View Full Version : Which one would you choose
Tony Mig
10-31-2003, 19:25
I hope to generate the funds within the next few months to buy a full size wheel gun. I preffer a .357 Mag due to the versatility of ammo, and I also reffer a full lug barrel.
Now I've always concidered the Colt Python to be the Holy grail of wheel guns, and would very much like to own one some day.....
The S&W 686 is also a very nice piece, and about half the price of a Python.....
It's a tough decission....what would you guys do......?
Carnifex
10-31-2003, 20:36
I have an S&W 686 .357 in a 4'' barrel. It is a wonderfull gun. I really enjoy it. Myn serves the roll of home defense, fun gun, and backup hunting weapon. No problems to report at all with about 500 rounds through it. Myn likes the cheap Federal JSP's alot. And well, lets just say its more accurate than I am at 25 yards. Happy shooting -Carnifex :2guns:
Tony Mig
11-02-2003, 19:34
I got to shoot the S&W 686 with a 6" barrel today, and I'm totally impressed. Dead on accuracy, easy trigger pull for a DA revolver....with the price of the S&W being close to half of the Colt....I might have to lean towards the S&W....
I'd like to get the oppertunity to shoot a Colt Python some day soon.
Tony Mig
11-05-2003, 08:23
Another wheel gun I should give serious consideration to is the Ruger Model GP-161.
They still come in a blue verssion...(unlike the S&W's)...and they cost even less.
I've owner 5 Ruger products in the past, and was very happy with 4 of those guns....(the Mini-14 I owned was dependable, but very inaccurate).
The Ruger single action revolvers I once owned were all very accurate, well make, dependable, and easy to fire.
Thier GP-161 is a medium frame like the Colt and S&W, and it has a full lug barrel, adjustable target sights, comes in a blued steel version, a better cylinder lockup system, and an outstanding reputation for accuracy, long service life...and most importantly, Ruger hasn't laid off half of thier work force, reduced the availible models offered in thier catalog, or signed any B.S. deals with the devil about how they build or market thier products......
Perhaps I should give the GP-161 more serious thought before I spend my money....
Just to throw another one in the mix for you. Have you ever tried one of the Dan Wesson 715 pistols? Its about L frame size, interchangeable bbl lengths and a very sweet trigger.
Tony Mig
11-05-2003, 15:41
I had a Dan Wesson many moons ago when they first came out, it was accurate as hell, and the trigger was sweet, but I wasn't thrilled with the cylinder latch, or the barrel shroud set up.....
Not in the poll but My uncle has a great 4" Colt Diamond back in .38 special that is a very sweet shooter. I think I'll be looking around for a used one.
Ram_Rod
Tony Mig
11-05-2003, 19:37
RamRod...look on Gunbroker.com, I've seen quite a few on sale there.
SaxonPig
11-07-2003, 15:04
Here is one of my Pythons:
http://www.fototime.com/4819052E63B38E5/standard.jpg
Here is one of my 686s:
Wait, I don't have any of those. Answer your question? :)
Actually, there is nothing wrong with the 686, and I can't justify the expense of the Python, but after handling both you tell me which one you would rather have.
Tony Mig
11-08-2003, 05:00
Well, since I don't have the money as yet, I've got plenty of time to shop and compare.....
Yestarday I looked long and hard at a new S&W 686PP..(ported model)..and I was very impressed. The fit & finish was outstanding, and the trigger pull is half of what it is on my Beretta 96, good set of target sights, and it comes drilled & tapped to mount a scope base to it.
I've also looked at a couple of the Ruger GP-100 models, and they are also looking good.
My local gunsmith/FFL buddy here in town recently bought out an estate of it's gun & knife collection, and one of the pieces is an older model Python. When my friend gets back from his hunting trip to Maine, I'm going to check it out. I probably could give him a deposit, and make payments on it if I really want it, he's pretty cool about doing stuff like that. And since he had it listed at Gunbroker.com, and it didn't draw any bids, he just might be willing to work something out with me.....but that depends on the shape of this gun, and it's barrel length.
stevinator
11-12-2003, 19:39
Taurus makes heavy and light 357's some are 7 and 8 shot. Good quality for the money The gp100's are good too. :)
Tony Mig
11-13-2003, 04:55
The only thing the GP-100's have going against them is the "out of box" trigger pull. I've been scanning the Ruger forum, and every one there that has a GP has only one complaint, and that is the stiff trigger pull. They do however say that by dry firing them a lot, the pull does lighten up, and some even pull them apart and polish the trigger parts and/or replace the springs.
