Excellent!

[TPW]

Thank you for creating this topic! Here goes!

I'm trying to decide between the Rem. 7400 in 30.06 in the 22 inch barrell or the 18 1/2 inch barrell.
Will there be much difference in accuracy? Which one will handle the wide variety of bullet grains (110 to 220) better.
I'll be mounting a scope on it, probably a 3x9x40.
All responses appreciated.
Thanks!

[Camera man]

Let me be the 2nd :D I just traded a nice 7400 in 270 for a Rem ADL. My son missed a nice 8 point due to the 7400 jamming. He is more of a turn bolt guy anyway.....I would think you would get more speed out of the longer bbl. Not to sure which one would be shoot straighter. Good luck.

[stooxie]

Originally posted by TPW@Jan 5 2006, 11:26 AM
Thank you for creating this topic! Here goes!

I'm trying to decide between the Rem. 7400 in 30.06 in the 22 inch barrell or the 18 1/2 inch barrell.
Will there be much difference in accuracy? Which one will handle the wide variety of bullet grains (110 to 220) better.
I'll be mounting a scope on it, probably a 3x9x40.
All responses appreciated.
Thanks!
The only difference in terms of ballistics will be the muzzle velocity. The 18" barrel will cut about 100-150 fps off the muzzle velocity, and reduce muzzle energy a bit as well.

The 18" barrel, on the other hand, will be handier in dense brush or woods.

With 30-06, I would say get the longer barrel since you can use the cartridge for
medium and somewhat longrange shooting.

If you want a brush gun, a shorter action cartridge is better like 308 or, my favorite, 7mm-08.

-Stooxie

[stooxie]

Originally posted by Camera man@Jan 5 2006, 11:59 AM
Let me be the 2nd :D I just traded a nice 7400 in 270 for a Rem ADL. My son missed a nice 8 point due to the 7400 jamming. He is more of a turn bolt guy anyway.....I would think you would get more speed out of the longer bbl. Not to sure which one would be shoot straighter. Good luck.
I guess that's why some people really prefer semi-auto's in short-action cartridges only. There's a lot of travel in those long-action semi-autos and they will be more sensitive to environmental and ammo factors.

-Stooxie

[rugmar]

I've heard a lot of complaints about the 7400 in 30.06 and in .270 jamming. I can't say I have witnessed it first hand though. If you really like the 30.06 and want to stay with it and stay with Remington, I'd suggest the 7600. It is pump action and a great rifle. You will still have to decide between 22 inch barrel and the 18.5 inch barrel however.

I have one of these with the 18.5 and I absolutely love it.

[darjeeling]

If the rifles have the same taper and barrel thickness, the 18.5" should be more accurate (well not more accurate, but more precise actually) than the 22" barrel. The 18.5 incher will be more rigid and have better harmonics with everything else being equal, leading to slightly tighter groups. If you are scoping the rifle, I can see very little justification for that extra 3.5", it would just make it heavier, bulkier, more cumbersome and group a little worse for an upside of less than a 5% muzzle velocity increase. Go with the shortie.

Edit-
That was my 400th post! Horray for me!

[TPW]

My son missed a nice 8 point due to the 7400 jamming.

I've heard a lot of complaints about the 7400 in 30.06 and in .270 jamming.

Not very encouraging but I'd like to hear from more of you guys. Especially those who have the 7400. Thanks.

[Crosshair]

What about the new 750 series? I have not heard much about it.

[stooxie]

Originally posted by darjeeling@Jan 5 2006, 03:31 PM
If the rifles have the same taper and barrel thickness, the 18.5" should be more accurate (well not more accurate, but more precise actually) than the 22" barrel. The 18.5 incher will be more rigid and have better harmonics with everything else being equal, leading to slightly tighter groups. If you are scoping the rifle, I can see very little justification for that extra 3.5", it would just make it heavier, bulkier, more cumbersome and group a little worse for an upside of less than a 5% muzzle velocity increase. Go with the shortie.

Edit-
That was my 400th post! Horray for me!
Are you sure about this?

Why are varmint/target edition rifles always longer than all the others? This goes for
pistols, too.

