Barrel Strut

[lonwlf]

Ok guys,

I can see by the posts that there is a great deal of interest in the barrel struts. What I am looking for is input as to the pricing of a strut package that would be clamps as well as the tube I am going to do a redesign to make it fit up with the gas block as well as add a third clamp. I would offer them in stainless and blued.


I am open to comments so please post away, but also be advised that a barrel shroud sells for $150 to $185. So this is not a $25 add on part.


:sniper: :o

[kkina]

I'm sorta looking into pricing too, lonwlf, I'm seriously thinking of selling struts too. I would have to outsource the parts as I don't have my own machine shop (lucky dog!). Being that other add-on devices can be as much as $300 (and apparently don't work as well), I'm thinking a cost of around $100 is quite fair, but of course it depends on the raw material costs. Anyone else with input?

[cabdmd]

I have a versapod adapter for the gas block on order and should be delivered this week. I have a stainless tube on order too. My plan is to have a friend who is a machinest make a clamp to fit the front end and maybe another clamp for the middle or gas block area the attach the tube from the versa pod stud. I'll have to post pictures andresults when finished.
All this started from kkina so he really gets the credit. It is nice to see how his idea becomes implemented from everyone.

[Taquito971]

I had mentioned interest previously but if the prices mentioned in the above posts are indicative of the pricing I won't be able to afford it. Good luck with your venture!

Brian

[kkina]

Originally posted by Taquito971@Aug 9 2004, 03:44 PM
I had mentioned interest previously but if the prices mentioned in the above posts are indicative of the pricing I won't be able to afford it. Good luck with your venture!

Brian
Would you consider purchasing one for around $50 then?

[steve4102]

Brian
Would you consider purchasing one for around $50 then?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]


I would, sounds like a hell of a deal to me.

[OD_dude]

The strut looks great! I like the clamps not over done, not too fancy for a mini. As for cost, want the honest answer?

kkina's original idea uses off the shelf items and works great. If you bought all these items, the clamps are around $16 and the tube can't be too much. So I'm guessing total cost is $40 -50 bucks. So I guess what you sell them for depends on what they cost you. The cheaper they cost you the better! I'm not suggesting you sell them for under $50 but that's what you have to compete with. Yours is cleaner looking, that maybe worth something to someone but not to another.

I guess what I'm trying to say is keep it fair but cut your costs so you can maximize your profit. If I had to buy one for ~$100 I don't think I would.

[Bam Bam]

So how much did these struts improve accuracy?

[Taquito971]

Originally posted by kkina+Aug 9 2004, 06:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (kkina @ Aug 9 2004, 06:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Taquito971@Aug 9 2004, 03:44 PM
I had mentioned interest previously but if the prices mentioned in the above posts are indicative of the pricing I won't be able to afford it.* Good luck with your venture!

Brian
Would you consider purchasing one for around $50 then? [/b][/quote]
Man, I had all kinds of trouble trying to respond last night.. Anyone else? Anyways, I would be much more interested in a Barrel Strut if it were priced in the $50 dollar range. It would still depend somewhat on my financial status at the time of sale but you could count me in for one.

Brian

[kravman4]

I'm with taquito - I wouldn't be able to afford a $150 barrel strut. IMHO, if you're going to spend $150+, why not just rebarrel?

If I recall, I remember seeing a Shilen mini 14 barrel somewhere...I think I saw it on a site linked from a post within the last day or two. Might be worth checking out. Oh, btw, I'm working on working on a barrel strut using two tacstar barrel clamps (bought two for $8 apiece off ebay), and an aluminum tube supplied by a local machine shop. I'll report the results when it's installed... :)

[kkina]

I'm all for keeping things as simple as possible, without sacrificing too much performance if possible. The basic geometry of the barrel strut is simple, therefore one might expect its manufacture to be minimal in terms of cost. I certainly hope this proves correct, and I would like to target the cost in the $50 range.

Realize that I am on version 2 of the strut, which means the tube is machined to precisely fit over the gas block. This improves both performance and aesthetics, but will add machining costs to the unit. Also, the pieces need to be coated (factory hot-bluing, black oxide, or something equally high-quality). And for some reason the clamps currently retailed are surprisingly expensive, but this may be more a factor of market economics. May need to manufacture those too. Anyway, I'll see what I can do!

