Never reloaded before

[Carnifex]

Howdy guys. I love shootin but the price of ammo is starting to get to me. I'v been interested in reloading for a while but i really know nothing about it. I was wondering if you guys could just throw out some ideas for a good press and whatever else i need. Maybe you know of a package deal where u can get everything you need. Thanks guys, happy shooting and good hunting. -Carnifex

[dvdstdg]

I believe you will find that all of the major mfgs have beginner kits. I use an RCBS Jr. that I have had for almost 30 years and it does the job. If you are going to reload 100's of rounds at a time a progressive press is the way to go but you are talking bucks and complexity. IMHO, RCBS dies are the best bang for the money although you will hear from Lee, Hornady, and others users that I am full of it. You will need a good scale, powder measure, powder dribbler, dial caliper, case trimming setup, primer pocket reamer/cleaner, neck brush, lube pad, lube, deburring/champhering tool. Hand primer seating tool is a nice extra if you are going to reload much at all but not enough to justify a progressive. If you are reloading for the mini only don't worry about neck turning or run out gauge - be like putting lipstick on a pig.

[eldeguello]

Get an RCBS or Redding single-station press to begin with, and Lyman, RCBS, Forster, or Redding dies. They all work well, but today I prefer the Redding. Get a powder scale. I believe you should start by weighing all charges before you start to use a powder measure. Also you should get a case trimmer, a dial caliper for measuring case lengths/loaded cartridge lengths, and a case mouth chamfering tool. Also get a good notebook, and keep a record of EVERY round you reload: Date loaded, case make, case length, bullet make & weight, powder type, make & weight, primer make & type, case length, and overall loaded length, and number of rounds loaded for each different load. Also record and paste a label twith this same info on the box containing that load, so 20 years from now you'll still be able to I.D. the load! This is important! You will forget, otherwise.

[Carnifex]

Thanks for some of the info guys. I'm looking through my Natchez catalog and two things caught my eye. The first one is an RCBS Turret Delux reloading kit for $278. Also, a Lyman T-Mag II reloading kit for $243. Anybody use these kits or have any sugestions? I plan on reloading alot of .223 and .357 and possibly some 6mm PPC and .308. Thanks for the help guys. -Carnifex

[DocWagon]

Of course, some of it depends on how much $$$ you want to dump in at the start. I started with a Lee single stage anniversary kit. The anniversary kits have everything you need other than the dies. Well, and the consumables of: brass, powder, bullets, and primers, of course. You can also see my review of the 4-hole Lee turret on this page. Its quick to swap calibers, easy to use, but not nearly as fast as a progressive. Personally, I'm glad I learned on a single stage, as its so simple and you are involved in each step so you really get a feel for it.

I'd probably start with a Lee single stage if I had it to do over, just like I did the first time. As so many have pointed out, you'll always have use for that single stage when/if you move to a faster press, so you didn't waste your initial money. Plus, you got into it cheap just in case you don't like it and don't stick with it, you don't have $600 of crap sitting around the house collecting dust. Once you get used to reloading in and of itself, then get used to the machinery.

I ran a poll awhile back, and the majority of users here said their primary press was still a single stage.

[Blackwater]

Carniflex, as has been said above, you can get a lot of opinions in answer to your question. However, I'm gonna' give you the Truth! Har!

For once in my life, I did it "right" when I started reloading. First, I started with a little Lee Loader - the kind you use a plastic hammer to load with - and a powder scale. As soon as I used that enough to UNDERSTAND the loading process, I saved my egg money and got a RCBS Reloader Special single stage press and kit. I still use it to this day, and I've had 6 or 8 presses through the years, including at least three Rockchuckers (with their compound leverage), and a turret Lyman press. I couldn't have done better, as may be evidenced by the fact that I still use that old Reloader Special, and sold all those Rockchuckers, and similar presses. I still have the old Lyman T-type press, and I'll set it up to load either .45/70's with black powder (which I only partially size cases for), or maybe the .44 mag. It's a sentimental favorite because it belonged to an old man who was my and my best buddy's tutor way back when. Good for some things, but not the strongest, what with that rotating head and all.

