Atheists are idiots

[280man]

The fool has said in his heart, "there is no God."

An expanding universe proves a beginning. It is extremely simple. There must be a prime mover to begin the beginning, something outside and superior to the material world.

Even human consciousness proves a realm beyond the material. Unless you deny self-consciousness.

[Havok]

thats somewhat deep, and i love the arguement.

THanks for your input!

[Santafeur]

I'm not a thinking man. I'm not much of an intellectual. but even I can poke holes in that without trying.

an expanding universe does, in fact, involve a beginning. but theres no need for a god to be that beginning.

human conciousness is indeed marvelous. but that doesn't mean that it has always been (in the form of an invisible man who currently lives in the clouds and is keeping score on each and every one of us, if it comes to it).

and then theres the fact that an omniscient and omnipotent being, who has all choices known to him and their possible outcome (which in effect negates any choice he could actually make) in itself proves itself impossible.

but keeping with the intellectual level of the opening statement, people who believe in god are doody heads. :)

[Tunug]

even I can poke holes in that without trying.
an expanding universe does, in fact, involve a beginning. but theres no need for a god to be that beginning.

What then would you call the cause/creator of the universe which itself is not bound by the laws of the universe? With a blind statement and no argument to back it up, you didn't poke holes in anything. You haven't in any way shown that this statement is false or impossible:
An expanding universe proves a beginning. It is extremely simple. There must be a prime mover to begin the beginning, something outside and superior to the material world. ... a very sound and logical statement, 280.

human conciousness is indeed marvelous. but that doesn't mean that it has always been (in the form of an invisible man who currently lives in the clouds...

I can see you haven't really thought this through since you equate the Creator of the universe with something like Santa Clause and flying reindeer.

and then theres the fact that an omniscient and omnipotent being, who has all choices known to him and their possible outcome (which in effect negates any choice he could actually make) in itself proves itself impossible.

Since the cause/Creator of the universe is itself not bound by time, space, or any laws governing the universe, why would it be bound by your logic? or anyone's logic for that matter, regardless if it makes reasonable sense to anyone?

One thing that is a proven fact is that most non-thinking non-intellectual people are more certain of their own limited understanding's accuracy, while the thinking man is less certain that their understanding is accurate therefore asks more questions an keeps a much more open mind to possibilities that are "outside the box." This is why the greatest contributions to humanity have been by the greatest intellectuals -- the most open-minded and creative individuals. God said he created man in His image which includes our power to question, reason, and create. To deny where we come from is to deny what we are and to deny this ability. This is why this statement is true:
The fool has said in his heart, "there is no God."

Case and point:
I'm not a thinking man. I'm not much of an intellectual... people who believe in god are doody heads.

[BlenderWizard]

True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing

-Socrates

-EDITED-

Did read "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing," but I like the above translation better.

[cowboy117]

Originally posted by BlenderWizard@Apr 24 2005, 03:21 PM
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.

-Socrates
I think Socrates had it right.As a mortal,i don't know enough to make an informed decision,therefore i am an agnostic.People believe in the supernatural because of the way they were brought up,for the most part I.M.H.O.I was brought up in the church and it has taken many years to flush most of the dogma out of my system.Think how much we could accomplish if we were brought up in secular homes.Science,medicine and technology in general,are at amazing levels now;think how much further along we would be. :usa:

[Havok]

We as humans don't know how protons and neutrons are held together, or why these particals have 'charge'

or what is the depth of the bottom of the ocean..

or anything outside our solar system, basically.

or how black holes function.

or how human brains function.

and on and on...


so for anybody to say for sure that anything exists. well, thats just bred into your heart.

[BlenderWizard]

No, you guys sorta went off in another direction than I was intending. My point was that about 99.9% of what we "know" is theory, and that belief in God is is no less plausible than anything else.

[swill269]

:o
280man,
in the same context; i ask you, where did your god come from then?
:cool:

[tri70]

Animals do not ponder deep thoughts on the universe or were God came from, the beginning and end. They ponder what with they eat or what will eat them, the same thing they have always done from there beginning.

-tri :usa:

[IVM]

Atheists are not idiots- they are not foolish for their belief. They are simply not enlightened. :)

Remember- there is no hope for a fool, but there is always hope for the unenlightened.

[Tunug]

Remember- there is no hope for a fool, but there is always hope for the unenlightened.

cool quote, IVM! I just learned something in reading it! It's really got me thinking.

I was once an atheist -- or maybe an agnostic -- I'm still not sure we have determined the difference. I did not believe there was a God. I was not an idiot, nor was I enlightened. I may or may not have been a fool, but I might consider that I was foolish.