I in fact have in mind a prototype for a version 3, but I'm not giving details yet. It should add only a little to the cost.

I do agree with Kravman, why spend several bills on things like full barrel sleeves; at some point it's more cost-effective to re-barrel. (The aim of a barrel strut is to give heavy barrel performance without the cost or weight). As far as those
Shilen barrels, from my research they do not enhance performance as much as one might think. Maybe a little better than a muzzle brake, but not quite a bull barrel. Not sure why that would be, it seems a good concept. But you're basically rebarrelling for rather modest performance gains.

As far as how much the barrel strut improves things, the results so far on my own mini are posted under my "rigidity strut" thread, but I have achieved sub-moa results using factory ammo on a rifle with all the other basic "kitchen table" mods (muzzle brake, bedded stock, trigger job, and a good scope). The device basically ameliorates the single most troublesome design flaw of the Mini, namely it's thin and whippy factory barrel. From what I've seen, those other mods will bring the rifle to around 1.5 MOA, give or take. Good handloading will bring you sub-MOA...or you can add a barrel strut.

Sorry for the long-winded answer. We'll see if $50 a unit will fly.

[KenV]

cough *stainless* cough

Why lie, I want my Mini to look more like an m14. And since it can help with accuracy, double-bonus ;)

I look forward to seeing where this goes. Thanks much to everyone working to bring this to fruition. Oh great, California has screwed me up so much I used "fruit" in a rifle post......

K

[kravman4]

Kkina, now you've got me on the edge of my seat... :o can't wait to see version 3.

And about those barrel clamps...I don't know why they're so expensive. They seem pretty simple to me. <_< Anyway...before I go, I'll give you guys a link to the ebay page where I bought my barrel clamps ($8 apiece). I think he has two more left.

Oh, and btw, don't blame me if they don't fit your rifle. I ordered mine a week ago, but haven't received them yet so I'm not sure how they fit. Good luck!

Here's the link:TacStar Barrel Clamps (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=73948&item=3688548689&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V)

(I'm in no way affiliated with this ebay seller) Do I have to say this every time? :unsure:

[OD_dude]

I checked out the link to ebay , the clamps are listed as fitting shotguns, I think they would be too big, Tac Star lists the clamps at this site:

http://www.lymanproducts.com/tacstar/index.htm

The one I bought was, part # 1081111 (UBM-1)

[kravman4]

Ah, I goofed. :( Those barrel clamps are too big for my mini. Guess I'll sell 'em back on ebay. If any of you guys and gals are interested in buying two TacStar Barrel clamps, PM me. You get first dibs.

[kkina]

Originally posted by KenV@Aug 10 2004, 09:38 PM
cough *stainless* cough

Why lie, I want my Mini to look more like an m14. And since it can help with accuracy, double-bonus ;)

I look forward to seeing where this goes. Thanks much to everyone working to bring this to fruition. Oh great, California has screwed me up so much I used "fruit" in a rifle post......

K
Oh yes, I am not forgetting you stainless owners. Hey, it's one less process step! Now that i think of it, I haven't seen stainless barrel clamps at any price. May need to manufacture those after all.

The nod to aesthetics is taken well also. I like the M14/M21 look too. I specifically designed it that way, and if some want to buy a strut just for that reason, what the hey? They'll just have to live with a better-shooting rifle.

[Bam Bam]

I have ss Mini and would just as soon have black or blue strut. I have black scope rail and muzzlebrake on it and like it that way.
Do one for Mini-30 maybe too?

[tinman]

Thats an awesome piece of work lonwlf. It is metal art at its best. It has an excellent fit and contours making it look like it was meant to be. At 150 bucks a pop your problably not making much hourly. A more than fair price for a unit custom built. In order to meet the 50 dollar price tag people are asking for they would have to be mass produced. Unless you have this kind of high dollar machinery or know the right people in the right places, you would have to front major money. Im not sure if the demand is high enough to make it worthwhile, or even if that price is achievable. But you already know this.

[lonwlf]

Ok I have read all the post and I will meet the $50.00 price and that will be for 3 clamps and the tube it will be made to fit the gas block for a cleaner look and it will extend all the way to just behind the front site. I will offer them in black or stainless steel.