For a man just starting out, I'd DEFINITELY recommend a single stage press ONLY until you're REALLY familiar with the process, so much so that you could do it in your sleep. Reloading will eventually become something you'll depend heavily on habit for, for your own safety, and THIS is the part that's MUCH better served with a single stage press. With each stroke, you'll develop HABITS that SHOULD serve you well, and I'm VERY serious about this. Speaking as a man who's blown up a Ruger Super Blackhawk, I KNOW how valuable 100% reliable HABITS can be! When you've loaded a few thousand rounds, I'll tell you about blowing up the gun.
You won't be able to appreciate the story yet. If you can, just take my word for it.
Yeah, I know. Hard to do, ain't it? THAT is a BIG part of how I blew up that .44, so I completely understand. When I blew that .44, I'd probably reloaded a few hundred thousand rounds, probably half of them .45 ACP. Like I said, I'll tell you the story when you can understand it better.

For now, you need to know WHY a single stage press is best, notwithstanding its slower speed. Speed is fine, BUT .......... it encourages human error. Though the machine does what you set it up to do, it's the MENTAL error that can hurt you, and NOBODY is immune, and reloading is something that's so common now that newbies can get AWFULLY complacent AWFULLY fast. It's serious business, and merits being treated as such, lest you be not as "lucky" as I was not to be hurt.
The WHY of the single stage press is simple: it makes you pay attention better than a progressive press, and that IS important when you're learning. The simple and very elemental mental attitude you have when you're reloading is the thing that you need to develop, and nothing can or will do this as surely or as well as using a single stage press. The single stage makes you focus on EVERY operation individually, thereby instilling that mental ATTITUDE and demeanor that will serve you for the rest of your life when reloading. I think that's really important. After all, I learned the HARD way JUST how important it can be.

Other than that, first thing I'd do is buy several reloading manuals. I never use just one to go by. They vary, and that's one thing you really NEED to learn to accept when you're first starting out. It can both keep you out of trouble AND allow you to know when to load the "hotter" listed loads without any problems. READ those manuals. I think they all have pretty darn good descriptions of the loading process, which is pretty simple, but you've got to understand WHY you do things in a certain order, and in a certain way, to achieve the results you want. Things like when to crimp and when you probably shouldn't. If you do crimp, how much to crimp, and what each stage of "light" to "heavy" crimps SHOULD look like.
You'll learn about the differences between extruded and ball powders, and that some ball powders tend to take BIG leaps in pressure with only small increments in charge weight. You'll learn when to use hotter or milder primers, and good candidates for each to try. You'll learn how to load "straight" ammo, with little runout, and why that's important. You'll learn that SOME 150 gr. .30 cal. bullets produce higher pressures with otherwise identical loads, and some less pressure, and what effect the ogive, distance of the full diamater shank, etc. have on pressures and on accuracy as well. In short, there's a LOT you really need to learn before you start loading, in order to be sure of staying out of trouble, and the best place to start is the manuals. Like I said, each will have its own nuance of differing opinions and differing approaches to whatever differing goals you or the manuals want to reach. It'll appear confusing at first, likely, but from that brief period of "confusion" will come knowledge that will serve you the rest of your life.
It's the best "investment" of your time you can possibly make.

Surprisingly, though it'll seem interminable as you're going through that reading part, it'll actually pass quickly. That's when you get your single stage press. What your goal needs to be is reloading really GOOD loads that are ACCURATE. You can actually load pretty good supplies of ammo on a single stage press, once you get the hang of it, and it very well MAY be better to have LESS ammo, too, believe it or not! After all, lives there a soul so dead that they don't manage to shoot up ALL the ammon on hand, whatever that amount be???? Of COURSE we do! That CAN be a problem! More is learned from AIMED shots than simply pressing the trigger often and quickly in order to get that surge of adrenaline we all feel when we've got "ammo to burn." Now I'm not saying you can't DO that, or that you SHOULDN'T do it SOMETIMES. It's good to know the limits of your firearm, and that's part of what many can do for you. BUT .......... it ain't the way to become a Rifleman! That comes from GOOD ammo that's loaded straight, with minimal runout, and that's "balanced" for the rifle, barrel length, and other factors.