To believe finally and totally that there is no God or to decide that there may be a God but be finally and totally against Him is foolish. This is called blasphemy and is the only sin considered unforgivable. I never really understood why until now. It explains why this statement is true:
The fool has said in his heart, "there is no God."
They explain each other actually. Blasphemy can not be forgiven because it is something that is done in the heart which makes a person a fool. A fool creates blasphemy, and blasphemy makes a fool. Only a fool would totally and finally believe there is no God or be against God. And, only a fool will not accept God's grace to be forgiven. Therefore, blasphemy is unforgivable because of the fool's decision, not God's.

I think the difference between atheist and agnostic is becoming more clear. Let me check the dictionary once more:
Agnostic - a person who thinks that nothing can be known about the existence of God || a person who thinks that knowlege about all matters is relative (meaning the truth is different for me than it is for you).
Atheism - the denial of the existence of God || Godless in belief.

On one hand we have the agnostic who believes that nothing can be understood and believes that truth is different, depending on what one believes. Not very logical, but a way to make sense of the matter of the existence of God when the existence of God is something they do not want to believe in.
On the other hand we have the atheist who is more progressed down this school of thought and has denied the reality of God and become Godless.

It is all a procession of foolishness because of refusal for enlightenment. It leads to a point where one becomes so hardened against the reality of God that he becomes an unforgiveable fool.

At what point does one become the fool? I think it impossible to say. We can not know what is in the heart of another. Only an individual knows what is in his heart, and only a fool does not know his own heart. Therefore, once one becomes the fool, he has lost the ability to understand his own heart and does not even know he is the fool. God is the only one who knows our hearts, so God is the only one who knows who are fools.

If there is still an understanding of the heart, and the heart still wants to understand, I think that person is no fool at all. There is still hope for him from God because there is still hope in him for God.

[IVM]

A fool truly refuses to accept that what they know may not be the absolute truth. Only the absolute truth is absolute, not your personal knowledge. Someone who has never known God or has never been shown how to see or find God is not a fool because they have never known- someone who has been shown and has seen but refuses to believe is truly a fool indeed.

[tri70]

When we look at what we choose to believe and worship or not worship I think we should look at the past as well as present and future. People say science has figured out so many things like micacles of modern medicine we have a variety of pills to choke on! :D We look back at the advances of snake oil and the wagon variety shows with modern cures of the day. :lol: Today they read off 2 pages of side affects for the new medicine, it creates almost worse problems than it cures. :( What will they say 100 years from now about the snake oils of today. Should we believe in a righteous God or things that man tells us or don't tell us. I've been robbed, cheated, and lied to from everyone I know has done something to me. I forgive them and still friends with them but only close to my wife now. I know men and women will let me down and will be prepared for it. I believe my God will always provide for if pray and worship Him, study his word and lift my worries up to Heaven. Believe what you want, everything that is manmade has failed me at sometime in my life.
I believe also I should have died in 1993 in a motorcycle crash at over 100+ mph out running cops! Today my God has me teaching a sunday school class. All fines paid, own a house a truck, camper, 3 kids and wife stays at home!! I live well for $34,000 /yr.

-tri :usa:

[Tunug]

And who has had the opportunity to wonder of God? Who has been faced with the decision to choose?

[swill269]

:o :o :o

"here we go 'round the mulberry bush"...

"merrily, merrily, life is but a dream. row, row, row your boat..." :beer:
:cool:

P.S. i choose nursery rhymes as my form of expression here in honor of "swordslinger"s like usage of the scriptures. :samurai: :D
:usa:

[Tunug]

:samurai: :ph34r:


:D :beer:

[tri70]

:lol: :beer: :D

[280man]

smart folks that believed in a personal God...

http://www.myfortress.org/greatchristiansc...scientists.html (http://www.myfortress.org/greatchristianscientists.html)

[tri70]

cool site 280!!

[Tunug]

Excellent site! Those with so much wisdom about creation would almost have to see the hand of God behind the intelligent design.

[Sniper]

The title to this thread seems rather judgmental.

Swill, you're too funny!!! :lol:

:sniper:

[280man]

Michael Faraday attributed some of his break throughs in scientific discovery, not to the scientific process, but to divine revelation. Most amazing fellow...

http://www.slcc.edu/schools/hum_sci/physic...hy/faraday.html (http://www.slcc.edu/schools/hum_sci/physics/whatis/biography/faraday.html)

I like Faraday, because I was an old Navy electrician back in the day, and all motor theory and electrical generation theory is traced directly back to Faraday.

Sniper;

I suppose you are correct, but I was feeling froggy the day I posted it.

Apologies all around to the sensitive... (heh heh)

No insult really intended, I typed it with a broad smile on my face! LOL

[Sniper]

No offense taken on my part. I just thought it seemed rather judgmental. Just my opinion. I've got a smile on my face all the time........keeps humans on their toes.

:sniper: