.45 ACP vs .40 S&W

[AR15_Fanatic]

Got a local gun show coming up and I want to sell my old Glock 21 .45 ACP and purchase Para-Ordanance full size 1911. The problem is that I can't decide between a Para chambered for the .45 ACP round and one chambered for the .40 S&W.

The .45 ACP is notorious as a man stopper - the standard 230 grain FMJ will stop a man dead in his tracks with one shot and even better with the hollow point and Hydra-Shok ammunition. But I also understand that the .45 ACP starts to become inaccurate at ranges past about 25 meters. It also has a pretty crisp kick to it and can cut down on shots in rapid fire. And at only about 370 ft-lbf of muzzle energy, it is a little underpowered.

The .40 S&W is a hothead of a cartridge, packs a lot of muzzle energy, has a recoil comparable to a 9mm, and allows the carriage of a few extra rounds of ammo in hi-cap pistols. It is also very LOUD and I'm surprised that police officers who have used them in the line of duty have not gone deaf from them. It also has a little less stopping power on human targets than the .45 ACP does.

Still can't decide.....got any thoughts on this?

[gossman]

First question that needs to be asked is "are you going to concealed carry this pistol?" because these are large framed guns that can weigh a person down. I carry a .45 in a PT145 Taurus and it is heavy and only for winter time. Summer consists of either a Makarov or an S&W Airlight. Both are easy to hid in the hot times. A gun does no one any good when it's left at home or in the car. The second question if it is a self defense gun is how far away are you planning on shooting someone? Most self defense shootings average in the 19-21 feet. Any farther and you will have to explain to a jury why you couldn't get away. So the .45 acp is fine for the distances it was designed for. If you are planning on target shooting, get the .40. Both are fine but I still lean towards the .45, especially when I am wearing it in the winter Ha Ha Ha :lol: Just a little joke. <_<

[Deputy Al]

I prefer the 45 ACP over the 40 S&W, but use both calibers at work. The two calibers appear to have about the same ability to stop aggressors decisively with good hits. We use W-W Ranger SXT ammo in both calibers.

The 45 ACP runs at much less pressure than the 40, and tends to be a LOT more accurate in tuned guns than the 40. Frankly, there hasn't been a lot of work done to make the 40 S&W a match-grade caliber, but its high pressure and fast rate of twist in most pistol barrels combine to make it less than a tackdriver. The same can be said of the 9mm, but I've seen a couple REALLY accurate 9's set up with good barrels and slower twists. Maybe the 40 would benefit from similar treatment. That said--any good service 40 or 45 will provide adequate accuracy for armed engagements.

I agree that the 45 ACP is a LOT more pleasant to shoot than the 40. The 45's cycle seems slower and more deliberate, while the 40's seems to be sharper and faster. Pretty subjective stuff, I know. Both calibers can be adapted to by new shooters pretty readily. I don't think there's a lot to choose from performance-wise, but the 40 is offered in smaller/more concealable platforms than the 45 is available in.

[AR15_Fanatic]

Just curious Deputy Al,

How accurate, in your opinion, is the .45 ACP at ranges past about 25 yds?

[Domino]

I would have to agree with pretty everything said here. I own a Springfield Mil-Spec 1911 and I've fired my friends Glock .40 many times and I have my own conclusions. You obviously already know a lot about both calibers and you just simply have to make a decision on what your preferences are. I personally prefer the .45 acp, it feels smoother and more controllable than the .40 Glock that my friend has (of course it is a Glock not a Para-Ordinance). As far as rapid fire goes I have no problem pumping 7 rounds in 3 seconds at 5 yards with about a 6-8 group with my 1911 (good enough for me for self-defense). I've had way more trouble with the Glock although it may be better suited for that purpose. As far as accuracy past 25 yards I would have to say that you could probably would do better with the .40 sw but at 20 yards with the the bench I can do OK i guess. I've gotten as tight as 2 1/2 inches with 230 grain fmj but I'm obviously not a very good pistol shot, I think if I really practice and got a match grade barrel I might get some good groups. To me, it sounds like you should consider the 10mm cartridge <_< , From what I've read it blows away .45 acp and has sick velocity and accuracy. Good Luck.
Domino

[xnavysubber]

I own both 45's and 40's and for the most part agree with all thats been said. Just a few thoughts though.Both are more than adaquate for self defense. One thing to be aware of some 1911's don't like hollow points. So this limits bullets in them to FMJ, which has a reputation for over penetration. So far I haven't heard of any 40's that will not feed a hollow point reliably. I would still do testing with any loads you are considering. I have to get 500 rounds without a hitch before I consider any gun for self-defense.

As far as recoil, some of the hotter self defense loads,Cor-Bon, for the 40 can have as much, if not more, recoil than a standard load 45. They can get a real sharp snap to them where the 45 just kinda rolls.

Accuracy wise my Kimber Eclipse 45 will beat the snot out of 4-5" rocks out to 50yds. with frightening ease. Of course so will my Baby Eagle in 40 so I personally feel there is little or no difference in accuracy out to practical semi-auto handgun range.

Just my .02 worth.