This is the same thing that I'm going through with my Beretta 96....... :rolleyes:
The used Python is looking doubtful at this time since I believe it has sold through Gunbroker.com...(the guy listing it for my buddy re-listed it with more pictures, and it started to draw bids the last I checked, and now it's not there)
If I can come up with the $575.00 for the S&W 686, I'll go for that, but if can only drum up $400.00, than the blued GP-161 may be the wheel gun I end up getting.
Keeping my daughter in fashionable clothes, and my son in hockey equipment is killing my gun budget........ :(
Tony Mig
11-13-2003, 15:37
:( It's gone :(
No Colt Python for Tony, it sold through Gunbroker.com...
Looks like it'll be either the S&W 686, or the Ruger GP-161...unless my gunsmith buddy happens to come up with something else of intrest.....
ralrein1
11-13-2003, 20:22
I have my eye on the new S&W Model 627. It's a .357 Magnum, 8 shot revolver with a 5 inch barrel. Satin finish stainless steel. From the S&W Performance Center. Retails for around $850.00- a bit pricey! That would be my vote,although it's not one of the choices listed above. Check it out and lemme know what you think. :D :usa:
Old Judge Creek
11-13-2003, 22:11
I'm betting you'll be cussin' that large diameter cylinder. It gets to be a bit of a pain when you have to wear it all day.
Tony Mig
11-14-2003, 12:09
I have my eye on the new S&W Model 627. It's a .357 Magnum, 8 shot revolver with a 5 inch barrel. Satin finish stainless steel. From the S&W Performance Center. Retails for around $850.00- a bit pricey! That would be my vote,although it's not one of the choices listed above. Check it out and lemme know what you think.
Those things just don't appear in area gun shops around here, they only get them on special order. Much like the two Limited Edition GP's Ruger has on thier website.
8 shot cylinder....do they carve those things out of 55 gallon drums....?
That's gotta wiegh a ton..... :o
I checked out two Ruger GP's this morning. Actually one was the GP-161, and the other a KGP-161, and I compared them to a S&W 686. The fit & finish on the S&W was flawless, and the trigger pull was smooth & easy, but the price was steep at $589.95...(and this was the 4" model, not the 6" I want)
The KGP-161 also has a beautiful fit & finish to it, it feels and looks like it's built a little more solid than the S&W, and it seems to fill my hand a little better too. After hearing so much about the Ruger's rough, stiff trigger pull, I was ready to really lay into it when I squeezed the trigger...now it's not as easy as the 686's, but it's no where near as bad as many make them out to be either. It was smooth with no creep, but it's a little longer, and in DA after you reach the point where the cylinder locks up, it does get a little more harder to pull than the 686, but it's not bad at all. I made several dry fires in both SA and DA, the S&W was better, but the GP still isn't bad.
Then I looked over the GP-161...(blued version)...this gun's trigger pull was identical to the KGP's, but the two things that I didn't like about it was the bluing just didn't look like they spent enough time on, and the cylinder felt just a little sloppy when you spun it. Beyond those two things, it seemed every bit as good as the more expensive KGP-161.
The GP-161 is going for $429.95, but they have a special offer for $10.00 more you get two boxes of ammo..(1 box of .38 Spl & 1 of .357 Mag)...one speedloader, a set of ear plugs, a cleaning kit, and a pack of NRA B-2 targets...total of $439.95
(I believe this gun has been in thier show case for quite some time, and that's why they are offering this special package deal)
The KGP-161 is $40.00 more...(or $50.00 depending how you look at it)... at $479.95 but that's just for the gun and nothing else. This gun is brand new as it wasn't there last week.
I listed a bunch of stuff on E-Bay yesturday morning, and so far only sold one $30.00 item with the "Buy-it-Now" feature. If everything sells for what I hope to get, I just might consider that KGP-161, even though I do like the S&W's trigger a little better, I just feel the Ruger is built a little better over all, and it's easier to justify the price of the Ruger at $100.00 less than a S&W...that's $100.00 I can put towards ammo or a nice leather holster...... ;)
I would take the L frame Smith, Pythons have always been way over-rated in my opinion.
