View Full Version : All Religions Respected
If anyone has noticed, as times are changing, that all religions are tolerated and respected by the mainstream EXCEPT Christianity, then one must wonder why.
More and more often unbelievers try to discredit and bastardize anything held sacred -- especially by Jews and Christians in these last days. Why? The Truth of these people's beliefs pose a REAL threat to the leader of the unbelievers, and the unbelievers are made to not see or understand these underlying ramifications, lest they begin to believe. The beliefs are based on the only Truth... other beliefs are not based on Truth therefore do not pose a real threat.
Legion would not submit to any man's orders, but when Legion faced Christ, it knew it was in serious trouble and asked for death!
The leader of the unbelievers knows there is no threat to him concerning all non-Christ based religions. The events of this last century gives a curious person an idea of what religion is Truth. These events include the genocide of the Jews and now the terrorism of the Jews and Christians. It is apparent enough as it comes from an anti-Christ religion such as Islam, but because it is happening from our so-called European allies and from within our own borders, it makes it very clear that we are approaching a radical global change beginning with a world war between religions.
And some people think that this little war we are in now is all about either oil or democracy! It is about SOOO much more than that. The reasons for fighting this war could never be fully realized by the mainstream and never be sold for the general public to approve of -- much less our European allies and the UN. Rumsfeld and Bush may not even understand why they must fight this war, but nontheless, it must be accomplished. It has been won for 2,000 years, and is now by the hand of God, but on it's last legs. When there is no hope to continue to win this battle, we will see the end of God's grace and begin to experience His wrath! This is not an error on God's part, but part of the plan He put into effect from conception.
America has been the last dying hope for freedom under God. America is divided against itself. It is winning abroad but dying from within. In the end who will win and who will lose? Who will ever really realize what is actually going on? Will we continue to oppress Christianity because of it's mis-representation by false Christians? Will we learn before it is too late? Who's side will we be on?
swill269
04-19-2005, 15:35
:o
hey man, i give christianity as much respect as it gives me. i do not attempt to convert or convince everyone i have the answer. i never put down "christianity", only the "zealots" which go on and on like a recording.
i am reverent but not religious; i do not worship anything or anybody. i do respect everybody's rights to their religion/beliefs.
i have caused people to change their view of me because i have debated this subject so strongly. however i will not stand to be told i am wrong without evidence of my error not "because he said so". i and others here have alienated ourselves from some of the subscribers with this bantering.
i no longer wish to participate in the "religious chit chat" because it is not chit chat but more like road rage. you **** off everybody around you while you defend your turf. i'm taking the scenic route where we are all out for the same thing.
i apologize to anyone i offended, surprised, horrified, etc.; it was not intentional and this includes you tunug. :beer: :usa:
:cool:
This is soooo much a bigger issue than you mate, or any body else here, but your response was interesting just the same.
The persecution of Christianity in this forum is happening all over the world. It's especially noticeable in our country because it was not this bad until radical mid century changes have steadily created present times where things are much different now -- much different!! Sadly, I don't think things will ever go back to the way they were. We are globalizing now, and I just don't think there will be a reign of true Christianity until things get much much worse.
I'm not a gloom doomer, I just see where we are headed, and I know where I stand in the situations to come.
swill269
04-19-2005, 21:43
:o
well, good luck man, i wish you the best.
steve
slaphappy
04-20-2005, 08:58
I think what you percieve as persecution (on this board) are actually reactionary responses to your and some other's abrasive and militant stances on your personal brand of Christianity. I think that people (especially on the internet) take a position that they may not necessarily agree with just to counter what they see as an extreme view.
FWIW, I have seen NO persecution of Christians on this board. If anything, it's quite the opposite. Don't become what everone hates about the left...a snivelling wannabe victim. Yes, I do agree that Christianity is under attack worldwide, but you seem to really want it so you can fight it. You seem to be looking for it. It's like wishing for someone to punch your wife so you can heroicly save the day.
