Body Armor Ban

[AR15_Fanatic]

All,

Sen. Diane Feinstein :angry: has created a piece of legislation which would ban the sale of body armor to civilians and restrict its sale to LE personnel ONLY. She's using the North Hollywood bank robbery as political leverage to get this passed and it's starting to gain support with republicans and moderates - McCain has givne his blessing to it as well. Better get out your pens and write your senator NOW before it is too late. This is a serious breach of your personal security!

[Kalifornia Citizen]

Sales of body armor have been illegal in the great state of KA for a number of years! The gun-banners pushed it through after the North Hollywood bank robbery attempt.

Of course, nobody bothered to notice that the NH robbers were were not wearing the high-tech lightweight body armor. They made their own out of steel plates sewn into clothing. There are 2 lessons here. 1. You can easily make your own body armor and 2. The lightweight high tech body armor is ineffective against rifle rounds. That leads us to a third lesson.

The gun-banners in KA are trying to make armor-piercing guns illegal. Because body-armor somehow meets the defintion of armor, if they are successful in redefining what armor-piercing means, they will automatically make hunting rifles illegal!

Those crafty gun-banners! Change the definition of one word, and look what happens! If you think I'm off-base, just look how they redefined "ASSault weapons" and count how many semi-auto sporting firearms they banned with that simple redefinition!

KC

[AR15_Fanatic]

Of course, nobody bothered to notice that the NH robbers were were not wearing the high-tech lightweight body armor. They made their own out of steel plates sewn into clothing. There are 2 lessons here. 1. You can easily make your own body armor and 2. The lightweight high tech body armor is ineffective against rifle rounds.

I was not aware of this, but you bring up some good points! I always thought the NH scumbags used store-bought Class II or IIIA body armor for their acts. And all body armor really is is layers of Kevlar or Spectra carbon fiber - all commercially available - encased in a cordura or nylon vest with Velcro closures. Anyone with a sewing machine and some free time could manufacture this. And 1/2" steel plate is ever cheaper, although heavier. The only things you could not manufacture in your backyard are the Class IV plates. Those require extensive facilities and capital to make.

I do know that Feinstein and Teddy Kennedy have succeeded in passing a bill that bans the sale of body armor to felons and give surplus USGI armor over to LE depts around the nation. I guess that's all good - but does this mean now we'll be required to have background checks like NICS to buy Kevlar or other body armor types. Big Brother is indeed watching!

The gun-banners in KA are trying to make armor-piercing guns illegal. Because body-armor somehow meets the defintion of armor, if they are successful in redefining what armor-piercing means, they will automatically make hunting rifles illegal!

Well, kinda. True, rifles will go through soft body armor, so in that sense, they are armor piercing. I always thought that armor piercing was for steel or tungsten cored bullets. Yesterday I was at a gunshow and a vendor had .50 bmg rounds of pure tungsten - with points as sharp as a hypodermic syringe, too! I though that the AWB banned the sale of AP ammo, but was corrected on this opinion by an FFL dealer there. I guess just some states outlaw it.

KC - when you guys out there in Kali gonna give Feinstein the boot and vote her out of office?

Mark my words - in 20 years your gov't will probably attempt to take your slingshot!

[BULLZI]

So does the term body armor include those bullet resistant briefcases? I heard a few years back parents in high crime areas were supplying their kids with these as an added measure of safety. It would be a shame if this added saftey and piece of mind could no longer be used. What happened to the lefts "If it saves only one" mind set.

[quadfan]

A freind set up a couple tables at the local gunshow this weekend and I sent some stuff with him,including a level lla bullet proof vest I have. He said it was on the table only a few minutes when a sherif deputy came over and informed him it was illegal to display at the gunshow!!?? Never heard that one before! :o :o :o

[AR15_Fanatic]

Wow,

I just bought some body armor from a company vendor at a gun show. I haven't read about any laws on the books in my state against selling that stuff at gunshow, save only that it is illegal to sell a felon body armor.

A final warning about body armor and the law that was given to me by the manufacturer: Penalty enhancements exist for the commission of crimes while wearing body armor. If that same crime while wearing body armor caused the death of another, whether intentional murder or not, it is a capital offense according to the United States Code. You could very well face execution by the federal gov't for its commission.