[SCCogswell]

Which do you shoot better? Which do you like to shoot better? Which can you get cheaper? Which can you get ammo/reload for cheaper?
Those are the real questions, because there ain't a cuppa warm spit's difference in "stopping power" (whatever THAT is) between the two. Both are more accurate than 99.99% of shooters, unless you're a damn good seriously competitive pistol shooter, and out to greater distances than you have any business shooting a pistol (except just for fun).
All that aside: "And John Moses Browning went up into the mountain, even unto the top of the mountain. And he received from the Lord the 1911, yea, and the design thereof, and rendered it into steel. And the Lord saw that the 1911 was good, and blessed it, and said "Let it be made in .45ACP, that you may smite thine enemies a mighty blow, for the .45ACP shall cleave unto the 1911 as man shall cleave unto his wife, and likewise the 1911 shall cleave also unto the .45ACP, for this union is a holy one, from which thou shalt not stray." So the 1911 in .45ACP came to pass, and it was good, and the righteous therefore smote the minions of evil, as the Lord had intended."
So why would you want one of those newfangled, eardrum-splitting, gun Ka-BOOMing, wrist snapping, neither fish nor fowl .40 calibers?

[adaman04]

I'd go with the .45. It's the baddest caliber around IMHO.

[AR15_Fanatic]

"And John Moses Browning went up into the mountain, even unto the top of the mountain. And he received from the Lord the 1911, yea, and the design thereof, and rendered it into steel. And the Lord saw that the 1911 was good, and blessed it, and said "Let it be made in .45ACP, that you may smite thine enemies a mighty blow, for the .45ACP shall cleave unto the 1911 as man shall cleave unto his wife, and likewise the 1911 shall cleave also unto the .45ACP, for this union is a holy one, from which thou shalt not stray." So the 1911 in .45ACP came to pass, and it was good, and the righteous therefore smote the minions of evil, as the Lord had intended."

Ha Ha! That's great Cogswell!

[SCCogswell]

Thanks! Sometimes the voices do that to me. Feel free to file the serial numbers off and use it as your own, if you wish.
SO... What'd you get???

[AR15_Fanatic]

Think I'm gonna go with the Para P14-45 Limited in stainless but really thinking about the LDA limited version as well (Those triggers are really nice!)

[Old Judge Creek]

For me, nothing will out perform the 45.

That said, I currently own 2 45 autos: the ParaOrdnance P14*45 LDA and a Kimber. Offhand at 10 yards, with either of them, I can empty a full magazine into one ragged hole that I can cover with a silver dollar.

1) The Kimber is thinner tha the Para and thus is easier to conceal.
2) The Kimber will use any 1911 magazines. I use McCormick 8 rounders.

3) The Para LDA trigger has to be felt to be truly appreciated - it's great!
4) The Para magazines are propietary and not as easy to come by.....

Ya pays yer money and takes yer choice.......... just make sure its a 45.

[benji]

well, then, why won't .45 ball reliably stop a chuck or a coon with a chest hit, hmm? I assure you that if you shoot a dozen such animals with .45 ball, you will be REAL unimpressed with it, and you will know that nearly all the stories you hear about it are pure bs. any decent hand with a good 1911 can stay on a man's 12x 24" torso with one, at 100 yds, from sitting braced, or rollover prone firing positions. A really good hand can reliably hit a 10" disk at 100 yds, from standing, unsupported, with a match 1911 .45.

With proper loads, an alloy compact version of the 1911 is great. It's the same size and wt as a Makarov, so why settler for having 1/3rd as much power as you can have, hmm?

[AR15_Fanatic]

well, then, why won't .45 ball reliably stop a chuck or a coon with a chest hit, hmm? I assure you that if you shoot a dozen such animals with .45 ball, you will be REAL unimpressed with it, and you will know that nearly all the stories you hear about it are pure bs. any decent hand with a good 1911 can stay on a man's 12x 24" torso with one, at 100 yds, from sitting braced, or rollover prone firing positions. A really good hand can reliably hit a 10" disk at 100 yds, from standing, unsupported, with a match 1911 .45.

Something tells me you've never seen the damage a .45ACP round will do. Secondly, the only kind of varmints that I'm worried about taking out with a 1911 walk on two legs and break into your house late at night. Third, you might get a hit @ 100 yds with a 1911 - if the guy stood still and LET you shoot him.

[one good cop]

personally I don't like the .45 I'm a fan of the .40 cal. ...the .40 will do everything a .45 will do (same energy in most cases)with a couple more rounds and just as accurate....I've out shot alot of tricked out .45's with my glock 35 and more rounds to boot .......just my .0002 cents

[Buster57]

I have a Glock 22 and a Glock 20 and 21. I would trade you my 40 cal for either the 45 or 10mm any day.
The 40 is pretty worthless as far as I am concerned.
If you have room to conceal it, go with the 10mm or 45 every time.
Give the 40 to your wife or son.

[Tankcommander]

My vote is for the 45, I sold a USP 40 to buy a Para 14-45 LDA, If you get the wide grips you get 45ACP and at least 10 rounds. So the 40 with 10 rounds has no
advantage to a 45 with 10 rounds. and high caps are available for the Para. I love the LDA trigger.

