Challenged

[Ruger22C]

I was taken up on a challenge, which was my idea :usa: :2guns: . This is basically what's going on; the person believes that firearms should not be taken into public areas, especially with the pourpose of self-defense. Specifically firearms; the person does not disapprove of other forms of weapons, such as pepper spray. But not only is this person against carrying themself, but is against Other people carrying, again meaning firearms, nothing else.

This is my angle at it so far; the Bible mentions, if a man does not have a sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. In those days, a sword was the finest weapon they could get. In our day, that would be equivalent to a military rifle, or, in a public settings; I believe a handgun.

What I need is, Bible verses, good arguments, statistics from real-life, as gun Control increases crime not lowers it. Whatever else you think might help.

I'd appreciate it if anyone can help me out, thanks.

Forgive me if my post sounds strange; I haven't slept yet, and it is hard to check for errors when you are tired.

Thank you, Signed,
Spark Johnson.

[MAJORMINUS]

the Bible mentions, if a man does not have a sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. In those days, a sword was the finest weapon they could get. In our day, that would be equivalent to a military rifle, or, in a public settings; I believe a handgun.


The context was that Jesus was telling his followers to do this. This occured during the last supper right before the priest came to arrest Jesus. One of the followers cut off the hand of the arrestors and then Jesus made him whole again. I think this is in Luke.

[Goeth27]

http://www.justfacts.com/gun_control.htm

Along with this link, I don't know anyone who would rather try to rob or attack, a armed citizen vs. an unarmed citizen.

[Ruger22C]

Originally posted by MAJORMINUS@Dec 3 2005, 01:11 PM
the Bible mentions, if a man does not have a sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. In those days, a sword was the finest weapon they could get. In our day, that would be equivalent to a military rifle, or, in a public settings; I believe a handgun.


The context was that Jesus was telling his followers to do this. This occured during the last supper right before the priest came to arrest Jesus. One of the followers cut off the hand of the arrestors and then Jesus made him whole again. I think this is in Luke.
Where did you get that? In that instance, A. He cut off his EAR. B. Jesus told him to put his sword in it's place (not to get rid of it); by the way, this is NOT the same verse as the one I am reffering to. Correct me if I'm wrong please, with a verse.

Thank you, Signed,
Spark Johnson.

[MAJORMINUS]

"When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," they answered. He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied. (Luke 22:35-38, NIV)

[49] When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen, they said, "Lord, should we strike with our swords?" [50] And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear.

[51] But Jesus answered, "No more of this!" And he touched the man's ear and healed him.

[52] Then Jesus said to the chief priests, the officers of the temple guard, and the elders, who had come for him, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come with swords and clubs? [53] Every day I was with you in the temple courts, and you did not lay a hand on me. But this is your hour -- when darkness reigns."

You are correct it was a ear not a hand.

[Ruger22C]

Major, I appologize if I in any way sounded snappy; though it's not an excuse, I am very tired. Hopefully after a good night's rest, I can concentrate; and take everyone's comments to full towards my debate :).

Thank you, Signed,
Spark Johnson.

[MAJORMINUS]

:D :D :D :D :D
I found a sermon on Jesus and swords

click here (http://www.aplacefortruth.org/Jesus.sword.hammond)

[Swordslinger]

Originally posted by MAJORMINUS@Dec 3 2005, 07:11 PM
the Bible mentions, if a man does not have a sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. In those days, a sword was the finest weapon they could get. In our day, that would be equivalent to a military rifle, or, in a public settings; I believe a handgun.


The context was that Jesus was telling his followers to do this. This occured during the last supper right before the priest came to arrest Jesus. One of the followers cut off the hand of the arrestors and then Jesus made him whole again. I think this is in Luke.
Im pretty sure it was Peter, and it was the gaurds ear. (Sorry, I saw your quote after posting this) If ya think about it, he was swinging for his head, and the gaurd likley tilted his head sideways leaving his ear in the path of the sword.

This was Peter, the man Christ giave the "Keys to the Kingdom". Im pretty sure that he understood what a sword was for, and why he was instructed to obtain one (or two, I maintain it was one for each hand, or perhaps an extra for a stash).

Here is a very short piece that I did on this subject before. Much more can be expounded upon. For instance, the Christian that settled Britain in the first century fought off the Romans man and women alike. The Romans feared them because of their fiercness in battle, knowing no fear of death. One Roman was quoted as having a particular fear of the women with "Flaxen hair and blazen blue eyes that would fight to the death knowing that they would be with Christ immedietly if killed in battle." There is a book entitled; The Drama of the Lost Diciples that chronicles the history of the early Christians in Britain. It is available here: http://www.artisanpublishers.com/bk_tracin..._ancestors.html (http://www.artisanpublishers.com/bk_tracing_our_ancestors.html) its about halfway down the page. It can also be found here; http://www.glastonburyabbey.com/shop136_ca...owett_books.htm (http://www.glastonburyabbey.com/shop136_cat40_the_drama_of_the_lost_disciples_geor ge_f_jowett_books.htm) And it is published by Destiny Publishers. http://www.destinypublishers.com/
Here the short treatise that I was refering to earlier.