[Kalifornia Citizen]

Anwar Sadat, Egyptian President, died while wearing body armor.

From the news stories I read, he was hit with over 60 rounds to the torso of Uzi machine gun fire. That's 9mm high-power rounds.

What killed him? Was it the 2 rounds that actually penetrated his "armor" or was it the shock from so many damn rounds whacking him on body armor?

He's dead, and his body armor did not stop it.

Lightweight body armor is only for one-sies and two-sies of handgun power. It was not designed for rifle rounds.

So when you hear of a gun-ban on armor-piercing guns, it's a ban against hunting rifles.

KC

[Cheetah]

I guess I'm misinformed all around, I thought body armor was already illegal to civilians.. I dunno if you guys have heard of Brigade Quartermaster, but they sell body armor and it's only for sale to military, police, security, and network news personell...Do you need class 3 to buy it or what? I've been wanting to buy a vest for several years now "just in case" but thought they were illegal. Kind of strange since you can purchase Kevlar helmets legally from just about anywhere.

[Duce]

Originally posted by Cheetah@May 23 2004, 04:52 PM
I guess I'm misinformed all around, I thought body armor was already illegal to civilians.. I dunno if you guys have heard of Brigade Quartermaster, but they sell body armor and it's only for sale to military, police, security, and network news personell...Do you need class 3 to buy it or what? I've been wanting to buy a vest for several years now "just in case" but thought they were illegal. Kind of strange since you can purchase Kevlar helmets legally from just about anywhere.
It depends on the state you live in bro.
In most states its legal to sell and wear as long as your not committing a crime while wearing it.



http://blackarmor.com/Vest_Index.htm
Last i checked these guys still sold them to the public. They also do ammord cars. They are very pricey. You can also find vest on Ebay.

[Cheetah]

Thanks Duce, I'll definately put some money into at least one vest. Brigade Quartermaster probably doesn't sell to the public just to eliminate the troubles of receiving orders from states that aren't legal. Could be their manufacturer as well not wanting to sell to the public..Thanks for the link!

[AR15_Fanatic]

Actually there is a new flexible body armor on the market that can stop rifle rounds. It don't know who manufactureres the stuff, but it's called Dragon Scales Body armor. It consists of a number of small hard armor plates sewn together to forms a sheet of "scales", like a fish.

[Cheetah]

"Moves when you Move"

Developments in body armor over the last thirty years are numerous, but very few actually have revolutionized the industry. The last two major developments were the introduction of Kevlar and Spectra products which significantly lowered weights compared to ballistic nylon. Now, Pinnacle Armor presents a revolutionary technology called DRAGON SKIN®, the first practical, FLEXIBLE BODY ARMOR that defeats rifle rounds. Now you can wear armor that flexes and molds to the contours of your body and allows for greater coverage than a rigid 10" x 12" plate which is the typical coverage offered in current technology.

Unmatched in its capabilities, the SOV flexible body armor system offers the following features in Level III body armor:
Ballistic Capability - The MIL-STD SOV-1000 and 2000 Level III flexible body armor systems will defeat the following rifle rounds that normally fall into the Level IV category, and all lesser threats.7.62 x 39 mm 125 GR, steel case mild steel core. - 2300 - 2700 fps.5.56 x 45 mm 65 GR, M855 (SS109 Green tip) - 3250 - 3900 fps.
Additionally, the SOV - D.O.D. 1000 & 2000 flexible Level III system exceeds the MIL-B 44053 fragmentation requirements around the high power rifle defeating areas.
Flexibility - The only Level III ballistic vests that are flexible enough to wrap around the whole torso area that "move when you move". No more restricted movements when rappelling, fast roping, diving, entry work, sky diving or other rigorous activities. These vests wear like level III-A soft body armor.Lightweight - The lightest overt tactical and only covert concealable vests offering this type of protection and coverage.Coverage Options - The only Level III ballistic vests that offer a minimum of 44% more coverage from our standard combined front and rear rifle protection than two standard 10" X 12" tactical plates. Full torso wrap coverage is available.Nominal thickness - The thinnest ballistic vests in both the SOV-1000 and 2000 configurations. The SOV-1000 is from .656" to .718" in total nominal thickness. The SOV-2000 is from .796" to .858" in total nominal thickness.Diving Capable - The only Level III ballistic vests that are offered in a positive, negative or neutrally buoyant configuration. Two waterproofing configurations are utilized: an extremely durable and highly wear resistant sealing for the overt tactical vest, and a lighter durable, wear resistant sealing for the covert concealed vest.
The SOV-1000 Level III, with large standard tactical front and back panel configuration weighs between 17 - 18.5 lbs. in a large, depending on the level of coverage needed. The SOV-1000 is manufactured with a titanium composite and is approximately 1/4 pound heavier than the SOV-2000 in a standard panel configuration.

