MOA club Mini-30

[steve4102]

Took a stab at the MOA club today. This is my best out of 5 attempts. I am shooting a Mini-30 with a Muzzle Brake, Biathlon Stabilizer, Trigger Job, ang glass bedded. Shots were take at 100 yards measured ( 100 ft tape , 300 ft) handloads Lapua brass, WLR primers, 125gr Sierra .308 Pro Hunter, 29.5gr of AA2230 powder.

[rutro]

WOOoooHOOoooo !!!! Steve4102 congradulations are in order I do beleive. Unless I am very misstaken that's the first qualifying target for the MOA club. That's some mighty fine shooting my man. :beer: :beer: :beer:

[droopalong]

Great shooting steve4102
Great to see a mini thirty shoot that well and is encouraging to all that own one.
Something to strive for . sounds like the AA2230 may be the powder I've been looking for, haven't been able to get that close with the blc2 in my thirty useing the 125 TNT's.
Keep it up

Later
DD
ps
must a stoped snowing huh!!!!!!!!!

[cajungeo]

Originally posted by rutro@May 8 2005, 07:43 PM
WOOoooHOOoooo !!!! Steve4102 congradulations are in order I do beleive. Unless I am very misstaken that's the first qualifying target for the MOA club. That's some mighty fine shooting my man. :beer:* :beer:* :beer:
Ahmmm, not quite. Still a very nice set of groups steve. If I can ever get my Mini up and running again, I'm dieing to give it a try. I'm glad you did well.

The above post has been edited. See below page 2.
Sorry for the confusion.

Congratulations Steve! :sniper:

[steve4102]

Originally posted by cajungeo@May 9 2005, 02:59 PM

Ahmmm, not quite. Still a very nice set of groups steve.


What is wrong that this does not qualify? If I read the rules correcty, 4 out of the 5 must be 1.049" or less and on the same paper.

4. Qualifying - 5 shots per target. Maximum shots allowed per sheet is 25.
A. 4 targets out of 5 on “same sheet” must have 5 shot groups that measure 1 MOA (1.049”) or less. The 5th group can be omitted. Each of the 4 targets group must have 1 MOA or less, not averaged.
B. All groups will at least touch the black 1” ring and be contained in the 2“ ring.
C. Write group size of each group, and Date fired on target. Then post, and tell us a little about how you did it.

Am I missing something or did I do something wrong?

[droopalong]

Hi steve4102
Just red Cajungeo's reply.. HMMMMMM
Guess he means all the shots have to at least touch the black as per your center target and possibly upper right???
If thats the case the club list will be mighty short..
I have four from my shooting 05/08 that would qualify but only two on the same page !!!!!!!!
This could get very interesting..
Iregardless, that s some mighty fine shooting for a mini be it 14 or 30.
Just think of it as more reasons to do more shooting..
From the looks of the red dot tatgets you have posted that's one fine shooting mini 30 with a shooter to do it justice..
Best part in my opinion is the mods are basic but the reloading is were you both really shine!!!!!!
Nothing like rolling your own!!!!!!!!!

Geterdun
Later DD

[rutro]

WOW my bad. I guess that part about "All groups will at least touch the black 1” ring and be contained in the 2“ ring." just went right over my ol' head bone. I read that to mean as long as the group was centered on the black and all shots were contained within the 2" ring and under 1.049" ctoc it was a good target. But if they all (read that all shots in group) must at least touch the black 1" ring it's going to be a hard club to join. Especialy for those of us shooting a stock factory barrel.

[steve4102]

Thanks droopalong,

If you are refering to B. All groups will at least touch the black 1” ring and be contained in the 2“ ring. Then it should say "All holes" and not "all groups" and if all holes must touch the black there would be no need for cajun to specify that the groups must "be contained in the 2" ring".

I settled on AA2230 after testing many powders. 2230 gives me the best accuracy but my velocities are kinda low. I have had good luck with H335 as well. The Sierra 125 .308 shoots best in my mini, I have tried Hornady 110, 130 and 130 SSP, Nosler 125 BT and the 125 Sierra works best. I also crimp my loads with the Lee Factory Crimp Die.

Looks like you have your mini dialed in as well, nice shooting.

