What is the origin of rightness?

[cabdmd]

Some of the topics and replies really relate to ethics. So, let’s talk about what is right and wrong and from where these values come.
What makes something right or wrong?
Are right actions based upon popular opinion? I think not although many make choices based on what everyone else is doing.
Is it what is legislated as the law of the land? Again we can either look to this country now with the current laws or consider historical governments from ancient Rome, Nazi Germany, and Iraq under Saddam Hussein or North Korea. So I don’t see that one can count on government to do the right thing.
Is what would be the right choice based upon the circumstances? This is called by some situational ethics where the correct action is sometimes right and sometimes wrong. I would postulate that right is always right or that right is absolute and unchanging. OK if that is true then what is the origin of this ‘righteousness’? Think of the qualities here: unchanging, true, perfect and perpetual. I believe the answer to the origin of “right’ is God. Does this mean that God is also the origin of wrong? I would say emphatically no, and that what is wrong is the absence of God.
I welcome you to consider this.

[tri70]

All choices are influenced by forces of good and evil and the amount of light that shines from within us. Biblical ethics may sometimes contradict the ethics of government and laws. In England it is unethical to own a gun, burglars will inter your house and do harm to you and your family.

I just saw on the news that in Ft. Smith, AR a man just killed his ex-wife in broad daylight, stabbing her with a knife. The man was stocky and 4 men eventually held him down for police to arrest him. They could not stop him in time to safe her life. I wonder if there would have been a man with CW permit and handgun to stop him, would they consider him a hero or another armed villan. She was a mother of 5 children and they had a fight at the school a few minutes before he crashed his car into hers.

If I were there I would have stopped him with a gun, in my opinion it can stop an act of evil and saving a life.

-tri :usa:

[swill269]

:o
cabdmd,

which "god", there are a number of them older than the christian one. buddha teaches these qualities and even teaches the respect of other's gods. i believe he has about 3000 yrs on christianity. i beleive the hindu go back farther still with the same qualities as there goal.

i don't think christianity started the rightness movement, sorry.
:cool:

[darjeeling]

Siddartha (Budda) has about 500 years on Jesus. But by older, I guess if any of these gods are real, the real one is the old (and only one). But by human POV, the longer known to man, the older the god.

[kravman4]

Good point Darjeeling! Does anyone know when Moses penned the Pentateuch? (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy - first five books of the Bible)

[Swordslinger]

Originally posted by swill269@Jan 22 2005, 03:09 AM


i don't think christianity started the rightness movement, sorry.
:cool:
That depends on what you believe is rightousness. Some people believe blowing them selves up to kill Christians and jews is "rightous". Some folks, like me think thats evil. I beleive the examples you gave to be idolators!!! Something else I believe to be evil. Thats my right, is it not?

Steve, you fit quite well in the religion forum, "aka Bill's beer servin multiculturalist-chruch" :lol: You see, you have yourself admitted that atheism is a religion, when you said, "to thine own self be true". That is not a new religion at all, in fact it goes back to the garden of Eden when the adversary said, "Hssss Ye shall be as gods sssss" I take that to mean you worship yourself as a "god" (with an intentional small-g-) Oh, I dont doubt that there are other (small -g-)false gods . He said, "Have no other gods before Me. How could ther be no other gods if He gave us that comand?

You go on and worship yourself, and we will Worship The One True God, and let the chips fall where they may. ;) mate :)

You stated your "god's" beliefs, and I stated mine. :) No arguement, just a friendly exchange of thoughts, after all, this "church", "does not promote any particular religion." :lol:

[cabdmd]

Well I am thinking God as in Genesis rather than 2000 years ago. I was no implying that righteousness started with Jesus, but when Jesus was teaching and saying if you keep my sayings you won't see death they said you're crazy, Abraham and the prophets are dead.

Jn8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

They wanted to stone Him because the 'I am' statement meant that he said He was equal with God. So in his preincarnate state He precedes all created things, Budda et. al.

