David Wile
05-29-2003, 17:25
Hey folks,
I would like to describe a situation that is happening with my Garand, and then I would like to propose what I think the reason may be for what is occurring.
When I last fired my Garand a few months ago, I noticed the spent casings all had what looked a bit like a bunch of lube dents around the shoulder and just a quarter inch or so to the rear of the shoulder. No, they were not lube dents from reloading. The cartridges went into the Garand bright and shiney, and the bore and chamber of the Garand were absolutely clean before shooting. I thught the marks were due to powder residue in the chamber after firing, so I cleaned the chamber and the bore. After cleaning, I fire five more rounds of a different loading, and there were no more funny marks on these spent cases.
A few days ago, I fired two clips of ammo from the same Garand and started with a clean chamber and bore. The first clip was Korean surplus ammunition with a 150 grain bullet and an extruded IMR type powder. All of the first eight rounds came out with no funny dents. Then I fired eight rounds I had loaded with a 150 grain bullet and surplus 852 powder. The first empty came out with no marks. The last seven cases all came out with a whole bunch of the strange marks I described earlier.
Now, for my hypothesis: When I checked on the ammo I fired a few months ago and got the first funny marks, it turned out to be the same ammo I loaded with surplus 852 powder. I know from trying this powder in my lever action 45-70, there was a lot of apparently unburned powder or just plain residue that came out of the action when a fired case was ejected. With this in mind, I am wondering if the surplus 852 powder is not being burned fully in the Garand and allowing some to remain in the chamber. If that were the case, the next round would have marks imprinted on the case when that round was then fired.
Well, that's my idea of the situation, and I am wondering if anyone else has ever had anything similar occur? I have been reloading since the mid 1960s, and I do not remember anything like this before. I have also been using various surplus powders all those years quite satisfactorily, but I am beginning to think the 852 may be a bad choice for the Garand.
I posted this message on another forum, and a few folks said that using slower powders was bad for the M1 because of bending the op rod. Many years ago, however, we used to use surplus 4831 in our M1s without any problems. We used about 54 to 55 grains of 4831 which nearly filled the case, and the bullets would slightly compress the powder. These loads had no need for a crimp since the bullets would not move without a press and die. Based on this experience, I just do not buy the idea that slower powder cannot be used in the Garand. I do have plenty of 4895, but I would prefer to use a ball powder that meters better than extruded powder.
In any case, I have pulled the bullets on a whole bunch of loads with the 852 powder. I have also been using the 4895, but I would like to see if anyone else has any experience with a slower ball powder in the Garand.
Any thoughts or ideas?
Best wishes,
Dave Wile
I would like to describe a situation that is happening with my Garand, and then I would like to propose what I think the reason may be for what is occurring.
When I last fired my Garand a few months ago, I noticed the spent casings all had what looked a bit like a bunch of lube dents around the shoulder and just a quarter inch or so to the rear of the shoulder. No, they were not lube dents from reloading. The cartridges went into the Garand bright and shiney, and the bore and chamber of the Garand were absolutely clean before shooting. I thught the marks were due to powder residue in the chamber after firing, so I cleaned the chamber and the bore. After cleaning, I fire five more rounds of a different loading, and there were no more funny marks on these spent cases.
A few days ago, I fired two clips of ammo from the same Garand and started with a clean chamber and bore. The first clip was Korean surplus ammunition with a 150 grain bullet and an extruded IMR type powder. All of the first eight rounds came out with no funny dents. Then I fired eight rounds I had loaded with a 150 grain bullet and surplus 852 powder. The first empty came out with no marks. The last seven cases all came out with a whole bunch of the strange marks I described earlier.
Now, for my hypothesis: When I checked on the ammo I fired a few months ago and got the first funny marks, it turned out to be the same ammo I loaded with surplus 852 powder. I know from trying this powder in my lever action 45-70, there was a lot of apparently unburned powder or just plain residue that came out of the action when a fired case was ejected. With this in mind, I am wondering if the surplus 852 powder is not being burned fully in the Garand and allowing some to remain in the chamber. If that were the case, the next round would have marks imprinted on the case when that round was then fired.
Well, that's my idea of the situation, and I am wondering if anyone else has ever had anything similar occur? I have been reloading since the mid 1960s, and I do not remember anything like this before. I have also been using various surplus powders all those years quite satisfactorily, but I am beginning to think the 852 may be a bad choice for the Garand.
I posted this message on another forum, and a few folks said that using slower powders was bad for the M1 because of bending the op rod. Many years ago, however, we used to use surplus 4831 in our M1s without any problems. We used about 54 to 55 grains of 4831 which nearly filled the case, and the bullets would slightly compress the powder. These loads had no need for a crimp since the bullets would not move without a press and die. Based on this experience, I just do not buy the idea that slower powder cannot be used in the Garand. I do have plenty of 4895, but I would prefer to use a ball powder that meters better than extruded powder.
In any case, I have pulled the bullets on a whole bunch of loads with the 852 powder. I have also been using the 4895, but I would like to see if anyone else has any experience with a slower ball powder in the Garand.
Any thoughts or ideas?
Best wishes,
Dave Wile