I, too, have heard that shorter barrels technically are more rigid but I don't think, for
that reason alone, a short barrel would produce tighter groups.

However, either way, I don't think this question can be settled by numbers alone.
We need to know what the intended use of the rifle is. From what I read, 22" is
the practical minimum for any medium to long range hunting rifle. Shorter is fine
but you'll have a rounder trajectory to deal with and, thus, make better short
range rifles.

The Ruger Frontier rifle, for example, with it's 16" barrel is a VERY short range gun,
as I believe it is intended to be. The main purpose their is fast target aquisition of
close in targets.


-Stooxie

[cajungeo]

Originally posted by TPW@Jan 5 2006, 02:26 PM
Thank you for creating this topic! Here goes!

I'm trying to decide between the Rem. 7400 in 30.06 in the 22 inch barrell or the 18 1/2 inch barrell.
Will there be much difference in accuracy? Which one will handle the wide variety of bullet grains (110 to 220) better.
I'll be mounting a scope on it, probably a 3x9x40.
All responses appreciated.
Thanks!
I have the papa of the 7400, the Model 4 in .308 Win. I like the 22" barrel for a cartridge 30-06 size. You will loose some velocity with the shorter barrel and have quite a flash as there is a lot of powder in there. If you ever get to Colorado to hunt elk, be prepared for 300 - 400 yd shots sometimes. I don't believe you will notice any accuracy difference on this semi auto. 2" groups is good for a semi auto @ 100 yds.

Tripple K makes 10 rnd mags. They seem to work well in my model 4.

Here is a link on the 7400 http://www.chuckhawks.com/remington_7400.htm
another: http://www.chuckhawks.com/rem_7400_carbine.htm

[darjeeling]

Stooxie, the reason why varmit and target barrels are longer is that so they can have their cake and eat it too, so to speak. The short answer is that all other things being equal, a shorter barrel will produce tighter groups, and small loss of muzzle velocity doesn't matter much unless you are trying to fragment ball ammo (ss193 anyone?). A varmit or target rifle doesn't have all other things equal, however. The long answer is detailed below.

Varmit and target barrel tapers are much thicker than field tapers that are found on 90 percent of rifles. This is what adds the 1 or 4 pounds extra a varmit or target rifle has over a standard rifle of the same barrel length, there is that much more steel just in the barrel. Therefore, they can be more ridgid than a field gun even with a longer barrel.

This is some simple physics--the deflection of a tube is based on the youngs modulus of the material its made of, the length and the thickness of the material. The longer or thinner the material, the more deflection the barrel will have, and conceqently the harmonics are worse. Just think of pvc pipe. If you have a 10 foot section, It will have greater absolute and relitive deflection, but if you cut it in half, it will be much more rigid. The same will apply in barrels. It will be even more dramatic, because these extra 3.5 inches will be at the narrowest possible point on the barrel because just about everything past 10-15" on a field taper barrel is straight and equally narrow, so barrel whip on standard taper, long barrel rifles can become very bad.

Put simply percision (what is commonly confsed with accuracy, and meaning how consistently a gun will shoot, or how it groups) is determined to a great deal by the ridgity of the barrel, and barrel length is irrelevant after the bullet is stabilized if it is fired from a scoped firearm. Actually, velocity generally peaks around 23-25" in most small bore rifles and will go down with length because of the massive ammount of friction the rifling imparts on the bullet as it goes down the barrel. So a 36" barreled rifle and a 14" barreled rifle of the taper could have about the same muzzle velocity, but the 14" barreled rifle will shoot groups many times tighter than the 36" barreled one. A good example of this is how the M4 is inherently more accurate than the M16-A2. They have the similar thickness and taper barrels, but the M4's is only 14" long whereas the M16A2 is somewhere around 20", so the M4 is more precise to just about as far as the M16A2 will reach. And this is mainly because the shorter barrel on the M4 produce better harmonics and tighter groups. Another example is the thompson contender. they have something like 10-16" barrels, and are more accurate than just about anything, even with their relitively standard tapers.

