Bolt Action or Semi-Auto for hunting?

[stooxie]

Hello,

Just looking for some thoughts on this. I want to get into hunting and need a larger caliber than .223. Without starting a big discussion on cartridges (I'm thinking .270 Win, FYI), I was wondering if most people use bolt-actions.

Here is some criterea:

1. Medium sized game, like boar and deer
2. Not sure I'm going to be attempting 300 yard shots
3. I don't mind recoil but I don't exactly seek it either ;)
4. I do like the simplicity and accuracy of a bolt-action

Maybe the question really comes down to the "follow up shot" or not. Do people end up doing a lot of follow up shots or is it pretty much a one chance thing? I don't know if you have to be Lee Harvey Oswald to do a quick enough follow up shot with a bolt-action if necessary.

Thanks!
-Stooxie

[Sniper]

I've always llike the bolt-actions for hunting larger game. One shot-one kill; hit hard-make much blood.

:sniper:

[2rangers]

Stooxie,
1. .270 winchester is an excellent, flat shooting cartridge. It is more than powerful enough for most North American game, with the possible exceptions of maybe grizzly or very large moose or elk. Proper bullet selection and placement is necessary, of course. (I wouldn't use a 90 grain varmint bullet for mule deer, etc.)
2. 300 hundred yard shots are of course possible, but I would probably stalk to a more reasonable range, like 200, if possible. That being said, however, I have friends that pop woodchucks at 400-500 yds w/ a 22-250, and a very powerful scope. I have personally taken elk at 320 w/ .303 british(!)
3. Recoil w/ a 270 is no worse , and sometimes less than .30-06, .308, and .303 brit. Remember, the .270 generally fires a lighter bullet than .30 cal., and the case holds no more powder than a .30-06, wich it is based on (generally speaking). recoil is a perceived thing, and a trained response. There are some clever exercises you can do to see if you flinch. Use the dummy round method. It will def. sharpen your skills.
4. Yeah, bolt guns are the epitome of simplicity, unless you talk about single shots. They generally are more accurate, to boot. The only problem w/ semi's is that you really won't find too many in .270, unless you rechamber one. You may also find that a (if necessary) follow up shot can actually be quite rapid w/ a bolt gun. However, I would always strive for 1 shot drop. If you go into the hunt with the mentality of needing a follow up shot, then you you might want to rethink your hunting stategy. After all, isn't it the sniper's, I mean hunters first responsibility a quick, clean kill? :sniper:

[stooxie]

Originally posted by 2rangers@Jan 3 2005, 06:30 PM
Stooxie,
1. .270 winchester is an excellent, flat shooting cartridge. It is more than powerful enough for most North American game, with the possible exceptions of maybe grizzly or very large moose or elk. Proper bullet selection and placement is necessary, of course. (I wouldn't use a 90 grain varmint bullet for mule deer, etc.)
2. 300 hundred yard shots are of course possible, but I would probably stalk to a more reasonable range, like 200, if possible. That being said, however, I have friends that pop woodchucks at 400-500 yds w/ a 22-250, and a very powerful scope. I have personally taken elk at 320 w/ .303 british(!)
3. Recoil w/ a 270 is no worse , and sometimes less than .30-06, .308, and .303 brit. Remember, the .270 generally fires a lighter bullet than .30 cal., and the case holds no more powder than a .30-06, wich it is based on (generally speaking). recoil is a perceived thing, and a trained response. There are some clever exercises you can do to see if you flinch. Use the dummy round method. It will def. sharpen your skills.
4. Yeah, bolt guns are the epitome of simplicity, unless you talk about single shots. They generally are more accurate, to boot. The only problem w/ semi's is that you really won't find too many in .270, unless you rechamber one. You may also find that a (if necessary) follow up shot can actually be quite rapid w/ a bolt gun. However, I would always strive for 1 shot drop. If you go into the hunt with the mentality of needing a follow up shot, then you you might want to rethink your hunting stategy. After all, isn't it the sniper's, I mean hunters first responsibility a quick, clean kill? :sniper:
Thanks for the info, this is great!

For the sake of argument, what about the Browning BAR Safari? There's an autoloader in .270 that seems to get great reviews. I am going back and forth between that and the Ruger M77 Mark II bolt action.

Thanks again for your help.

-Stooxie

[BT 223]

The people I've talked to who own or have shot BAR's say they aren't
as good the Remington 7400's. As far as a bolt gun goes you might
look at Savage, thier guns are every bit as accurate, more so in my
opinion, than Ruger,Rem,Win. and the accu-trigger is great, My .300
win mag. Savage 110 shot a 2" 5/8 group at 300 yds, out of the box.
Not bad for a $500 gun.
:sniper:

[stooxie]

Originally posted by BT 223@Jan 4 2005, 10:07 AM
The people I've talked to who own or have shot BAR's say they aren't
as good the Remington 7400's. As far as a bolt gun goes you might
look at Savage, thier guns are every bit as accurate, more so in my
opinion, than Ruger,Rem,Win. and the accu-trigger is great, My .300
win mag. Savage 110 shot a 2" 5/8 group at 300 yds, out of the box.
Not bad for a $500 gun.
:sniper:
Thanks, I hadn't considered Savage but they seem to have some nice differentiators: adjustable trigger, free float barrel, pillared stock. So where does Savage cut corners to maintain so many features with such a low price point? Why does Ruger never do that stuff? Are they resting on their laurels somewhat?