No, mate. I, like many Christian members, used to really like visiting this forum because of the outspoken Christianity among gun owners. But, because of the recent spiteful arguments against God, I don't visit that often. If you had followed any of my dialogues, you would have noticed and not passed premature judgment -- think before ya speak, ya know?
Yes, I do agree that Christianity is under attack worldwide, but you seem to really want it so you can fight it.
I posted this thread to maybe help people think about the current state of Christianity. No, I'm not happy about it being under attack.
slaphappy
04-21-2005, 18:21
If you had followed any of my dialogues, you would have noticed and not passed premature judgment -- think before ya speak, ya know?
No, I've followed enough. I'm just calling it like I see it. You will no doubt disagree, as you just did.
No, mate. I, like many Christian members, used to really like visiting this forum because of the outspoken Christianity among gun owners. But, because of the recent spiteful arguments against God, I don't visit that often
You alleged persecution on this board. Going from a cheerleading session to a discussion with opposing views is far from persecution.
Santafeur
04-21-2005, 20:35
are you really in a position to talk about that? every religion seems to think theirs is the most persecuted, and I've gotta admit, its a great way to polarize a majority against everybody else. come back when you have some real data that says your religion is getting more persecuted than, say, judecai, islam, mormonism, paganism, buddhism, or anything else.
I know you're being persecuted some (I'm not going to deny that) but I'm trying to get you to see that everyone else is too- even us athiests (christian bosses and coworkers can be a pain sometimes, great people that many of them are).
Originally posted by Tunug@Apr 17 2005, 05:38 PM
If anyone has noticed, as times are changing, that all religions are tolerated and respected by the mainstream EXCEPT Christianity, then one must wonder why.
You ever consider that all of this is because Christianity, unlike many other religions, is highly INTOLERANT of everyone else?
Sure, not all of them, maybe only some parts, but hey, one bad apple spoils the bunch.
Ask how many times in history the Hindus have had an inqusition. Ask how many Jews have had to convert souls? Ask how many buddhists in America tried to influence the last election? Ask the Sikhs how many people they burned alive for 400 years, 1300 to the 1700's, for not accepting their religion.
Face it. If Christianity would keep to itself people would not be so sour about it.
I've asked many times here, how am I supposed to feel as a Jew in America? Hmmm? Christians everywhere are saying "Hey, this is America! We're a Christian nation! We need good old Christian values!"
Great, so much for the freedom of religion crap. But it's ok, I haven't accepted Jesus so in YOUR eyes I'm just going to hell anyway. I'll meet you there!
-Stooxie
Originally posted by Tunug@Apr 19 2005, 07:31 PM
I just don't think there will be a reign of true Christianity until things get much much worse.
THANK YOU for providing your own answer. Look at that. Ahhh, the "reign" of Christianity. SCREW the Jews! SCREW the Hindus! SCREW the Shintos! You're all wrong and you're ALL going to hell!!!
THINK about what's coming out of your mouth and then decide why people may be going after Christianity these days.
-Stooxie
Well, in the end we are going to find out what the real truth is. There won't be different and opposing truths, there will be just one truth, and the other stories will be false. When science said that the sun was the center of the universe, there were still those that said NO, the earth is the center of the universe, and there were those that said NO, neither the sun nor the earth is the center of the universe. I suppose there were even some that said that the sun IS the center of the universe if you believe it is. The point is, just because there are different beliefs, does not mean there are different truths. We may very well learn one day that the sun IS, in a way, the center of the universe, not a geographic center but a vectoral center, meaning that all universal momentums are oriented to sustain the balance of our solar system. Astrophysicists are actually observing this anomaly these days. Who knows??? BUT, even though many answers can be argued to be plausible, there is only ONE right answer to the puzzle.
Religion is the same way. One day we will learn who the true Creator of the universe is and what is the proper way to be found in His favor and what is false. Many false religions can seem credible ONLY if they are taught to be dependant on one's beliefs are are not dependant on any absolute truth. By doing away with absolute truth, there can be any flavor of religion anyone can dream up, and with "tolerance" no one can accuse a religion of being false because "it is true IF you believe it." WELL, hogwash!!! Just as there is only one truth regarding the laws that govern the universe, there is only one truth regarding the nature of the Creator, and one way to be in His favor. Therefore there is only one true faith, and the rest are false!!