As stated in the above post I do have the high dollar equipment needed to make this as this is what I do for a living. I am also willing to make any other goodies any of you might be interested in. I am making gun accessories a part of my regular product line.

check out my website www.dhprecision.com

:sniper: :blink:

[kravman4]

Nice goin' Lonwlf! :D I'll be your first customer!

Just one more question...you said 3 clamps, how does that work? Will the strut look like the one you've got on your rifle?

Let me know what kind of payment you accept (I prefer Paypal) and I'll place my order! :ar15:

[lonwlf]

Yes it will look like the one on my gun only it will go all the way back to engage with the gas block for a cleaner look and there will be a clamp on each end and one in the middle to make the barrel as stiff as possible and yes I will put the holes in it so it looks cool.

As far as payment goes I need to set up with paypal to see how to recieve payment.

[lonwlf]

One last detail I know the original concept came from someone else.

I have copyrighted my versions of the barrel strut © just to protect free enterprise

It will be sold as the DHP Mini 14 Barrel Strut ©

[tinman]

lonwlf,your awesome,you the man. Im your second customer,need one in black. How do you take payment? Anyway you want it, you got it. What about tax and shipping? Luv you website.

[steve4102]

Can I get one for the mini-30 in blued?

[aadje]

i am verry interested to do you sell it to me in the netherlands to

[Bam Bam]

Sounds like a plan so far.... Will you include one for the 30 as well?
Also, do you notice the strut drawing heat away from barrel like a heatsink? I suppose it does at least a little?

[lonwlf]

Yes I will make them for the mini 30 as well I do need the barrel diameter though.

And yes I would ship to the Netherlands I just need to see how much a finished one weighs and find out cost of shipping.

[GREYBEAR]

lonwlf, I've cut my barrel down to 16-1/2", will you have struts set up for shorter barrels? If so I'd like stainless.

:beer: :rapid:

[lonwlf]

I can make them whatever lenght you want I just need to know the distance between your gas block and your front site.

[kravman4]

Lonwlf, will the barrel strut work along with the Harris bipod adapter for the mini? I've never seen one mounted personally, but from what I can see in the photos, it looks like the adapter might extend over the gas block. Your thoughts on this?

[lonwlf]

I really don't know I would have to see one and get some measurements.

[kravman4]

Well, I was planning on adding a bipod to my mini anyway. If I get ahold of an adapter, I'll send you a pic and whatever measurements you need to figure out whether or not it will work with the 3-clamp barrel strut. If it doesn't, then I'll settle for your original design. BTW, after I go shootin with my buddies, I'll bet you're gonna have a few more orders placed! ;)

[Scout12]

I think I would be interested in on also. As for the Bi-pod problem I went and had a sling stud put into the stock like a normal rifel, then put the bi-pod in a normal position. I'm going to check out your web site right now. :sniper:

[Scout12]

Very cool site, I can see how your mini must be really tricked out. Lucky you. How would I go about ordering a strut from you? Let me know I think I am interested. :sniper:

[eldomatic]

Lonwlf, very elegant work, the clamps and the ventilated strut are nicely done!

Questions: Is the strut hollow or solid? Is there hole in the end of the strut? Are the vent holes drilled all the way through? I can't tell from the photo.

Any new photos would be greatly appreciated.

I'd definitely like to purchase a blued or black oxide unit for an uncut Mini 14.

[aadje]

plaese let me now when yo are going to sell the struth
and if you can make a paypal account for payment
i have a black standart mini

[mini14jac]

The clamps are really cool.
I'd be interested in a blue strut, no holes drilled, and two clamps.
If the price is in the $30-50 range, I think you'd sell a ton.

You could sell carbon steel, with no holes drilled, and let the owners do the blueing and drilling. That should be a really low cost option.

You could also offer stainless, and pre-blued.
Lots of options. :D

[Taquito971]

Originally posted by eldomatic@Aug 15 2004, 06:33 PM
Questions: Is the strut hollow or solid? Is there hole in the end of the strut? Are the vent holes drilled all the way through? I can't tell from the photo.
Lonwlf, correct me if I'm wrong but the strut is not hollow, their are no holes at the end of the strut, and yes, the holes are drilled all the way through. Although, due to the fact that this is a custom piece made for your gun he could probably make any modifications you desired at a nominal cost.

Brian

[Ram_Rod]

I never saw a response to the question about why you are thinking of going with three clamps instead of two like in your example picture. I'm sure three might be stiffer but if two works well, could three mess up the harmonics of the while thing? Have you tried it with three?