THIS is what you're REALLY after, after all, isn't it???? Just being able to load ammo is one thing, but really knowing how to load GOOD ammo, and to do it consistently and reliably and at least relatively quickly, is quite another. I know loaders who fall into both categories, and quite a few points in between. One buddy of mine shoots benchrest, and a group that goes into the "two's" (.200" ctc)
is a CATASTROPHE! Another just wants his ammo to go "bang" when he pulls the trigger. Neither is exactly "wrong," of course, but those who know and understand benchrest technique, and the whys and wherefores of it, will easily outshoot the ones who just want to go "bang," and VERY quickly too. After all, the whole point is to actually HIT something, right?

Again, the single stage press is king here. You've more time to think each stage and each movement and each cartridge through, and you'll find yourself much sooner than you might think, "discovering" things for yourself, because you'll have the time and motivation to just SEE what it is you're doing better. It's the coming to UNDERSTAND reloading that will allow you to progress as a shooter. A single stage press will produce plenty of ammo to learn on, but it'll make you understand WHY things are done a certain way much more quickly. The PROCESS, after all, is governed by the MACHINE you choose, right? Sometimes slower CAN be better because it simply gives you more time to think and observe, and figure things out as you go, and you get more insight into the making of good ammo as you go.

Now here is where I'll spout what will probably be called "heresy" to many: I think the NON-compound leverage presses, like my Reloader Special, are SUPERIOR to the compound presses, like the Rockchucker, both from RCBS. The answer to this "heresy" is simple: The NON-compound leverage press gives the user MUCH more "feel" as he learns the process, particularly when sizing cases. Let me explain. Sizing bottleneck rifle cases requires more physical strength and pressure than ANY other operation you'll perform in the making of good rifle ammo. Everything else is rather easy, and THEN is when you really NEED more "feel," so you can get more "feedback" from your press. This can tell you where your variations are coming from, and will allow you to figure out how to minimize them. After all, you can't account for differnces you can't even feel, and thus won't know are there, can you? Of course not.

Now when it comes to resizing bottleneck rifle cases, the NON-compound leverage press ALSO comes into its own. I can't tell you how many reloaders I've seen who've started loading with a compound-leverage press, who don't REALLY know how to lube and resize a case properly. The REASON they don't know is because all that leverage ROBS them of the "feel" they need to be able to notice even GROSS differences in the pressure needed to resize a well lubed case, a poorly lubed case, and an overly lubed case. The overly lubed case will exhibit more headspace, and may have dented shoulders, and sooner or later, if you don't learn to lube cases well, you'll get a minimally lubed case stuck in your die. This happens a lot more than folks think, too. Dies are ruined by guys trying to get out stuck cases. MANY curses are loosed, but never seem to help.

A NON-compound leverage press WILL make you learn to lube cases RIGHT, and thereby, make you a better loader. It's the single biggest reason I keep using my Reloader Special, and sold those three Rockchuckers. The ammo I load on my Reloader Special is consistently more accurate than the stuff I loaded on ANY of those three Rockchuckers. Y'all who doubt me ........ try it some time. If you have ANY trouble sizing a case with a non-compound leverage press, it's because you never really learned how to consistently lube you cases properly.

When you seat the bullets, if you've chamferred and deburred the cases, and polished the neck openings with 0000 steel wool, seating bullets is SO easy you barely get any "feel" even with a non-compound leverage press.

Besides the press, get a good scale. Unless you're shooting BPCR's with their very heavy cast bullets, you'll need one with only about a 500 gr. capacity, and 300 gr. is perfectly useful for 99.9% of what you'll need a scale for, including weighing most ctg. cases. You can use a set of Lee Dippers, or get a powder measure. I vote for both. Use the measure when you're loading for volume, and the dippers and scale with a tea cup full of powder for your "precision" loads. It's surprising how quickly the Lee Dippers can be used to pour a perfectly weighed charge. If you're using ball powders, just use the measure. Any decent one will weigh ball powders out to + or - 0.1 gr., and that's PLENTY accurate enough.