Now, I know that there are soooo many denominations regarding Christianity alone, and this would lead one to conclude that it is not plausible that God would send so many Christians to everlasting doom, because they did not get the truth 100% accurate. That is an impossibility. God said He was too great to be completely understood by men, and I think that is accurate. But, there are faiths that are proven and there are faiths that are not. As far as Jews go, God called the Jews His chosen people. There are MANY Jews who accept Christ as the messiah and there are many that don't. It is our job to seek God to find favor in Him, and it is His job to judge us. AND WE WILL ALL BE JUDGED!
Now, regarding Christ. Miracles were performed only through the Jews before Christ, and only true prophets were from God's chosen; the Jews. It has been proven in Christ's days that the miracles He performed were not tricks but truly devine miracles. For the last 2000 years, true miracles are still performed in His name. Christ was also crucified as prophesied. Christ also ROSE FROM THE DEAD as prophesied. This ressurection was proven in those days and witnessed by many. For the last 2000 years, debunkers have sought to disprove Christ's ressurection and have failed! Most of which became beleivers in Christ upon their dilligent study to debunk and sebsequent failure to do so. They realized it was TRUTH! Christ performed miracles after he rose from the dead, and many witnessed him ascend to the heavens. What religion anywhere even comes close to such amazing feats???? NONE!! Only the TRUE God can perform such miracles!
Now, you may see why Jews and non-Jew Christians alike are intolerant of false religions. For one reason, they know there is only one true God, and they know that their one true God is a jealous God, commanding His followers to not place any gods before Him and to not follow false prophets and religions.
I agree that the violence that has occurred among certain religions that call themselves Christian IS WRONG!!! I don't deny that one bit. Voilent religions are false even if they try to wear Christ on their sleeve. Before Christ's birth, God commanded his people to rise up against His enemies. Through the earthly life of Christ, God's plan for man was PEACE and will be until Christ's return. Once Christ returns, violence will be ordained by God against non-believers. Voilence will cause rivers of blood. But, today true Christian's must tolerate people who are wrong if it is the only way to keep the peace. But we are commanded to not agree with it. We tolerate it but don't agree.
I did not decide that all other religions are false, GOD DID. God says other religions are false. God also said that the last days will be as the days of Noah, where many, many will be against Him and His people. This is why it will be much worse before it gets better. The leader behind all false religions will/does have the wool pulled over his followers eyes and they will/do stand against God's chosen people. The leader is of course Lucifer, the great deceiver, the father of lies, the one who is getting much of the world to stand against Christianity. In the end, he and his followers will lose to God and His followers.
Now, you can think I am full of bull all you want. I'm not forcing anything on anybody. I am asking people to WAKE UP!! Find the truth for yourself, don't believe the lies being propagated around this world!!! Everybody owes it to themselves to search the truth in hopes that their soul will not be punished for eternity! Just like we all need to wake up to what is going on in America with gun control, and every other sort of thought control. The same deceiver who wants men disarmed and subjected to their government, also wants Christians to become drunk with power and commit violence, and also wants non-believers to see it and be disgusted to the point where they hate Christianity. It's all happening. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!
I think very clearly what I type in these messages.... This is EXACTLY why followers of Christ call all non-Christ based religions false. Because THEY ARE FALSE, plain and simple. I suggest you all find out for yourself what religion is false and what religion is TRUTH before any spout off about all religions being good except Christianity. And I hope you find the answer, for your own sake!! That goes for everybody, including me! I am still studying myself! Now, PEACE!! heh heh :)
swill269
04-30-2005, 01:57
:o
tunug,
christianity has one religion which in many, many ways parallels it. like condemning nonbelievers, spreading/converting/conquering at all costs, "the" only "one" way out, and it is "islam".
christianity might be taking a hit or two here on the forum and in the hood but it is very strong in the US right now. muslims around the world are suffering because of a handful of zealots in a poor ignorant society have become "pirates" for allah.
