View Full Version : Do you believe that we are living in the end times
BlenderWizard
05-07-2005, 16:43
Well, I have a group of Jehovah's witnesses that comes by my house from time to time to try to help me understand their beliefs and why they believe them (if my wife answers the door, she tears them a new one). But, anyway, I beat her to the door yesterday, and being that I have a hard time being rude to anyone who has not been rude to me, and I had a little chat with them.
The lady just came right out and asked me, "Do you believe that we are living in the end times?" I said, "No, not really, I don't." And she went on to tell me that the Jehovah's witness belief is basically that the end times started around WWI, and that they do believe that all of the natural disasters, wars, and other things corroborated their belief that we are in the end times. I explained why I did not believe that these are the end times, because if you look at almost any "chunk" of history spanning 100 years, there have been several wars and many natural disasters. She just told me that these were worse than any others. Not much was said at that point, and she invited me to her church and left.
Ok, so after pondering this conversation, I thought of some more things I have wuestions about. Now, I was part of a months long, in-depth look at the book of Revelation in my Sunday school class a couple of years back. One thing that we, as a class, decided (and this is based one our interpretation of Revelation) is if the end times were to begin, one would not be questioning it for very long. My main question is: According to her faith, the "end times" have been going on for like 91 years! How could this be the end if it keeps going, and has already outlasted most people's natural lifespan?
Now, I've read like the first 8 books in the Left Behind series (I chose not to read further, as I am NOT Baptist), and even just going by that her "point" made no sense to me.
I don't really have any argument or questions for you, but I just thought I'd share one of my "religious" experiences.
Sorry this post is long.... but there's soooo much that can be said on the issue!
(I know ya love long posts blender ;) ) I hope ya'll find it interesting.
I think there are events prophesied in the bible that must happen before the tribulation and the second coming. These prophesies are indicative of the "end times", the time these things take place are considered "end times", and these events have mostly taken place in the last century. The bible doesnt really say how long the end times are, and some schools of thought think that the end times have been going on for more than the last 1000 years. The bible does say that no man can predict the time of the second coming of Christ (the end of the end times). The bible also says the tribulation will last seven years.
The left behind series may not be accurate interperatation of scripture either.
Anybody seen the series on tv called "Revelations"? Now that show is rediculous and totally not based on scripture at all.
It is easy to think we are in the end times because things seem worse than they used to be... but that can be said for most comparisons of any times. I imagine that while things seem to be pretty bad now, they could also get a lot worse.... a lot could happen in the next 100 years. I do, however, believe that we are in the end times because "end times" could be considered any amount of time it takes to fulfill those prophesies, and because most of the prophesies have been fulfilled.
God made a covenent that the Isrealites would protected and by 700BC he scattered them across the face of the earth, basically as a punishment for their continued lack of heeding God's command to clean up their act they had to be in the wilderness for some 2600 years! That time is over for them now and one of the first confirmed prophesy was when Isreal became a nation again in 1948 I believe?
Another of the prophesies was that the temple would be rebuilt. The temple is to be rebuilt because the antichrist is to establish worship in the temple (the antichrist will be seen as a very great and noble leader, people will not consider him an antichrist at all like in that stupid show "Revelations"). Anyhow, as I understand, at some point in the beginning of the tribulation, the antichrist will establish worship in the temple, and then in the middle point of this tribulation (3 1/2 years of 7 years) he will proclaim he is the christ and the world must worship him!
Ok, so check this out..... about 7 months ago the Sanhedrin was reinstituted!! The sanhedrin was the group who put Jesus on trial after the moneychangers incident in the temple. The sanhedrin has been in exile since 425AD. The reason they reconvened was because it was decided that the sanhedrin would be the only qualified group to authenticate the coming of the messiah. The first order of business? rebuild the temple! Just as Christ died, the temple curtain seperating the worship area from the holy of holies (where only select priests could speak to God) was miraculously ripped in two. The temple was completely destroyed (by fire i think) in 70AD. This is significant of the fact that we do not reach God through sacrifices and worship in the temple. Acceptance of Christ's death for us is the way to God. The temple has been destroyed now for almost 2000 years and is to be rebuilt shortly -- probably finished in the next few years.
There is something peculiar about the midpoint of the 1900s... the late 40s. Prophesy says that the last days will be similar to the days of Noah. Now, bare with me because this will sound quite out there. This is only now considered correct understanding of the reason for Noah's flood because of the strange phenomenoms of today. According to the Bible, the days of Noah were strange days where Sons of God (angels) married daughters of men (women) and had offspring which were wicked and powerful men (giants). This offspring introduced complex technology and were masters of war. These angels commited sin and God was VERY ****ed at them.... they did this because they were led by Lucifer (through their desires for strange flesh) to try to screw up God's plan for man... didn't work though! Anyhow, in the days of Noah, mankind was considered to be unclean because of this perversion. Now, throughout the Bible, angelic appearances, be them physical or in a vision, were described to be very similar to what we call UFOs today. And here today, especially since the 40s, we have more and more people claim to have seen UFOs and even be abducted! Supposedly, these beings are trying to manipulate human genes again. I realize some think I sound like a loony, but I myself have seen a UFO and, well sorry.... I may be radical, but I am definately quite sane! heh heh and I know that what I saw was definately not created by humans, impossible!! I also have two witnesses ;) The 1900s have also experienced a strange advancement of technology and warfare. Think about it.... for thousands of years we had swords, spears, and bows and arrows, then we had firearms and wars were fought with the similar styles. Now we suddenly have some amazing technology, scary war tactics, and secret societies who are allegedly in control of the major political players. these secret societies (masons, golden dawn, etc.) are rumored to be worshipers of either satan or beings from other planets (this stuff is sooo crazy!!!!! but is it?). The start of understanding these claims would be Genesis 6, Jeremiah 4, Ezekial 1, and the Book of Enoch (still considered divine scripture by the Jews, but thrown out of the Bible by the Catholic Church at the counsil of Nicea).