Tony Mig
11-16-2003, 12:51
Wether I go for the Smith or the Ruger, one things for sure Geno, you're right about the Pythons...over rated and way over priced.
For that matter, I think S&W could stand to roll back thier prices a little too....that, or they just sell for more around here then else where.....
Tony Mig,the trigger on the rugers can be made much better with a Wilson combat spring kit,and a little careful work with a stone!! Little can be said against the python x-cept the$$ the smith is, well a smith,my next wheelgun will be a super red hawk .454. Hey now that I've looked, Ruger is on all my wheel guns!! ??
I just feel that the S&W is nicer.
Dont like Colt's cylinder locking mech :rolleyes:
Marcus
Tony Mig
11-22-2003, 19:25
pahaska, I've been back to the gun shop a couple of times since my last post on this thread, and I've given both of those GP's about as much looking over, and detailed inspection as I have ever given anything I've purchased. I really don't think the trigger pull is bad at all, it's just that you can feel the stages it goes through...(especially when it reaches cylinder lock-up)....and I have no problem holding a sight picture steady while going through a DA pull with either of these wheel guns....(and that's more than I can say about my Beretta 96F)
When it's all said and done, I really do preffer blued guns...(especially wheel guns)....and after looking this blued GP-161 over a couple more times, I really can't find a thing wrong with it. I still think the bluing is a little on the light side, but probably because I'm comparing Ruger's bluing to Colt's, and it's just not the same finish.
I think the best thing about the Ruger is the solid construction, these things are built like a tank, and there's nothing that appears delicate, or easy to break on these guns. The cylinder walls are thick, and it gives you the confidence to shoot hot loads all day without worrying about the gun coming apart in your face.
I've got the paper work for a handgun purchaser's permit in the works, and it should be done by next Friday, I've been able to move a few items on E-Bay, and I should start seeing the money orders coming in this week, so once the permit is in hand, I'll take it out to the gun shop and put some money down on it, and when the rest of my E-Bay cash comes through I'll have enough to bring it on home....
Wish me luck..... ;)
Tony Mig, you won't regret your decision on the Ruger. Hard to beat 'em and the$ you saved will buy Hogue combat grips,some ammo or other goodies!! I've always liked that feel when the cyl. locks up when firing D.A. Lets me re-align the the sights better for some reason.The wilson springs don't really get rid of that, they just lighten the pull a bit!! It seems to me they sell for under 10.00 from Brownells Good luck!!
Oldjad01
11-24-2003, 13:45
I have owned Colt,Ruger,DanWesson and S&W double action revolvers and preferred the S&W action over the Colt Python and Ruger. S&W's are easy to smooth and lighten and I liked the easy 'staging' of the trigger on double action. The Ruger was a custom by a good smith, the Colt was the pre Python model with the 'Python' action but no underlug, the Dan Wesson was a stock 357MaxMag,the other 15 revolvers were all S&W. Can't comment on the DanWesson as I never got around to shooting it, but I know they are tough. Rugers and Dan Wessons held up good with heavy use in sihlouette matches, Smiths didn't, but Smith has beefed up the line since then.
stevinator
12-28-2003, 21:50
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid95/pde8f5b4ac148acbe58e75a7c6b67f707/fa2c1339.jpg This deer didn't like the taurus tracker in 357 and 6'' ported barrel :D
Deputy Al
01-01-2004, 08:28
Between the 686 and the GP-100, I would go for the 686--and did. I still have a 4" "on paper" at work because it goes with me on most back-country excursions. The 357 Magnum is the single best general purpose handgun caliber in existence, IMHO.
I am positively enamored of the Colt V-spring revolvers, though. I own several, and will NOT part with them--period. Their only down-side is their rather antiquated mechanics and relatively soft metallurgy that require the Python to see the gunsmith about every 2000 rounds of full-house 357 Magnum ammo if double-action fired a lot. You won't notice it if you continue D/A firing, but slow single action cocking will often reveal a slight "out-of-time" condition in these fine pieces under these conditions.