:cool:
Santafeur
04-30-2005, 03:04
you know, I think it's worth mentioning that the kinds of posts in here are exactly why so many people are against religion in general. because of people like Tunug, I never want to be associated with the christians (much less an invisible man who tells them to do the sh** they do) while alive, much less be stuck with them for eternity after I die. to this end, heaven and hell could theoretically be the same place, because it'd be hell looking for a way out of a place with only an entrance.
Originally posted by Tunug@Apr 29 2005, 10:16 PM
I did not decide that all other religions are false, GOD DID.
Well if my god and your god are the same, The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, then why
might I be wrong and you be right?
Tunug, I'm not trying to antagnonize you, believe me!
Just please realize that other religions have every bit as much evidence and you do about
who's right and who's wrong.
But, to address your original point, Christianity is very "outgoing", I'll put it that way,
and it's not always in a positive way.
-Stooxie
Don't you think you have 4 to 1 picking on Tunug, easy fellas, keep it civil! :D Remember in the Middle today if you are not a Muslim then you die, if you did not agree with the authority in power you die. Sadam led his on crusade against his own people 1.7 million people still can not be found, 300,000 found in graves.
Bush has not kill any Americans that disagree with him. :D
-tri :usa:
Originally posted by tri70@Apr 30 2005, 04:25 AM
Bush has not kill any Americans that disagree with him. :D
-tri :usa:
That last point is debatable depending on your point of view... Bush himself called it a crusade.
Stooxie,
I think that I mentioned this before, but I don't remember your answer.
Well if my god and your god are the same, The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, then why
might I be wrong and you be right?
If you read your Bible there are many references to the Messiah, some describe Him as the suffering servant and some describe Him coming with judgement. So which is right? The answer is both when you consider that He already came once and He is coming again. The point is when He comes in judgement do you want to stand on your own merits? Remember what Isaiah said:
Isa 64:6 But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind,
Have taken us away.
7 And there is no one who calls on Your name,
Who stirs himself up to take hold of You;
For You have hidden Your face from us,
And have consumed us because of our iniquities.
... or do you want Him to substitute His righteousness for you. That is why the Christ came and what He can do for all who call on His name.
Swill... check this out... it's a wierd one....
I heard something quite interesting the other day on an interview with a scholar of Islam that I would like to investigate. This person said that the origional religion of Islam was created to bring an enlightenment to the Arabs regarding two basic beliefs that are lost to and in opposition to Islam and the koran today. These are: 1. Jesus Christ is the true Messiah. 2. The Jews are God's (Allah's) chosen people!!!
Yeah!!! this blew my mind, because the person was very educated and spoke with a conviction that was very passionate about trying to get this information considered by the Arabs today. She Said Islam was formed to enlighten and turn the Arabs around regarding Arab beliefs on God, make them realize they should have an equal society, and be at peace with the Jews... and what happened was the opposite; the religion was created to subject the Arabs to the ways of Isreal... but instead the Arabs subjected Islam to the ways of the Arabs. This person identified mainstream Islam (not just radical Islam) as being in opposition to the original beliefs of Islam; mainstream Islam doesn't understand it's true roots and how they were changed. This woman did not call herself a Christian... but a devout Muslim.
I sure want to see what truth there is in these statements.
Stoox..
But, to address your original point, Christianity is very "outgoing", I'll put it that way, and it's not always in a positive way.