[steve4102]

Originally posted by rutro@May 10 2005, 04:04 AM
WOW my bad. I guess that part about "All groups will at least touch the black 1” ring and be contained in the 2“ ring." just went right over my ol' head bone. I read that to mean as long as the group was centered on the black and all shots were contained within the 2" ring and under 1.049" ctoc it was a good target. But if they all (read that all shots in group) must at least touch the black 1" ring it's going to be a hard club to join. Especialy for those of us shooting a stock factory barrel.
That is the way I read it as well. Here is a few examples of what I thought cajun ment

[droopalong]

Steve 4102
No offense to Cajungeo, (He does a super job)but the contest may have been better named MOA & POA club.. Kind of like shooting the 10 x targets, shoot a fifty 3x and lose to a fifty 4x. HEHE
Yeah Rutro either the heavy barrel and strut shooters aren't doing any better or maybe they're waiting till the last to post . Either way this is intresting and good exercise..
Guess what I need now is a trigger job, seems like I spent a third of my time shooting-(not shooting) waiting till the hamer falls. With the scope dialed in at 20x the time span gets rather tedious as the target begins to dance and the heart beats get louder..I know B**** B****
Thanks Steve for the tip about the crimp, may have to try in in my thirty and see if it helps my loads.. Never was a fan of crimping but hey, whatever it takes!!!!!!!!!
Don't like full length sizinging either so am experimenting with about a half to 3/4 size, just enough to size the neck down a little.. Not certain about results yet so far no FTF or chamber problems, my loads in the 14 a rather low vol also.. could be a good thing!!!!!!!!!

GETRDUN

Later DD

[WhyteP38]

Originally posted by steve4102@May 9 2005, 03:37 PM
B. All groups will at least touch the black 1” ring and be contained in the 2“ ring.
I'm confused. First of all, I see the word "groups," not "shots." Second of all, why would the wording be "contained in the 2" ring" if what was really meant was "touching the black 1" ring"? In fact, if all shots are supposed to touch the black 1" ring, why mention the 2" ring at all? Simply say, "All shots will at least touch the black 1” ring."

My reading of the wording favors Steve, since 4 of his groups touch the black 1" ring and have all shots contained in the 2" ring.

[tri70]

wow, that a good shootin' 30 you've got!! ;) I thought it quallified too.

-tri :usa:

[scruffy]

Originally posted by WhyteP38+May 10 2005, 09:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (WhyteP38 @ May 10 2005, 09:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-steve4102@May 9 2005, 03:37 PM
B. All groups will at least touch the black 1” ring and be contained in the 2“ ring.
I'm confused. First of all, I see the word "groups," not "shots." Second of all, why would the wording be "contained in the 2" ring" if what was really meant was "touching the black 1" ring"? In fact, if all shots are supposed to touch the black 1" ring, why mention the 2" ring at all? Simply say, "All shots will at least touch the black 1” ring."

My reading of the wording favors Steve, since 4 of his groups touch the black 1" ring and have all shots contained in the 2" ring. [/b][/quote]
I agree with White, as written the rules say groups must be in the black, not all shots have to be in the black, the rules state all shots must be in the 2" circle.

So according to that rule, and the others, as written it's a MOA target unless we're missing something.

So what are we missing Cajun, why is this not a MOA target according to the rules are stated??? :unsure:

I've spent 15 minutes scratching my head on this one, i'm balder and my head hurts... Please help.

later,
scruffy

[rutro]

I've spent 15 minutes scratching my head on this one, i'm balder and my head hurts... Please help. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Me to Scruffy!!!

[steve4102]

Originally posted by droopalong@May 10 2005, 05:08 AM
B****
Thanks Steve for the tip about the crimp, may have to try in in my thirty and see if it helps my loads.. Never was a fan of crimping but hey, whatever it takes!!!!!!!!!


GETRDUN

Later DD
Hey droopalong, Here is a link to some interesting testing using the Lee FCD.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/crimping.html

[cajungeo]

Originally posted by steve4102@May 10 2005, 06:32 AM
That is the way I read it as well. Here is a few examples of what I thought cajun ment
Yes you are correct. Continued:

[cajungeo]

I will have to apologize to you steve. I could only make out your first set of numbers on each target. My bad. Sorry for the confusion and the Ahmmm post. :unsure:

I just downloaded your target into my photo program, and enhanced the pic. printed it out and measured. I can now see you subtracted the .308 from your out-side to out-side measurement. ;)

You are Perfect Unions very first "MOA Club Member". Congratulations steve4102 that was great shooting. Please upgrade your signature to reflect your achievement. :D

I will have to get busy to come up with an appropriate avatar for you. ;)

[WhyteP38]

Way to go, Steve4102! As a fellow Mini 30 owner, please let me be the first to say, "YEE-HAW!"

[Leo]

AWSOM

[steve4102]

Thanks everyone, I have to apologize to cajun and the rest of you for not explaining how I measured my groups. I have always measured outside to outside and subtracted 1 bullet diameter, I should have explained that. I could have witten a little neater as well. Sorry for the counfusion.

[droopalong]

Steve 4102

YOU DA MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Said it before & say it again..
Super job.. great shooting!!!!!!!!!
ETC-ETC

Thanks for the info on crimping.. May be my missing link..

Getrdun heck you GOT ER DUN!!

Later DD

[Tunug]

Since a .308 bullet could and probably would print a hole slightly bigger than .308, I suggest you measure center to center and not subtract .308. This would be more accurate and more in your favor.