[Swordslinger]

Originally posted by tri70@Jan 22 2005, 01:55 AM
I wonder if there would have been a man with CW permit and handgun to stop him,
I am not being smart Tri, and I respect your views sincerly, so dont take this wrong, as it is intended for all that have fallen for this non-sense "Obey Ceazer, no matter what" OK? :) Please, Please do not take offense, ok? :) This is fired off to all believers in general.

Let us reason together Christians,
What would the guy do with the permit to stop the murder, hit him over the head with it?.

You see, we Christians have fallen for this nonsense that only the gov. can give the right to posses a firearm. I got news for them, if they believe in that god, they have to accept it when that god decides to take their firearms away with the stroke of a pen as we are seeing now.

Our God, and our King give us the right to self defense, and yes with the use of a weapon!!! He said, "Buy a SWORD boys, sell sompin if ya have to, but get it" The sword was as equivilent to anything Ceazer's SWAT boys were packin. Christians have done to themselves, with the help from Baal Priests. Our forefathers, a great many of which were Christian, tried with all earnesty to protect our God given right to own firearms, and carry them at arms reach. But it was WE, who let the "churches" tell us to "obey Ceazar, and do as he says, it the law of the land, the bible says so....bla bla bla." But they fail to point out that the scripture they are quoteing is that of a Romans 13 gov. that is a terror to evil doers.

There is a guy in Lexington Ky.right now sitting in jail, because after haveing his home invaded, and his wife and himself tied up, robbed, then beaten, he managed to get untied and retrieved a pistol that he had hidden in the house. He then fired at the attackers and missed. When the cops came to "investigate", they through his as$ in jail for discharging a firearm within city limits. :blink: :angry: Does that sound like a "terror to the evil doers" or does that sound like "a terror to the good" Totally oppisite of what Paul wrote of in Romans 13, is it not?

Like I said Tri, please do not take offense. It is a way of thinking, that has become almost automatic reflexes among our people, Christian and non-Christian alike. WE ARE REALLY IN A PICKLE!!! :(

[tri70]

Alot of religions can go to grave of there originators, following the ways of those who died long ago. Christians follow a living God and risen savior, we find our proof in our answered prayers. It's spritual warfare, with the pricipalities of this world, the fallen ones. I feel alot better when I get up and say the Lord prayer and then praying for others. I don't believe in sending curses on anyone, I don't think I know how, I'll pray for salvation. Those that stand against my religion or against my country will stand on top of hills and call curses to us. I think my God is protecting me from the lesser gods.

-tri :usa:

[swill269]

:o
darjeeling,

thanks; :rolleyes: that was a "belief" i did not evidence it by looking it up. :rolleyes: do you know about hindu, isn't it older?

But by human POV, the longer known to man, the older the god.that is why my POV is; man made "god". when everybody looks for you to lead and you are frightend by the responsibility and threatened by failure, "who ya gonna call?" credit for unexplained phenomenon had to be placed somewhere in the begining. the theory is being worn thinner by modern science everyday. this is our mess, we made it and we will have to make it right or continue to suffer. small problem in great abundance. i believe "the meek shall inherit the earth", because they ran and hid while the savages terminated themselves. :ph34r: "meak" is in the eye of the beholder. the strength to survive is in the heart. :beer:
:cool:

[Swordslinger]

Originally posted by tri70@Jan 22 2005, 04:11 AM
Alot of religions can go to grave of there originators, following the ways of those who died long ago. Christians follow a living God and risen savior,........................................... .........................................Those that stand against my religion or against my country will stand on top of hills and call curses to us. I think my God is protecting me from the lesser gods.

-tri :usa:
Quoted by Tri70

"Alot of religions can go to grave of there originators, following the ways of those who died long ago. Christians follow a living God and risen savior,"

Amen!!! There is rotten bones in their graves, the tomb of Christ is empty and He lives!!.
Also quoted by Tri70
,"Those that stand against my religion or against my country will stand on top of hills and call curses to us. I think my God is protecting me from the lesser gods."

Amen! and Amen!!! And He is!!