As for the Savage, what would be the difference between the long action and short action with .270?

-Stooxie

[BT 223]

Savage saves money in many ways, the most obvious is the barrel locking
nut. This is visible in front of the reciever. Some people don't like the look
of this, it never bothered me. The other ways they cut cost I'm not completely sure about.

Long or short action depends on the cartridge .308 is short, 30-06 is long
.270 is a long cartridge.

[TPW]

Aside from calibre and all that good stuff, it depends on how well you shoot a rifle. Some feel they may need to get off a quick second shot, in that case the semi-auto is for you.

[darjeeling]

To be perfectly honest, either bolties or Semis will be perfectly adequate for any reasonable and responsible (as well as many unreasonable and unrespoonsible) hunting shots. Accuracy is not really the issue here, because a good hunting rifle doesn't need to really be beyond 1.5moa accuracy to work for any responsible hunting shot. It's gonna be offhand shooting anyways, so that extra accuracy you'll get from a tactdriver will be all but negated from imperfect fireing conditions. The reason for going bolt or semi would be dependent on what you like in a rifle. Bolties are a little easier to use, as well as easier to clean and clear bore obstructions on. The semis have better follow-up shot capabilities, as well as slightly lower recoil. All in all, the boltie is probably a slightly better choice, but if you like semis, go for it!

[TPW]

I disagree with you DARJEELING. Off hand shooting is exactly why a semi is better. You can get the second shot off in a blink of an eye if you need it. In addition, bolt action rifles are not easier to use than semi autos. Where did you every get that idea! In a hunting situation thats not true. With a bolt action you must go through a series of mechanical movemets to chamber a second shot and fire. At the very least, you will loose your sight picture. With a semi auto you are always looking at the target, and it's just a matter of squeezing the trigger!

[darjeeling]

Well, It's a little easier for me at least. The difference is small though. There are less operating controls on a bolt. All said and done, I don't have a overwhelming prefernce either way. Since I have no hunting capable semis, I lean towards the bolt. If I had a good semi, I would probably have no preference.

The lack of need to manualy rechamber a round is the whole reason I'd suggest a semi. It is by no means hard to work a bolt, and if people have lost hunting shots because of this, they didn't deserve em'. I'd probably have to agree with most of what you said TPW, but ease is a relitive term anyways, and none of these actions are even moderately difficult to operate.

[stooxie]

Thanks for the opinion.

I am pretty much settled on the Tikka T3 Laminated Stainless (bolt action, of course).

I DO like the Browning BAR Safari a lot but I think I would rather have the simplicity of maintenance and strength of action. Also, as darjeeling said, ease of breakdown, cleaning and care is a plus as well. I have semi-auto pistols and they are finicky enough (despite being Sig, Ruger and Kimber). I think for something with a .270 Win wallop I don't want to even THINK about jamming or stove piping, etc.

As for needing a followup shot, I dunno. I do like the idea of one hit one kill, and if you missed well, the animal wins. Maybe I will think differently after stalking some deer in the freezing cold al day. ;)

-Stooxie

[TPW]

STOOXIE........Missing is not the problem. Hitting the animal and wounding it is the problem. A semi auto allows you to get a quick second shot off to fininsh the hunt. Unless your a good tracker and it's not late in the day and have to worry about darkness, the animal will die a slow agnoyzing death, and will probably get ripped apart by wild dogs.
As for stove bolting or jamming, I've been hunting for 35 years with semi-autos and have never had the problem. Keep your rifle clean and shoot the proper ammo and it is very unlikely to happen.

[R&R.45]

you'd be ahead to get a 308, for the 15c per shot milsurp practice ammo. the Extended range 308 loads make them very capable of 400 yd shots on big game, and very VERY few men are skilled enough to make such shots, on any load, with any rifle or scope, from any firing position. Williams Trigger Specialties, in ILL, can make the BAR'S trigger very nice, better than a lot of factory bolt action triggers. The BOSS compensator on the BAR lets you "tune" your barrel's vibrations for best accuracy with any load.

Any animal can take a 1/2 step in 1/4 second. Any time the range exceeds 200 yds, you risk having the animal move and be gut hit.

[slaphappy]

I saw a savage 7mm Rem Mag with a scope at a gun show last month for less than $350. It was slightly used, but I am kicking myself for not picking it up. I am almost positive I will buy a Savage as my next rifle. The value just seems to be unbeatable. On bolt vs semi, if you ever want to get into handloading, there are probably some loads you wouldn't want to attempt on a semi that you could do just fine with in a bolt. Just a thought.

[farmerjohn]

if your going to be hunting in cold weather go with the bolt, the semi will freeze up on ya

farmerjohn