I agree man and I dont like it. I know I sound militant at times.... sorry that I do. I'm not militant, but vocal... All we can do on an online forum is exchange ideas, and I like to provoke thought, not violence (manly cuz I provoke my own thoughts as well). I think that if any religion contains the correct truth, it should be outgoing... but i see that in most outgoing religions, leaders become drunk with power and begin to pervert the religion. This is mainly why I like to seperate the ideas of faith and spiritual life from the concept of "religion." In general conversation though, I can't seperate them because many people dont see a difference between religions and faiths. To me.. faiths (or beliefs) are truths we all individually must seek to understand using discernment of our spirit. Religion is more of a set guideline created by men, based on faiths, to govern other men, which usually has to be spoon fed to the masses because they dont want to take on their own individual pilgrimages to seek Truth and question what they are taught by men against what they are taught by their spirit.
I figure that the only way to get to the Truth of the matters is to hack away at the perversions that are trying to keep us from seeing what God intends for us to learn. I think Christianity is being perverted in some ways just as Islam may have been perverted. But... there has got to be some intent behind it all that was once true and good... and I know it lives on in people... few, but they are out there.
Originally posted by Tunug@May 1 2005, 06:53 AM
I figure that the only way to get to the Truth of the matters is to hack away at the perversions that are trying to keep us from seeing what God intends for us to learn. I think Christianity is being perverted in some ways just as Islam may have been perverted. But... there has got to be some intent behind it all that was once true and good... and I know it lives on in people... few, but they are out there.
Yeah, I don't know to what extend Christians are supposed to carry that out. Like I said,
Jews just don't seem to have that problem. The reform movement is about as wayward
as it gets and it's still plenty Jewish enough that no one cares.
Personally I think it's the New Testament that dictates so much unrest. It's very
carefully written to make you see the devil in all sorts of things (like other
people's arguments) and to respond. On the other hand, it's so vague that
literally anything can be interpreted from it.
I guess you just have to decide when you are comfortable with your compliance and
quit worrying so much about everyone else. Does the New Testamanent really
say that your chances of being saved are diminished unless you "spread the word"?
-Stooxie
If you read your Bible there are many references to the Messiah, some describe Him as the suffering servant and some describe Him coming with judgement. So which is right?
I was speaking here about the old testament.
Look at my other post, and do you have an answer?
Does the New Testamanent really
say that your chances of being saved are diminished unless you "spread the word"?
nope!
it doesn't say anything about "chances"
one is either saved or is not depending on if they accept Christ as their lord and savior.
Actually, the New Testament is pretty straightforward. The only hard to understand part was the part about prophesy of the end times, but it also simply explains that end time prophesy will be hard to understand until we are actually in the end times; just like trying to explain an electronic calculator to Euclid would be difficult unless he lived in these times. Much of end time prophesy has been fulfilled and is very easy to understand these days.
God told us it is good to spread the word. How do ya do that? teach it and live it. Any other way just isn't genuine.
there is nothing we can go out and do to become saved. We are saved only by God's grace in sacrificing his son. all we gotta do is accept that.
Is easy to accept death as the final answer of your life or would it be more comforting to not be affraid and accept it as another phase to move to a better life. All the pain and sorrow will be gone, the tears will be wiped away by our father in heaven, just as we do as fathers on earth to comfort our own children. We have love for our families on earth and our hearts can break but there is comfort in death if they believe that Christ is our Lord and saviour, our comforter and Holy father. Men struggle in vain for riches and finding happiness, all things that are temporary. When we help someone in need, wether we know them or not, is the only happiness that last. The Bible calls it storing up treasure in Heaven, and He will reward us on earth openly for things done in his name, but not in arogance. I'll live for a life to come not the one I have, I know I'll go thru storms in life and have times of trouble and sorrow. I'll train my kids to be good to everyone and respectful, giving, loving, sharing. I know there are abusive people all around me, christian and other. My faith is in Christ and a life to come in heaven, be there with me!
-tri ;) :usa:
This person said that the origional religion of Islam was created to bring an enlightenment to the Arabs regarding two basic beliefs that are lost to and in opposition to Islam and the koran today. These are: 1. Jesus Christ is the true Messiah. 2. The Jews are God's (Allah's) chosen people!!!
welp.... I cant find any source to back this up.... and I dont care. If Islam ever was a Christian religion... it sure isnt now... so so what. forget I ever mentioned the above.
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