I cut my handgun teeth on my issue 1911 and it will always be my first choice for a handgun. I have not tried Hollow Points in my Para yet but most of the reveiws I have seen say that it eats them up.

My 105mms

TC :cannon:

[xnavysubber]

Buster,
So the 40 is worthless? Just do a search for one-shot stops and you will see that the 40 has a higher percentage than either the 45ACP or the 10MM! Actually it has one of the best ratios of all time, period. Now don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the 45ACP round but I sure do not feel underpowered when I strap on a 40 for self-defense.

And I took your advice, I gave a 40 to my wife. I sure wouldn't have done this if I fiqured she would be under-gunned! :2guns:

[Glocc]

A .40 cal worthless? That's funny. First of all the .45 is not all that more powerfull than the 40. The .45 may be a big bullet, but is moves slow. The .40 cal has the best of both worlds; it moves much, much faster than the .45 and is almost as big a slug. The .40 cal will hit the target harder and faster in my IMHO.

[Donny]

i would buy glock 357 sig + barrel for 40 s&W
i personally think that .357 sig is more superior than .45acp also you can put more rounds in magazine for .357 sig and i think that sig round is little cheaper.
if you do this you will have two nice calibers.
.45 acp is also good round i just prefer .357 sig

[Dorkface]

when it comes down to it and i need to defend myself in my home the first thing im going to grab, provided i have a few seconds is my 12ga. Next to a pack of dogs nothing scares the crap out someone more then the shucking of a shotgun. :eek: but incase i dont have those few seconds ive got my M1911 .45.

you can talk all day long about kenetic energy transferance in relation to speed but when the lead meets the meat i want to punch the largest hole and thusly wound cavity i can. sure you can hit someone with .22 cal slug at a few thousand fps but they have a chance. hit them with a .76 cal slug(12ga) and they are doomed. :cannon: but i could just be over simplfying. :D

and yes i also realize the size difference between them is only .05 inches :)

[hdrag3]

Ultimately, The argument between the calibers will continue for longer than we'll all be around. But the bottom line is -- whatever gun in whatever caliber the shooter feels most comfortable with is going to be the winner. I own several 45's 1911's, Sigs, Para's and happen to prefer the feel of those guns, especially the Sig P220 customized by TJ's Gunworks in Culver City Calfornia. It holds eight in the magazine, one in the pipe and is much slimmer overall than any of the 40 cals I own. While I love my P229 in 40 and .357 sig, The frame is much bulkier due to the double stacked magazine.

I suggest you test various weapons out at your local gunrange and go with your gut instinct as to which weapon feels and shoots best for you. I also advise bringing several variants of Golden Sabre or Hydrashok Ammo especially in +p+ format -- you'll see the different between those highpowered ammunitions and regualr ball ammo very quickly in both sound and kick. Enjoy!

[Dorkface]

yeah in the end it all boils down to weather or not you can hit what your aiming at. and beyond that it all becomes academic. :)

[Nighthawk]

According to a 10yr study conducted by the FBI they listed the top 10 one shot stop rates.The number one man stopper with a one hit shot to the torso is the .40S&W with a 155gr bullet 97%.I assume the .357sig with a 125 gr bullet,which is listed 8th 91%will surpass the .40 auto as time goes by and more and more agency's are adopting it.The .45acp comes in 3rd with a 230gr Hydra shock bullet at 96% stop rate,which is tied with the legendary .357 Mag Revolver with a 125 gr bullet.HTH




Best!! :usa:

[johnr]

Well what did you get?????? I would get the 45 it is not always the number of rounds you have it is where you can put the first one and how well it fits you I have a 45 and my brother has a 40 and I would not trade guns mine 1 for a train load of 40s if I had to shoot them first it does not fit my hand and if it was even in the same frame as my 45 I would take the 45 first the 40 just is not for me :usa: :beer: :2guns: :sniper: THE ONLY THING BETTER WAS MY M79 WITH 00 BUCK IN IT AND MY 45 ON MY HIP

[nagalfar]

The FBI website has some great info on studies they have done, a lot on the 40 and 10mm, plus other calibers as well.. everything from wound channels to crime break downs, rounds that will get though car doors, a lot of interesting stuff, but I remember reading on that site some place that the average gun fight has a average of 2.8 rounds being fired, I would think shot placement is for more important than what you are being shot with, I would go with the one you feel most comfortable with, there is no doubt, the 45 is a man stopper, but so is a 380 with a well placed shot.

:usa:

[bigrob89]

well i went and traded my .22 pistol and gave my dealer 34 bucks for a 45acp by high point. my friend who hunt and shoot compition with nothing but pistols thought i did good. i carry it when i go fishing. i live in upper mich. so your not to far from the woos and critters of all sort its a nice gun to have for protection. i will say this. i would not want to be on the recieving end of a 45acp. just my 2 cents :2guns:

[rocky40]

any large caliber will stop some one. Its shot placement. As for a Hi point. You get what ya pay for. If you get a chance check out Glocks, HKs, smiths ect. Look carefully at the workmanship/ fit and finish. I guess if its all i could afford a Hipoint is better than a stick but not much. ;)