You also have to consider that loosing 150 fps isnt such a big deal. Factory ammo for the 30'06 50 years ago rarely broke 2400 fps in 24 inch barrels in 150 grain offerings, same for the 308. Now its uncommon to see huntilng loads going under 2550 fps in the same weight out of 24" barrels. If anything, you are just loosing some of the speed you get out of 40 years of pushing up chamber pressures in modern rifle cartredge loadings. 150 less fps out of the barrel will give you a rounder trajectory, but this will only really matter beyond the capabilities of a hunter or most shooters-- around 400 meters plus.

So there is very little downside here. Also percision matters more at that range than a 3-5% velocity decrease. We are not talking about shots anywhere near the edge of the ballistic envelope of the 30'06/.308 cartredges, and if there are any hunting shots you ever take where 3-5% increase in muzzle velocity would make a difference, you shouldn't take it. This shot would be beyond the capabilities of the worlds greatest marksmen to make consistant clean and humane kills. And thats the whole name of the game in hunting.

Sorry for the long explination, but its a complicated subject

[Dorkface]

Well i dunno how it works with those rifles but on the M-14's the 22" is used for the longer range stuff 600+ yrds, the 18 is usually good to 400-500 and the 16 maxs out about 300 if i remember correctly. Down range the loss of muzzle volociety can really be felt too.

[darjeeling]

Military 308 loads are very tame (under 2400fps at muzzle and very light weight)l, and they also only do damage when they fragment because they are FMJ loads. They will only fragment when the angular velocity of the bullet is extremely high. To give an idea, 308 barrels are often have 1 in 10" twist rates, and at 2000 feet per second, a bullet from a 1 in 10" barrel will rotate 2400 times a second, or somewher around a force 4500 times gravity outwards on the skin of the bullet, and military ball loads will rarely fragment even at that speed and with that kind of stress on the skin before decelerating in flesh(!) FMJ bullets cause almost no damage unless they fragment, and so the comparison between military and nonmilitary experience here is not apt--kill shots beyond 600 yards with smallbore (sub 50 cal) rifles is generally 100% due to shot placement because it will go in and out of the target at .30" , regardless of its muzzle velocity. The 308 cartredge is stable balistically past 1200 meters in a 24" barrel (if with a grapefruit like trajectory at this range), and should have no problem reaching 1000 meters out of a 18" or 16" barrel. The velocity loss there would be under 250 feet/second at muzzle, and though this will be between 7 and 10%, this is less than that of a military 308 and a 300 win mag load of the same weight--there should be no problem way past where you're talking about.

The shorter barels will be more precise and accurate, but at *extreme* range will be harder to hit with because of slightly rounder trajectories. Muzzle velocities is one of the last things you should bemoan loosing-- if this was true, no-one would use a carbine or assualt rifle, or everyone would look to get an extra 2 or 3 inches added to their mini-14.

[TPW]

Gentlemen,

I want to thank all of you for your input and some very techinical information that I was not aware of regarding velocities and twist rates to name a few. After reading ALL of your posts, I have decided to get the 7400, 30.06, in the 22 inch barrell. Although I hunt mainly in wooded areas, the opportunity to shoot 300 yards plus does present itself on logging slash roads and such. Therefore, in order to REACH OUT AND TOUCH SOMEBODY, it's the 22 " barrel for me.
Thanks again..........Happy shooting, happy hunting, and Happy New Year! :D

[darjeeling]

Again, I'd say you just go with whats comfortable. If the 22" feels better in your hand than the 18.5" rifle, use it. If its the other way around, take the 18.5". Being comfortable with your hunting rifle is much more inportant than its capabilities, because they will both do more than you need.

The 30 '06 isn't hot enough where that kind of barrel change would make a significant difference at under 500 yards. If it was a magnum cartredge, I'd say otherwise. But, you probably won't see any difference between the 18.5" and 22" barrel in the shooting any responsible hunter will do.

Hope you like your 7400!

[TPW]

Thank you for all your support. After I range test it, I'll give a report. I'm buying the rifle on Monday.

[treedawg]

For general hunting there's no way I'd lug around a gun with a 22" barrel.

The shorter barrel is well worth losing a few FPS, at least in my book.

TD