The SOV-2000 Level III, with large standard tactical front and back panel configuration weighs between 16.8 - 17.3 lbs. depending on the level of coverage needed. The SOV-2000 is manufactured with a ceramic composite and is approximately 1/4 pound lighter than the SOV-1000 in a standard panel configuration.

http://www.pinnaclearmor.com/assets/images/sov-1-front.jpg http://www.pinnaclearmor.com/assets/images/sov-1-back.jpg
LEFT: Standard SOV Tactical Front with implanted standard SOV ballistic rifle coverage. Vest shown with alice clip webbing configuration. RIGHT: Standard SOV Tactical Back with implanted standard SOV ballistic rifle coverage. Vest shown with alice clip webbing configuration.

For more info on this system: http://www.pinnaclearmor.com/new/sas.html

[Pig Pen]

There are only two reasons why anyone would want to ban body armor.

#1 Because they do not want you to have even the most minimal way to defend yourself.
#2 Because they might want to kill you someday, and would appreciate as few inconvienances as possible.

I'd like to know just how widespread ballistic vest use has been in violent crimes so far. I can't recall a single case off the top of my head, and I don't really see crack junkies wanting to use a $400 vest to knock off the local 7-11 or rob your grandma. Furthermore, criminals don't need to obtain their armor legally like the rest of us. Just wait until China gets into the vest export business. :rolleyes:

Is a guy with a gun and a vest any more dangerous to our Kalifornian(or similar state) citizens? Hell no. Not unless those vests are also pepper spray proof as well. (Is pepper spray next on the KA/NY/DC ban list? :lol: ) Ironically, a citizen in a vest is safer from a guy with a gun though. Novel concept.
Shouldn't the cops all be armed with that magic "LE ONLY" "cop killer" "bulletproof vest penatrating" ammo? What do they have to fear from a guy in a flimsy piece of kevlar?
If I'm understanding this right, we can't own AP and "cop killer" handgun bullets becasue they can shoot through vests, and we can't own vests because "cop killer" handgun bullets can't shoot through them?..... I'm generalizing here, but I think that about sums it up in a nutshell.

There are so many holes in the reasoning behing this ban crap that it makes me sick to my stomach when I see all those suckers out there falling for it. There was a story about a 12 year old girl organizing a local "Million Mom March" rally on the News here recently. I kid you not when I tell you I got an instant gag reflex when I saw it.

[AR15_Fanatic]

"Moves when you Move"

Developments in body armor over the last thirty years are numerous, but very few actually have revolutionized the industry. The last two major developments were the introduction of Kevlar and Spectra products which significantly lowered weights compared to ballistic nylon. Now, Pinnacle Armor presents a revolutionary technology called DRAGON SKIN®, the first practical, FLEXIBLE BODY ARMOR that defeats rifle rounds. Now you can wear armor that flexes and molds to the contours of your body and allows for greater coverage than a rigid 10" x 12" plate which is the typical coverage offered in current technology.

Unmatched in its capabilities, the SOV flexible body armor system offers the following features in Level III body armor:

Ballistic Capability - The MIL-STD SOV-1000 and 2000 Level III flexible body armor systems will defeat the following rifle rounds that normally fall into the Level IV category, and all lesser threats.7.62 x 39 mm 125 GR, steel case mild steel core. - 2300 - 2700 fps.
5.56 x 45 mm 65 GR, M855 (SS109 Green tip) - 3250 - 3900 fps.

