how to tell if a FAL is pre-992R?

[guncats]

saw a inch FAL in a local gunshop today, really good condition (in my oppinion "perfect"), asking $550.....
The problem is, all the parts look original, including all the possible "US" parts, and there is an "Argentina"stampe. well I think the parts kit must be from argentina, and with a Imbel receiver from Brazil and no obvious UA made parts, I am not sure if this gun was legally put together......

The shop owner (very nice guy, have known him for quite a while now) told me it is a pre-ban kind of thing, so my question is : is there such thing as an all foreign part pre-ban kit rifle? if it is pre-ban, does it mean it is pre-922r? if it is indeed possible, how can I tell if this FAL is one of these pre-ban or pre-922r? is there a serial # I can check?

Thanks a lot for any info!

[guncats]

if it is not a pre-922r, is $550 still a good deal? I think I can put 7 US parts on it without spending too much money( an extra $50 for hammer/sear/trigger, $80 for stock/grip/hand guard, and a $40 flag-pole charging handle.....crap! already added up to $170!)......

[surbat6]

The price sounds pretty good, whether pre-, post- or post-post ban. I put the US-made parts on my son-in-law's Stg58 (DSA receiver) and NONE of them were marked. We kept the paperwork to prove compliance. As I recall, the compliance parts cost over $200.

[guncats]

Thanks for the info Surbat.... :D
did you build that STG58 from parts kit with DSA receiver? how much did it cost to complete the whole project (all the parts/us parts, smithing charge and such)?


I just found out I can not use a G3 type rifle (these isn't a bolt lock release so one will have to pull the charging handle for each reload, but the charging handle is too hard to reach for a lefthanded person), so the FAL is pretty much my only hope in a 308 semi, I really don't want to have to get a $1.5k bushmaster or AR-10......

[surbat6]

I didn't build it, my son-in-law took the (IIRC) $400 receiver and the $220 parts kit -with AGI instructional video-(hand-picked) to a smith...I don't know what the smith charged him to assemble, but it was almost 3 years until he got it, partly due to the smith installing the selector, rather than a new S/F lever. That allowed the hammer to follow the bolt home when the lever was set to the position where "auto" would be on an original. The gunsmith wouldn't release the gun, due to concerns about safety, even when I told him what caused the problem and that he could keep the F/A part (I'd intended to replace it anyway). When we got it home, I had the compliance parts already in hand and we installed them right away. The rifle's final price tag ended up around a grand, but it's a beauty! He needed money recently, but my daughter and I talked him out of selling it.

[RoosterTac]

I don't think that there are any pre-ban Imbel rifles in the country but I will check with some others people I know to make sure.

[RoosterTac]

Ok, consensus that we have come to is that there is no such thing as a Pre-ban FAL with Imbel receiver in the US, especially on an Inch kit.

But we have also come to the consensus that if the rifle is in good shape, that you should buy it and add the correct number of US parts. That should be able to be done for about $100-$150

[guncats]

an extra $150-$200 :blink: Then the total will be $700-$750......

or can I get a heavy barrel DSA built using their all new US parts, for about 1k?
(or am I just dreaming, the heavy barrel DSA's are a lot more?)

I want something that will go sub 1.5moa with premium ammo, if it is too hard for a standard FAL to do then might as well save up for a AR-10 or a DSA HB......both above $1.5k?

[RoosterTac]

In all actuality, you can build a sub 1.5 MOA FAL yourself for less than $700.

STG-58 Kit $250-$300
DCI Receiver $200
DSA H/T/S $65
Penguin Furniture Set $50


Or you can cut cost even more and go with

Imbel or SA Kit $170-$200
Imbel Receiver $175
DSA H/T/S $65
Penguin Furnitre Set $50
Tapco Gas Piston $20

[guncats]

Thanks for all your info's!!

I went back to the store during lunch and did a quich check on the gun:
There isn't any logo on the receiver, except the "Argentina" stamp (problem is I don't remember if it is on the upper or lower receiver!) . The reason I said it was an Imbel was because the tag said "inch Imbel FAL". This is a consignment gun, so the tag info was provided by the owner. The store guy will try to get more info on it, hopefully in the next few days.

Now how do I know for sure that is an Imbel receiver? what kind of marking does the infamous Hesse have? I think Enterprise and DSA all have clear marking that I couldn't have missed...

Thanks again!

[RoosterTac]

The receiver manufacturer will be identified in writing on the receiever itself. This will be on the upper receiver as it is the controled part on a FAL. The best thing to do would be to have a look at the rifle and write down all the markings you can find and where they are located (left side, right side, upper receiver, lower receiver, etc.) With this information we will be able to properly identify the make and model of the FAL.

