What's the poor mans sniper rifle?

[Enforcer]

I have thought about getting an SKS, slapping a new stock, bipod, and a scope on it but I think there is an even cheaper alternative. A Mosin Nagant, I can get one for about 75$. If I get a stock and a nice sling for it and maybe a bipod I think it can make a good sniper rifle. As I don't have much money I think it may be the poor mans sniper rifle, like the SKS. But I think even cheaper, how will the Mosin Nagant do as a sniper rifle?

[mikr]

An SKS is nowhere near what can be qualified as a "sniper" weapon. I would look towards a used Rem 700 for around $300 and look to spend around $1,200 for good optics (USO or NightForce), or at the worst, a SWFA (no, not trashco) Super Sniper for $400. Expect to spend another thousand or so to have the action trued, bedded to a decent stock as well as rebarrelled with a good barrel.

Real MN snipers go for well beyond $400, whenever you can even find one--not counting the PU scope and mount.

And set aside plenty of money for match type ammunition bought with preferably the same lot number amongst all of them.

Also, there is no real bipod option for a sniper's MN. You do not want to affect barrel harmonics and deflection

[Enforcer]

I can get the rifle for about 75$. All I need then is a scope, I know the Mosin Nagant is old, the SKS is too but it's a versatile rifle. I wont be able to afford hundreds of dollars for a scope, maybe about 100-125$ for a scope, as long as it's a descent scope then it's fine.

[Tailgunner]

What your discribing is a scoped deer rifle for use under 200yd.
If you want a true "sniping" rig, your looking at 2500 bucks to start, and a few hundred hours of practice firing at extended ranges.

Considering your other posts, you need to do some serious research on the topic, and not depend on what you see in the video games.

[mikr]

Originally posted by Tailgunner@Apr 5 2005, 07:31 AM
What your describing is a scoped deer rifle for use under 200yd.
If you want a true "sniping" rig, your looking at 2500 bucks to start, and a few hundred hours of practice firing at extended ranges.

Considering your other posts, you need to do some serious research on the topic, and not depend on what you see in the video games.
+1


Enforcer,
If you want an MN, then look for one that is not a "forced match" for headspacing, and inspect the bore and crown for darkness, pitting and wear. Of course you would have to go along with your buddy who will be buying the rifle under his name on the 4473 and pick it out in front of the dealer, who may tell your buddy "not to lie for the other guy".

[Coyote]

An SKS is nowhere near what can be qualified as a "sniper" weapon. I would look towards a used Rem 700 for around $300 and look to spend around $1,200 for good optics (USO or NightForce), or at the worst, a SWFA (no, not trashco) Super Sniper for $400. Expect to spend another thousand or so to have the action trued, bedded to a decent stock as well as rebarrelled with a good barrel.


I totally agree. And we should be using the works of "Counter Sniper weapon" instead of Sniper weapon. That just bring a bad taste to most folks mouth. :ph34r:

I would think the Rem 700 or the Savage rifle - would make a good long range weapon. The price you quoted $1200 seem pretty well in the range of a good rifle. Mine is the Savage 10 FP LE1 /308 - with a McMillan stock and the SWFA super sniper 10X scope. Although I have not had the action trued, bedded or barreled - my groups at 400 yards - (if I do my part) are very pleasing. If I hunted - and I do not - a chuck at 400 yards would have a pretty bad day with this weapon. As I am sure we have all heard time and time again - you get what you pay for. ;)

To add a little more to the picture - a friend has a Mosin Nagant rifle.
Something like the photo below. He loves it. I know its one of the weird calibers and his range is not very good past 100 yards - but he has a blast with it.

http://www.a-izquierdo.com/Armas/Mosin%20Nagant%20Sniper.jpg

[slaphappy]

I've looked at a lot of MNs, because I think they are pretty cool, and $75 probably won't get you one that you want to use. Maybe a year or two ago it would, but you probably need to speend $100 to $125 for one with a good bore. This is from what I have seen at the local shows. I like the M44 carbines myself. I think those would make awesome truck guns. The fact is, if you don't have enough money for a good scope, you aren't going to have a "sniper" rig no matter what gun you choose, and if you did have enough money for a good scope, you wouldn't choose a MN. It should blast the hell out of some animals though.

[Enforcer]

Well...then it looks like I wont be getting a sniper rifle, that's way too expensive for me. The Mosin Nagant with a scope will do I suppose.

[scruffy]

Originally posted by Enforcer@Apr 5 2005, 10:08 AM
The Mosin Nagant with a scope will do I suppose.
Will do for what? :huh:

Are you still in school?

later,
scruffy

[Coyote]

His quote was:
I think it may be the poor mans sniper rifle

then

[/QUOTE]The Mosin Nagant with a scope will do - I suppose.