Then you'll need a case trimmer. I've got a couple of the little table mounted "lathe type" trimmers, but I almost never use them. I mostly use the little Lee case trimmers with the Case Spinner kit that you chuck in a drill. Once you learn the movements, you can trim, chamfer and debur, and (most important to me) then put a swatch of 0000 steel wool over the case mouth and actually polish it smooth with just a bump or two of the elec. drill's trigger. When you do that, it's amazing how easily your bullets seat, and there is NEVER any - not ANY - shaving of the bullet jacket on any side by sharp edges created by the chamferring and deburring tool, which after all is a CUTTING tool, is it not? Perfectly seated, non-abraded-on-one-side bullets shoot better. I guarantee it.

Other than some case lube, some 0000 steel wool if you want to try my little "trick" polishing the case mouths, and some powder, cases, primers and bullets is all you need.

Those books are the real key, though. Focus at first on how they tell you to adjust your dies, particularly the sizing die. It DOES matter, and don't be afraid to let yourself learn.

The neates thing about reloading, is that you THEN know that whatever load shoots best in your rifle, you'll NEVER have to worry about not being able to find THAT load, which your rifle's sighted in for, at the local Wal Mart or not the night before the hunt. I can't believe how many guys have their rifles sighted in with a certain load, and who then forget until the night before the hunt to get ammo - and THEN can't find the right load! It DOES make a difference, usually!

You can also load mild "plinking" loads, that kids and the wife actually ENJOY shooting, you can load jacketed or cast, heavy or light, any sort of specialty load, "blasting ammo" or high precision stuff - the list is virtually endless. YOU can make YOUR ammo JUST THE WAY YOU WANT IT TO BE, and you can do it whenever you want, if you but keep a decent supply of components handy. Neat, aint' it?

Good luck, and don't ever be afraid to ask any questions you want to here. I've admitted blowing up a Super Blackhawk, and THAT is probably the WORST thing you'll EVER hear here! I only talk about it so that veterans can be reminded they're not necessarily ALWAYS perfect - at least it's not guaranteed - and so newbies can take the endeavor maybe just a bit more seriously, as is really appropriate.

Now go get at least 3 manuals - I'd suggest Hornady, Speer and Lyman, but Sierra and all the others are good, too. Lyman has some neat stuff that the others won't cover. Hornady has been, for me at least, the closes thing I've seen to a "nearly always very close to my rifle" book, and the Speer (or Sierra if you wish) has some good info that the others don't address, or maybe don't address as well. I suggest the Speer over the Sierra because, for a newbie, I think its front "How To and Why" section is a bit better, but you'll probably end up with those 4 plus a Nosler, an Acc. Arms, and several other manuals as well. I don't know how many I have, but I always "need" more, and enjoy them all.

You're going to find that reloading - when done RIGHT - will become just as intriguing and enjoyable as the shooting and hunting. I betcha'! :D

That's Blackwater's take on it, anyway, and it works, and those are some of the REASONS it works for me. Like Nike says, "Just do it."

[Carnifex]

Wow, thanks a ton for the book ;) and all the information!! I guess you sold me on the single stage press. I am planning on loading for precision and it sounds like the single stage press is the way to go. It looks like i'm going to go with the Lee anniversary reloading kit as the price is right and it comes with pretty much everything I need and the price is right. Thanks alot everyone for stearing me in the right direction. I'm shure i'll have more questions to come. Thanks again -Carnifex

[swill269]

B)

blackwater said it all, see what it is all about first (it's GREAT!)