I think that there has been quite a lot of things happen in the 1900s that qualify it as the beginning of the end times.... starting with the first world war. It's pretty fascinating stuff!
If anyone is interested in the stuff in the slightest, I'll warn ya now... once ya start reading about it, you'll be fascinated and hooked. Just don't believe anything Zechariah Sitchin says!!! lol He has a spin on the story that is sooooo plausable, yet diabolically false that his following may pave the way to the antichrist himself.
the sanhedrin story:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=42898 (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42898)
other end time current events:
http://sxws.com/LIONJUDH/current.php
YourLocalNerd
05-08-2005, 05:07
I agree with what most of Tunug said (sorry bro, I skimmed it :) ) however I will add my simple opinion.
Point 1: The Bible says that no one, not even Jesus Himself knows when He is to return. But that only the Father knows. So if some man claims to know it, they don't ;)
Point 2: Think about all the prophecies in the Bible. With most (if not all) of them, they were not understood by the people living in the time before and the time of the prophecies fulfilment (except in a few very select cases there were a couple of people that understood them such as John the Baptist, but even he doubted). And there is no difference now.
Point 3: Every generation of Christians since Christ's ascension has believed that they were living in the end times.
So with those three points, here is my opinion. Who can really know? Ya there is a lot of convincing evidence out there, but I am sure Christians have been saying that for 2000 years. Anyone who claims to have the book of revelation all mapped and figured out, is full of it. And that includes La'haye and Jenkins (Author's of the Left Behind series).
Make any sense, or did I just confuse you?
BlenderWizard
05-08-2005, 07:04
Tunuq, I DID read your ENTIRE post. Very insightful. However, my beliefs lie more (if not completely) in line with YourLocalNerd's. That was basically the point I was trying to get across to the Jehovah's witness lady. What we've got (as far as wars and war technology) now is the worst that's ever been had, but if you go back to ANY point in history, it has ALWAYS been the worst when compared to everything that came before it.
And I agree as well. ;)
It is easy to think we are in the end times because things seem worse than they used to be... but that can be said for most comparisons of any times. I imagine that while things seem to be pretty bad now, they could also get a lot worse....
:beer: :beer:
I think WW2 was pretty bad time for alot of people of Europe and Russia as far as evil acts of man, we prayed alot that God would be with us and he was. When we stop praying to God and rely on things man made to save us, then I believe we will be in "end times". Right now 86% of Americans still believe in God, I think we're still ok for now. The conservatives still want a better canidate than what the democrats are showing up with. :lol: If they show up with a conservative they would have a good chance for the pres and senate.
-tri :usa:
Things are not great right now, but remember a thing called the Holocaust?
[QUOTE]The temple has been destroyed now for almost 2000 years and is to be rebuilt shortly -- probably finished in the next few years.
Where do you get this info? Last I knew they weren't sure where the temple was located? The most likely candidate has a big ole Islamic Temple sittin on it!!!!
history. it's the ark of the covenant that is considered lost and by some hiding under a temple somewhere. The temple where the sanhedrin convened was destroyed by fire in 70AD. The Temple Mount is under Muslim control.
http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/matthew_24_1.htm
I remember the holocaust.... wasn't too long ago. And the number of Christians and Jews converted or killed by terrorist Islam is on the rise today -- it is in the millions. Does the media turn such a blind eye to the persecution and killing of Christians and Jews that we don't even know it is still going on in full force today? It hasn't stopped with the end of WWII.
http://jodyb.net/war.html
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Print...le.asp?ID=10242 (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=10242)
http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Christia...an/Persecution/ (http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Christian/Persecution/)
Communism has killed more people than the holocaust, and since the holocaust... and you won't read that in an American text book either.
Fantastic thread.
Asher Kaufman, (sp?) an archeologist wrote a fairly famous article for Biblical Archeology Review. He maintained that the actual sight for the holy of holies is on the northern part of the temple mount on a spot called the cupola of the tablets, (something like that) Point being, look at an ariel picture of the temple mount, the northern portion is nearly empty. The Dome of the Rock is not in the way if Asher Kaufman is correct. They could actually set up the wilderness tabernacle, (seems to me anyhow) in rather short order without actually constructing a masonry building.
My personal belief is that we are in fact in the last days, mostly because the Jews have Jerusalem. "and Jerusalem shall be trod underfoot of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled..." where is that verse?
Then there is the "great falling away" that seems to be all around us. Ordained sodomites as "christian" ministers? What an abomination.
United Europe seems to be the revived Roman Empire and the ascendancy of Rome in international affairs, the city on 7 hills etc.
I don't believe in a pretrib rapture so the left behind series leaves me kinda cold, but I do believe in a 1000 year reign of Christ on earth, and a rapture at the return of Christ, and one final battle etc.
Under Julian the apostate the Jews were allowed and actually funded by Rome to rebuild the temple, but they were run off the mount by "subteranean eruptions of balls of fire and something akin to tornadoes. Then Julian was killed in battle. Julian had funded the Jews not because of his love for them but because of his hatred of Christians. He wanted to spite them by exalting the Jews. Most amazing events.
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