Also, two looks good. Would three look too massive?

Ram_Rod
:usa:

[Bam Bam]

The Mini-30 barrel measures 15.7 mm at gasblock, at the front sight it measures 15.8 mm.
Pronto produciones por favor! We need struts, we need them now! :eek: :sniper:
If you can produce these struts, it will be great help to folks trying to accurize their Mini's without breaking the bank. The heatsink aspect would be nice too.

[lonwlf]

Keep the faith boys I am waiting for the material to arrive. I also did some testing on the third clamp and it makes no difference at all so I won't be adding the 3rd. one. It shouldn't be too long to fab them, I will keep everyone posted.

[kravman4]

Originally posted by Bam Bam@Aug 16 2004, 09:47 PM
Pronto produciones por favor! We need struts, we need them now! :eek: :sniper:

Lol, gettin' a little edgy are we? :lol: Actually, I can't wait to order mine either. I know it's been said a dozen times, but that is an awfully nice barrel strut Lonwlf.

BTW, how much do you plan on charging for a muzzle brake? Can you make a Glock style brake (diagonal ports) with an integral m14 style sight? Also, will the stainless brake's finish match the ss rifle? (i.e. kind of a brushed, dull finish) TIA

[kravman4]

Ok, new idea here. Lonwlf, let me know if something like this would be practical or not.

I'd like to have a muzzle brake with an integral m14 style sight for my mini. Would it work to build a muzzle brake that had two "wings" that came up to protect the sight? I don't know if I made myself clear (understandable) or not, but let me know if something like this sounds do-able. TIA

BTW - I sent you a pm a few weeks ago.

[mini14jac]

kravman4, you can buy the front sight/muzzle brake you describe for $40-60.
Try Cabella's, Sportsman's Guide, or some of the places on the Links page.

[kravman4]

Yah, I've seen those...Problem is I can't have a flash hider. There aren't many muzzle brakes that include a m14 style front sight. (other than the John Masen CA legal brake, which I think is too long 4.5") There are a couple benefits of having the protecting "wings" be part of the muzzle brake. I wouldn't have to mess around with putting on a new front sight (i.e. getting it on straight), and I'm already zeroed with the factory sights, so there would probably be little sight adjustment I'd have to make.

Thanks for the info! :cool: :ar15:

[hylander]

Any Update ?

[kravman4]

Heard Lonwlf had 'em on the press a couple of weeks ago. Haven't heard anything since then :( .

[cma g21]

lonwlf,
Count on one more order (blued/black).

[Otony2]

I will take one. For some reason I think the 2 clamp version will be my preference, but will wait to see a 3 clamp.

[bulletnose]

:usa: If your plan comes together, I too would would be interested;
stainless/synthetic 196-series mini-14 ranch! :) :usa:

[mini14jac]

I don't think there's any point adding "Me too" posts.
lonwlf hasn't posted here in over a month.
It must not have been profitable at $50 each.

[special poop]

I'm going to the Del Mar gun show this weekend - how much you guys want to bet I see one there?

[kravman4]

Lonwlf's been on vacation guys. He e-mailed me last week and told me he is finishing plating the struts. I'll bet he makes them available in the next two weeks.

[aadje]

i hope we hear from him soon

[Bam Bam]

I'm in for one when they become available. :cool: :confused: :eek: :rapid:

[BlenderWizard]

Still planning on making them for the Mini-30?

[BlenderWizard]

I think I'd rather have a hollow tube than the piece of stock with all the holes in it.

[Zophiel]

I'm definitly in for one, blued, no holes milled. Maybe you could add a clamp/mount for a light to fit along the barrel, kinda beside/in-between the two seperate ''barrels''. I'll find out the diameter of the specific light i intend to use.

P.S. ever think about adding actual "heat sink" material for added cooling. like on a car amp.

:trooper: just wanted to use that smilie

[BlenderWizard]

Nah, I'm holding out for kkina's design. We saw his first, and i like the way his looks better, anyway.

[Bigfoot]

Aluminum for weight reduction?

[tinman]

Emailed lonwolf a couple weeks ago, said his wouldnt be ready till middle or late November as he has some contractural agreements to live up to.

[kd7fko]

I think I have to have one of those as well.....Whats the turn around time on an order.

