Saiga AK -vs- Mini 14

[scout]

:rolleyes: :2guns:

Can anyone tell me how the AK Saiga's compare to a Mini 14? Particular interest in accuracy, or lack of it!

Does anyone have any experience with the EAA Russian Saiga's offered by CDNN? I'm interested in the .223 variety as I have a mountain of .223 ammo.

Also, I have been told that it is legal to convert hi-cap ak mags to fit this gun? Is this possible? Is it legal? If so what does it entail?

God Bless America,

Scout :cannon:

[Flak 2]

I can't say on the Saigas accuracy. You can convert them to high capacity provided you use the proper number of U.S made parts.

[Messiah Jones]

You can legally install high cap mags quite easily on the 223 and 7.62X39 calibers. Check my other posts for more info.

The Saigas are of great quality both cosmetically and in function. They are, in my opinion, the best AK style rifle available and by far the least expensive. I have both the calibers I mentioned above and a Saiga 12ga and they all function flawlessly.

But be careful. There are legalities invloved in this conversion. I sell a Saiga Conversion CD shown in the "MISC For Sale" section of this forum. It details all the legal mumbo jumbo as well as much, much more.

I like the Saigas in any configuration.

[boogeyman]

I know my SAR1 is way way more consistant/accurate than my Mini. Saiga is a good gun and should be better than the Mini for groups.

[ppro]

I have owned 6 different mini 14's and mini30's total.......and I don't own nor will I again.

ALL the mini's I had would string a shot low on the target, next one alittle higher then move over and up to group........

I don't know if it is the gun settling in the stock and or plus the gas system fouling or just what....but I give up on them.

I love my Saiga rifles....7.62 x 39 and .308 GREAT rifles.

Wouldn't even remotely consider going back to Ruger.

Paul

[csapor]

Ruger mini vs. any other gun apparently is an ongoing battle which never ends. Theres always the typical "ruger mini vs. slingshot and D cell batteries",mini vs. slingshot wins hands down, etc....

Just use common sense- try to shoot them both and make the decision yourself. Its like Ford vs. Chevy, Republican vs. Democrat......
My mini 30 hits bowling pins at 100yds. all day long. My buddys Romak AK doesnt, but its a hoot to shoot.
All the import AK's ive seen look like theyve fallen down numerous flights of concrete stairs, but theyre not meant to be tack drivers.

Just try them out yourself :beer:

[DocWagon]

Be careful folks, he asked if he could modify the magazines, not the rifle.

I am not a lawyer, do not consider this legal advice.

It is my understanding that it is illegal to alter a magazine to create a "high capacity" magazine or to take an existing hi-cap and alter it in such a way that it will no longer work in the gun it was orginally intended for. In other words, you can rebuild a Glock hi-cap mag that was damaged, but couldn't modify to work in a different gun and no longer work in the Glock, nor could you take a 10 round mag and modify it to hold 15.

"Further, large capacity ammunition feeding devices manufactured or imported after September 13, 1994, shall be marked "RESTRICTED LAW ENFORCEMENT/GOVERNMENT USE ONLY" or, in the case of devices manufactured for export, effective July 5, 1995, "FOR EXPORT ONLY."

I do not think it is possible to alter AK-47 magazines to work in the Saiga rifles without altering the magazine so that it will still work in the AK-47, if it would be possible at all. What you CAN do is modify the RIFLE to accept the standard AK-47 mags as long as you use the correct number of made in the US parts.

No matter how many US parts you use to build a hi-cap mag, you are still committing a crime until the AWB sunsets.

[ppro]

Doc Wagon

Yes...YOU CAN modify the hi cap magazine to fit the Saiga and YES it will fit in both guns.........the AK and the Saiga.

And yes it is very simple to do and NO you don't have to modify the Saiga to accept a hi-cap magazine....just very slight mod to the magazine only.

Paul

[ppro]

Doc Wagon

I assume he is talking about all the surplus hi-cap mags around, not the post ban LEO marked hi cap mags, which he shouldn't have anyway if he is not LEO.

Your point is correct that the magazine must function in the original firearm it was designed for, (AK) ......if you do modify it for the Saiga, it must still work in both.
But that is easily done.

Paul

[ppro]

CSAPOR

No debate regarding the Ruger....it can be a very accurate firearm.....I developed loads that would shoot 1/2 inch......which would hit the top of your bowling pin.