This maintenence requirement was one of the death-knells of the Colt system for cop issue sidearms. The V-spring system requires the skills of a gunsmith familiar with the workings of these revolvers to keep them in tune, while an armorer or even a mildly skilled owner can detail-strip the S&W easily and replace or fit parts without a lot of fuss and bother. Colts are Swiss watches, Ferraris......S&W's are Ford F-250's. Rugers are Dodge Rams.
If you plan to shoot the revolver in D/A mode A LOT with full-house 357's, I would lean toward the S&W or Ruger. If you plan to mostly shoot 38 Specials, or mostly single action, or just reduce the loads a bit--say, 158 bullets at 1200 FPS--the Python will likely never need maintenence until your grandkids inherit it. If you know a good gunsmith that knows the Colt I-frame/V-spring well, just save your sheckels and get the Python.
My opinion--the Colt Python and New Service series revolvers are the finest revolvers ever made--period.
magnomark
01-18-2004, 12:26
:D Hey Dep't Al; I like the 357 also,bought a new tauras titanium tracker in 6"
last summer.Love the gun for the weight,but hate the stock grips!Real POS design
for me.I have'nt seen any aftermarket grips yet by packmeyer or whomever,and wondered if you or anyoneelse on the board has run into this problem.I may just carve my own-got a chunk of cured walnut laying in the garage. :sniper:
Deputy Al
01-19-2004, 15:17
Yeah, the N-frame S&W's and the stock "target" wood stocks DO NOT WORK for me. I get an abraded thumb courtesy of the cylinder latch with any cartridge that has moderate (or stronger) recoil. Pachmayr Grippers or Hogue neoprenes do the trick for me.
Dunno what's out there in the aftermarket for the Taurus--some of the market for revolver grips has receded over the years. I'd just E-mail some of the makers (Pachmayr, Hogue, Michaels of Oregon) and see what they say.
Sturmgewehr
02-19-2004, 23:01
Hi,
I am 18, so I do not own my revolver yet, but a long time ago, my dad got a deal when he bought 3 Ruger GP-100's in stainless w/4in. barrel, full shroud. He took one, gave the second to my brother when he turned 21, and will give me mine at that time, too. :D I have fired close to 1,000 rounds through a GP-100, if not more, and I really like the Ruger revolvers; First, I like the cylinder release a little better. Second, I like the triple mounted cylinder. Third, I find them very comfortable, and can shoot some pretty tight groups with them if I bench rest and take my time. I am not a vast pool of revolver knowledge, but I have fired Ruger small frames, mid frames, and large frame revolvers, and fell in love with them all. (My second gun will probably be a Super Redhawk .44 stainless :D ) Well, I just wanted to support the Ruger side of this, and give my 2 cents. Either way, good luck, and I am sure you will end up with the right revolver for you. :)
Sturm
Second Wind
02-24-2004, 18:08
Get the 686 or better yet get both :lol:
Sturmgewehr
02-25-2004, 21:10
Well, I priced out a Colt Python Elite in stainless w/ 6" barrel, and my heart definately sank when I saw that price, lol. People on www.guntrader.com are getting 1000 bucks, or close to it, for those things, lol. But I still want one... :D
I've had my eye's on getting a Ruger KGP-141 for a while now. At a local Ace Hardware they have one for $429.00 :eek: . A very clean price on a stainless .357 with adjustable sights. I would recommend anyone interested in buying a Ruger to go to an authorized Ruger dealer. Their prices will rule. As far as Colt Pythons and S&W 686's, they don't really shot any better than the Rugers and anyone who tells you otherwise is probably lying. I can't speak for anyone else but I see no need to keep S&W and Colt in business, their policies to consumers suck. The price of a Python has no justification, in my opinion, and the only reason to buy one is to just simply have the "best" and the most expensive. But the S&W's are very nice. They just don't SEEM as tough as a Ruger (Although they probably are) and they come with nicer options like 7 shot capacity and Houge grips. I've deeply considered one of those but I'll likely just stick with the Ruger.