Additionally, the SOV - D.O.D. 1000 & 2000 flexible Level III system exceeds the MIL-B 44053 fragmentation requirements around the high power rifle defeating areas.

Flexibility - The only Level III ballistic vests that are flexible enough to wrap around the whole torso area that "move when you move". No more restricted movements when rappelling, fast roping, diving, entry work, sky diving or other rigorous activities. These vests wear like level III-A soft body armor.
Lightweight - The lightest overt tactical and only covert concealable vests offering this type of protection and coverage.
Coverage Options - The only Level III ballistic vests that offer a minimum of 44% more coverage from our standard combined front and rear rifle protection than two standard 10" X 12" tactical plates. Full torso wrap coverage is available.
Nominal thickness - The thinnest ballistic vests in both the SOV-1000 and 2000 configurations. The SOV-1000 is from .656" to .718" in total nominal thickness. The SOV-2000 is from .796" to .858" in total nominal thickness.
Diving Capable - The only Level III ballistic vests that are offered in a positive, negative or neutrally buoyant configuration. Two waterproofing configurations are utilized: an extremely durable and highly wear resistant sealing for the overt tactical vest, and a lighter durable, wear resistant sealing for the covert concealed vest.

The SOV-1000 Level III, with large standard tactical front and back panel configuration weighs between 17 - 18.5 lbs. in a large, depending on the level of coverage needed. The SOV-1000 is manufactured with a titanium composite and is approximately 1/4 pound heavier than the SOV-2000 in a standard panel configuration.

The SOV-2000 Level III, with large standard tactical front and back panel configuration weighs between 16.8 - 17.3 lbs. depending on the level of coverage needed. The SOV-2000 is manufactured with a ceramic composite and is approximately 1/4 pound lighter than the SOV-1000 in a standard panel configuration.


LEFT: Standard SOV Tactical Front with implanted standard SOV ballistic rifle coverage. Vest shown with alice clip webbing configuration. RIGHT: Standard SOV Tactical Back with implanted standard SOV ballistic rifle coverage. Vest shown with alice clip webbing configuration.

For more info on this system: http://www.pinnaclearmor.com/new/sas.html


Yeah, that's the stuff! Thanx!



There are only two reasons why anyone would want to ban body armor.

#1 Because they do not want you to have even the most minimal way to defend yourself.
#2 Because they might want to kill you someday, and would appreciate as few inconvienances as possible.


You forgot reason #3: Because you want to place your odds of surviving a gunfight as much in your favor as you possibly can. It's the same reason that body armor is issued to military and LE units. So why not you?

[AFreeMan]

The antis have been very clever with their deliberate effort to confuse "assault rifle" (a lightweight rifle for military use) with the legal definition of assault, as in "assault & battery", etc.

And they want to confuse the military's definition of "armor piercing" (the ability to penetrate 1/8" steel plate at X meters, that is, a "steel pot" helmet) with LEO soft "body armor", and penetration of soft body armor, etc.

You must always point out that these are not the same.

[AR15_Fanatic]

The antis have been very clever with their deliberate effort to confuse "assault rifle" (a lightweight rifle for military use) with the legal definition of assault, as in "assault & battery", etc.

And they want to confuse the military's definition of "armor piercing" (the ability to penetrate 1/8" steel plate at X meters, that is, a "steel pot" helmet) with LEO soft "body armor", and penetration of soft body armor, etc.

You must always point out that these are not the same.

Well the gun grabber's definition of an assault weapon tends to be that it's a cheaply produced military clone* that has no other purpose but to be purchased by criminals to mow down large numbers of unarmed, innocent people at short range very quickly. They can hold large amounts on ammunition in detachable magazines (none of this is necessary for hunting) and can fire as fast as you can pull the trigger. And since this is true, so these peabrains claim, they have no useful puropse in society or being owned by civilians and should be banned from sale by the government, thus ensuring that only outlaw elements of society own them and can use them to terrorize others, who are now outgunned by the crooks, as is happening in Kalifornia.


*Well either military clones or any other weapon with synthetic furniture and looks "scary".