Will do for what? Are you still in school? later, scruffy [QUOTE]

Come on scruffy - were not English majors - here --- ;)

and lots of folks can not afford some of the play toys we have - hell - I can not afford them - keep having to find things to trade or work extra - got to quite buying guns - and start shooting them - :ar15:

[scruffy]

ok coyote, let me rephrase it, "What are you sniping?" and "how old are you, still in school?"

I wasn't infering he had bad english and should be in school, heck, I can't spell worth a lick, I have no room to talk... :lol:

later,
scruffy

[gordito]

Why would anybody buy a crappy old russki rifle for "sniping"??? Enemy at the Gate was not that good a movie... Something tells me that there has to be a more accurate rifle in the same price range as the Mosin-Nagant on the US market.

Gordito

[Coyote]

Why would anybody buy a crappy old russki rifle for "sniping"??? Enemy at the Gate was not that good a movie

:( Geee - I thought it was pretty dang good. But re-watch the movie - their shots were pretty dang close. We all think of those shots as being hundred of yards - when in fact most of them took place under 100 yards. It was who is the best at concealing themselves and staying put to get that shot. For that purpose the old Russki rifle would work very well. In fact - I bet if we had the yardage of shots placed from sniper/counter snipers - it would surprise you how close most of them are. We (my department) shoot at 100 yards for max - because we are in a city environment - and shoot for very tight groups at that range. Too many thing to get in your way at longer ranges - houses, trees, and the such keep the range pretty close.

Beside the old Russki rifles still are pretty cool. B)

But scruffy has a good point - what the heck are you sniping ????? :blink: curious minds "have" to know. :blink:

[gordito]

Coyote, you said it!
Why sniping? With that? At what? <_<

Gordito

[mikr]

Originally posted by gordito@Apr 5 2005, 02:00 PM
Something tells me that there has to be a more accurate rifle in the same price range as the Mosin-Nagant on the US market.


There isn't anything out there in the US market in that range.

For the record, I have a nice 1937 Tula MN 91/30, which I can hit tree stumps at 400M--and usually 4 out of 5 rounds each time. I have a had a very hard time finding 91/30's without forced matches, dark bores or bare muzzle crowns. I do not like the M44 better at all, personally.

Enforcer is better off with a scoped 10/22 until his funds accrue enough to get a proper "sniper" rifle, I am still thinking he wants a deer rifle.

Edit to correct vintage year.

[gordito]

A 10/22 is a mighty fine first rifle.

If I had to get a Mosin-Nagant, I would get a 1944 Sako. Those were the very last produced Finnish M/39s. But the Swedish M/96 in 6,5x55 is a far superior milsurp rifle. And the caliber is much better than 7.62x54. A lot of moose have ended up on dinner plates as a result of every other Swedish redneck owning a restocked and scoped M/96.

Gordito

[USSR]

I can get the rifle for about 75$. ...maybe about 100-125$ for a scope

LOL, we're all poor men after we have a sniper rifle built. :rolleyes:

Don
http://people.clarityconnect.com/webpages3/ussr/Win06t1.jpg

[snowhound]

Nice one USSR!!! :D
What action is that?

[Coyote]

Looks like a Model 70 action ? How does the bi-pod hook to the stock?

And we never did find out what the original poster was sniping? ;)

[RJSIXGUN]

A really accurate poor mans Mil-surp Rifle can be made out of A Finnish M-39, I got mint VKT (VALMET) for 100 bucks it will shoot 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards with military ball ammo and open field sites. No I dont have a scope on it. But yes this was done off the bench in a rest. If you want a commercial or modern gun, there is really know reason to buy a custom made REM for 1000's of dollars when you can spend under $500 bucks for a SAVAGE 10 or 110 heavy barrel target or varmit in almost any calliber. Savage garrenties there rifles with factory ammo you should check out Savagearms.com

[mikr]

What I found at Savage was this (http://www.savagearms.com/10fple2b.htm), and that is without optics for an entry level price of $984.00.

[USSR]

Coyote is correct, Model 70. Spec's are as follows:

Trued M70 pushfeed action
Krieger 26" fluted MTU contour SS barrel in .30-06
pillar bedded McMillan A2 stock
Williams one-piece steel TG/FP
Tubb's SpeedLock FP
Jewell Trigger
Parker-Hale type bipod
Badger base and rings
Leupold 6.5-20x50LR M1 mil dot scope

Jack Krieger was the gunsmith. The bipod attaches to a spigot that was installed in the end of the stock forearm. I shoot at 1k with this rifle with a load that fires a 190SMK at 2900fps. Very flat shooting and very accurate.

