noise reducer?

[FatDaddy]

Is any noise reduction device that would fit a threaded barrel considered a silencer or is there a certain level of reduction that would kick such a device into a silencer category? Simply put, is any reduction in muzzle blast by a device considered a silencer?

[Boogyman]

That's a good question that I too, would like to know the answer to.

I think it may have to do with by how many decibels does a device reduce noise. To devise the legality of a device they first measure the normal report, then measure it with the device attached, and see if it falls within a set criteria to determine whether it is a silencer or not.

When I was a kid growing up on my Dad's truck farm (produce), we didn't have money for store-bought meat so we poached a deer occasionally. One method was using a .22 rifle (head-shot) with a rubber baby-bottle nipple over the end of the barrel. You'd be suprised how much it reduced the noise. I always wondered what would happen if I got caught. Besides the poaching fine, could they arrest me for having an illegal baby-bottle nipple? :wacko:

[LonePathfinder]

I'm goig to say yes.

Even the Nam erra XM177s or whatever that had the colt "moderators" which only reduced the carbines blast/noise to rifle levels are considered suppressors by the ATF.

Anything that alters the report of the weapon WILL be considered a suppressor by the ATF.

Of course would you expect more from the just an honorable ATF?-_-

[gunrun45]

Dito for LonePathfinder. The definition is any device that reduces the sound signature of a firearm (CA standards). Pretty broad.

[Metalhead]

Do snap caps qualify?:lol:

[LonePathfinder]

Never know on the snap caps....a shoestring is a NFA item now, you can make a gun full auto with it according to the atf...:wacko:

[gunrun45]

Lonepathfinder: Joking right??? You never know so I have to ask. My nieve button is broken today.

[surbat6]

As posted already, any device attached to the gun which reduces the Db level (even slightly) is a suppressor in the eyes of the feds. If you're looking for a way to reduce disturbing the neighbors while shooting, it's perfectly legal and fairly simple to build a big insulated box to shoot through at your range. That will dampen much of the noise, and since it's not attached, it's not a suppressor, just a noise baffle.

[jwp]

atf did declare a shoestring 14" long with 2 loops a machine gun - originally used on an m1 garand to bumpfire it

afaik it was laughed out of court by the judge when he asked the atf witness something to the effect "you mean like my shoestrings?"

atfers are not too bright

[billdeserthills]

If you just want to make less noise you could buy or load some sub-sonic ammo.

[FatDaddy]

If you just want to make less noise you could buy or load some sub-sonic ammo.

True, the quietest ammo I've ever shot was some 147gr subsonic loads for the 9mm. Sounds more like a loud potato gun. THOOMP!

[wlcharm]

Hastings® "Metro" Barrel Extension the silencer that is not a silencer!!!!!

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0005577224961a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&QueryText=Hastings&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=Hastings&noImage=0

[ShootinDave]

The Federal Statute: NFA

18 U.S.C. sec. 921(a)(24) "The term 'firearm silencer' or
'firearm muffler' means any device for silencing, muffling, or
diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any
combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for
use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm
muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or
fabrication."

Sounds like a bottle nipple would be a part "redesigned" to be a silencer.

-- This law does not apply to airguns (any weapon that does not require ignition to shoot). I also see "portable" firearm used in there. I guess if you bolted a gun down it could be silenced.

Also some ppl have seen this as not covering "antique" weapons, since by their very ATF dif they are not firearms.

** For any question directed towards the BATFE conserning the law, direct it to their Technology Branch.

- Dave

[rsidner]

Thank you shootindave. Yes, according to the BATF anything that directly reduces the noise of a firearm that attaches to a firearm is considered a silencer and is hence illegal without the proper paperwork and tax stamp. There was actually a flashider for the CAR15 at one point that dropped the noise level by like 1DB or something and the BATF deemed it a silencer so you get the idea of how strict they are about it.

However, you could get something like the 'firebreathing pig' which doesn't reduce the noise but instead directionalizes it forward so you help save your ears and you friend's ears and it is 100% legal as long as a fh is legal in your state.

[devildogmech]

Hastings® "Metro" Barrel Extension the silencer that is not a silencer!!!!!

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0005577224961a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&QueryText=Hastings&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=Hastings&noImage=0

Uh... Yeah... I realy want to try to shoot trap with THAT sticking off the front of my weapon! "improves Patterning" .... Try taking 3 steps back to account for the .... uh... added length of that beast....I could just imagine trying to explain this to some one..... some one who just happend to hear part of the conversation would probably think I was talking about.... um... a.... Marriage enhancement device.....

Mabey thats how they got it past the ATF... They ran it past the FDA.... :D .

Its ugly, and kinda pointless:lol:

Billy

[Ross762]

Since you're in GA, just do the paperwork and pay the $200 tax.

The actual paperwork and stuff is easy a heck, and my last form 4 came back in a month with the stamp. I know a guy who's gotten his back for an SBR in two weeks. They're actually getting pretty fast, and the process is alot simpler than most people make it out to be.