Of course, sometimes it can be difficult to measure center to center if a group looks like one big hole. In this case I think it would be best to measure a hole, and when it is likely bigger than .308... like lets say .315... then measure outside to outside and subtract .315.

I'm just thinkin here... not speaking from experience....

maybe a bullet hole turns out to be smaller than the bullet diameter. In that case your way of measuring, subtracting .308, would be more in your favor, but not as accurate as measuring center to center.

BTW, awesome shooting, man -- I'm jealous!! :beer:

[steve4102]

Originally posted by Tunug@May 11 2005, 04:09 PM

maybe a bullet hole turns out to be smaller than the bullet diameter. In that case your way of measuring, subtracting .308, would be more in your favor, but not as accurate as measuring center to center.

:
You are correct, I just measured my target again Cto C as best I could. I came up with 1.054 on the upeer right target. That would mean that this target does not qualify for the MOA club. Sorry guys. I will try again soon.

[Tunug]

awww shucks man! :blink: maybe I shoulda kept my mouth shut!

another thing you could do is do like the liberals do when it is time to count votes.... just keep measuring and don't stop until it measures 1.049" :huh:

but seriously... I never meant to pee on your parade man. :( that's some awesome shooting! {runs n ducks} :ph34r:

[steve4102]

Originally posted by Tunug@May 12 2005, 02:29 PM
:

but seriously... I never meant to pee on your parade man. :( :
You didn't, If it's not MOA then it's not MOA. I don't want to claim success for something that aint right. Besides , that just means I have to go to the shack and try agian. I am just a little embarrassed, I should have known better. Dumb Iron Ranger rides again.

[scruffy]

C to C is not as accurate as O to O - bullet diameter when you're talking thousands of an inch. Competition shooting (atleast the ones I've seen) is measured O to O - bullet diameter. So if measuing O to O - .308 is less than 1.049" then it's an MOA target.

We probably need Cajun to specify how the target should be measured. My vote (not that it matters....) is O to O - bullet diameter since as far as I know that's the official competitive way of scoring the target.

On a side note, who would have thought the first moa mini target would have had this much drama???? LOL!!!

later,
scruffy

[KellyB]

[/QUOTE]
On a side note, who would have thought the first moa mini target would have had this much drama???? LOL!!!


Thats exactly right scruffy!! I'm just glad we have one to debate about!! lol By the way, when is this target competition over ,whens the deadline?

Kelly

[gordito]

Congrats Steve! With a Mini-30 no less...very impressive! :D
Gordito

[cajungeo]

Originally posted by steve4102+May 12 2005, 04:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (steve4102 @ May 12 2005, 04:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Tunug@May 12 2005, 02:29 PM
:

but seriously... I never meant to pee on your parade man. :(* :
You didn't, If it's not MOA then it's not MOA. I don't want to claim success for something that aint right. Besides , that just means I have to go to the shack and try agian. I am just a little embarrassed, I should have known better. Dumb Iron Ranger rides again.[/b][/quote]
Don't feel bad steve, when it's so close it's hard to measure perfectly. The center to center is the best guess, but a guess none the less.

Here is what we will do. The holes do close up especially in the scanner. Stick a bullet you shoot with (.308) into the outter most holes you are meauring from (not the case just the bullet) This will open the hole to .308. Then remeasure outside to outside and subtract the .308. This will be very close or as close as we can get to it.

Alternate method. Measure dia of holes in paper, and use this number to subtract instead of the 308. This will also yield center to center.

So do this and let us know what the measurement is. If the group is 1.049" or less then it is MOA. If it is greater then like you said if it isn't it isn't, but darn it so close.

Even if it isn't MOA your groups have inspired others it can be done. ;)

[cajungeo]

Originally posted by KellyB@May 13 2005, 08:49 AM

On a side note, who would have thought the first moa mini target would have had this much drama???? LOL!!!


Thats exactly right scruffy!! I'm just glad we have one to debate about!! lol By the way, when is this target competition over ,whens the deadline?

Kelly [/quote]
The MOA CLUB Member ship is on-going with out end. The other contests Series 1 ends Midnight June 30, after which Series 2 begins. ;)

[steve4102]

Originally posted by cajungeo@May 13 2005, 04:20 PM
Alternate method. Measure dia of holes in paper, and use this number to subtract instead of the 308. This will also yield center to center.






Did that, and the holes are all a little diff. but they avg. .277. It is time for me to call this target "close but no cigar". Again, sorry for the confusion.

[cajungeo]

Darn it but so close. Oh-well maybe next time out. ;) Hey you put the pressure on me to come up with an MOA avatar so I got-r-dun. Check it out.
http://www.perfectunion.com/forums/index.p...pic=15534&st=0& (http://www.perfectunion.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15534&st=0&)