractor. Given the fact that mil-spec AR's (which both of mine are) are designed and tested to run upwards of 500,000 rounds through them before needing more than a cleaning, even if Wolf ammo is TWICE as hard on your gun than brass cased ammo, that's still 250,000 rounds. I like shooting but if someone just gave me 250,000 rounds of Wolf, I just don't know if I'd be able to get rid of all of it...I'd sure try though!

As far as the 9mm FMJ, don't be fooled. A lot of people might say things like "Well if it doesn't expand then it will zing right through someone!" Yeah? So what's the problem? If you shoot someone in the heart or the head with FMJ, are they going to die any less? If you zing a round of FMJ through someone's lungs, kidneys, liver, stomach, intestines, throat, spine, pelvis, bladder, or appendix, they're either going to slow down a LOT or just lay down and stop fighting. JHP is great to avoid over penetration and to cause a little bigger of a wound but when it comes to several thousand rounds of ammo to stock pile, you'll save a lot of money by just getting FMJ and in extended combat, you won't notice a lot of difference if you land in the head and torso.

[cne411]

I have to agree with rsidner. The AR 15 SBR would also be my go to weapon. I have 300 rounds of .223 TAP, 2k of xm193, 1.5k of q3131 and 1k of m855 here. Which is way more than I can carry. No batteries, no flash and very little so