[BlenderWizard]

Get one from Kkina, his look better, and it was originally his idea, anyway.

[kkina]

Thank you, Blender! The struts should be available on my website after the first of the new year.

[sharnhorst]

All have to agree blender, Kkina's idea , you should buy for him its only right.

[kd7fko]

I cant wait till the first of the year.... I need it now.....!!!!! Anyway I can persuade you to make just one more???

[kkina]

Would love to, but if i made one for you, I'd have to make another, then another...well, you know how it goes. Actually the reason is I still have one more prototype to test before deciding on the final configuration. I want to make sure I put out the very best product i can.

[kd7fko]

Sounds like a good reason.... It is nice to hear that you dont just turn out the first piece of crap but you truly are a craftsman of fine work....

[burgie]

I like the way you think kkina, we will wait for the first of the year, its getting cold out at the range anyway........ :usa:

[Goeth27]

barrel shrouds arn't no 150 dollars, they are cheap.. even on cabelas here (http://cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jhtml?id=0012777221554a&navAction=push&navCount=2&indexId=cat20803&podId=0012777&catalogCode=XE&parentId=cat20803&parentType=index&rid=&cmCat=MainCatcat20712&hasJS=true)

[BlenderWizard]

Originally posted by Goeth27@Nov 1 2004, 08:06 PM
barrel shrouds arn't no 150 dollars, they are cheap.. even on cabelas here (http://cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jhtml?id=0012777221554a&navAction=push&navCount=2&indexId=cat20803&podId=0012777&catalogCode=XE&parentId=cat20803&parentType=index&rid=&cmCat=MainCatcat20712&hasJS=true)
ok

[hylander]

Barrel Shrouds ?
Did we miss something here :huh:

[BlenderWizard]

Originally posted by Goeth27@Nov 1 2004, 08:06 PM
barrel shrouds arn't no 150 dollars, they are cheap.. even on cabelas here (http://cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jhtml?id=0012777221554a&navAction=push&navCount=2&indexId=cat20803&podId=0012777&catalogCode=XE&parentId=cat20803&parentType=index&rid=&cmCat=MainCatcat20712&hasJS=true)
And fix your signature image; it doesn't work, and every time you post it's just a little red "x"

[YourLocalNerd]

My father in law has one of those barrel shrouds and to get it to stay in place you really have to sinch those set screws down. BUT sinching them down damages the barrel...I wouldnt suggest them personally.

[TwinRugers]

Originally posted by BlenderWizard@Oct 31 2004, 05:53 AM
Get one from Kkina, his look better, and it was originally his idea, anyway.
While I'll probably get one from Kkina, lets not all get in a ****ing match about whose strut is better.

I really like the one wulf is putting out. I think it's pretty cool looking.

Besides, it's a free country and I'm sure there will be enough demand for these things.... Needs to be marketed on RugerForum.com, AssaultWeb.com, TheHighRoad.org, Glocktalk.com

Any others?

[BlenderWizard]

Well, it's your money, but it seems as though drilling holes across the diameter, like Wulf has shown, would decrease the overall rigidity of the strut. It seems that if you want to reduce the weight, drill the center out for the duration of the length of the strut (THINK: bamboo) And, personally, I don't like holes all over the place to collect dirt and look ugly.

[kd7fko]

I think I will try to make a strut on my own.... I will try an aluminum tube that is the main shin of an artificial leg.... It is rated for high strength. I ordered this tacstar clamps that were suggested. My tube is 8 inches to start, is there a perect strut length that anyone knows of... the OD is slightly larger than 3/4 of an inch.

[tinman]

The rods I used on my struts came off a rack at home depot. $3.50 for a 36 inch length. If you dont like holes, spend a few bucks, or just buy rings.

[YourLocalNerd]

Originally posted by tinman@Nov 5 2004, 06:13 PM
The rods I used on my struts came off a rack at home depot. $3.50 for a 36 inch length. If you dont like holes, spend a few bucks, or just buy rings.
I get the rods from home depot comment b/c I have seriously considered this myself but I dont get the or just by rings comment. Please elaborate?? thanks :)

---EDIT---

Me thinks I get it...nevermind...sorry for the stupid post <_<

[kd7fko]

Well I ordered some of the Tacstar flashlight rings off the net so I hope that they wil work.

[hylander]

The Tac Star flash light clamps are perfect.
That is what is on mine.