As for owning a suppressor, I think it's worth the extra $200. It does save the ears, and it makes less noise for neighbors, and hunting with a suppressor is legal here in VA, so it's pretty useful overall.

Making less noise is all part of being neighborly.

[devildogmech]

Where would you even get a suppressor? I have a 10/22 and it would be cool to suppress, but where to get one? And how much$? How to get the barrel threaded$? and what do you do when some cop asks you why you have a suppressed weapon? Do you have a card or some paperwork you keep with the weapon to prove its legal?

Billy

[Ross762]

Where would you even get a suppressor? I have a 10/22 and it would be cool to suppress, but where to get one? And how much$? How to get the barrel threaded$? and what do you do when some cop asks you why you have a suppressed weapon? Do you have a card or some paperwork you keep with the weapon to prove its legal?

Billy

If you're in a class three state you can just buy one from any of the many suppressor manufacturers out there. My 22 suppressor actually cost less than the $200 tax stamp, but I bought it on an internet group buy (though local to all of us who bought) and it was a special run of ones left over so they were discounted to begin with. You get what you pay for in performance, etc. A good .308 can will cost ALOT more than a .22LR can for example.

Any gunsmith can thread your barrel. Depending on the gun and suppressor, you can buy threaded barrels. Some suppressors are built to use QD systems that are attatched to the barrel. You can specify the threading used on many suppressors straight from the factory.

A tactful answer would be to tell him you have it so you don't bother your neighbors, don't need hearing protection, and ask him if he want's to try it out. There's no reason to be a dick and say, "It's my right and none of your business." They're usually just doing their job, and if you're legal you're not going to have much problems from any professional cop.

Your ATF form is your authorization. It's what you fill out and send into the ATF with your $200 check. Once they clear you, they put a stamp (like the same stamp they put on booze or cigarettes, hey it's A..T..F..) on it and send it back to you. That's what you keep with your device. You can use a copy, and it's recommended that you put the original in a safe place, and just use a copy when you take it out. Some folks copy it and reduce it in size, then laminate it and it's easier to keep with you when you have the device.

I don't know IN law specifically.

Edited to add: After checking it appears individuals can own MG, suppressors, etc. in IN. Check with your local class three dealer.

[devildogmech]

Learn somthing new every day!
:)

Billy

[FatDaddy]

$200 one time charge? I would have thought it would been a recuring charge for some reason.

[wlcharm]

The Legalities Of Silencer Ownership

Contrary to popular belief, silencers are and always have been legal to own under federal law. There are, however, 16 states, plus the District of Columbia that prohibit the civilian ownership of silencers. At this time, the following states allow private ownership of silencers: AL, AR, AK, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KY, LA, ME, MD, MS, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WI, and WY. Of the fifteen states that do not allow civilian ownership, CA, IA, KS, MA, MO, and MI allow Class 3 dealers and Class two manufacturers to possess silencers.

Silencers, like machine-guns, are proscribed under the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934, and are regulated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. The procedure for owning a silencer may seem daunting at first, but actually requires less paperwork than buying an automobile.

To legally purchase a silencer or any item falling under the purview of the NFA, you must be at least 21 years of age, a resident of the United States, and have no felony record. The first step is to locate a Class 3 dealer in your state who either has or will order the item you are interested in. Once a product and price have been settled on, the Class 3 dealer will provide the prospective purchaser with duplicate ATF Form 4's and two sets of fingerprint cards. The Form 4's must be filled out on both sides, with passport photos of the prospective buyer affixed to the backside of the form. The buyer then has the Chief Law-Enforcement officer* sign the rear of the Form 4's attesting the prospective purchaser does not possess a criminal record and is not wanted. The two fingerprint cards must be completed and signed by a Law Enforcement agency. The completed paperwork is then sent to the Department of the Treasury with a check or money order for $200.00. The $200.00 is known as a "transfer tax" because as it must be paid whenever ownership of the silencer is "transferred" (in this case, the dealer to the prospective purchaser). As long as ownership remains with the same person, the tax need not be paid again. Only if the owner sells it will a new transfer tax need to be paid. An owner may will his silencer to a lawful heir with no tax incurred.

Once the paper work is submitted, it normally takes 60 to 120 days to receive the approved, stamped paperwork from NFA Branch. It is only upon the return of the approved paperwork that the dealer can allow the prospective purchaser to take possession of their new silencer. A copy of the approved paperwork must accompany the silencer at all times (the original should be stored in a safe deposit box). Silencers can be transported to other states that allow their ownership, but to transport a silencer into one of the sixteen states which prohibit private ownership can subject the owner to serious state felony charges.

*The following is a list of typically encountered Chief Law Enforcement Officers (CLEO):

Sheriff
Chief of Police
Head of State Police Agency
District Attorney
A judge with the power of arrest
Any other law enforcement officer approved for this procedure by the National Firearms Act branch of the BATF.


I have a AAC Pilot .22 can that I can put on my 10/22 but you can't clean it. My next .22 can is going to be a T.I. one. http://www.tacticalinc.com/
They also make one of the best 10/22 mags out there now.
BTW T.I. is going to raise there price on there Mag's next month.