Are Christians Commanded Bear Arms?* (New American Standard Version)

Luke 22:36 “And He said to them, "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.”

Luke 11:21* “21"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.”

Are Christians commanded to bear arms? It is clear from the passages above, is it not?* Christ commanded His Apostles to, “sell his coat and buy one”.* I have heard many in judeo-Christiandom say, “He was speaking of the sword of the Word of God mentioned in Ephesians.* But does that reconcile with the above scriptures?* Was it the sword of the Word that Peter used to slice of the ear of the guard?* Of coarse not, it was a razor sharp sword, and he knew how to use it.* In fact, I believe that he was swinging for the guard’s neck to lop off his head and the guard just barley got himself out of the way!!

About the sword that Christ The King commanded His men to obtain, was it not just the same as all of the swords carried by Caesar’s soldiers?* Or was it simple “Saturday Night Special” sword that had been neutered for use by the populace?* No!!* It was the nearest thing to a rifle or a handgun of today.* It could be carried on the waist, rapidly drawn from its scabbard, and used for personal defense or deadly offensive purposes.* It was a lethal weapon that was equivalent a pistol,* rifle and yes, EVEN AN ASSAULT RIFLE. When you carried a sword your were as well armed as Caesar’s boys.

Some may contend that this was a commandment only for the Apostles.* Yet, the Word of God says that Christ told them to teach us, “to observe ALL that I have commanded you.”* Yes, commanded!!* Why?* Here is one reason. 1st Timothy 5:8 says: “But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.”* How is a Christian man to provide for his wife and family if he disobeys Christ’s command to buy a modern day equivalent to a sword?* Depend on the police?* I think we all realize that they are only there to take a report, after the crime has been commited.

We are told in the New Testament that we should learn and instruct from the teaching of the Old Testament. (Romans 15:4) We can read in 1st Samuel 13:19-22 that the Phillistines had a unique way of oppressing our forefathers.* It was called SWORD CONTROL.* “There is nothing new under the sun”, is there?*
Prayer:
Heavenly Father, I have failed in teaching the truth to the brethren concerning your command to be armed.* Father, awaken Your people that they may “provide” for* their own, and their posterity, and their posterities future.* To leave in this nation, an inheritance for our children, and their children, as we are comanded in Proverbs 13:22,* "A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children:.."
* * In Jesus Christ’s Name, Amen.

I believe that "provide for his own, especially those of his own house" has a broad deffinition. In fact, I believe every Christian should be armed if not for anything but the reason to be ready should God send you someone who needs "his wagon fixed" so to speak. Think about it, if you are confronted by a murderer, of rapist, and he is "able" to go on to another victim when he is done with you, thats not showing much love for your neighbor IMO. And it is certainly NOT "providing for your own". And according to Scripture, not to do so would make one "worse than an unbeliever (infidel)."

1st Timothy 5:8 "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."


It is clear that Christ taught them to obtain a sword, even if selling a nessecary item was required to do so. He then told His Disciples to;



Matthew 28:20* "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

[Dorkface]

Originally posted by MAJORMINUS@Dec 3 2005, 03:49 PM
[49] When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen, they said, "Lord, should we strike with our swords?" [50] And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear.

[51] But Jesus answered, "No more of this!" And he touched the man's ear and healed him.

[52] Then Jesus said to the chief priests, the officers of the temple guard, and the elders, who had come for him, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come with swords and clubs? [53] Every day I was with you in the temple courts, and you did not lay a hand on me. But this is your hour -- when darkness reigns."


In this example its leading up the the crucifixion which Jesus new MUST happen but his diciples didn't WANT to happen. Which is why I bet Jesus healed the gaurds ear so they wouldn't kill all of the followers.

[Swordslinger]

Originally posted by Dorkface+Dec 4 2005, 01:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dorkface @ Dec 4 2005, 01:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MAJORMINUS@Dec 3 2005, 03:49 PM
[49] When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen, they said, "Lord, should we strike with our swords?" [50] And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear.

[51] But Jesus answered, "No more of this!" And he touched the man's ear and healed him.

[52] Then Jesus said to the chief priests, the officers of the temple guard, and the elders, who had come for him, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come with swords and clubs? [53] Every day I was with you in the temple courts, and you did not lay a hand on me. But this is your hour -- when darkness reigns."


In this example its leading up the the crucifixion which Jesus new MUST happen but his diciples didn't WANT to happen. Which is why I bet Jesus healed the gaurds ear so they wouldn't kill all of the followers. [/b][/quote]
Yep, and he told Peter to sheath his sword, not to get rid of it by taking it to the nearest "Sword Buy Back Program" sponsered by the local synagoge, and funded by Ceasar. ;)

It was His time to do what He came in the flesh of a man to do. Die for our sins, that we be freed from the contract, and lawfully be able to wed the Bridegroom, Jesus Christ.

Matthew 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

[MAJORMINUS]

Yep, and he told Peter to sheath his sword, not to get rid of it by taking it to the nearest "Sword Buy Back Program" sponsered by the local synagoge, and funded by Ceasar. wink.gif


:D :D :D :D