Don

[gordito]

Hey USSR,

That is one nice looking rig! :)

Gordito

[BigUglyOne]

Originally posted by mikr@Apr 6 2005, 05:41 PM
What I found at Savage was this (http://www.savagearms.com/10fple2b.htm), and that is without optics for an entry level price of $984.00.
Your paying for the stock. My model 10 FP LE2 was $525.00 before glass

Savage FP LE2 (http://www.savagearms.com/10fple2.htm)

[Enforcer]

With little money I want to make the most of what I have, im looking for a good reliable and durable rifle, good for plinking fun, hunting, and the ability to be descent at sniping. Now I personally wouldnt want to do that but I still want a capiable rifle, a hard hitting deer rifle, and a descent sniper rifle in one package. I might check into that Finnish rifle, how much would a descent scope for it cost? Im talking 100-150 tops for a scope for it. Is this Finnish rifle bolt action?

[CADNazi]

The finnish rifle is a mosin nagant that the fins restocked and improved. They are the best shooting of the mosin's IMO. They are a little more expensive but well worth it. If you take this rifle and do any work on it some people would say you are destroying a piece of history. Savage makes an excellent rifle plus you can swap barrels and have a whole new caliber. You should look for one used, porbably in the $150-200 range and maybe a tasco world class or varmit scope. $200-250 dollars plus ammo and you've got yourself a much better rifle than the finnish and much easier to find ammo for.

[J Greer]

Another thought is a Schmidt-Rubin K-31. They can be found for $80-$180 dollars. The rifle features a straight pull bolt which is a lot easier to keep shouldered and work the action then any Mosin Nagant(although watch out for the cocking ring on the K-31). The bores are 99% of the time sharp and bright since the Swiss never shot corrosive ammo thru them. The original Swiss surplus ammo for the K-31 (7.5 Swiss) is a bit pricy, but it is all non-corrosive and match grade. Online rumor is Wolf is producing cheaper plinking ammo with Pvi Partizan (It will be cheaper then regular Pvi). The triggers on these rifles are also very smooth, and I beleive the best trigger of any mil-surp rifle. The fit and finish on these rifles are top of the line especially when considering they are mil-surp rifles. The only problem is the Swiss soilders sure liked too kick their rifles around because the stocks almost always have a lot of dings, dents and scratches. I don't claim to be a rifle expert, but I think if an american company tried to duplicate the original Swiss craftsmanship on a new production K-31 rifle today they would ask atleast $800-$1200 for the rifle. In short I think the K-31 is the best deal in Mil-surp.

If you have an C&R you can get K-31 at aimsurplus.com starting at $80.00 or you can have one transfered to you thru your local FFL. Another thought is if you have a Big 5 Sporting Goods store in your area you can pick up a K-31 on sale for $99.00 this week only.

[2rangers]

J.Greer-
You are absolutely correct in the K-31. Very finely made rifle, and the straight pull action is neat and orderly in use. I don't own one, but I have fired a friend's several times. No complaints here.

Enforcer, another rifle worthy of consideration is a Lee-Enfield in good condition. I would go for a later No.4 Mk.1 or 2, as the receivers are a bit stronger than the older No.1 Mk. 3's. They are easily adaptable to scope use, and with minor work, they can be good shooters, The .303 British cartridge is similar to .308 Win. in power, and is easily powerful enough for most north american game animals. As an added bonus, Should you score one w/ a decent bore and stock, but the headspace is a little off, it is easily remedied by means of the removable bolthead. Simply remove the bolt, unscrew the bolthead, and screw another on that corrects the headspace. Handloading def. helps w/ accuracy, as well as neck sizing cases only if you do handload. I have one that will literally shoot 5 bullets through one jagged hole, if I do my part. :sniper:

[Crosshair]

Howa 1500. It's the SKS of bolt actions. Cheap, yet well built and accurate enough for the purpose. Have one in .223 and I love it.

[WhiteWulf]

One thing to keep in mind is the Russian m44 fires the 7.62x54 which you are still able to find steel core ammo at very cheap prices.It will penetrate just about anything unlike most rounds today.Buy the m44 and get a nice ak for close range combat and you will be set.

[gordito]

sellier & bellot sell 7.62x54 at reasonable prices. ought to be good with a late finnish mosin-nagant. but I would still urge the owner of the thread to buy a good used american hunting bolt action rifle rather than a nordic milsurp rifle--not that i don't want to root for the swedish m/96 cal. 6.5x55.... :D

gordito :)

[Enforcer]

Well I got an AK-47 last week. A Egypitan, in descent shape except for a few worn parts on the stock. It works well, semi auto, no Bayonet however. The top wood part behind the sight is darker than the other parts of the stock but it's no biggie. The Pistol grip and back stock is all one entire peace of wood. Now I gotta get more magazines and ammo for it since I don't have one round of ammo although I did get a few free rounds which I tested out before I come home. All in all I done good for about 400$, but im broke. It used but works just fine.

[BigUglyOne]

So much for the SNIPER rifle, huh!?

[Enforcer]

I still got it planned.