Tony Mig
03-15-2004, 18:46
I haven't been back to this forum in a while, and I just wanted to let you guys know that I got the blued GP-100, 6"...(GP-161)....and I'm very pleased with my decission. I shot close to 1,000 rounds through it before installing a set of Wolf reduced power springs in it, and it's such a sweet shooter, more accurate than anything I've ever shot.
I've also taken up reloading, and have come up with a couple of .357 Magnum loads, and 4 different .38 Spl loads, all have performed well in this gun. One of the best things about the Ruger GP-100, is the fact that it's built so heavy, it's deffinitely a reloader's gun.
Now I want to get a 4" model....maybe a KGP-141.....
papajohn
03-28-2004, 16:10
If money is no object, get both, and shoot the Smith. Fondle the Python, then put it away. No really, the 686 is all you'll need, mine had over 40,000 STIFF loads thru it when I traded it away, and was still good for 1.5" groups with decent ammo. I loved the 4" as my carry gun, but a 6" is also a good shooter, if you don't mind the extra bulk and weight. The 686 was introduced as an alternative to the Python, just look at the underlugs from the front, you can see how S&W copied it almost exactly, except for the hand fitting.
As to the ports, my answer is an unequivocal NO! There are just too many downsides to justify them, from blast and flash to the danger of having to shoot close to your body/face, and risking personal injury. Stick with the stock barrel, it's probably a little cheaper, to boot.
As for the GP-100, they are good shooters, aside from the trigger, and it can be slicked up, but not like the Smith or Colt, IMHO. If you like hot loads, it would make a good choice. But be forewarned that Ruger barrels come pretty rough from the factory, and mine took several thousand jacketed rounds to smooth out. It didn't seem to affect the accuracy much, but it sure looked awful when it was new. Mine loved the heavier bullets, 158 and up, wouldn't shoot the light stuff worth a hoot, and I experimented with it for years.
You might also check the market for used guns, there are bargains to be found if you look hard enough. Most haven't been shot enough to hurt them, in fact, you're actually letting someone else break it in for you! ;)
PJ
I picked up my new 4" 686-p on saturday and shot it at the range sunday. I was originally thinking of getting a Ruger, but after shooting my buddies .357 ruger I was glad I went with the smith. I prefer the smith's trigger, weight, and feel over the ruger, but that's just my 2 cents. :lol: Shooting the smith single action was just frickin sweet!!!!!!!!! I found the hammer on the smith to be in the perfect position and I just had to push my thumb straight down to cock the hammer. For me, the ruger's hammer was a little too far foward, and I found myself really stretching my thumb to work it in single action, which made me move my wrist and periodically lose my sight picture. I'm 6'4" and about 195 lbs, so it's not like my hands were small for the frame of the pistol. Aside from any budget constraints, my advice is to look at as many different revolvers as you can before you are ready to buy and go with the one that feels the best in you hand, and that has the features YOU are looking for. :beer:
Tony Mig
03-31-2004, 19:36
As much as I like my GP-100 6", I'm giving serious thought to going with the S&W 686 for my 4" when I can finally afford to buy one.
I can test my loads in the Ruger first, and as long as there are no excess pressure problems, I can also shoot them in the S&W without fear of damage. Also if my state ever passes a "Shall Issue" law, or when I retire and move to a state that already has one, the S&W 4" will become my carry piece.
Move to Georgia, there are too may yuppy weenies around here and we need more people who believe in something other than having the biggest house and the biggest SUV.
Tony Mig
05-13-2004, 19:15
Domino...
Georgia would be one of my first choices, haven't spent much time there, but I've driven through it on my way to Florida and back, and I've got friends living in Loganville.
Well...I got my 4" 686, and I love it....my first S&W, and I couldn't be happier...
Well, I'd be happier if I also owned a 6" 617, and a 6" 629..... :D
M1Marksman
06-12-2004, 22:51
I just picked up a Ruger GP-100 & got a hella good deal. It was $250(used, police trade-in) but got it for $225. I also had a $50 gift card from Christmas, which helped. Its a 4" stainless, DAO w/bobbed hammer & fixed sights. After a minor problem, the manager threw in a box of Winchester JHP & a set of Hogue finger-groove grips "on the house". What a deal. Took it home, cleaned it up & installed the rubber grips. She's one sweet pistol.
I've shot the Python & several Smiths. I want one of each.
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