;)

[knifeblade]

Originally posted by dvdstdg@Aug 20 2003, 12:25 PM
I believe you will find that all of the major mfgs have beginner kits. I use an RCBS Jr. that I have had for almost 30 years and it does the job. If you are going to reload 100's of rounds at a time a progressive press is the way to go but you are talking bucks and complexity. IMHO, RCBS dies are the best bang for the money although you will hear from Lee, Hornady, and others users that I am full of it. You will need a good scale, powder measure, powder dribbler, dial caliper, case trimming setup, primer pocket reamer/cleaner, neck brush, lube pad, lube, deburring/champhering tool. Hand primer seating tool is a nice extra if you are going to reload much at all but not enough to justify a progressive. If you are reloading for the mini only don't worry about neck turning or run out gauge - be like putting lipstick on a pig.
i qm not proud of the fact that i bought a dillion 550 reloader 2 years ago and my friend who was going to teach me how to load has died on me. i have started shotting 223 and have spent lots af money on it changing the barrel and completey redoing the mini-14, now before you go off half cocked and tell me i should have bought a m-16,ar or what eever i have to tell you i live in the state of calif. which is totaly screwed up. i wish someone would take all the g.d. actors and ship them to a island. i am glade there is someone who is starting off loading, i only wish my friend was around. i will read this topic and see what i can learn.

[PPosey]

Are there any older reloading manuals that are good to have or is the newest version possible always the best bet,?

I read this artical about reduced loads that refered to a Speer #10 manual, will the newer ones carry the same info?

http://www.woodsdrummer.com/reducedloads.html

thanks,

[swill269]

:o
i have the speer #10 manual if you need info.
:D

[PPosey]

Hello thanks for the reply!

I am looking into some reduced power loads for a 30-30,,,,for days when the deer and hogs are ?????????? and the tree rats are thick.

Do you know if a newer Speer has the same info say #11 0r #12? My reloading has been limited to loads that were givin to me by an experienced friend and I am looking to buy some manuals and play some on my own, looking at some on Ebay,

[dvdstdg]

I would go with a newer edition of the reloading guides. The powder mfgs change their recipies and the new powder might give you more or less energy either of which can be detrimental depending on the calibur and the powder. The inexpensive way to go is to pick up the mfgs pamphlets which are free at the dealers. The pamphlets will give you the most current data.

[swill269]

:o
i always though the recipe was for most smokeless powder was about the same. the burn rate was determined by the shape and size of the pellets, little round balls, flat waffers, round drums, pencil lead, etc.

i also thought the powder had to stay about consistent from lot to lot because of the dangers involved.
:rolleyes:

[dvdstdg]

Powders can vary significantly from lot to lot. Also, I believe that most powders are coated with chemicals that affect the burning rate, lube the powder to make it feed more uniformly, etc. If you compare older charge data with newer you can find significant differences so that tells me something in the power's makeup has changed to affect the load recommendations. For example, last Sunday I bought some AA2015 (Used to be AA2015BR) and before the dealer let me check out he compared the new Hornady Manual loads for this powder with the previous edition (the one I use) just to be sure the loads recommendations hadn't changed. Just my .02.

[PPosey]

nothing is easy is it,,,,,,

I'll check out some new manuals,,,,,,

[dvdstdg]

Originally posted by PPosey@Aug 30 2003, 10:01 PM
nothing is easy is it,,,,,,

I'll check out some new manuals,,,,,,
You can download the most current reloading guides from the powder mfgs' web sites and print them if you have Adobe Acrobat Reader (you can get AAR free from Adobe's web site). Just keep in mind that a 150gr bullet isn't a 150gr bullet as different bullet manufacturers make different shape bullets and that affects the bearing surface which affects the load data. But hey, think of all the money you are saving and the quality time you are getting in your basement, garage, spare bedroom, or where ever.

[Oldbob]

Blackwater...Very well done !!! I've reloaded for about 40 years and thats some of the best info I've seen for a beginner, maybe you should publish it ! Carnifex,one other thing that might be mentioned.........after you've got your feet on the ground and the reloading is working for you get your hands on one of the old Lyman cast bullet manuals and some casting equipment , if you enjoy reloading you'll probably enjoy making your own bullets too. Its a bit of a black art but theres enough info. in the manuals and sites like this to clarify it. Loading for lead bullets is challenging and fun.