[guncats]

Thanks Rooseter...

alright, went back to the shop after work and took a magnify glass with me(literally), and here is what I found:

upper receiver: Type 3 park finish, on the right side says: Made
in (really shallow marking)
Argentina 14XX

One the left side says: IMP. BY
S.A.C.
LATTA.

Lower receiver: black coat finish, 02425

Charging handle: fold down type, black coat finish, 9602302 F 59

Bolt: blue or black coat finish ( can't really tell without taking out): UE 4 13977

So...............after some web research, it appears to be one of those SAC "original sin" FAL that were illegally put together in the early 90's, using two imported half rifle (couldn't get the import permit to import the whole rifle so they imported the half guns as parts?). The AWB is over anyway, so the worst case is adding the $150 US parts to meet 922r, or is that still not OK? since this is one of those Original Sin rifle........or should I walk away to avoid any future trouble?

anyway, are these rifles any good? (accuracy, quality etc). I know it should be better than the CAI assembled one I saw in the same shop, at least this one's safty doesn't go all the way down pass fire position(the CAI swings all the way down!)

[RoosterTac]

As long as yu add the US parts yu should be good to go. The fact that the selector lever on the Century rifle went to the full-auto position is fine, there's nothing wrong with that as there are other parts that are needed for the rifle to function as a F/A.

My only word of advice is that you should check the headspace on the rifle before firing it. I do this on all my rifles whether new or used, but I emphasize it more so with this rifle as the inch cut bolt carrier would not be original to this rifle and therefore the headspace may be off.

[cjgemm]

RoosterTac,

Do you have another Source for DCI receivers besides FAC?

[guncats]

Thanks Rooster :D
did you mean the inch kit guns are more prone to head space problem?
or is that only because the SAC guns were imported as half rifles so the chances are the bolt carrier won't be the original one for that particular rifle so when SAC put in another bolt the head space can likely be off?

Were these SAC guns newly made for the US market in Argentina, before taken into halves for import? If so, who(which arsenal) could likely be the one that built them, using whose parts and receiver?

I test-drove a DSA stg-58 Fal at range today(off hand fired 10 rounds), really love it! getting a FAL is now high on my new year's to-do list. If the SAC are(were) quality factory guns, I don't mind adding another $220 US parts to it (that will shoot the final price over $800, after tax and such). Now if SAC's are originally already "kit guns" with uncertain quality, then I'd rather go for a DSA, for around 1k :rolleyes:

[RoosterTac]

Originally posted by cjgemm@Dec 18 2004, 03:01 PM
RoosterTac,

Do you have another Source for DCI receivers besides FAC?
FAC is the sole distributor of DCI receivers

[RoosterTac]

Originally posted by guncats@Dec 19 2004, 01:32 AM
Thanks Rooster :D
did you mean the inch kit guns are more prone to head space problem?
or is that only because the SAC guns were imported as half rifles so the chances are the bolt carrier won't be the original one for that particular rifle so when SAC put in another bolt the head space can likely be off?

Were these SAC guns newly made for the US market in Argentina, before taken into halves for import? If so, who(which arsenal) could likely be the one that built them, using whose parts and receiver?

I test-drove a DSA stg-58 Fal at range today(off hand fired 10 rounds), really love it! getting a FAL is now high on my new year's to-do list. If the SAC are(were) quality factory guns, I don't mind adding another $220 US parts to it (that will shoot the final price over $800, after tax and such). Now if SAC's are originally already "kit guns" with uncertain quality, then I'd rather go for a DSA, for around 1k :rolleyes:
The reason that I said to check the headspace is that the Argentine rifles are Metric pattern rifles and the bolt carrier is an Inch pattern. This means that the bolt carrier has been replaced since it came into the US.

As far as I know these rifles were not made for the US market, they just happned to end up here.

The rifles were produce by FM (Fabrica Militar)

[guncats]

so the SAC Argentin stuff was supposed to be a military gun?(before taken apart for import). What indicated the bolt carrier is an inch one, is it the serial # on the bolt?

sorry, lots of questions, I know, just want to learn as much about these FAL stuff as possiblem B)

Thanks

[RoosterTac]

Originally posted by guncats@Dec 19 2004, 07:06 PM
What indicated the bolt carrier is an inch one, is it the serial # on the bolt?

sorry, lots of questions, I know, just want to learn as much about these FAL stuff as possiblem B)

Thanks
Yes, the serial number indicated that the bolt was Inch Pattern. The UE means that is was made by Enfield.

No problem on the questions, I was the same way at one point. Hell I still ask plenty of questions.

BTW, the charging handle on that rifle is also an Inch pattern part.