[swill269]

:lol: :lol: :lol:
swordslinger,

i do not "worship" anything, especially me. i "use" me to the best of my ability to fulfill my boy scout oath and commitment to the golden rule, that's hard enough. :usa: before you rip me for being "reverent", i have reverence for others beliefs. i would make a good scout leader but they won't let me, ain't got a church to sponsor us. ;)

what ever you believe is your right. no one has the power to change it at will, so it must be a right. :lol:

we touched on the "have no other gods before me" once before but i did not pursue. he says he is a "jealous god". jealousy is a human weakness. i believe it has some reference in a deadly sin also. this statement is a threat, which is also a human characteristic. this unnatural christian godly characteristic was created by man to coerce others into christianity, "the mission" is to convert and it always has been. they need the tithes to continue the mission, it has always needed funding.

the only material offerings in the buddhist temple are left overs from the neighbors to feed the monks and buddha is not jealous if you have another god. christianity is also the only religion that believes in hell and has no way out ever. other religions which subscribe to the hell practice also provide a way out as well as in. this gives them an edge right off the bat in popularity.
:cool:

[cabdmd]

they need the tithes to continue the mission, it has always needed funding.
Swill, God doesn't need our tithes; we give because it is a blessing for us. He is omnipotent, and we are only stewards of what we have. We can't take it with us.
Did you hear the one about the man who was soon to die and told his wife to put all his money in the attic so that he could get it on the way up.. After he died she was telling this to a friend who asked did she do it? She said yes, but it was still there...damned fool should have put it in the basement.

christianity is also the only religion that believes in hell and has no way out ever

God already has a provision for anyone to avoid Hell. His name is Jesus.

[darjeeling]

Originally posted by swill269@Jan 21 2005, 08:13 PM
:o
darjeeling,

thanks; :rolleyes: that was a "belief" i did not evidence it by looking it up.* :rolleyes:* do you know about hindu, isn't it older?

The Hindu religion is some 3500 years old. It came into being when the Arayans invaded and subdued India around 1700 BC, and eventually, the Arayan and native Indian traditions melded into Hindu aroud 1500 BC. Its may be the oldest religion that would still be recognisible to its original practicioners.

Alot of religions can go to grave of there originators, following the ways of those who died long ago.

In my humble opinion, the Christianity of the original Christians (around 100AD) died as soon as the Catholic Church was formed by the roman empire in the 4th century AD.

:ph34r:
:Ducks for cover:

[swill269]

:o
darjeeling,

while i was away i did look up hindu history. exact origin is questionable: it is believed the indus valley civilization developed a religion which bore a close relationship to hinduism around 3200BC-1600BC. this religion was influenced by the combined religious practices of the southern dravidians and the aryan invaders who arrived in north india about 1500BC. documentation is not available from 1500BC-1400BC. however in recent times the theory of aryan invaders is being repeatedly challenged. it is being widely believed the indus valley civilization died a natural death. edmound leach, a british anthropologist, has clearly rejected the aryan invasion theory and has termed it a theory born out of european racism.

around 1000BC, the Vedic scriptures were introduced, providing the first loose framework for the religion. Rig Veda was one of the first Vedas to be written.

thanks for your help. :beer:
:cool:

[swill269]

:o
cabdmd,

that story reminded me of one i heard the other day. the man's will stated all of his money was to be buried in the casket with him. after the funeral folks were asking the widow what she was going to do without money. she said she had plenty of money left. they asked how, if she put it all in the casket? she said she wrote him a check. ;)
:cool:

[darjeeling]

I just repeat what I learned in primary school. Doesn't suprise me though, the whole idea was way to cute anyways.

[cabdmd]

There is another like that where three people are asked to give money and the attorney wrote a check.

[cabdmd]

As Christians, we say that you can't take it with you, but you can send it ahead.

[darjeeling]

Originally posted by swill269@Jan 21 2005, 10:46 PM
that story reminded me of one i heard the other day. the man's will stated all of his money was to be buried in the casket with him. after the funeral folks were asking the widow what she was going to do without money. she said she had plenty of money left. they asked how, if she put it all in the casket? she said she wrote him a check. ;)
:cool:
Serves him right, he should have know when he got married that the money all goes straight to the wife .

Good point cabmd. Money isn't an end in itself, only how its used.