What I was pointing out is that you will not get first shot and rarely the second shot into the fouled barrel group with the Ruger mini 14 or mini 30.

That is why I have abandoned them, not because of accuracy but because of first and second shot accuracy into the group.

Sorry.......it is not a Ford or Chevy issue at all.....far from it. Rather a matter of better first and second shot consistency with my AK based guns.

One other thing about the ruger that is not a issue with the AK...... The Ruger you have to break it out of the stock to clean it.........which means you unsettle the action by removing it......not the case with the AK. What all that means is that if you expect to get a shot to the guns (Ruger) targeted zero after you reassemble it.....it is not going to happen.....it has to resettle in the stock again.

All this means is that if you are going to hunt with the Ruger.....you better do so with a fouled bbl zero or cold bbl zero, and know where both are......and if you cleaned the gun and put it back in the stock......you better settle it again by shooting it, or it won't hit either zero..

Paul

[guncats]

Originally posted by ppro@Nov 7 2003, 08:30 PM
ALL the mini's I had would string a shot low on the target, next one alittle higher then move over and up to group........

I love my Saiga rifles....7.62 x 39 and .308 GREAT rifles.

Wouldn't even remotely consider going back to Ruger.

Paul
I recently bought my Mini-30 and that is my first auto in 7.62x39.

Yes the factory Mini-30 group does climb up after the first shot!! that is absolutly true, with all different kinds of ammo. I bought the gun used with a 3x9 scope already installed, tHe scope was sighted in for the first-shot. Apparently the previous owner gave up on this gun too. :(

After searching the web for a fix, I found this link:http://www.bajaarizona.org/mini14/mini14.htm , and followed the instruction to adjust the screw pressure on the gas block.

Now the 100yd 5-shot groups are cut down to less than 4", all ammo brand. The russian ammo group still climbs a little but 20-shot rapid fire (that is <3second/shot, without waiting for the barrel to cool down, so it gets really HOT! :ar15: ) is still within 6". :confused:

Now the really cool thing: the african Cheetah FMJ ammo doesn't climb any more after the gas block adjustment! it pretty much only spread holizontally, vertical spread is always less than 1". and the whole group size? alwas less than 2.5 moa 5-shot !! (most times 1.5-2") I must have done something right........ ;)
So Mini owners, don't give up!! there is hope! This little trick might make your mini shoot better too!

By the way, I have nothing against Saiga/ak/vepr, (actually I am thinking really hard about getting a 308 saiga, then install a Galil thumb hole stock and modify Galil 308 mag to feed it ( can be done, had been done before)). The reason I paid big bucks for a mini-30 was because the 1)upgradable barrel and 2)stock option, swap from hunting to combat style in 10 seconds 3)a solid scope mount system, and , most importantly, 4) the stainless steel construction. I bet you can't find a AK made of stainless steel...... :D
Have fun

[Messiah Jones]

Accuracy with my Saiga .223 is great.

I have some that I converted myself and not only is accuracy great but also reliability. It will eat any ammo ran through it and I am in some ways more in favor of the Saiga than my AR15.

Compared to the AR15 the Saiga is eaiser to clean, not picky on ammo, and never jams.

I have never owned a Mini, but I think the Saiga is the best low priced semi-auto .223 rifle available and for some reason is the cheapest too.

You can't go wrong with a Saiga. Any Saiga.

[guncats]

agree..... Saiga is a great gun as is, but not easily ungradable ( the only thing I can think of is the trigger job and stock beding, other than that there is almost nothing you can do to improve it). But for the price it is great,it even has a scope rail built-in :lol:

I wouldn't be surprised if some one tells me his mini-14 print 5" group. I personaly think mini-14 has too thin a barrel, while the Mini-30 is still ok, with a medium weight bbl (even though I hope it is a little thicker). And the saiga has a solid stock connection while the mini action is held down by only the trigger group! :angry:

Have anyone seen a 22" bbl saiga with the new flash-hider yet? how much more does it cost compare to standard 22" version?

picture below shows a 5 shot cheetah group I fired last saturday, the last shot ( the right most one) was kind of a flyer--the range officer yelled "seize fire" so I squeezed that one out in a hurry. over all 2.5" , with 4 normal shots within 1.5". Really impressive ammo, you guys ought to try it out.

Have fun.